MBA or MBP?

I'm sorry if this has been posted a million times, but I'm having a hard time deciding between the two.


I'm limited to the base 11" MBA, and the base 13" MBP. What are the pro's and con's of purchasing one or the other? The only time I will need to use a drive is to install Microsoft Office, so I am concerned that I will be wasting $100 on an unused drive. I would maybe watch a movie or two, but it wouldn't be a priority.

Also, how big of a speed difference is there between the i5 in both machines?

 

You get an all around more powerful system with the baseline MBP, it also lasts longer on a single charge than the 11" MBA and has a larger display (and also larger internal storage drive). However, the MBA is more portable and uses SSD instead of a hard drive.

The pros and cons of each have been weighed out a lot on here, I suggest you search the forums to dig up some opinions on either platform. Also, you should keep in mind that Microcenter, a chain of stores in the U.S., is selling the baseline 13" MBP for $999 new.

I went with the 13" MBP because, at the time, the MBA line was still running older C2D processors instead of Sandy Bridge ones. Now, if I was on the market for a new notebook, I would probably go with the highest end 13" MBA. Otherwise, if my budget was $1000, I would definitely go with the baseline 13" MBP since that is the most powerful notebook from Apple in that price range and I couldn't imagine actually computing on anything smaller than a 13" display (it is actually 13.3") especially after having used a 10.6" netbook for so long that I wanted to drill my eyes out.

 

Tough call. If it were 13 MBA vs 13 MBP, I'd take the MBA 10 times out of 10. Far superior display, and not that much more performance cut.

I really think this is ultimately just a size decision though. The performance discrepancy isn't huge, but it isn't negligible either.

 

I'm replacing my 15" laptop so whatever I get will be my main computer.

I'm a student, so I can get the 11" for $949, and the MBP for $1099. Factor in an external disk drive, and the price is almost the same.

 

For what usage? If this is going to be your primary computer, I wouldn't get the 11" MBA. It's great for traveling and couch surfing but 13" is a more comfortable size when you're sitting at a desk trying to get work done. And what about the 13" MBA? It's only $100 more than the base 13" MBP.

 

Also you can use any $30.00 drive with the Air,you certainly do not need Apples to install Office.

If its your only machine,no question though make it the 13".

Ed

 

The Air ships with ultra-low-voltage varieties of Intel's CPUs, so the i5/i7s in the Pro should be faster. The performance difference will probably end up being small though if you just use it for office work and if you factor in the much, much faster SSD disk in the Air.

I have the new 11" Air and while I don't plan on running something like Creative Suite on it, it certainly doesn't appear to lose its breath when I use it. It's plenty fast and responsive in daily use.

The screen of the 13" MBP has a resolution of 1280x800. The 11" Air (or 11.6" which is the actual size of the screen) has a resolution of 1366x768, which actually means it has a somewhat higher PPI than the Pro.

You should be able to use the drive in your 15" laptop. No need to spend extra on an external drive that you'll rarely use (be it from Apple or otherwise).

I'd buy an Air mainly for the weight. Once you've carried around both the Pro almost looks (and feels!) like a heavy brick. If you can swing it financially, I'd consider the entry level 13" Air though as it features better battery life than the 11" and its larger screen (1440x900) probably works better for you if it's going to be your only computer.

 

I don't think the base 11" MBA is suitable for a primary computer. You're getting a glorified netbook.

 

Correct. If you ignore the i5 CPU, the full-size keyboard, the usable touchpad, the 1366x768 resolution, the aluminum body and the fact that it runs OS X, it totally is exactly just like a netbook!

 

If you don't mind refurbed and last years model, Apple is selling last years Core 2 Duo base model refurbed on their site for $1k. I bought a few things refurbed from Apple. They looked new to me and had the full warranty. If it's just for general usage, like Office and Internet, the Core 2 Duo should offer plenty of performance. The SSD probably offers more of a performance perk than the CPU. I'd agree with avservice that you can probably pick up an external drive for $25. That seems a better option if you only plan to use it for Office.

