Don't use bootcamp?!?

Well i went to the apple store today to ask some questions. I wanted them to show me exactly how bookcamp and/or parallels worked. They DIDNOT have a single computer in the store working with bootcamp or parallels. The girl even told me that you had to buy bootcamp lmao. Then she told me she did not recommend installing windows. I asked another employee in the store and they laughed when I asked them if they had windows installed. They told me they didnt want to slow down their computer.... not a single employee had windows installed. So is it really true that having windows installed will slow down your computer? I find this hard to believe....

 

I think the employee meant you would need to buy a copy of Windows to use boot camp. It is likely one of the reasons they don't install Windows on a Mac to try out along with the fact that they want people to try OS X. If they installed Parallels it would slow the system down by if the virtual machine was running at the same time. I wonder what would happen if you asked to see open office running on a Windows machine at the Microsoft store.

 

Having Windows installed with Bootcamp has no effect on your OSX performance. And Windows runs just fine in Bootcamp. I have W7 Pro installed via bootcamp on my i7 MBP and it runs great, although I don't use it very often. It makes a great Wintel notebook if you want to use it that way. And it has support for much of the Apple trackpad features (although not three or four finger swipes, and not inertial scrolling).

The only thing that is a downer about W7 in bootcamp is that battery life takes a huge hit. You can't shut off the GPU and I'd say I get less than half the battery life in Windows that I do in OS-X. And (as I'm sure you know) the only thing you need to buy is a license for Windows.

 

You believe this to be true on the 13" as well?

 

Sure.. how could it? What difference would the model make?

All boot camp does is partition your hard drive and provide a framework for Windows to install itself on the partition. It then gives you windows drivers for all the hardware in your machine. Once it's installed, it just sits there. When you boot into OS-X, the hard drive with Windows on it is never touched. The only difference your Mac sees in OS-X is a somewhat smaller hard drive.

I went with a 115 GB partition for Windows (overkill) so I still have around 380GB for my Mac HD. The amount of space you choose isn't that important - you will by default be able to read files from either hard drive in either OS although to write across partitions you will have to install something extra. I find this isn't required anyway. As long as you don't do something ridiculous like partition away 98% of your hard drive, there is no way OS-X performance could be affected.

I suspect Apple Store employees are just told to laugh at Windows whenever possible as a sales pitch.

 

Yea it really made me angry. They told me I would get viruses and just thought windows should never be ran.

 

Eh - they wouldn't care? Not sure what the relevance/point you're attempting to make is between showing/demoing an application running on an OS versus running an OS on a machine?

The OP went to the store to ask for a demo of a viable / supported option (bootcamp) - and yet he/she received nothing but the typical anti-Microsoft rhetoric instead.

Somewhat the same response he's getting here too..

 

I was as the Southlake (TX) Apple store a few weeks ago picking up a MBP for my daughter. Just for grins, I asked the "genius" how well Windows 7 would run on it under Bootcamp. His exact reply, "Why would you want to run Windows? It's a virus petri dish and runs slow even on Windows hardware." I then asked him had he actually tried Windows 7 and he replied, "Luckily, I've never had to run Windows in my life."'

I expect I'd get similar responses from many other of the Apple employees. I'm not a Windows or Apple fanboi but as a consumer I find such FUD offensive. If I wanted to hear that kind of bull****, I'd buy my Apple hardware at Best Buy or Frys. (At least Frys discounts.)

But back to the topic at hand: Windows runs fine under Bootcamp with only a few possible glitches. The single biggest drawback is Apple's lack of support for Windows' power management capabilities. And this will probably never change. Apple will see to that.

 

yes! I dont see why they needed to be so aniti-microsoft. Like I was in the store to buy a mac...so you dont have to keep bashing microsoft???

 

Well, Unless you say you are there to buy a Mac, they don't know what you are there for, most people go into Apple stores just to play with Macs/computers and never buy anything. Every time I got into a Apple store it's full of people that I know won't be buying a Mac and are there just to play with them or go on facebook.

Either way, I think they should still have a bootcamp Mac running, but I think the last time I went into a Apple store they did have Windows up in bootcamp. It's probably more up to the store manager.

 

You have to look beyond the surface part of it. Think about it, if you created a product with software to support it, however to entice a few more customers, you allowed your product to "run" software from competitors you would still want to push your software above and beyond others.
Apple wants OS X to be mainstream, there's nothing wrong with that. Do you have any idea how many customers walk into the Apple store looking at Macs and probably the first thing comes out of the customer's mouth is something about running Windows? I'm not dismissing your experience but I frequent my local Apple stores (and I live near 5 stores) and I hear customers asking about running Windows and I've never heard anything but professional responses from the Apple employees. They've even recommended using Bootcamp, although they don't support Windows.

In regards to your OP, let's turn it around and go to the Microsoft store, Microsoft makes Office for Mac, I'm not certain that they sell the boxed copies at their store but I can bet they would never have one Mac at their store to display Office for Mac and if a customer asks about it, I can bet they will dismiss it (being Anti-Apple) and push Office for Windows to get you more interested in Windows 7 and forget about Mac OS X.

