Help Me Decide: Macbook Pro OR XPS M1530!

Because it's patent pending.

 

It is so awesome that it can burn down your house.

http://www.appledefects.com/wiki/index.php?title=Magsafe

 

What are the chances of that ever happening to a majority of customers? Pretty slim.

 

I'd say save up a bit extra for the 15" 2.4Ghz macbook pro which is far better than the macbook or the dell.

 

As obvious as it's going to seem, I'm a PC enthusiast, plain and simple. Or maybe it's a bigger case of not liking Steve Jobs, who knows. Anyways, I own a Dell XPS M1530 T7500 2.2GHz 4MB L2 cache 4Gig RAM WSXGA+ LG screen Vista Premium... and I haven't had a SINGLE problem with Vista or anything. I game quite a bit with this notebook, as well as edit photos, and other normal functions... often at the same time with no problems.

Dell's Customer Service and Warranty service are absolutely amazing (at least with the XPS line) and the only wires/peripherals coming out of my computer are the power cord and a USB wireless mouse (with right clickability )

Also, I personally find the m1530 very aesthetic, which is something Mac owners seem to boast about with theirs... XPS is comfortable yet professional. Also, there are many guides to remove bloatware (the best is available in the Dell forum) and it's quite simple if that's any trouble...

If LED screens are important, Dell also offers those. And the extra USB port is helpful too.

 

Playing the devil's advocate, I can argue the other side.

Everyone always says "I've had no problems with Vista." But you notice it's never "Wow Vista is so efficient/cool/good." There just isn't the same positive buzz surrounding it as Leopard.

Dell's customer support and warranty? I'll admit I've had great experiences with the XPS line as well. But when my Dimension hit the toilet, they left me high and dry. There's still a bad taste in my mouth. Apple's support? #1 per Consumer's Report.

Right clicky mouse? Yeah, I've got that with the Logitech MX510 mouse plugged into my MBP.

Removing bloatware? There was none on the MBP.

All in all, I too am very happy with the purchase decision I made in picking the MBP over the M1530. The hardware quality (yes, albeit at a premium) is truly outstanding.

 

So I am guessing Apple's at-home and accidental warranty services are very good...oh wait.. Apple doesn't have those.

You don't have bloatware? What about 2.1 gig of printer drivers, gigs of language files, gigs of garageband files that no average user will ever use that comes preinstalled?
You should format a computer when you receive it anyway, at least with Dell those bloatware actually reduce the price.

Hardware quality is exactly the same as any PC hardware, welcome to Intel world.
Only difference is a pretty case, which has a VERY HIGH premium. (150$ extra just for black color, anyone?)

 

LOL, sounds like you work for Dell, I've never heard anyone say this much good stuff about Dell, their customer service and Windows (especially Vista) in the same post.

 

LOL, OMG, I can't stop laughing, you couldn't think of any real way to defend the bloat-crap that comes on a Dell PC so you spoke about printer drivers and Garageband loops on a Mac? Sorry, but I am a musician and I use Garageband and the loops for sampling. Preinstalled printer drivers are part of the "Just Works" campaign and FYI bloatware is generally crap installed from OTHER developers that is TRIAL software that requires you to PAY for it to keep it.
Apple's iWork suite may be the only trial software on a Mac and most people end up using it.

Dell's reduced price is not generally because of the bloatware, Dells are generally not worth much.

 

The best way to think of wether to get one notebook versus another is to answer the following question: "What do you intend to do with it?"

Choose MBP If...
1. You want a slim powerful notebook.
2. Want Mac OSX.
3. The screen is adequate to your taste (it more often than not will).
4. Are comfortable with the keyboard.

Choose M1530 If...
1. You have software written for or supported only on Windows.
2. Want to game (falls in line with #1).
3. Are comfortable with the keyboard.
4. Are comfortable with the screen.

It is true that you can get better hardware on the M1530 for a cheaper price.

But, in my opinion the MBP has a better build quality about it. Also, Apple Care is quite good. The genius bar at the Apple store offerred to test my MBP for power-related problems when I couldn't reproduce the symptom. These days the quality of the service you get for repairs is very important, because all hardware fails at some point.

 

Trust me, growing up (I'm only 17, but I've been a computer enthusiast for quite some time) I HATED Dell. Their bulky everything and crap quality... However I'm on a very tight budget with college coming up, but I needed a computer that could do what I need it to do with college and eventually a career... I researched a lot, and ended up getting the 1530... and couldn't be happier. I didn't expect it, but hey, don't look a gift-horse in the mouth. And with Vista... I used to go by only reviews and I'd tell all my friends how much I hated Vista b/c it's still crap etc... but since it's all that's available from Dell with XPS, I took it, and I love it. It's very pretty, yet still has that nice Windows feel that I've grown up with. The XPS is neither bulky nor had any bloatware that caused me any trouble to remove. I realize this is only my experience, others have had a terrible time with Dell... I can't speak for them.