As to the 11", I find the WXGA on my X220 to be perfectly fine for extended usage. Maybe you should go to the store to check one out to see if you like it. If you want to use it at a desk, you can always pick an external monitor relatively cheaply if you need more resolution. I'd be more inclined toward the Air just cause I find the Pro to be a bit chunky for a 13", but that me.

 

Correct. It is just a size issue for me. Back in 2009, I purchased a 10.6" (or maybe 10.4", I don't remember) netbook to get me through my last two semesters for my BS degree. I really needed a new computer but I didn't want to plop down $1000+ for something that I may not need after I graduated (since graduate school was something I could not afford). I went from a 17" notebook that broke to a 14" Toshiba tablet and I was fine with that since 14" was still more than enough to get work done. However, once I went down to 10", I found myself using an external monitor almost all the time. So I couldn't imagine using anything below 12" as a primary computer. I did for a while and now I can't stand looking at my netbook. It kind of just sits there collecting dust, I should try to sell it for gas money.

So I would rather use a 13.3" display, even with a smaller resolution, than a higher density smaller display. The extra (almost) 2 inches really makes a difference.

I too have never really understood why people insist on calling the 11" MBA a netbook or a glorified netbook, it isn't. The display size being so small doesn't automatically make it a type of netbook (glorified or not). Netbooks, even glorified ones, don't pack hardware on the same level as what is in the MBA. At most they feature some AMD APU and call it a day while the Core i5 in the MBA is much more powerful and gives full desktop-like performance. It isn't an Atom chugging along struggling to run Windows 7 or an AMD APU running Windows 7 but then struggling when you load up some more serious programs.

The display size of a netbook is really only 1/8th the equation yet it is something that people often look at with these really small ultra ultra portable notebooks.

 

I would get the 13" MBA (not the 11" MBA)... higher resolution screen than the 13" MBP and you'll appreciate the svelteness (TM!).

If you don't mind the smaller resolution and the heavier/thicker form, I would take the 13" MPB over 11" MBA because of the battery life.

 

I would get the MBP13 for the longer battery life. You'll be glad to have those 2 extra hours. You could always just get a cheap external optical drive or see if you can download it instead of using a CD.

 

MBA

If you want MBP for power--don't. If you want power get a Sager/Clevo.

 

Cant really compare 11 vs 13 since 11 is awful to work on lo ver then an hour. You can ruin your eyesight using 11 too long, but thats just my opinion.

Else 13 vs 13 - air seems superior at just about everything, thats likely becAuse it can be considered newer tech as it was released five months after the mbp.

 

Except that the 13" MBA isn't superior at just about everything when compared to the 13" MBP. Even the baseline 13" MBP is more powerful, has been lasting longer on a single charge, etc. About the only things the 13" MBA has over the 13" MBP is its display resolution, extreme thinness, and it uses SSD so OS X and app load faster. Other than that, the MBP has all the other advantages over the MBA (more powerful, lasts longer, has more connectivity options, has a built-in optical drive, can handle more RAM, it too can also be upgraded later down the line to SSD, etc.).

Being newer doesn't automatically make it better.

 

Has a ULV i5, which is a good 25-40% slower than the real i5.

"Full-size" keyboard only by Apple's advertising. You can't fit a "full-size" keyboard in a 11 inch by definition alone.

Apple has world class trackpads. But that doesn't make it anymore not-a-netbook as much as it makes Apple just a producer of great trackpads? Pretty sure it has better trackpads than a lot of PC notebooks.

Screen resolution is great, but screen size is not so.

Aluminum body? Wait what? What's that got to do with anything? And OS X?

Anyway, the X220 has a full fledged SB processor, a "full size keyboard", a usable trackpad with the mouse nipple thing, and IPS screen, nd a roll cage. So we're basically just listing qualities now, not really saying anything. Another "glorified" netbook, but done right. The base 13 MBA looks like a real good alternative though.

