MBA or MBP?

I thought MS dropped that limitation.

 

Yeah. It has plenty of artificial limitations, but that isn't one of them.

Windows 7 Starter: top questions - Microsoft Windows

 

Yes, netbooks are horribly weak and cheap. I didn't invent the netbook, I'm only stating what they are. The name and basic concept came from the Psion netBook, but the market niche was established much later when Asus came out with their Eee PC.

Netbooks are designed to be very cheap, very portable computers mainly for checking emails and browsing the web on the go. Price is a very important factor, at least as important as size, because they were competing more with high end smartphones than laptop computers. They were originally intended for developing countries, but they caught on as a fad and a lot of sales were due to novelty more than necessity.

Anyway, the netbook is passé now because of the iPad.

Intel and Microsoft have intentionally limited the capabilities of the netbook platform so that it doesn't compete directly with notebook computers. The Intel Atom line is much cheaper than Intel's Core i line and Win 7 Starter is much cheaper than other Windows editions. They accept low margins on netbook sales only because netbooks aren't capable of performing all the functions expected of general purpose notebooks. The manufacturers could put Windows 7 Home Premium on them, make them with larger WXGA screens, faster processors, more memory, HD video capabilities, etc. But then they wouldn't be netbooks and they wouldn't cost $300.

It's faster than pretty much all other subnotebooks on the market except the VAIO Z and faster than a lot of full size notebooks too. For example, the review at Engadget ran PCMark Vantage in Boot Camp and got a score of 9484. Also see the results in the AnandTech review.

Thanks for the correction.

 

PCMark is SSD driven. I'm sure you knew that.

It's "slower" than every full voltage SB subnotebook (just about all of them...). A 64 GB is about ~$100. Not sure why you're arguing for performance efficiency on a Mac.

 

PCMark Vantage does depend a lot on disk performance, but so does actual computer performance.
Besides, it's not just the disk performance. Follow the AnandTech link and look at the PCMark 7 results. The Storage subscore is high as expected. But the other subscores are quite high too, including Computation.

And just which subnotebooks do you think are faster? I know the VAIO Z, but haven't seen any others. And no, a MBP 13 is not a subnotebook, that's a different class of machine.

 

I think Cnet's guide would come in handy here as it shows that the 11" MBA is an ultra portable notebook while the 13" MBA is a thin and light notebook. It also shows other so called "glorified netbooks," such as the Samsung Series 9, in the thing and light notebook category as well. Notice that the work netbook is not used to describe any of those notebooks in their guides. Then again, I don't know if I can trust someone who purchased a Mac to run Windows as their primary OS... OK, that part was a joke, kind of, but I was also serious, kind of.

 

Samsung 9 isn't a "glorified netbook", I don't run Windows as my primary OS, and what the hell does that matter anyway?

 

I know you aren't calling the Samsung 9 a glorified netbook but 2hvy4grvty (the person you and I have been going back and forth with) is. They also started a thread indicating that they plan on using Windows as their primary OS on their Mac.

 

Oh, sorry. Thought that was referring to me. I guess I've lost patience with this argument and it's time for me to throw in the towel.

 

lets keep this simple:

netbook

CPU: atom or athlon neo or brazos (e series)
GPU: it doesnt matter
HDD: it doesnt matter
OS: By definition from MS, its starter, not that it reflects anyway
Screen Size: up to 12'' (although there are several companies selling E350 processors on 15'')

Notebook
CPU: anything non atom
GPU: it doesnt matter
HDD: it doesnt matter
Screen Size: it doesnt matter

SubNotebook
CPU: anything non atom
GPU: it doesnt matter
HDD: it doesnt matter
Screen Size: up to 13''

If we go by what 2hvy4grvty is trying to saying, HP started selling netbooks for their enterprise class hardware quite a while ago with the 25XXp series, the X series from lenovo are also netbooks, specially the tablets, the X201 and the x220 are one of the only in the series to be packed with full voltage processors, if Im not mistaken.

Also any notebook that packs a ULV is a netbook? the performance difference from a cpu standpoint is far too great

 

Nope, I said it was a very subjective thing. The entire classification is one giant gray area. Obviously you haven't done a terribly good job classifying it either.