Also, I occasionally use Macs, and frequently used them in grade school... and even before I wanted to go into the computer profession (like 6 or 7 years old) I couldn't stand working with a Mac... it's all about experiences i guess.

 

I have to say I was a pc/windows user ever since the dos days and just switched to the mac in 2005 with my first mac being the powerbook g4.

I guess I picked the right time to switch as I heard apple was moving to intel and I sold the powerbook g4 (very slow and outdated glad they made the switch to intel) and moved onto the first macbook pro and now the newer macbook pro.

All I have to say is wow, OSX is the best thing I've ever used. Its perfect ultimate operating system and so integrated so well for multimedia (music and videos)/websurfing and general computing and especially the dock and how applications are just drag and drop installs instead of all these .dll's and .exe headaches. Not to mention pretty much no viruses (I know people will still counter with yes there is but pretty much the average mac user will never run into any viruses/trojans.

As for the 2 button clicks on the trackpad and scrolling, I HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend and love the multitouch in the new macbook pros! I rather have a nice clean big trackpad with 1 nice clicker and just putting 2 fingers which takes a fraction of a second to use both fingers to scroll up and down is so easy and precise it beats any trackpad with the little line you have to match on the right or left side any day. 95% of the time I like using the trackpad or doesnt make any difference from me using a trackpad or the mouse.

Not to mention the 3 finger swiping to the left or right is freaking awesome to go back and forth pages and or in windows to go back and forth from folders. And making text bigger to read on safari is bad ass too with just pinching the screen 2 or 3 times for the font to be bigger or making it smaller. One feature I really love on safari is that if you dont understand a word, all you have to do is put the mouse/cursor over that word and press and hold control and command and press the key "d" and the word is defined right there and then on the page! Great for learning and for school also not to mention dictionary is built onto osx!! Helped me many times for school.

Trackpad is just plain awesome and so precise. And I like the fact the trackpad's clicker is just 1 big button so its easy to click as well. Not to mention the backlit keyboard is freakin beautiful and not only that its very useful. I took granted of the backlit keyboard when I was using a hp 2710p tablet pc even with the little led light on the top that flashes the keyboard down but the backlit keyboard is so well designed that night or day doesnt matter where you use the mbp its always like day time.

Also not to mention the fact that you can run parallels (which I do for windows) I only use bearshare to d/l some music and while dual display mode with my mbp and 23" ACD I can have windows opened on the right side and osx with webbrowsing on the left side.

And if I want to play call of duty 4 all I have to do is just reboot and just hold onto the option key and you can just choose to load windows, simple as that.

Either way 95% of the time I'm on osx and 5% of the time playing COD4.

If gaming is your concern you might as well just buy the dell xps for the specs to run almost any game. But if you want to do everything else much easier, way more stable, integrated brilliantly, especially working with videos/music, moving around big files at a time and easiest way to use the webpage especially the trackpad (where you dont even have to lift your right or left hand off of the trackpad almost 100% of the time because you can do everything with just one hand (except for typing) I'd say go for the mbp!

And finally I absolutely LOVE firewire 400/800. As a movie buff I cannot live WITHOUT fw400/800. I have 1tb external hdd's (seagate 1tb not 2x500gb at raid 0 or anything just for storage) and I usually move around 90gb+ around from my mbp to the external 1tb drives and vice versa. I remember I used my brothers dell to move 97gb and it took an 1hr and 20 minutes while on my macbook pro via fw800 it took just 32-34 mintues!! That right there is well worth it.

Before I used the powerbook/macbook pro.. I dont know HOW I got along with using pc's for all the 20 years, (I guess ignorance is bliss?). And I used to be the type where I saw a mac I would think eww nasty~ those slow clunky looking machines that I saw at school that you can only play organ trail?? I hate macS!~ That was my impression and I was ignorant and never really sat down and fully used the latest osx.

My cousin had a powerbook g4 and it looked all interesting to me to first see what that bar was and it looked totally different than the ones I saw when I was younger at my elementary school. I played around with his and was shocked how well and easy it was to use and how stable it was as well. Especially he told me he hadnt restarted in 8 months!! My cousin uses his macs to run a server for work at home and he only uses macs as they are the most stable machines, well you can include linux as well (same underneath).

To give you an example of stability with the osx my cousin had a powermac G5 and ran osx for continuously for 5 years with 4-5 restarts (and restarted for software updates).

Also I love software updates because once you update YOU WILL NOTICE A DIFFERENCE not like service pack 2 or something~

Another thing to note: I hated to defragment on windows where you can set it up to do it at your conveniences.. but this is where OSX shines as well, YOU DONT EVER NEED TO DEFRAGMENT since it does it in the background and even if you dont restart osx for 4-5 years it will never slow down and will run like a fresh restart like in windows.