Anyway, I still don't think the base 11" is suitable as a primary computer. Screen size (I don't care how epic such a resolution is, physical size matters), processing power, lack of storage/memory, I just don't think that's practical.

 

The screen size is small for a primary computer, but in every other way it's fine. The Sandy Bridge ULVs in the MBA are faster than last year's Pro models, 4GB memory and 256GB SSD are enough for most people, and the MBA 11 has the same keyboard as the MBA 13 and the same size keyboard as the MBPs (the MBPs have slightly more key travel than the two MBAs).

And since when is the X220 a glorified netbook? Netbooks generally have 10" 1024x600 screens, Atom processors, max of 2GB memory, Windows Starter, 5400 rpm HDDs, and are built as cheaply as possible.

 

Ssd alone make air fazter at pretty much everything you do. Portability is ultimate advantage, screen res -- there you go 3 advantages alrdy. and battery isnt much worse. Not saying mbp is bad or Anything.

Just because its newer in fact does mean it has better value and packs more for the bucks.

 

You might want to use the quote feature in the future. Again, just because something is newer doesn't automatically make it better or even "pack more for the bucks." That is a terrible assumption and it should never be used. Acer just came out with a new Pentium desktop for $300. Its specs absolutely suck (it is still using the old Intel X4500 IGP) but I guess that doesn't matter because it is newer and that automatically makes it a better value.

And? True netbooks either pack an Intel Atom processor (which is a good 300% slower than an SB i5) or an AMD APU (depending on the model, it can be about as good as a lower end i5 from last generation). So a ULV i5 is still an i5 and a processor that is more powerful than what is in netbooks. So I guess that means every ultra portable on the market running a ULV processor is automatically a netbook then?

Nobody is even bringing that up but it too is also not a glorified netbook. I think you need to lookup what true glorified netbooks have in them and compare those specs to ultra portable notebooks. True glorified netbooks still can't compete with ultra portables and the only things the two share are display size and maybe, maybe, maybe display resolution. Other than that, true glorified netbooks are still packing netbook hardware (it is top end but still netbook hardware) and their performance is undeniably still in netbook territory whereas modern ultra portables (such as the MBA or X220) are having no issues keeping up with notebooks. Hell, the 13" MBA with just the i5 processor is more powerful (looking at all around average performance, not just at graphics) than last year's 17" MBP. So I guess that makes last year 17" MBP just a glorified netbook too?

 

Compared to a spectacularly mediocre Atom processor the Air ships with a veritable Cray supercomputer. That's the only relevant comparison here.

Are you weaseling out of this because it doesn't have a numpad? A missing numpad? Seriously? The keys aren't shrunk down in size compared to Apple's other keyboards. That makes them full-size by definition.

Oh, but it does. Feel free to find a netbook that ships with anything close to what the Air has. They all have tiny, sad excuses for input devices.

My point is that it's not a flimsy plastic POS that ships with a cutdown version of an operating system you'd get if you bought a more expensive laptops. Which is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike the experience of buying a netbook.

Those are laptop specs, yes. The X220 is most definitely not a netbook. I'm slightly puzzled as to what your point is supposed to be here. Did you just intentionally shoot down your own argument?

I tend to agree (depending on the user in question). The smallest Air is mainly a 2nd computer or one for road warriors.

IHBT. IHL. HAND?

 

Having a great trackpad is not really a quality of a non-netbook. You're going to find many PC notebooks with crappier trackpads, does that make them netbooks?

As for materials, you get what you pay for. Apple has never followed the PC niche pricing, and has a history of creating it's own.

The MBA is no more a notebook than it is a netbook. Call it what you will, a severely underpowered subnotebook or a glorified netbook. Quite frankly, the euphemism is stronger in the latter.

