"Fuzzy" text, MBP 15" hi-res AG....

Just picked up my new 15" MBP with a high-res anti-glare screen and am getting familiarized with Mac OS X....(first time Mac user) - what a sweet machine!

One thing that has got me perplexed is what I perceive to be fuzzy text; doesn't matter which application I'm using, the text looks blurry, almost like someone took some fine-grit sandpaper and fuzzed up the font.

I've tried playing with font size, enabling and disabling font smoothing in General Preferences, changing text colour in Firefox, and while some changes help a bit, the root problem is always there.

I'm kinda stressed that this may be a function of the AG coating, perhaps somehow affecting contrast, I never had a chance to try the glossy in the hi-res before ordering, is that the difference? The thing that gets me is that images are crystal sharp and spectacular - it's really just text!

I've previously used everything from 1074x768 12" to 1950x1200 15" and never had anything like this happen. It's bad enough that my eyes get tired quickly and it's starting to give me a head-ache. I noticed something intangible when I tried it in the store, but I chalked it up to my eyes being tired and the crazy bright lighting in the store....

Now that I'm actually using it for a bit at home and my wallet is many dollars lighter I'm starting to panic....I pimped out the machine with big SSD, maxed out the RAM, etc, and really, really like everything else, but this is a real problem as I spend hours in front of the computer at a time....

Anybody else have this experience? Anybody compared the glossy and the AG in the high-res for text readability? Is there a ClearType like text tuning utility for Mac like for Windows?

Thanks in advance!

 

It's possible your just adjusting to the font rendering in OS X. If you're coming from windows, the font rendering in windows is sharper, where the font rendering in OS X is smoother.

A simple way to verify that it isn't a problem with the screen would be to install windows and see whether the appearance of the text is as you expect. I'm not sure how to change the font rendering system in OS X, but this is what I would do to start.

 

So I did some more digging on this topic, and it turns our to be a very interesting topic.

First, many thanks MaestroChef, while poking around the world wide weeb last night I came to the same info you presented in your response:

From what I've been able to gather, it looks like my issue is not a screen or vision issue, but rather may be due to the fact that microsoft and apple have two fundamentally different approaches to the way that they render fonts. I've been a lifelong windows user and I was completely naive that such a difference even existed, but apparently it has a documented history. Since no-one brought it up, I'd thought I'd try and summarize my findings.

After sifting through a bunch of articles and blog posts, I've found a few references that eloquently explain the situation better than I ever could. If this interests you, I'd encourage you to click on the links for more information on the topic, the articles have some really interesting info:

from: Font rendering philosophies of Windows & Mac OS X DamienG

The topic is further covered in:

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/06/12.html:

and

Coding Horror: What's Wrong With Apple's Font Rendering?

The above is noteworthy for the mass of comments generated, many of which describe exactly what I'm feeling, and some of which have great info:

and:

A response to the above article found in mezzoblue A Subpixel Safari

Interesting points re: DPI and display resolutions given all the retina hype of late for refreshes...doesn't help my aching head much right now, but thought I'd offer up a selection of my finds....

The writer in ATPM 12.01 - Paradigm: Coping With Mac OS X’s Font Rendering quotes a letter describing my situation exactly, albeit from a OS 9 to OS X perspective while mine is Windows->OS X:

and himself replies:

Before this post gets any longer, I'll leave people with this excellent article (it's outdated in regards to version of OS X, but has lots of great reference info for people like myself who had never considered the issue...):

Daring Fireball: Panther Text Rendering

 

Although I really love using OSX I also have windows loaded and the diffrence in reading almost anything is staggering to me , going back and forth between the two is almost like I have two laptops, that has always made me unhappy.

Plus rep for your efforts

 

What's even more interesting is the degree of individual subjectivity on the preference. Many comments in the above referenced articles are highly impassioned on the subject; typically people like one or the other, and consider the other sacrilege. What is interesting is that people that complain about the windows rendering typically do so from a graphic design/reproductive quality "it's-not-true-typeface" stance, e.g., the text is "too thin", "not scaled right", etc. You don't hear them complaining that it hurts their eyes, just their sensibilities. On the other hand, for the people having difficulties with OS X, their grief seems very physical, complaining of eye strain, blurred vision, headaches, increased strain after longer sessions, symptoms that are very real to me in the short period I've been using the MBP and OS X.

I think individual eyesight and the way different people's brains process things may have something to do with it.

I've always had excellent eyesight, and last had my vision checked a year ago for a commercial drivers license renewal. I was going on 4 hrs sleep a night for the week prior, and had 20/20 one eye, 18/20 the other for an overall of 20/20. HOWEVER, I've had a few crazy long stints in front of a screen for work projects since then, and will get it checked out again soon. Although I don't think the measurable quality (i.e. x/20) of my eyesight is the issue here, I think eyesight can be a factor here.

This seems to sum up a very plausible reason why some people are bothered by this ( ATPM 12.01 - Paradigm: Coping With Mac OS X’s Font Rendering)

another theory, same article (or rationale for the above theory):

The first Ron Redstone quote above sums up what I'm feeing perfectly. I really hope that I can adjust to this, because I really, really like everything else about the machine, but right now I'm starting to wonder if I'm one of the few that is affected enough to find this issue terminal - I wish someone would peel my eyeballs out with a red-hot poker and stuff icecubes into the sockets right now.