I'm not just knocking down windows, you can get cheaper pc laptops if your budget doesnt stretch a macbook/macbook pro like a $500 dell/ibm (older models that will run windows xp just fine with a pentium M). I ran windows and I know how to what to do and what NOT to do and always use firefox. I used windows for 20 years and maybe 2 of my computer has been infected with a virus which I needed a new harddrive but for 20 years that was darn good and especially the reason I got the viruses was when I was younger and didnt know any better.

I could use windows vista right now and never get a virus because all you have to do is just use firefox + avg free virus protector and just dont d/l any warez or pirated stuff since it will have hidden trojans.. I'm very aware of that.. even one time this hacker hacked into my xp and controlled my mouse and keyboard and talked to me like that t.v. show on pbs ghost writer (I dont know if anyone remembers that show, lol) on anywhere text could be entered.. but he was a nice hacker and actually erased the trojan out of my computer and left! Hackers are pretty nice, lol.

But I would much rather use the osx.. just.. that much simpler and time saver and just plug and play and off you go.

Another cool story about macs is that my mother has NEVER EVER used a computer in her life. She doesnt know what apple or microsoft is and what the differences are. I gave her my white macbook core duo 1.83Ghz and it only took her a an hour to figure out how to use it. After a few weeks she was surfing the web all by herself and I did see some files moved around and alot of stuff opened which didnt need to be opened but now after almost 2 years she still uses it and not once did it freeze/crash. I think she never even restarted it all this time and she just closes it to put it to sleep and just open it up to just use it. When I see her she's always on her couch watching t.v. and now websurfing.. its weird for me to see that as my 50 year old mother never used a computer in her life and after just an hour with the mac she's looking at realestate houses on searches to look for a new house she wants to move to and finding her old friends online and keeping in touch!

All I can say is wow.. with windows I would have to come over and fix her windows after her moving an important file or erasing something that she shouldnt have erased like a .dll file or .exe or whatever other little files are contained inside a folder in windows to make that one little program.

God did I mention I love how applications are in osx?? Just 1 little file you just drag and drop onto "apps folder" and its a nice big icon of a picture of the program and if you dont want it you dont have to go to add/remove and do all this bs and restart and sometimes after you restart you are missing some .dll files and windows need to be reinstalled or if you do get into windows the program isnt fully removed and still on the add/remove and you have to find a way to manually erase it all for it to be clean?? Whew...

 

^^ lol @ fanboy-ism. It's all good though, haha.

 

Lol, I admit I was a windows/pc fan boy and now I'm an apple fan boy.

Honestly though I dont hate dell or IBM. I think the dell xps is pretty cool for what it is and the thinkpads are still pretty sexy. And honestly if I could run OSX 100% natively (no hackintosh tried it with the sony vaio tz which I think are very very nice/sexy ultraportable probably the best ultraportable I've ever used) I would use a dell, IBM, especially sony vaio's. But sadly there is no option for osx in other laptops.

 

Judging from all the posts in the Dell forum about screen graininess, case misfits, keyboard bulges, etc... etc... etc, I think your argument falls flat.

And by the way, there is no black edition of the MBP......

 

Is there any truth to the fact mentioned in a nother thread that Apple have downclocked the GPU in the MBP? Would that not make the 1530 a more capable gaming machine?

 

Apple downclocked them, but you can clock them back up using ATITool or nTune. I'm able to overclock to 585/880.

 

Don't take this personally, but fanboy-ism is dumb in any form, be it Apple vs. Microsoft; Playstation vs. Xbox; HD DVD vs. Blu-ray, whatever. Everything has its virtues and vices.

I do agree, though, that having some Apple-approved form of OS X available to non-Apple machines would be very nice.

 

I use a macbook as my laptop and i windows vista ultimate edition on my desktop. I did not like windows vista at first because i used it on a laptop without a dedicated videocard, so the aero effects were slow and i turned them off. But on my desktop, i am having a great second experience with vista right now.

 

What about yellow screen, bent case, melting magsafe, heat problems, etc... etc... etc, I think your argument falls flat too.

Wow apple fanboy that didn't understand that I was talking about black macbook? MBP aluminium case is probably near 1000$ premium.

 

Let's cool it a bit here, guys! Constructive discussion please!

 

Well i went with the mac. Honestly I use photoshop is school ALOT and my mac loves it. So it really depends on what you are doing.

 

I use both and they both do what they need to do.

 

None taken, sometimes fan-boyism happens naturally whether you try not to be. I'm just telling you guys just how automatically and how I realized I became an apple fanboy.

Generally though I love notebooks.. I like sony vaio so maybe not an absolute fanboy?

But I do agree fanboyism is stupid, I love the xbox 360 and I love the ps3 and when I see people argue about how one's graphics looks tad bit better and obviously its subjective.. they look very dumb.