 

How exactly is the MacBook Air a severely underpowered subnotebook?

 

He obviously has no clue what he's talking about.

I just sold my i5 13" MBP and not looking back. The difference in speed between the MBP and this 13" MBA is negligible, I honestly don't notice a difference at all, and my 13" MBP had 8GB and a SSD in it - without the SSD the MBP will be significantly slower. IMHO if that little bit of extra speed matters to you, you bought the wrong computer. Other than the $100 difference in price, there's no point in buying the 13" MBP. The extra screen real-estate more than makes up for that bit of difference in speed and the lack of optical drive which I'd never used anyway.

Xbench results from my MBA and MBP. I was shuffling RAM around with my Mac mini so the MBP had 6GB at the time.

2011 13" Macbook Air (base i5 with 4GB RAM and 128GB SSD):
Results 203.86
System Info
Xbench Version 1.3
System Version 10.7 (11A2063)
Physical RAM 4096 MB
Model MacBookAir4,2
Drive Type APPLE SSD SM128C
CPU Test 196.86
GCD Loop 266.82 14.06 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 172.94 4.11 Gflop/sec
vecLib FFT 121.01 3.99 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 396.02 68.96 Mops/sec
Memory Test 502.21
System 499.14
Allocate 1883.73 6.92 Malloc/sec
Fill 351.03 17067.83 MB/sec
Copy 380.12 7851.25 MB/sec
Stream 505.31
Copy 492.14 10164.93 MB/sec
Scale 488.61 10094.59 MB/sec
Add 534.11 11377.60 MB/sec
Triad 508.90 10886.64 MB/sec
Quartz Graphics Test 321.39
Line 302.50 20.14 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 408.70 122.02 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 307.50 25.07 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 274.68 6.93 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 343.36 21.48 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 127.82
Spinning Squares 127.82 162.15 frames/sec
User Interface Test 116.59
Elements 116.59 535.11 refresh/sec
Disk Test 350.95
Sequential 219.30
Uncached Write 336.46 206.58 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 343.61 194.41 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 99.43 29.10 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 434.72 218.49 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 878.12
Uncached Write 774.96 82.04 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 623.32 199.55 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 1841.90 13.05 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 894.81 166.04 MB/sec [256K blocks]

2011 13" Macbook Pro (base i5 with Sandforce SSD and 6GB RAM):
Results 216.58
System Info
Xbench Version 1.3
System Version 10.7 (11A511)
Physical RAM 6144 MB
Model MacBookPro8,1
Drive Type SSD G2 series 64GB
CPU Test 220.86
GCD Loop 290.26 15.30 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 193.05 4.59 Gflop/sec
vecLib FFT 139.30 4.60 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 433.37 75.46 Mops/sec
Memory Test 415.52
System 517.02
Allocate 2128.02 7.81 Malloc/sec
Fill 327.96 15946.13 MB/sec
Copy 437.95 9045.58 MB/sec
Stream 347.33
Copy 337.25 6965.84 MB/sec
Scale 332.46 6868.52 MB/sec
Add 363.85 7750.78 MB/sec
Triad 357.80 7654.13 MB/sec
Quartz Graphics Test 358.30
Line 335.70 22.35 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 463.86 138.49 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 348.78 28.43 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 302.31 7.62 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 378.06 23.65 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 146.92
Spinning Squares 146.92 186.38 frames/sec
User Interface Test 132.47
Elements 132.47 607.96 refresh/sec
Disk Test 276.02
Sequential 165.56
Uncached Write 223.87 137.45 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 198.84 112.50 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 84.21 24.64 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 358.55 180.21 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 829.28
Uncached Write 1384.96 146.61 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 393.34 125.92 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 2786.35 19.75 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 833.21 154.61 MB/sec [256K blocks]

 

A rose by any other name, folks. I've heard some people (including Engadget) call the fire-breathing Alienware M11x a "netbook" because it's 11" with no optical drive, even though it packs an i7 and a GT540M. "Netbook" is just a word; it doesn't make a computer any more or less than the computer already is.

