Games on a Mac.

there's actually a forum called ihatedell.net for those who really hate dell and dell seems pretty awful according to some of the posts...

fenderboy, are you be able to get a temperature reading after you overclocked your GPU "moderately"?

 

Hey, I really don't have a problem with Dell and the way they operate...My family owns a Dell Dimension 9150 desktop and a dell 9300, and I just got my boss an inspiron 6400. Its just about what you're looking for though; when we got our desktop it was a good value PC, and both laptops were pimped out spec wise for a great price. We've hardly had problems with the Dells apart from standard bloatware (which most PC's come with), a DVD burner that kept throwing out coasters (which we replaced ourselves for $70) on the 9150 and a dodgy screen in the 9300 (which they eventually replaced under warranty after a lot of hassle...), but for what we payed that's what I expected. It's great having Dell around to push prices so low and keep the computer market competitive, but after owning 7 Apples, I try and avoid PC's in general if I can...just can't get enough of Apple...haha.

easyeye, I haven't really bothered checking the temperatures, but I'd say the GPU is hovering around 65-70°C during NFS Most Wanted. I'm fine playing games with the computer on my lap, but it does get pretty toasty, like any powerful, thin laptop during gaming. The fans kick up a notch when the GPU hits 70°C I believe, and that isn't all that often, and when it does happen the fan is only blowing harder for about 30 seconds. Thing is, that doesn't really bother me cause they are rated up to about 100°C. Check out the other forums about clock settings, as well as the forums on www.onmac.net for GPU settings and results.

 

Well according to Apples silent update to their technical specifications it used to be 100 C but somehow it got lowered to 95 C which seems a bit strange but in Celeius 5 degree is a huge difference.

Wonder why they did it.

Also we don't mean to directly target Dell, we just use it as an example because of how popular it is among consumers, there wasn't really any Dell hate remarks in this thread, mostly opinions of people saying they prefer Apple over Dell.

But hey I'll check out that dell hate site

 

thanks, I'm planning to get MBP in fall and hopefully play some game on it.

 

I think we have beaten the Dell vs Apple stuff to death so let's leave it be and try to keep this thread more on target, which is gaming on a Mac.

For easyeye, keep in mind that the only x1600 that is NOT underclocked is the Acer 8204's. All others are underclocked to varying degrees, with the MBP's being the most severe. The reason for this is twofold. One, Apple's are not designed for gaming. Also, Apple uses a passive cooling system which keeps the system quieter but requires a little more creativity to keep the heat down. Also understand that the x1600 in general is not a high end card by any stretch. The highest benchmarks are in the low to mid 4000's on 3dMark05.

In the end, it will game just fine, just without all the eye candy. As for the MacBook, the Intel GMA950 is not a gaming card and cannot be expected to play any modern games well.

 

i actually visited the ihatedell.net site out of curiousity and skimmed through most of the psots on the front page. some of their reasons for hating dell are REALLY ridicious,

my neighbor brought a dirt cheap computer with 256ram running window xp so its dell's fault because windows would lag.

i brought a dell to play games, but then i found out that once i got my desktop with a INTERGRATED video card. i couldnt play the latest (if any) games so dell sucks.

i could of built the system at half the cost! dell sucks!

some of the posters seem to have legitimate reasons for disliking dell, but a lot of them all just seem like complete... computer noobs. plus they did not bother to do research, or ask a friend to help them with a new computer. i mean should i really complain if i brought a $1000 car and expect it to last for the next 20 years with no maintence, gas, etc. is it really dell's fault when the brand new (bloatware) computer gets even more bogged down because the user doesn't know how to protect themselves from spywares or viruses?


i just stopped reading pretty quickly because i started seeing people with 900 posts basically spamming every topic with anti-dell fanboi like messages like "Welcome to the club!" or "tell everyone you know not to get a dell!" etc. at least in this forum, we can discuss and talk abou things in a normal manner instead of threadcrapping every thread.

 

Many of the threads under the Apple portion of this forum go off topic, but it usually ends up back on the issue anyways.

I think the general consenus is that Macs are not designed for gaming, and if you're hoping to do hardcore gaming, look elsewhere. However if you do some light-moderate gaming the MBP might be worth looking at. The Macbook is very light gaming thats restricted to older titles.

 

*sigh* what happened to this thread...

For one thing Dell doesn't suck. You get what you pay for and since owning this e1505 I must say it was a good buy for the price and I know it will last a few years.