 

You got to understand no matter what product there WILL ALWAYS BE PROBLEMS.

Even BMW's, MERCEDEZ, FERRARIS, LAMBORGHINI will have problems.

So I think that argument is kind of dumb.

 

I can do that. One look at the signature and I can instantly understand the need to lash out.

 

everything's about cost, cost AND cost

lets compare, education pricing(since i'm going to be a college student):
m1330 vs MB
1330:$1450, nvidia 8400, 3GB ram, T7250, 4 yr warranty+accidental damage
MB:$1250, no graphics card, 2.1ghz processor, 3 yrprotection plan

m1530 vs MBP
m1530:$1400, nvidia 8600, 4GB ram, T8300, 4 yr warranty+accidental
MBP:$2000, nvidia 8600, 2.4ghz , 3yr protection plan(extract $240 if u dont want plan)

if u can afford it (and want to try it), go switch to apple.....
i personally can't afford to go to apple...

 

Not many people can today. Hell i am surprised apple sold so many macs thus far due to the economy being in the **** hole.

 

Sadly, United States runs on credit cards.

 

I have been a PC guy for most of my life and I'll admit that I am pretty ignorant with MAC products but they do look nice to use. I only used MAC during college (G4) so that I could gain access to AIX Unix for programming purposes, that's as far as me using a Mac. I don't dislike MAC, but I disagree with the proprietary hardware and higher prices. Both correlates with each other. Before I could afford to buy my XPS laptop, I used to build my own desktop and that's how I like it... can't do that with an OS-X desktop.

The MacBook Pro laptops are extremely nice lappies. I watched an Apple Genius troubleshoot a MacBook Pro with a customer while I was waiting for my IPOD Nano, 3rd Gen, replacement (btw, I realized now that Ipods are only good for hype) at the store. The screen is very clear and the casing was sleek. Hot! Stylish, which I expected nothing less compared to my XPS 1530 due to the price difference. I'm tempted to buy a MBP just to experience the "sensation", but can I afford to buy a loaded spec'd system (nothing less than my current XPS 1530 specs) for less than $2,000 shipped? No matter how awesome OS-X is, I have no interest in paying $2100-$2500 for a notebook that a PC version can be had for $1500-$1900 with 3 year CC warranty.

Someone mentioned that Dell's build quality is suspect. That's a bunch of bull, not because I own a whole bunch of Dell products (XPS 1530 is my first Dell!)... but because my XPS experiences nothing of the problems (squeaking when opening and closing the lid?!?) that some people complain about. Sure, it's got a black "plastic" cover that can squeak if you press down hard on it while it is closed... but that's just being anal & picky (what noise will it make if I drop it off a building?). How many XPS 1530s/1330s did Dell sell compared to a Macbook and/or MacBook Pro? Probably several times more and then some more after that, so the complaints are obviously going to be louder coming from Dell customers.

Grainy screen? Sure, but that's not Dell quality ... whoever made the screens provided that quality to Dell, Dell just applied it to their build... and the manufacturer of that screen is not some hole in the wall manufacturer (*cough* Samsung *cough*). It's not what anyone would prefer as a top-notch screen quality, but I have it and it's not an unusual type of screen you can't find elsewhere. Is it quality that ONLY shadows Dell? Not so from recent news as Apple has been SUED for GRAINY screens:

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/052107-apple-sued-over-grainy-macbook.html

Dell had a negative imagine impact with the Dell "Sony" batteries, but Sony also sold those same batteries to Fujitsu, Toshiba, Gateway, HP and even installed them into their own line of laptops. That should not be blamed on Dell quality.

The power adapter comparison between XPS and MAC. Yeah, sure, Mac adapter plug has a very unique and thoughtful idea. Just makes me wonder how clumsy people can be if they can manage to wrangle the XPS adapter plug that will come straight out if pulled with any reasonable force... you'd have to literally yank the sucker sideways to see if you can damage the adapter plug. I have dropped my laptop from my bed (only 2 1/2 feet height but still a drop) straight on top of the power adapter plug and it didn't damage the laptop at all. My point here is that it's completely not an issue for me as the XPS power adapter can be easily plugged in and unplugged. The MAC idea is cool, but the XPS adapter is no where near unbearable. It's not a bad MAC design at all, but again, you're paying for it. Is it worth it? I love my laptop as it is.

Man, people just seem to like to hammer the XPS for every single nooks and holes they can find. The XPS is probably one of the nicest looking PC laptops available from what I had been able to compare out there. MBP looks nicer due to the "complete flat" design, but XPS 1530 is the ONLY laptop that comes extremely close to the MBR design in my opinion... and for lesser the cost.