 

Netbook doesn't simply mean small notebook computer. Netbook refers to a particular class of computer designed to be a very cheap, very portable internet appliance and not a general purpose notebook (hence the name "net" book). They aren't just small in size. In fact, physical size is probably one of the least relevant attributes. What matters is what you can use it for.

 

The MBP base 13 isn't exactly a powerhouse either. I don't see what you're trying to say here. i5 + onboard is borderline bare minimum, and nowhere near the likes of Vaio Z/SA, Acer 3830TG, Asus U36SD, etc etc. To reiterate: the MBA is an underpowered subnotebook.

Size is DEFINITELY a major factor in what constitutes a netbook, not quite sure what you're on. Why are we arguing semantics? A subnotebook is a "lesser" notebook, can it be more vague?

It's one of the first entries into the new "ultrabook" category, which is really just a "lesser" subnotebook with more portability. It's not exactly king here either; the Z is. How is it not at least an underpowered subnotebook if it's barely average in the ultrabook category? In any case, as netbooks get more and more powerful, the two terms would ultimately converge anyway to mean the same thing; been happening in technology for the past two decades -- RAM/memory, interchangeable now, wasn't always the case. But again, why argue semantics?

If you want to get technical, anyway you look at it the CPU is 25-40% weaker than an entry level i5, the GPU is slower than the IGP on the entry i5 (which in itself is already a pathetic performer). It's got lesser RAM too, but we'll let it slide. It relies on the SSD, and I'm pretty sure we're all aware that SSDs are great for every day use.

But wait, it doesn't quite end there. The base 11 comes with a whopping 64 GB of storage. What does that mean? Well, half the chips, half the bandwidth, usually SATA II (but irrelevant since it's never bottlenecking either formats), so you're getting a lesser SSD too. Sequential writes might be slower than HDDs, but we'll let that slide too. But 64 gb single drive is simply NOT suitable for a main computer.

And 11 inches for a screen is simply a strain on the eyes, regardless of resolution.

@andy: Nice numbers. Do note I very much like the MBA 13". I'm clearly referring to the base MBA 11 as stated by the OP, which I've reiterated many times now.

 

The MBA 11 and MBA 13 can be equipped the same - same processor, same memory, same SSD. Same power except in a smaller package.

And subnotebook has traditionally meant smaller notebook, not necessarily lesser notebook. There have been many 12" and 13" ultraportables/subnotebooks which were/are more powerful than many mainstream 15" notebooks.

By your definition, any small notebook that wasn't recently purchased with a full voltage Sandy Bridge i5 or better is a netbook.
That makes a lot of sense.

 

So that "same processor, same memory, same SSD" is entirely moot.

I never said that. When have I ever mentioned netbook = subnotebook? However I DO believe that netbooks are a subset of subnotebooks, but that's a square-rectangle relationship. All the AMD chipped 6250m notebooks are subnotebooks though.

Anyway, it's a gray line, always has been, always will be. You're putting words in my mouth again. Don't do that.

Cheers mate.

 

Even this one?

Asus K53U

If so, I give up.

EDIT: The point I'm making here is that capability is not directly dependent on size. That's about it. And you're right, it's not worth arguing this much about semantics.

 

You know what I mean. Is there any point in this? You're pride. I get it, but really?

Do you disagree and care to argue that the base MBA 11 IS suitable for a full time computer?

 

Sorry for not quoting i am writing from iphone this week -)

I am basically trying to make few points
1. Air is better value for money. In regards with apple newer usually DOES mean better - every new line cost roughly the same but is more powerful. Even though ofc u cant directly compare air to mbp due to form factor.
2. Air will be faster in your everyday tasks most likely due to ssd
3. 11 is awful for main pc so if you choose strictly.between two get mbp

Its also quite fun when people r saying that 11 is ok due to higher res. Fewyears ago 1280 on 17 was.considered ok. How low can you go? "1800x on 10 inch is almost as comfortable as on 24 incher"?