 

soo since he apple associate couldnt help me...what is involved in running windows in bootcamp once I have windows installed...is it going to ask me if i want to run windows or osx every time i start up my computer?

 

You have that choice. You can either set it up to boot into OS X by default or Windows by default, this can be easily done in System Preferences under OS X or the Control Panel in Windows. Whichever you choose, upon boot, if you want to run the "non-default" OS then you can simply hold down the Option key and the choices will appear on screen to either boot into Windows or Mac OS X or whichever startup disk you prefer.

 

Wow - That's a rather large/stilted assumption.. considering Microsoft is in the software business to, dare I say it - sell their software whether it be for a Mac or PC, - whereas Apple obviously seeks to control both sides of the fence (hardware and software).

The OP, as I'm sure many other customers out there looking at Apple hardware do for the first time as well, is simply asking a rather obvious question to be shown a product that Apple itself advertises on it's on website that it can run both OS X or Windows - and actually most Apple fans make a rather large point that it's the ONLY product to do so, and gets nothing but FUD from the Apple employees asking a valid, pertinent question about the hardware and it's capabilities.

As a consumer making a rather large purchase decision (upwards of $800+ depending on what you're purchasing) - IMHO - it'd bring into question whether or not Apple actively supports what it so willingly advertises.

 

From the looks of your signature and your undying need to defend Microsoft I'm not at all surprised by your response to my post. BTW, rather than showing your ignorance, you should take a good look at Office for Mac against Office for Windows and come back again and try and tell us if Microsoft is trying to "SELL" their software or not? Sure, they are trying to sell the Windows experience by making a horrible Mac version and an incredibly great version on Windows.

 

If you read my entire comment you will see that I gave an explanation. Windows and Parallels are not included with a Mac so they would be showing off proprietary software. Windows is a product that competes with Apple's operating system. In a way it is much like asking Microsoft to show and explain how an alterative to its Office product works on a PC. I'm sure that if you could talk a Microsoft store employee into showing you open office, he would give you an unbiased opinion. I can see it now "open office is a free alliterative to Microsoft's Office system. You can save yourself hundreds of dollars by using open office".

 

Ugh - FYI - Not that I should have to explain myself, but I own quite a wide array of Apple products too, and I actually utilize a wide range of competing products across a wide variety of technologies (everything from mainframe to servers to PCs to Macs, Sun, Unix, Linux - you name it - I've used it), and I don't need to defend Microsoft - they do quite well on their own considering the size of their market share.

I choose to use what I do based on how these technologies meet my needs - not based on an "undying" loyalty to a product or suite of products because it's "cool" or the latest thing you "gotta have" ...

Regarding ignorance - last I checked - Sales drive technology and future advancements/updates of software. Wow - I must be totally ignorant to assume that Microsoft (or any other software company for that matter) would divert more of their efforts towards continued development for of a product targeting a 85-90%+ market share versus a 5-10% market share...

What's truly ignorant is your response is how you defend the reported actions, by the OP, of Apple employees actively bashing a technology that they supposedly "support" via their own product/software/advertised web site - yet you provide a weak excuse for why the employees did what they did and posted further unfounded FUD commentary regarding a made up, fairy tale, situation at a Microsoft store to view/demo Office for Mac because they'd be "Anti-Apple" ... ????

The word "bliss" comes to mind ....

 

I did read your whole post. You skirted the issue at hand (OP's comments that he/she was basically given inaccurate, invalid information, and laughed at for querying about wanting to view a demo and how to use a product (bootcamp) that Apple offers) by ultimately deflecting and providing an irrelevant alternative scenario/situation regarding Microsoft and Open Office.

This magically applies to the OP's issue how? Because you "know" for a fact that if you walked into a Microsoft store - you'd get the same level of service, if you can call it that?

Really, I'd like to know - did what you post actually happen? or is it just further FUD in addition to what has already been perpetrated by the Apple employees as noted by the OP?

Just because you're "sure" something will happen doesn't necessarily make it true - last I checked - that's the definition of an assumption... and we all know what happens when you assume...

 

Actually I did address the OP's issue at hand.

 

Meh - another deflection ... whatever. BTW, nice degradation to labeling someone as a troll instead of actually owning up to what you posted.

Funny how that word automatically appears when one is asked to provide factual information supporting their posts...

 

Funny how the trolls automatically ignore the factual information presented to them when it directly contradicts the point they're blindly defending.

Factual information was provided. If you can't see it, then perhaps you have more serious issues to deal with.

 

Ok - I'll play your game - what part exactly, of the above quotes is "factual"? What relevance does either comment have with regards to bootcamp? What relevance to the OP's topic do the above comments have?