VISTA is no slouch, people like to hammer it too. Did someone say OS-X auto-defrags? Guess what? Yeah, VISTA auto-defrags in the background too... so welcome a new member into your holy club. I think the VISTA AERO idea came from MAC OS too. I don't know much about OS-X so I don't know what else to compare to it against VISTA, but I do know that Microsoft is trying to take a cue from Apple in the fancy features department... so you'll see Microsoft improving the style (and reliability) of their OS in the future. Intel wouldn't be Intel of today had AMD not stepped in and provided performance shattering features in their past processor (Athlon).

 

The grainy screen though is from some ignorant people who all this time thought powerbooks or all notebooks have an 8-bit screen. Which in general all notebooks have a 6bit tn screen. So the grainy issue could be from any notebook computer.

As for me though I would gladly pay the extra $500 from the price of a dell XPS to get a mbp just because of osx alone and that the macbook pro will have very good and most efficient use over the next 5-10 years. Not to mention resale value and if you keep your mbp in great condition or even mint after 3-4 years you can still sell the mbp for 70% of what you paid for. Even the powerbook 12" are still going around for $750-$900. Thats the one thing I love about mbp is the resale value.

Heck I know at least a dozen of people who still uses their 6-8 year old powerbook/macs and they still run leopard very well and even runs it faster than the previous osx. I guess for everything else besides games macs are great for long term buy.

Also didnt someone report that macbook pros are the best selling high end laptops.. doesnt that defeat your explaination about xps selling alot more than the mbp?

I have to say though VISTA is a waste and only good for directx 10. Even my brother whom is a die hard dell fan.. still uses windows xp.. I told him vista is alot nicer but he just tells me xp runs much better on his core 2 duo machine as well. He owns a dell inspiron e1705. He really wants an xps as he games alot and he is currently saving up for one.

I think the mbp have its own problems/issues and the dell xps as well. If $$ is a concern then by all means get the xps but if you want something to just work very well and efficiently and do everything else (which I'm not saying pc laptops wont as I do use parallels to run windows for a couple of programs I like to use) but cost more $$ then get the mbp.

I'm not trying to start a fanboy war I respect your opinions and they are very valid but I just wanted to point out a couple of things about the grainy issue and the resale value.

And some of my opinions as well.

 

I sold my XPS m1530 and will be getting a macbook in the next few months. Although the XPS does perform quite well, it just didn't feel right

 

When the dell xps 1330 was first released, I thought it was a cool looking laptop. I like the black color.. if you could install osx on one of those natively, I'd probably get one.

I still think that dell copied the look of the m1330 especially that hinge part where its thicker from the sony vaio tz. =D

I also hear that apple hires previous sony designers/engineers and thats how the macbook chicklet keyboards were design. Something I thought was interesting!! Or maybe dell hired some previous sony designers?

Another thing to note is that on the pc side I guess I used to love dell's ever since the 300mhz desktop my friend had that ran doom so fast!! I was instantly jealous! Lol, bring back memories.

Anyways, I really have a soft spot for sony vaio t series ultraportables.. the macbook air is starting to get the idea but still not quite there.. maybe rev. b or c will do it enough for me to give in.. but just not yet.

However.. when I had hackint0sh running on that sony vaio tz.. it was awesome.. just only had some sleep issues and some programs bugs.. which didnt feel authentic in running osx on the sony..

I still think that the sony vaio tz's led screen was the most beautiful/clean led backlit screen I've ever seen. I thought it was much better than the mbp as well as I did own the mbp and the tz together and compared side by side. I think it was called xblack or something like that.

 

Probably because they it has a habit of bursting into flames

For 90 days, you have to pay extra for the privilege of extended phone support.

One very very long, repetitive ramble about how good OSX is. You have failed to give any real reasons why stuff is better: For instance, I never found difficulty clicking 2 buttons.
Windows isn't perfect; but OSX has it's problems as well: Bricking of computers installing leopard, heavy mode-based system, dock organisation, etc.

I just wonder as to your logic: You recommend buying the machine with lower specs, worse warranties and higher price?

 

no, i recommend people with limited budgets to go to dell, but people who want mac OS to go to apple....and since these people already have money, they can buy a higher spec mac....

 

I'm surprised at how effective Apple has marketed the Mac. I know a lot of PC users that say,"Macs are better at Graphic Design and film, I'd only get one if I was doing that." Of course, when asked, they didn't know why. You can do that stuff just as well on a PC, it's just that Apple has succeeded in building a beneficial reputation as the "artists" computer. It's not a bad thing, it's business. I still might buy a mac when the time comes to replace my PC.

 

Well, its all in the power of marketing, really..."Macs are better in the arts" has many reasons...yes, it does have all the software, but nowadays so does Windows. But one thing is that many of the studios are already established with Macs, so its going to tough to switch over to Windows...and if Mac does it fine, why bother switching?

Same thing with corporates...iPhones and BlackBerrys might be able to do the exact same things for a corporation, but since they already have so many connections with RIM, that corporation will probably just stick to BlackBerrys, since there's no problems with it.