 

Not really, but that's OK. Best we just let it go.

Have you seen a VAIO Z?

1366x768 is actually the standard resolution for an 11.6" panel. I think every 11.6" laptop on the market uses that resolution. And the dot pitch is about the same as the MBA 13 and iPad.

I can't even imagine a 17" with 1280x800. How pointless. I had 1024x768 on my low end 12" iBook way back in 2001, and my current "desktop" computer is a Sony with 1920x1080 on a 16.4".

The Sony VAIO P and Z stretch the limit. The 1080p display on the Z is 170 DPI, compared to a "lowly" 128 DPI for the MBA 13 and 135 DPI for all the 11.6" laptops. The Z is probably overkill, but it's nothing compared to a smartphone, and with font scaling it's not hard to view.

I really like the screen on the MBA 13. It's 16x10, which I greatly prefer. The resolution is nice and provides adequate vertical real estate for getting work done. And it's anti-glare. It would be even better if they make one with a wide color gamut.

 

That is definitely the pot calling the kettle black. There was only one person here (you) who brought up the ideology that the 11" MBA was a glorified netbook when in fact it isn't. The term netbook should never, ever, ever, ever, ever be used to describe a MBA or any other machine just because it is small. There are many factors that go into actual netbooks. Size is one of those factors but it is only part of the equation that you are still ignoring.

The baseline 11" MBA would be powerful enough to use as a full time computer for many, many people out there. Not everyone needs a quad-core machine with dedicated graphics. In fact, the vast majority of people use computers for very few things: surfing the internet, media consumption, and office productivity. All of that can be done with ease on a baseline 11" MBA. So yes, it is suitable for a full time computer depending on the user.

 

But a lot of people use the term "netbook" to refer to size and no optical drive, not to refer to CPU power or anything like that. Here are four different authors calling the Alienware M11x (the current generation is comparably powerful to a 15" MBP) a netbook. Actually, the last link is stating that Alienware itself calls the M11x a netbook.

Alienware's M11x netbook gets a base price: $799 -- Engadget

Maximum PC | Alienware M11x Netbook Sports Switchable Graphics

Jim Louderback: CES 2010: -Kicking Alienware M11x Netbook Just 4 Pounds

The Alienware M11x netbook gets priced, dated and detailed | TechCrunch

 

Right, but it is a glorified netbook. The 11 Samsung 9's a glorified netbook as well.

Pricing's the only thing keeping SB ULV processors/a premium screen away from "traditional" netbooks.

You neglected a few pretty important factors: 2 USB slots, 64 GB SSD, 11 inch screen, lack of optical drive (which can be remedied for 50% of the USB i/o). Is the CPU good enough? Probably. Everything else? Not really.

Suitable for full time?

 

In all fairness, Apple laptops all the way up to the 17" MBP only have two USB slots (which is at least one short of what I'd like to see in a laptop). So the two USB slots shouldn't weigh against the MBA when comparing the MBA to other Apple laptops.

Otherwise I agree with you. I wouldn't want to use an 11", small-SSD-only, no-optical-drive machine as my primary machine.

 

Yeah, but I'm not comparing it Apple's either, just to the term "full time machine" in general. While I'm against the base 11 MBA the whole time, I'm not exactly for the base 13 MBP either (albeit for a slightly difference reason... being the X220 is just superior in just about everyway).

You can get USB hubs for ~$10. But a MBA where you're carrying a hub, an external hard drive, an external optical drive really defeats the point of a MBA. And let's not forget a monitor either.