Helloooo... www.appledefects.com

Neways...as said before, if you plan to overclock the MBP be careful of the heat it will put out. If you really must have a MBP get the 17" for the added dedicated gpu memory.

But if I were getting a 17" to do some real gaming I would defintetly look at the Sager NP5760. go7900 GTX anyone?

 

Actually, speaking of gaming on a Mac, my friend (the one with the PowerBoolk G4) had a few games on there. I think he had like Jedi academy, and it looked pretty good, and those old PowerBooks only had MR9550s if I remember correctly. The fact is that the MBP can actually game as well or better than a lot of other notebooks that you can buy with the same form factor. But the MBP also comes in a 15.4" with the 256 x1600, but that's gotta create a lot of heat. I hope Apple releases a new line of notebooks with some nVidia solutions someday. That would be nice.

 

nVidia for their notebook line might be possible, the thing is that no one is sure how everything s gonna go down now because of the fact that AMD now owns ATI. Hopefully they leave ATI to just do their jobs and not butt in or something or it can cause a bit of trouble.

However, I can imagine that AMD might say something to apple such as a better deal on their ATI products if they go for AMD as well, but anyways I prefer ATI over nVidia anyways, I think the quality of the images it produces is better.

 

In the UK we get 15% off (the 15% is a permanent saving) and £100 off an Ipod at the moment, a very significant saving. Dell on the other hand other no such deals in the UK, no matter who you are and if they do I haven't found any. Dell's base prices in the UK seem quite inflated compared to the US site as well.

 

dell doesn't have the epp discount in the United Kingdom?

 

I'm sure it's been asked before but I'm buying this computer really soon. How will a MBP with the specs below handle games like Counterstrike 1.6 and Source? I might also try out anarchy-online...would it void my warrenty to add a gig of ram? Or should I just wait on the G1 to come out lol.....

2.0 GHz Intel Core Duo Processor
1GB (PC2-5300) 667MHZ DDR SDRAM
80 GB SATA Hard Drive
SuperDrive (DVD and CD burner)
15" Widescreen Display(1440X900 native)
128MB ATI Radeon X1600 video card for gaming
Airport Extreme for wireless networking
Firewire 400 port, USB2
Bluetooth
Audio In/out
Sudden Motion Sensor
Ambient Light Sensor
Backlit Keyboard
85W MagSafe Power Adapter
Battery (upto 4.5 Hrs)
Infra-Red Apple Remote


Comes with:

OS X.4.8 (latest version) of Tiger is included.
iLife 06 (iMovie, iPhoto, iWeb, iDVD)
iWork 06


I will be including the following:

DVI to VGA adapter
Power Adapter
Extension power cord
All original manuals and cds
Original box and padding
Infra-Red Remote

 

Well compared to the G1.... no comparison. First there is the 128mb underclocked GPU vs the G1's 512mb go7700 GPU. The Go7700 is almost twice as fast as the Mac's GPU, plus the Mac comes with a core duo instead of a core 2 duo. Will the x1600 play counter strike? Yes it probably will, but if gaming is the main priority best to get the G1.

 

I would agree with RefinedPower. If gaming is really important, go with the G1. You would have to reboot every time you wanted to change environments, which is a pain. Plus the Go7700 will perform much better than the Core Duo's x1600. Now, a Core2Duo would be a different story. The x1600 in the Core2Duo is not heavily underclocked and performs much better than the CoreDuo MBP's, but even then I would probably go for the G1 if you are going to game a lot of the time.

 

The Original Counter-Strike isn't really hard on a modern computer. It's like DX5 generation, so it's not a problem. An underclocked X1600 has no problems with CS:S either. More modern games like Doom 3 though will not run at highest settings and isn't likely to be sustainable at native 1440x900 resolution. For reference, the underclocked 128MB X1600 in the original MBP is just a step up from a X1400, but is only like 75% of a full X1600.

As others have said, if you are a "medium/heavy" gamer or want to play the latest/future games at high settings then the G1 is definitely a better choice.

 

Yeah, the x1600 on the CD MBP will have no problems with CS:S. The only thing I've come across that kills it is using HDR/Bloom with multiple light sources. Otherwise, it's good.

I haven't gamed much on mine, except for playing Civ 4, Indigo Prophecy, and Dark Messiah. I only have problems with Dark Messiah when I'm using HDR and I get on low health and I have a lot of different light sources going on. Thats with everything else turned up high (but no AA).