 

f

Sorry but I've never heard of the magsafe bursting into flames. But I have heard from a few people out of millions that had the magsafe slightly melt. If your referring to the bursting into flames its just your imagination.

Well its not just a long ramble and I did not fail at anything. I was just telling you my opinions on how wonderful the trackpad is compared to the conventional 2 click, not to mention how awful it is to use pc laptop trackpads. Even people who has been using only pc's tried my multitouch and was amazed and loved to use it and all of them hates using their pc's trackpad where its not accurate and doesnt register the finger somtimes, also the right side where you scroll up and down they dont even bother to use it as it doesnt work well and always brings an external mouse with them and never touch the trackpad.

Even my brother who's a die hard dell fan enjoyed the multitouch and was wowed and even told me why dell or any other pc's dont use multitouch or the 2 finger scroll(up and down and left and right), 3 finger swipe, pinch, etc.. and that if he had used a mac he would never bring an optical mouse around with him anywhere. And I've never seen him use the trackpad in either of his dell and hp laptops and always has an optical mouse even laying in bed. He even told me himself that he hated the trackpad on the dell or the hp that he had or the previous thinkpad as well. I know that my brother will never buy a mac because games are important to him and he wants to keep his laptop so that he can play future games and his target is an xps which will do the job right for that.

Not to mention defragmentation, how apps are installed is much better and easier on the osx and no viruses, perfect integration, saves people time, looks better, dock is convenient, better at moving around huge files to save massive amounts of time, better microsoft word and easier to use (imho), can run 2 or 3 windows xp on osx even on a laptop to use small programs which I do with bearshare, iphoto builtin leopard (is easy to take pictures with digital camera to unload the photos and enhance), itunes for all mp3, dictionary built right in osx as well and on safari to define anything right there and then, ichat is so easy to use, mail easy access all the time, ical, easier newsgroup downloads..(hush hush about that) etc... Also not to mention how bios is almost 20 years outdated and efi is what should have been used since then and now.

And your explanation about how macs problems are dock organization.. are you serious??? Its so easy all you do is open up the apps folder pick out which application (which is all but 1 picture of a file) and just drag it onto the doc and you can just move it around to organize. And if you dont want that application on your dock anymore just drag it out of the dock and poof it disappears. How easy is that?!? I'd say the dock and organization beats the start button on windows any day of the week especially the little shortcuts icons to drag onto the little arrow on the bottom left next to the start button. And especially loath the add/remove system on windows and having to restart for almost every apps installed and that every little program has so many little files that you have to make sure not to lose and sometimes just disappears on its own after a restart or crash. Especially windows missing a .dll or something all of a sudden.. this type of stuff never happens on osx.

And I have no idea what the hell heavy-mode based system is which I have massively googled for the last hour and a half and nothing and I have a feeling you just made that one up and snuck that one in there because there is nothing else you can think of especially the etc..

Another thing that bothered me about your comment is that I dont know where you got the bricking from installing leopard is coming from. I'm always on the macnn or macrumors forums, apple support site and I've never seen anyone say that their computer has bricked because of a bad leopard install. That just doesnt make any sense at all. To me, you are just making things up as you go because you have nothing to counter anyone's facts and how vista has failed. If directx 10 isnt of any concern I think that microsoft should have stuck with xp. Even IBM has switched officially over to linux, what osx is built from the ground up from.

I believe in the next 10 years that all businesses will transform into linux.

I say if $$ is an issue and you game alot then a pc is perfect for you but if you have the extra $$ to spend and you want a much better experience in the computing world then get a mac.

I know alot of people say that apple is genius for their marketing but I really have to think twice about that. Because to me I think microsoft is the real genius behind the marketing this is how bill gates had made all the money he did with something inferior as windows as to the osx. I was a computer geek since I was maybe 8 years old and I've never used a mac or even seen one but I did hear something about a mac thats different but all I ever hear about is windows and microsoft, whether its at school or at the store (where I can actually play with one) and especially for games from magazines. So I never got to really try out osx and always played with the dos or windows 3.1.

I think people are starting to switch over to osx realizing how much superior it is and has nothing to do with marketing, just plain using it and finding out for themselves how great it is.

One last thing to note as well is the resale value. Another thing that I love about the macs are its resale value. After 3-4 years if you sell your mbp you can still easily fetch 65%-75% of what you paid for and use that towards a new mbp. But try selling a dell xps in 4 years and see what you get.

 

Makes sense, if you must have Mac then go to Apple. Personally I can bare to do without it for the sake of a better computer.

There are some technical reasons why Macs are slightly better for graphics design, but it's not a major advantage.

Even "slightly melt" is very dangerous because it is likely to set other objects such as carpets on fire. Read this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/18/macbook_apple_support_hell/
Just one example.

I frequently use the trackpad on both my laptops, though I do use an external mouse if available. I fail to see how a three-fingered swipe for going forwards and backwards in Safari is a major addition in touchpad usability.