 

Yes, you're completely right. Mac OS X balances text rendering towards accurate display of the typeface. Windows balances text rendering towards fitting a pixel grid. Worst case, go back to windows. You can still use your laptop.

Also, the issue may become marginalized if apple picks up retina displays on their laptops, but that will only benefit new purchasers, and it might be a while. Conceptually, if the pixels are small enough so that you can't differentiate them, it would be better to model the typeface accurately and not worry about the pixel grid fit. Seems to work for iOS quite well.

And, having used both for several years, neither bothers me, but I did have a ??? moment when I noticed the text was different on both operating systems. You can try Linux, too. Text is rendered differently there as well, at least on Ubuntu / Debian.

 

If the end goal of your workflow is to produce a high quality printed product, then of course Apple's approach is better. But for the other 99% of people, there is no right answer.

I personally prefer Microsoft's ClearType rendering for font sizes in the 8-12pt range at normal screen DPI, which is presumably what they optimized for. But I prefer Apple's rendering for larger sizes because it preserves the correct weight and for small serif fonts. But regardless of which you use, it is something that you get used to.

 

The thing that's bothering me about this, though, is that the new font Windows 8 relies on is Segoe UI Light/Segoe UI. Let me say, I LOVE this font. It's clean, modern and airy. It works well as a UI font... but not under Windows currently.

Segoe UI Light looks like a steaming pile on anything less that 200PPI, and that is about 99% of current PC's. This font looks presentable on OSX as a system font because of the way OSX renders it.

So there are exceptions and advantages to each, but I think as technology progresses Apple's TrueType will be the better rendering tech.

 

Windows 8 is a steaming pile, so I wouldn't worry about that too much HAL. As for the original "problem"; I noticed the same thing when I bought my first Apple laptop and you get used to it quickly. If anything my eyes are less stressed reading that screen than my lower resolution Dell E4300's screen.

 

While my laptop was supposed to come with windows installed, the tech never got around to installing it, so I finally got to an Apple store just before they closed to see if they had windows running on a machine. While not apples to apples (damn I'm funny at 3 in the morning...) they had XP going as a VM on a desktop with a 21" monitor....presto, problem solved, my eyes were all: "yes, yes, sweet jesus of relief..."

I also checked a 15" MBP with the glossy screen (not hi-res) and while a little bit better, the issue was still there....rule out AG.

Soooooo....now I have to decide what to do. I'm leaning towards keeping the MBP, seeing if my eyes adjust, and then, if they don't, resign myself to having a very expensive windows machine (due to the hoops I had to jump through with procurement to get the thing, I'm not even sure if I'd be able to return it, and frankly, I spent so long trying to find "the right" laptop, I'm not sure what else I would get (the Sony SE was the number #2 choice).

So, I've got some questions re: Windows use but I'm not sure whether it's best to ask them here, the sticky thread on Windows use (not much recent action there..), or the current thread on GPU and windows....

I'll be safe and post in the Windows sticky thread ( http://forum.notebookreview.com/app...els-desktop-vmware-fusion-89.html#post8501505, but does anybody such as Masterchef have any suggestions on bootcamp vs. VM, XP vs 7, etc? I'll continue in the other thread.....

 

Just read the sticky and use what works best for you. None of the solutions are perfect.

I would recommend trying these things in order:

1. tinker with the font smoothing

TinkerTool for Mac OS X Lion is a Must Have for Customizing 10.7

tonymacx86 Blog: Improve Font Smoothing in Mac OS X [QuickTip]

2. try to adjust to the font rendering in OS X

- your eyes and your brain should be able to adapt
- hopefully, you being bothered by OS X text rendering is largely just because the text rendering is quite different than what you are used to.
- i suspect you will adapt, and the text will start looking natural and it won't bother you anymore after some exposure

3. return if possible

If I wasn't using OS X, I would rather have a windows computer. I do have to use windows somewhat frequently (and I have a windows computer for those times).

4. try to get by with bootcamp/vmware/parallels

If you go this route, use windows 7, period. Do not use XP. That is not a legitimate choice.

 

You sir, are a GOD! Just tried the second suggestion and it's definitely better!

Not sure if better enough, my eyes are fried so I'm going to catch some zzz's but will play with it again tomorrow.

THANK YOU!!

ps I'm kind of leaning towards a bootcamp partition and then being able to boot windows or use it as a VM, do you know if that works well? Do VM Fusion or Parallels both work for this? Also, where would I install my windows apps so that they would be accesible to windows both under bootcamp and VM, or would I have to install two sets, one on each side of the partition? Or would it just be best to keep everything VM?

 

I would highly recommend not going for that strategy. It's just not practical. I think you should seriously consider figuring out how to return the macbook pro and find some similar hardware, possibly from sony, and run windows, with good drivers, and no virtual machine.

 

No. If he bought the MBP for the build quality AT ALL, Sony is not the brand to go to right now... unless he wants to spend several thousand on a Z. Their other models... the quality just isn't there anymore.

I'd say get a business notebook. High-end Latitude or EliteBook, maybe, if you're going to return the MBP.

 

sony was just a shot in the dark. go for whatever brand is good that offers mainstream support for windows. i wouldn't know which model to pick.

 

This problem shifts massively into apples favor with retina devices. That way small fonts are easy to read, but they do not look ugly/blocky when big.