But hey, why not look at the new MBP? It has a fully clocked x1600. Besides, a MBP is not a DTR gaming machine like the G1.

Really, the only games that will hurt the x1600 in the CD MBP is HL 2 games using HDR and Oblivion. It will eat up anything with the Doom 3 engine. With ease.

 

I second that, go with the G1 for gaming

 

thanks for the info!

 

So yup, after getting bored with Dark Messiah, I put Oblivion on my MBP last night. Runs pretty good.
Only problem is that bloom and HDR KILLS the performance. At least, when I'm looking at things like the Oblivion gateways and other items where there are multiple light sources.

Beyond that, it's great. I think I need to start a new game as my character I was playing was lvl 28 and had like, all of the special items and such.

I'm curious though, is there a way to overclock the x1600 in windows? Actually, I should say, push it up to it's proper clock speed. And then maybe push it a bit over that?

But yes, Oblivion is very playable even on the underclocked GPU.

 

I haven't got a MBP yet so I can't really talk from experience, but I'm pretty sure people tend to use ATITool.

http://www.techpowerup.com/atitool/

There are also tweaked Omega drivers:

http://www.omegadrivers.net/ati.php

I'd definitely be interested to see how high you are overclocking and if it feels a lot hotter.

 

Do you have the 128 or 256mb version?

 

Yeah, I'll probably try that. I had forgotten about the Omega drivers.
Honestly, it didn't get that hot. But it's the first time I actually heard the fans.

xprophx : it's the 128mb version.

 

The 128mb should still be pretty decent...I've got the 256mb x1600, running 410mhz/400mhz clock settings tuned using ATItool, and Oblivion runs pretty well. Most people have been able to overclock the x1600 to around 450/450, but any higher and the computer freezes or there are plenty of artifacts. Be careful when you overclock; the thermal limits in the MBP x1600 mean that you have to run lower clocks...

 

Well, I'm not so much interested in overclocking it as getting it back up to normal clock speeds. Since we already know that it can run at normal clock speed without any problem (as it is in the C2D MBP) I don't worry about normal clock speeds.

I bet this is one of the few games where the 256mb of ram really help.

I'll keep in mind those speeds though. I'm glad ATItool works.

Wish that I could afford getting a MacPro (if it supported SLI).

 

Thanks for the drivers link

 

Be careful. Overclocking can be dangerous to your components. Remeber that the numbers ATI quotes are acceptable speeds for that card, they make no claim on a card running those speeds in EVERY situation. Also remember that the amount a card can be oc'd varies from card to card, i.e. mine may oc better than yours. One more thing, there is no reason to believe that because a C2D machine can safely run the x1600 at those speeds that the CD machine can as well. It seems evident that Apple improved the cooling in the C2D machine, meaning the video card could be clocked higher.

All I am saying is use ATITool and be sure to follow directions and recommendations listed on their site. You really don't want to trash your machine so you can play a game at a little higher frame rate with some eye candy turned on.

 

yeah overclocking in notebooks is always risky and worth considering really only in ones that run very cool and are underclocked for no explainable reason (hel80). the mbp was underclocked for a very good reason, its form over function and the cooling system can barely handle an underclocked x1600. i wouldnt recoment overclocking it unless u wanto scramble some eggs.

 

I got my MBP about a week ago and i'm very happy with it. But I was a bit underwhelmed with the gaming performance of it. Like Hollownail points out, i want to bump the speed of the x1600 to its original speed. Should it pose any problem to the notebook? any serious long term effect to it?

 

as far as heat goes with the MacBook Pro's, they do get as hot as all holy hell, but you have to realize that it is an Aluminum case, the metal kind of is a passive way to cool a laptop, not a comfortable one but if you can feel that much heat on the outside it should be decently cool on the inside, how are the temps on those? because I know how **** hot they get, in terms of the case.

I really don't understand why apple won't compromise their design somehow and make the case a little cooler, it has to be possible.

 

as i said before form over function. and i really would not recoment overclocking mbps anywhere. they already have heat issues, and very poor cooling, as i said it was underclocked for a **** good reason. i guess the same thoughts as always apply, if u wanto game, dont buy a mac

 

ATItool reads some weird ratings. It says that the clock and mem are set to almost 1000mhz. Dunno why...

circa, do you even own a MBP? They get hot, but since the updates, and the fix from the old MBP, it's not bad at all. I've noticed it mainly only gets really hot if it's charging and under full load.