Not really talking about raw computational power but rather practicality. While the ULV processors are quite a bit weaker than than full voltage counterparts, it's more than enough for the general user, but that means very little on the grander scheme of things. My smartphone (Galaxy S2) has enough power for the average user, 1.2 ghz dual core, 32gb flash storage (upgradeable all the way to 48), 1080p video output, bluetooth keyboard/mouse, etc. But it's not practical to be used as a full time machine.

 

Ah, some more hypocrisy for us?

You also forgot about their performance as a ULV SB processor greatly outperforms ANY Intel Atom on the market along with the AMD APU's that are being put in premium netbooks.

I left those out because they aren't really that important for the common user. Who cares if it has only 2 USB ports if most people use USB just to sync their single iPod? 64GB of storage is also enough especially when most people think a 10GB iTunes library is huge and we all know that documents and spreadsheets take up little space. My grandparents and Mom are actually pretty good representations of common computer users. My grandparents have a Core 2 Quad Dell desktop with a Blu-ray drive, 8GB of RAM, and a 1TB hard drive. In the two years of owning that desktop, they have filled the hard drive by another 1GB. My Mom's iTunes library (including apps, music, and videos) can fit on her 16GB iPad 2 with about 5GB to spare.

So yes, I still stand by what I said in that the baseline 11" MBA can easily be used as a primary system for an average user. It more than powerful enough, 64GB of storage is going to be plenty, they will really only use one or two USB ports anyway, and they might like the small display size since it allows them to put the computer right on their laps (or hook it up to an external display). Again, it may not be something that you would like but that doesn't mean that the average person can't use it without reaching the full potential of the machine. Hell, I know people that are using true netbooks (some even with a single-core Atom processor) as primary systems and they are more than getting by. I did that for 6 months of my life in 2009 and, while I didn't like it, I was OK. Granted I had my iTunes library on an external hard drive and I hooked my netbook up to an external display a smuch as possible but I know plenty of other people who are fine with a 10" display.

 

What are premium netbooks? Oh, you mean the Samsung 9. What separates these two from the pack? Pricing mostly. And as a result of pricing, you get a premium screen, more expensive processor, and better materials. "Glorified". Ultrabooks. Semantics.

I can think of a few uses for the USB -- iPod, iPhone, mouse, optical drive (which OP will be using), external hard drive, printer, USB flash drive, digital cameras, controllers/gamepads.

64 GB means ~45 GB of usable hard drive space. And that's pretty much with nothing installed.

Would your grandparents prefer the MBA 11 over a full sized laptop? My dad loves lower resolutions/bigger screens; productivity doesn't mean a thing to him if he can't read the damn text.

On the flip side, if you can get away with JUST using the MBA, then you too can get away with just using a $300 netbook. And you're also not the average user. Certainly not one who frequents a forum like this.

 

Dell themselves correctly label it a (gaming) laptop. Citing four cases where people incorrectly use a term doesn't change its meaning.

Desperate attempts at breathing life into a stagnating market segment that is in the decline because of the onslaught of devices like the iPad? Underpowered and pricy? A misnomer? I give up.

I don't know, man. $300 sounds kind of expensive and premium to me. I'd say you can get away with buying one of those plastic things with a hand crank and since color is just glorified monochrome, you could also totally get away with using a black and white screen. Savings abound!

 

How deep do you plan to make this hole you're digging?

A $300 netbook doesn't have enough screen resolution to do MS Office or photo editing and even web browsing is difficult. The 10" size results in undersized keys that are difficult to type on. The Atom processor is only 32-bit and isn't powerful enough to do many ordinary computing tasks - even Flash browsing can be a problem let alone converting audio & video or editing large photos. It's hard limited by the Atom architecture to 2GB of slow memory. There's no fast IO. It can't stream HD video, or play any games. And Windows Starter is severely gimped: 3 app limit, no customization, no Aero glass, no user switching, no 64-bit, no external monitor support, no DVD playback, no Windows Media Center, and no ability to stream media to another device.

That's why we use the term "netbook" to differentiate them from normal computers that are simply small in size.