I'm not an expert on OSX, but I believe it is just that it runs in the background rather than "doesn't need it". Microsoft word is unlikely to run better on OSX than Windows. I can't understand the rest of that paragraph, could you please state it more clearly?

They place minimized Windows next to the trash can; Smart idea? The Dock expands outwards on both sides so icons don't stay in the same place, folders are impossible to identify. I do believe that the dock is better in some ways, but it's not without it's problems. Some of the problems with the dock: http://www.asktog.com/columns/044top10docksucks.html

I have very rarely had to restart when installing an app, only things which affect core system functions such as software updates normally requre a reboot. Not sure what you're on about with "every little program has so many little files that you have to make sure not to lose", I have done a fair number of stupid things with computers, but losing part of a program is never one of them. They also rarely just go missing of their own accord, as you portray

An explanation: http://www.osnews.com/story/18904/Common_Usability_Terms_pt._V:_Modes

Google it, from what I've read a fair few people found their machines unable to boot after installing leopard. If you don't understand, or won't admit if you do, my points then don't attack me for it. You are making assumptions yourself if you knew anything about me then you would know that I dislike Vista.

Businesses move over to Linux: I do hope so but I won't hold my breath. It should be noted, however, that Linux and OSX aren't the same thing.

I would say that if you have the extra $$ to spend then upgrade to a better pc.

Sure, 'cause Apple have never used marketing to their advantage at all....

To be honest, I don't sell my old laptops; I buy new ones. Even if I did, then it wouldn't be a huge factor in what I buy now.

 

Minimizing next to the trash can?? What do you mean?? minimize what? I never make a mistake by putting files into the trash can. Is it something like the windows where you accidentally erase the trash can and it can cause all sorts of errors?

I'm sorry I read that top reasons why dock sucks.. and to me its nothing like that. It seems like the stupidest things to make up to hate what the dock is. Honestly the 3 years of using osx I've never come to any of those problems. Especially because I never really put documents or small files like that on my dock anyway. Or you could just move your mouse cursor over and it will tell you the name right away so that just defeats the problems that the guy obviously a windows lover wrote on his site. Not to mention each reason is just really subjective as to "real problems" and he's talking about an older os 9/before panther osx, its really outdated.

Oh man I'm still laughing at the top reasons to hate docks its like doesnt make any sense. The trash on the bottom right of the dock is awesome place to place it and the trash can never "shifts", lol. This is some completely made up bs I've ever read in my life.

Ok fine, not ALL programs installing on windows will require a restart. BUT removing a small app will require you to deal with add/remove and a restart and sometimes when you reboot after removing that program and you find out that its still sitting on your add/remove utility and its not removed completely. Not with osx where you can just drag the 1 icon which is the whole program and just empty the trash, and your done. Same way as installing an app you just drag that one icon to the apps folder and your done.

Obviously those websites are just opinions and especially from pro window users.

Especially that one website is from 1 macbook user out of millions so thats not good enough or valid. Try putting a dell xps on your lap and see what kinds of burns you will get after hours of gameplay. There's also solutions as ilaps or pc variations of it that you could easily use on your lap.

Windows run on parallels natively and exactly the same as in any pc minus the gaming on osx (but you can run bootcamp for your gaming needs). I run bearshare and it runs 100% error free and when I play party poker. But those are the only reasons for me using windows on osx.

From your comments and when you say your no expert, to me seems as you've never really owned a mac or played with no more than a minute. Also seems as you've only "read" about how osx works and what other people might pick out to complain about and never really used one yourself.

Also I find it pretty cool that running vista or xp (under bootcamp) on my mbp runs alot better and faster than it does on my brothers dell. Even the trackpad works much better with the 2 finger click/ scroll in the windows side.

Believe me to me I can tell you've never fully used the mbp and efficiently to know how much better the trackpad is.

For example I can go back and go foward on webpages in an instant (split second), right click, scroll left scroll right, scroll up and down with just 1 hand each function done in a split second which is so much convenient and done faster. And once you get used to the functions it works brilliantly without even thinking.

Not to mention on the trackpad on the pc's you have to move the cursor over and hold the right scroll bar everytime and move the cursor over to the back and foward all the time which all adds up and consumes alot more time than the finger gestures.

I know you might keep the older laptops and just use it as a 2nd system or it just sits there but for me and I'm sure alot of other people, we only need 1 laptop and would rather sell the 4 year old mbp and get the $1500 to put towards a newer, much faster laptop and dont feel wasteful.

And finally I did not attack you seems to me you have attacked me first from what my opinions were. And I can see clearly from you Sig that your a dell lover/fan boy and vice versa on my end.

But keep in mind I was a 20+ year windows user with just recently switched to the osx/linux side in 2005. I have first hand experience fully in each area so I know what I'm talking about instead of reading people's opinion especially people who are die hard windows fan to pick out the problems in osx which isnt really that much of a big deal compared to the problems windows has.