Yes - I'd agree - in part, Jervis961 / HLDan provided valid/factual reasons in their responses with regards to what bootcamp was and why, potentially (i.e. licensing, parallels (although parallels wasn't even part of the OP's question/comment)), it wasn't being demoed at the Apple store. That's where their responses SHOULD have ENDED (ala JohnSavage's and Seshan's posts).

My entire point is - why continue to propagate additional FUD by inserting the comments above?

And - when I asked Jervis961 if what he commented was, in fact, a true representation of something that happened to him - he (disappointingly so) labels me as a "troll"... ????????

If I'm a "troll" (yours and Jervis961's words - not mine) for pointing out to someone that they shouldn't post assumptions and continue to spread FUD about products in the market - so be it.

 

You really need to read more than just what you want to see.

I also enjoyed how you only quote part of my comment while calling the entire post irrelevant. Here's the entire comment.

My comments that you claim are FUD do not claim to be factual experiences. FUD uses claims of actual experiences or facts to cause fear uncertainty and doubt in something. My comments do not do that. My comment were trying to explain that it would be silly to expect a company to demo a competing product. The MS store example was a hypothetical to emphasize that point, not spread FUD about MS.

FUD would be close to accurate to describe this comment.

I don't think it quite matches the definition of FUD but it is much closer than any example you've given. If this one isn't good enough I could go into your post history and find plenty.

If you would like to respond I would appreciate it if you would take the time to read and understand what you are talking about first.

 

Funny - I'm pretty sure I've read every word..

This'll be my last post on this matter - as I'm sure others are bored and it's become pointless and nitpicky - we could do this all day - but if you'll actually go back and "read" my post above - you'll note that I stated that you and HLDan did, in fact, answer / respond with some relevant and factual information regarding bootcamp and parallels..

Then your comments digressed into a sarcastic diatribe (depending on how you read it) of what Microsoft "would" do in an alternate scenario - why?

I simply quoted the part of your comment (people, including yourself, do it all the time on these forums) that I was referring to that was irrelevant to the conversation at hand - and surprise - the comment is still irrelevant (unless you can come up with a valid reason that Office for Mac or Open Office somehow is truly relevant to actually running a version of Windows via bootcamp?).

Again - maybe you're missing it - my point here is there is no relevance here at all with regards to "demoing a competing product". There's absolutely no point to even refer to "what Microsoft would/could/possibly do" in this situation as it doesn't apply.

Apple opened that door by offering bootcamp - the OP simply went to the store seeking more information about this product. I'd like to know how it's "silly" for a company to be asked to demo a product that it actively advertises / sells?

 

That's the part you're confused on though. Apple doesn't advertise or sell Windows. They advertise/sell the ABILITY to install Windows, but not Windows itself.

 

Be that as it may, they should demo it.

I personally haven't thought of installing windows on my Mac, but when I was in the market for a MBP ... I wanted to see "every" feature I was interested in, in action.

I had to see how it worked, how it ran, if it was what I was looking for. For some people, they are interested in Bootcamp (not sure why, Parallels is a much more convenient solution) and they should be given the opportunity to see it in action.

 

If you had read every word of the OP's original post (and the others here) why did you claim he didn't mention Parallels?

You claim others are being too nit picky while you continue to ask questions that were already answered? While Apple supplies a means to install Windows via Boot Camp, Apple does not sell "Windows" or offer support for Windows. While showing Windows running on a system may be helpful, its not cost effective and distracts customers from Apple's operating system.

Microsoft also supplies a means to install programs on it's Operating System. Following the same rules you are trying to impose on Apple, a customer should expect to see open office running on Windows computers in the Microsoft store. While open office is free to download, Microsoft would need to train it's employees on how to use it. Open office would also be a distraction away from Microsoft's office software that it is trying to sell. Who knows maybe Microsoft would do it but it doesn't make sense business wise.

Sure I could have used after market parts on a car or some other comparison but it wouldn't make as much sense. While you may not agree with the analogy it makes sense. Would you be happier if I compared it to asking to see Linux on a PC instead?

 

Agreed - mea culpa.

Point taken - yes - Apple doesn't "sell" Windows - but it does support the option to "install" or "run" Windows - to wit, this was the OP's reason for a request for a demo in the Apple store.

Ah - but there's a difference there isn't there? The OP wanted to see a demo of software developed/supplied/supported/advertised by Apple running on their hardware - which is the only viable configuration to actively view/see the product in action.

Second, last I checked, Open Office isn't a Microsoft product - is it? I fully understand (and concur with) your point that it wouldn't be of benefit to Microsoft to "demo" Open Office as it's a competing product. However my point is that it doesn't apply here due to the primary difference that, as stated above, Apple opened that door in offering a very specific configuration to support an alternative OS on their platform.

As a consumer, you'd expect Apple's employees to be professional in their handling of the OP's request, instead of being treated poorly and given weak excuses as to why the OP shouldn't run Windows instead...

 

How do you know the employee wasn't professional in their handling of the request? We only hear the OP's side of things and you're taking that as fact.

Guess you were wrong.

 

Thread closed, we are not getting anywhere.