 

Quoting out of context is the best kind of quote.

 

That's right.

 

You neither read the rest of my post or the fourth link. At the time Dell release the M11x R1, DELL THEMSELVES called it a netbook. Nowadays they don't, but they did with the R1

 

Didn't the R1 have an option for a dinky Pentium processor when it first came out? Either way, they have obviously changed their labeling of the M11x since it is about as far from being a netbook as the 11" MBA or even the 17" MBP.

As for the whole hypocrisy ego thing that keeps coming up, I am done. Call the 11" MBA what you want, I don't give a crap anymore. Just know that the term "netbook" can either be used correctly or it can be thrown around. Might as well start calling the 11" MBA a metal banana and the 13" MBA a pineapple while the MBP line is a series of steaks at varying sizes and the Samsung 9 series (along with the other notebooks that were mislabeled as netbooks) are nothing more than pallets of paper with sunscreen on them. Yeah, makes about as much sense as calling the 11" MBA a glorified netbook.

 

Review Asus Eee PC 1215N Netbook - Notebookcheck.net Reviews

And that's a year old.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-HP-Pavilion-dm1-3180eg-Netbook.49230.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Lenovo-IdeaPad-S12-ION-Netbook.25511.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Samsung-N510-Ion-Netbook.21362.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Asus-Eee-PC-1215B-Netbook.55843.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Asus-Eee-PC-1215T-Netbook.41488.0.html

EDIT: You know, it's weird, it's almost hard to find a "netbook" utilizing starter still. Stuck in 2009? Seems everything is utilizing Win7. The I/Os? Seems like all the netbooks actually have the MBA beat there, most of them offering 3 USB + HDMI + VGA + ethernet. And media card reader. DDR3 is pretty common as well, I'd even say it's the norm. 1366 x 768 resolution isn't exactly rare either.

64-bit, external monitor (a la VGA or HDMI) yada yada all there.

In any case, the MBA has one advantage, which is almost a misnomer in itself: processing power and... gaming. Didn't you say those were irrelevant points?

Netbook or subnotebook?

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Lenovo-ThinkPad-Edge-11-K345-Subnotebook.58326.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-E125-303522U-Laptop-Review.58753.0.html

MBA is either a glorified netbook or an underpowered subnotebook. Pick your poison.

 

I didn't read the fourth link, no. I still see nothing that indicates that Dell has used that term.

Looking at slides shown on the Chinese source of the source of the source of your fourth link (yes, that's how Techcrunch rolls), it looks like Dell called it "one of a kind" merely comparing it to both netbooks and ultraportables.

 

nVidia ION machines with WXGA screens are in a grey area about half way between a "netbook" and a "notebook". But since they are based on the Atom platform, most people lump them in with netbooks.

Starter is Win 7. Starter is one of the primary identifying features of a netbook. The reason why you're having trouble finding netbooks with Starter is because you don't know what a netbook is (if that wasn't obvious enough from this thread).

I assume you're in the US. See this for an example list of netbooks you can buy:

Best Buy netbooks

No, I didn't. I said that's one of the things that distinguish it from a netbook.

Subnotebook.

 

So by your definition, it must be horribly weak and cheap and must abide only by your technical specifications for it to be a netbook? Who decides if it has enough power/is too weak? You? How convenient. I don't think that's how it works though.

Netbooks are fully capable of utilizing full installs of Win7. Do a search. Just because a Mac doesn't come equipped with a windows OS doesn't make it any less of a PC.

So power IS a criteria. But power is also a subjective criteria. Everything is getting more and more powerful, do you think netbook manufacturers are saying, "well this computer CAN support external monitors, but we definitely shouldn't do that because it wouldn't make it a netbook anymore!" Yeah, no. They're going to push their hardware. It's already evident. Remember when cellphones use to be... phones?

Let me know when your Delorean hits 88.

So it's an underpowered subnotebook? I said that already.