I mentioned size being a big factor, which it is, I also mentioned power is a big factor, which it is, but how much power/whatever size is completely a subjective matter.

M11x? Probably subnotebook.
X220? Probably subnotebook.

 

If you ask me, "netbook" is like "sports car." Good luck finding an objective, universally-accepted definition. Both are intangible words that have no objective definition besides their ordinary usage, which can differ dramatically from year to year and from group to group.

The word "hydrogen" has an inflexible definition that we can all agree upon. The word "sports car" does not. "Netbook" is a whole more like "sports car" than "hydrogen."

 

its obvious that I did, its also obvious why you couldnt grasp it

the m11x was never a netbook, its a subnotebook or a notebook.

being as I said, subnotebooks are a subgenre of notebooks. much like netbooks are, although we try to maintain the netbook from notebook as didnt as possible, however still maintaining some tie in

 

In my mind netbook is smth terribly underpowered but cheap and portable. Subnotebook is just a small notebook like m11x. Neither should be more then 12 inch. 13 incher is a notebook alrdy be it fast or slow.

So air 11 is sub, air 13 and mbp 13 are notebooks.

 

That's fine. Base MBA is still an underpowered, undersized subnotebook. Or a glorified netbook.

Using aforementioned analogy, would you guys be mad if I called the Ferrari a glorified sports car? Because you're going through all the technicalities of something that has no concrete definition to begin with.

Some guy here just tried to pass off the Atom processor thing as a "requirement". We're literally passing opinions/generalizations off as facts now are we? The size thing? Another generality. There are 15 inch netbooks. Two years ago, netbooks weren't suppose to have dual cores, now they do. So what? There can more powerful netbooks. There can be expensive netbooks. What you guys are doing is the equivalent of racial profiling.

I still prefer glorified netbook. Anyone else want a crack at convincing me otherwise?

Or does anyone want to give me the criteria for a desktop replacement? What about a multimedia notebook? Or portable laptop? Quality materials? Anyone?

You can't possibly be that dense to even begin suggesting concrete defined things for such broad, casual categorizations.

What is this I don't even.

 

Car analogies and namedropping racism? This thread just gets better and better!

That reminds me...

Does anyone know the origin of the word netbook? I was curious and looked it up in a dictionary. It comes from the German word 'Netzbuch' meaning a book made of Netz and was originally a ledger of sorts for political purposes. The Germans don't really use that word today for good reason.

 

I am thunking that netbook is formed from the word InterNET. So basically netbook is something that is capable of internet browsing. Its not an ipad however, hense the word "book" in it.

You can call air 11 what you like, however since its capable of running lets zay starcraft 2 on it its not terribly underpowered so i consider it a sub.

We can create categories as we please though judging by different factors. For example you can hardly say m11x is sub something since it packs more gpu power then mos normal notebooks.

Tldr : rather pointless discussion.

 

The definiton of netbook is quite clear, and we can use the industry or the MS one. If you are too thick to think that a ULV cpu is a netbook, there is something wrong, as I said the HP in their 25XXp series, the lenovo X series (aside the X220 and the X201, since the X220t and the X201t uses a ulv chip too), the asus timelinex series, the vostro v130, all of those are netbooks? and why suddenly when you up the processor in the same lineup it stop being a netbook?

The storage options doesnt matter, since the first eepc and some subsequent models where equipped with a ssd.

So in the end what for you makes a netbook? Since from all this discussion the only thing that I could gather is that if it has a ULV chip, sometimes its a netbook, but it could be a subnotebook. So we are up to you to define what is a netbook, teach us them.

Them we are also going to be screwed when the ultrabooks, come out. or rather they have already come out.

 

I think I am going to quote some familiar words in this regard:

Care to throw some my hypocrisy at us or are you done trying to convince yourself that the 11" MBA is some type of netbook?

 

You appear to have cracked the case wide open !!!

 

Very convincing arguments. However, I must disagree.

Nah. You can call it what you will.

I can call the MBP a DTR. So what?

I can call the MBP thin and light and portable. So what?

Graphic designers use gaming laptops. So what?