I used to be a die hard dell fan. My first computer was an ibm in the dos days and a gateway 2000 in the windows 3.1 era (gateway was an awesome company back then) and then I moved up onto an nec system (absolutely loved that system) then I saw my friend's dell with the 300mhz running doom like its nothing and fell in love with dell. From that point on I only bought dell xps/inspiron and then switched over to sony/thinkpads and now finally got to use osx on my cousin's powerbook g4 in 2005 and switched to macs and never looked back (only for occasional gaming of cod4 on my mbp via bootcamp).

But if I were to use windows again as my main os, I can honestly say I wont have any problems because I know how to maintain it and what to do and not to do. But not everyone does. I remember I was at a compusa when it was closing down and this guy was looking at the sony vaio's and told me he needed a new computer because his was infested with viruses (obvious he watched alot of porn just looks like that type of guy and what guy doesnt??) and I told him why dont you use firefox? And his response was what's firefox??!? I was like nevermind~

But even with firefox downloading watching porn/warez/random banners even non porn stuff can get you infected with a virus or even trojans. I remember my cousin had to take a look at his friends pc laptop because he said it had a virus or just wont run right. When looking deep within the bios he found a trojan which someone implanted from a commercialized game you can play online like a banner that he wanted to play and someone was using his ip address and was trafficking kiddy porn for the last 2 years off his line. After that my cousin's friend switched over to the mac as they dont use activex and that wont happen. Especially my cousin's friend is a very religious guy.

And like I mentioned that even my 50 year old mother who never touched a computer in her life was using the mac like a amateur within a couple of days. And already learned how to use safari in 30 minutes-hour. Even after a day she NEVER even asked me about anything and uses it like its nothing.

As for my father he never used a mac but he did buy a emachine from walmart for email and websites. I had to come over to reinstall windows.. I dont know how many times~ but with my mother, its been 2 years and she hasnt even restarted the macbook even once or has caused any problems. Sure some files were moved around and programs like iphoto and itunes were left opened as she didnt know how to close them but other than that still running perfectly.

Imagine if someone who knows absolutely nothing about computers can use them this well on macs, how an advanced user can put good use to the macs. And remember real hackers use macs~ heh.

And no offense.. I feel as you are just trolling around in an mac/osx forum as I can clearly see that your a dell fan boy considering your sig. I know I've turned into an apple fan boy but I dont go around in dell forums to tell others why the dell/pc/windows sucks and why osx rules. I usually stick to the forums that I'm interested in or currently the hardware that I'm using. Also I think those links that you gave me are all not valid and are all subjective, very very subjective. I could pull out thousands of links of why windows sucks, which that are "real problems."

 

I'd let it slide. Envy is the best compliment one can receive.

 

jjahshik32, it's a public forum so I think telling people what they can say or can not say on a section is a bit debatable... even if it is located on a Apple section, have you looked at the title of this thread? This isn't a Mac-only dedicated forum either. Most Mac users say that they don't game and only use it only for business and work if not for music/photo editing. I'd have to say if those are the only reasons then the capability gap is narrowing down as Microsoft VISTA can do just about ALL of that with comparable software... albeit, at a cost saving price.

Anyways, yeah, I don't really want to get into PC vs Apple thingy... it's been done so many times in the past and Windows doesn't seem to top Mac, but VISTA is MUCH better than the negative comments I have read about from uninformed users and users who are scared of new technology.
.

 

I dont like to argue about the pc vs. mac as much as the next sane person. But the guy was just asking for it. There are no private forums which only special members are allowed to post and pretty much every forum is open to the public and that's not the problem. Its just that he attacked me first even if its done passively and to top it off tells me that I'm attacking him and gives me all these bs websites that doesnt proove anything, that can tick off anyone.

C'mon, honestly reading about that macbook that gave a tiny little burn to 1 person in the world (which almost any notebook used on the lap could do or even worse) and that dock problem is a joke. How is that top ten pet peeves of the older osx dock a problem? It just seems like that person just didnt like the dock or its design on the older version of osx and I wouldnt call those a "real" problem and just a bunch of dumb fanboy opinions to me.

I do agree though pc's are cheaper and they can get the same job done. Its just a matter of how you want to get it done or how much easier it is to get it done.

 

I believe the minimising next to trash problem The General mentions is when you try to minimise a windows (double click on its frame or click the yellow button at top left corner), the window will be placed next to the trash can. I suppose some people might find it not to their liking.

Anyway, this discussion has totally gone off topic. Instead of focusing on the pros and cons of the MBP vs the Dell XPS M1530, it has become a discussion focused on the uncommon problems a few individual users have experienced. I also believe the thread starter has had his questions answered, and has abandoned this thread.
As a result, I will close this thread.