But anyway, if I wanted to hardcore game, i wouldn't have bought a laptop

 

Do you have the CoreDuo or Core2Duo? How much VRAM?

 

If you bought a MBP a week ago, I'm going to assume that it's a new Core 2 Duo one. In that case, the X1600 is not underclocked (mobile GPU's clocks vary and this one is now in the average range instead of under it) so this is basically the gaming performance you should expect from any X1600. I believe the C2D MBP X1600 is clocked around 425MHz/450MHz which is pretty decent. People always quote the 470MHz/470MHz number, but that is just the maximum speed that ATI will warranty the GPU to an OEM given "proper" operating conditions. Few if any notebooks have the X1600 clocked that high by default.

I think that's a driver incompatibility. It happens sometimes. You might want to try different driver versions, official vs. Omega, latest vs. 1 month old, etc.

 

What's a "G1"?

And it would not void your warranty to add RAM on your own, no. That's the only thing you can touch inside the computer though.

 

Here is the Asus G1:
http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=5&l2=74&l3=464&model=1447&modelmenu=1
It is Asus' attempt at making a 15.4" gaming machine.

 

CS 1.6 runs perfectly on my computer though it's a core 2 duo. But it shouldn't make that much of a difference. The graphics cards for both our computers are the same.

 

I have a 2.16 C2D and with 1 gig of ram and 128 in vram.

Update: I read around and you guys pointed out that the x1600 from the c2d is slightly under clocked. Guess I don't have any real reason to overclock the gpu.

 

One thing you may want to try that should not be too risky are the Omega Drivers. They may boost you a little more. Of course, they only are for Windows. Might be worth a shot.

 

With the high end core 2 duo 2.33, the x1600 is 256mb.

 

Hi, I recently bought a Macbook Pro with the following specs:

2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1440 x 900 pixels
1GB memory
120GB hard drive1
6x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 graphics with 128MB SDRAM

And I've been a little bit worried about gaming performance...Is the 256MB version of the card significantly stronger? I mostly want to play Battlefield 2 with good specs. How much stronger is the 256MB one vs the 128 MB one? Thanks.

 

I'm not sure how much of a difference there will be. I would be more worried about the poor coding they used for the game. Everyone has been saying it's one fo the buggiest games. I'm not totally sure though how much difference you will see.
The 128 card can handle pretty much anything that doens't use AA and HDR lighting (as if any laptop card can). This question has been brought up a lot here, but i don't know anyone who has had real benchmark info.

 

3DMark05 scores:
2.16 Core2Duo 128MB x1600: 3870
2.33 Core2Duo 256MB x1600: 3976

Not much difference, and some of that is probably coming from the CPU. In my opinion it probably is not worth $500. The x1600 in reality is a midrange card on a desktop, and being in a laptop makes it even slower, so it will not perform great in the newest games, but everything will be playable. You just may not be able to turn everything to max. To be honest, I never really noticed much difference in games with everything on vs off, then again I am probably paying more attention to the game and less to my reflection in a window.

 

1 other point is that both versions are underclocked quite bit on mBp

 

Not really. The c2d ones are hardly underclocked and I believe within the same clock speed as some other laptops.

 

They are now clocked at similar speeds as all other x1600's. If you look at the 3dMark05 scores I posted you will see they are in line with most x1600's.

 

You should be ok. It'll run better than any windows-based laptop and the glossy screen looks georgeous.

 

The MBPs x1600 also has Gddr3 memory, while many other x1600 gpus only have ddr2. example ..the Asus s96j, and it scores roughly 3500 stock..and will achieve around 3900 in 3d05 with a considerable overclock

 

I have the 128 mb CD MacBook Pro and have played Half-life 2 and am currently playing Oblivion. They look great and I haven't had any trouble playing these games at mid-range.

I've overclocked a bit using ATI Tool, but it doesn't seem to make too big a difference between the default and overclocked settings. Heat has never been an issue when playing games.

 

Battlefield 2 is pretty memory intensive. You will suffer with 1 gb ram.

128 vs 256 VRam - 256 will be able to store more images so there is a performance increase. You'll be able to squeeze more settings out of a 256 vs a 128.

I'd say the extra ram, vram, cpu speed is worth the extra money if you want to game.