Does it really offend you that much?

 

ignorance aint a bliss

 

Of course "netbook" comes from the internet. But that doesn't necessarily mean "a computer that's really just meant for internet browsing." Otherwise, we'd use the the term to refer to base-model 15" Inspirons and the like.

When the term came around, I thought it came in part from the fact that you were reliant on the internet to download programs and put content on the computer because you didn't have an optical drive. A netbook, as I understood the term when the term first came about, was a computer so small it didn't have an optical drive. And I'm not alone in this. A lot of people referred to the first-gen M11x as a gaming netbook. Just search "M11x netbook" and you'll have a lot more hits than the first four I provided. It was a "netbook" because you were dependent on Steam and such internet services to buy your games, instead of buying them on optical discs.

Since then, "netbook" has become an epithet. I think the term kind of became an epithet when tablets became the latest cool, hip thing. But for a while, "netbooks" were cool, and reviewers and owners didn't shy away from the term for machines like the M11x.

The term is malleable, as any term that's only defined by common usage is. But just because it has "net" in it doesn't mean it's, by definition, a computer so underpowered it can't do anything besides internet browsing.

 

If you guys were to quote me, I did mention "glorified netbook", I don't see how you can just drop a pretty important adjective and go on proclaiming end of the world status.

Anyway, in the subnotebook category, it would be underpowered.

Ultrabook though? I like that. So it'll have to compete with this:

ASUS outs UX21 ultrathin laptop with up to Core i7 CPUs (video hands-on!) -- Engadget

Sounds about right. Ultrabooks - a category Intel pulled entirely from thin air, to give their ULV processors more love. That's what you do when you don't want the demeaning linger of the word "netbook", just create your own category. We've been doing it for years. Apple should just label their MBP line the shishkabooks, that way they won't be compared to their windows counterparts because there won't be any! Then they can market it as the cheapest shishkabooks in the world! Just like Dell markets their 15z as the "world's thinnest PC", because in their eyes, a MBP is NOT a PC. Should we correct Dell?

Nomenclature is a great thing, because it's subjective. I see the MBA as a cup half full. If you prefer half empty, that's your call.

But on another issue, the "full size" keyboard thing. I have a keyboard skin for my MBP, which fits the 13s and the 17s, it doesn't however, fit on my buddy's MBA 11.

Yellow light? Speed up, or slow down...

 

ultrabook concept is based not on the use of ULV chips, and thats what intel announced. The idea is to use ivy bridge, but as a stop gag product, they are going to be released on the sandy bridge arch. Why?

The idea of ultrabook is to have enough power on the go, and when you are at home/workplace you can have full power while on it, not limited by the clocks, but by the TDP.

A variable TDP chip would be required to do that.

That is also one of the reasons for thunderbolt, to connect high I/O peripherals to do what a desktop do, to have the same expandability as a desktop.

Currently with the possibility of adding full TDP processors on subnotebooks, created a possibility of market exploration, thus the ultrabook came into place. And sincerely thats where the future might lay.

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One thing that never had a real definition is the market of subnotebooks, due to the only requirement being the screen size.

DTR = desktop replacement, anything that has enough power to do a certain task is a DTR, this is usually only reserved to screen sizes of 15-18. But some people go on and call the vaio Z a DTR, only for sale purpose.

Dont go confusing the gray area with clear cut things.

Why you cant look at the definition of netbook, or the requirements for windows starter (since its where MS defined what is a netbook), and you cant even teach us what it is, all this is something beyond belief.

So do tell me why there is a consistent move to separate netbooks from notebooks?

Solve this thing for me too, I can call the x220t a tablet (whence the t), while ipad is also a tablet, oh boy this is going to be though for you

 

I don't get it, what's the point of sprinkling your posts full of ad hominem?

 

try because there is only one here that cant understand notebook concepts nor market schemes, thats you. if the posts are a reference to you, as most here are, its a reflection of what you said.

BTW my posts are far from what can be considered attacks as per ToS.

 

I have no idea what you just said, but agree to disagree.

 

So what is a laptop?

I'm kidding.

 

Didn't bother to read the thread, but ...

MBP > MBA