MBP i5 vs i7

I am looking into purchasing a Macbook Pro and I was looking at the 2.53 i5 and the 2.66 i7. Looking at past threads, the better CPU should result in around 10% more performance. How about the extra VRAM in the GPU? Will that make an increased impact on graphics heavy applications (not games though, but like movie editing/production/graphics work)? Also I heard that the i5's only have 6 GB max RAM while the i7 has 8 GB. This lappy will be mines to use for at least the next 4 years and I do not want it to become obsolete. I was thinking of doing an upgrade after 2.5 or 3 years to 8 GB, but I am afraid 6 GB would not be enough.

Furthermore, how does the i7 over the i5 affect 1. battery life and 2. heat

P.S. I was thinking of using an SSD as my primary hard drive and just using a large external for storage. Should I upgrade to the SSD when I buy, or should I get the large stock HDD, get an enclosure for about 15 bucks, buy an SSD and put that in and use the stock HDD in the enclosure? Would this save money/be better at all? If I upgrade to an SSD, I would have to buy another external hard drive anyway.

 

I wholeheartedly recommend the i5. Cooler (marginally), not noticeably faster, still has TurboBoost, and MOST importantly.... it's cheaper. The i7 is still a dual core, just like the i5, and both are hyperthreaded, so 4 threads are present. And if in fact the RAM is limited, which I don't think it is, it's purely firmware, because the HW is perfectly capable of handling 8GB.

An OEM SSD is a great option if money is no object. Although, I'd say get the HDD, and upgrade it yourself to an Intel SSD.

 

as the owner of an i7-based machine: get the i5 unless you run tasks that regularly tax your CPU 100%.

as in, video encoding, decoding, or transcoding. unless you find an i7-based system on sale somewhere, that money is better spent on an SSD.

 

Would you say the same thing for the 2.4 vs the 2.53 i5s?

 

review magazines have, yes.

I would expect the speed differences in every-day tasks to be measured in fractions of seconds. but it depends on your usage.

 

Okay money might be sort of an issue for me, but lets pretend for a second that it is not. How you would compare the i5 and i7 regarding battery life and heat dissipation? Is there any difference?

And is the general consensus that theres no tangible benefit going 2.40 i5 vs 2.66 i7 in the speed department?

Instead of having to open up my Macbook Pro and risk voiding my warranty, I might upgrade to the SSD through Apple and just by a portable external HDD instead.

How valuable is the antiglare screen? I was thinking of just getting the high-res screen because I'm one of the few people I think that doesn't mind glossy screens. I do like the flashiness of the first impression they make. I'm going to use this for college however, and I'm not sure how that environment will change the potential practicality of using an antiglare screen. I also have a 24" matte external monitor. Maybe I just get the high res screen and use the matte monitor for more serious work where the glare would be annoying.

 

You won't void your warranty because of a hard drive install. That's not legitimate. I wouldn't bother with the apple SSDs; they seem to be too expensive for their capacities. Also, don't expect them to be speed demons as they probably are not the most cutting edge SSDs on the market. They will be better than an HDD though.

 

Even comparing the fastest and slowest CPUs of the Core i line will show 0% difference if you're just doing daily tasks and most games, since they will not fully tax the CPU (and thus CPUs typically downclock). I'd advise you to research on SSDs and if you're willing to spend the money, upgrade it yourself. As for the screen, go to the Apple store and check it out since everyone is different (I dislike antiglare/matter screens very much). From your first post, extra GPU memory makes zero difference as well since the GPU is limited by its memory bus way before it can utilize extra memory (for 128-bit cards, anything above 256MB is sufficient). The i5s also support 8GB, not sure where you heard about the 6GB limit because it is false. Though again, unless you have specific applications that you know give low memory errors, you will not need more than 4GB.

 

What third party SSDs do you recommend looking into?

And how forward looking would the 2.40 i5 processor be? Should I expect it to still be running very well for four years? I understand faster things will come out, but I do not want to spend 2000 on a lappy that will be rather obsolete in 2-3 years.

 

Intel G2 160GB SSD.

I love it.

 

Almost the absolute best on the market, excluding SLC drives.

 

This and the OCZ Vertex 2/Agility 2 line.

The Intel is a proven SSD, but the OCZs have new Sandforce controllers that make the Vertex 2 one of the fastest SSDs on the market. The only problem is that the Vertex 2 costs around $345 for 120GB, while you can get the Intel 160GB for around $390.

If you want something for less money, you can get the Intel 80GB for $225 or the Vertex 60GB for about $200.

Here's a review for the Vertex 2:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3681/oczs-vertex-2-special-sauce-sf1200-reviewed

Agility 2:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3667/oczs-agility-2-reviewed-the-first-sf1200-with-mp-firmware

X25-M G2:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2808

 

What about the lack of TRIM? Should I expect this to be a problem regarding the eventual slowdown of the SSD? I've heard that the OCZ Vortex's have something like Garbage Collection or something that function similarly to TRIM?

And how exactly do SSDs improve performance in a computer and for what sort of tasks does it help?

 

Lack of TRIM in OS X?

Hopefully it gets supported soon.

To my knowledge, all of these drives have TRIM ability.

 

Oh sorry, I should've clarified. Yes, I was referring to OS X's lack of support.

 

They have to patch in support at some point soon, I mean every other major OS has it by now.

 

Sandforce doesn't use TRIM and has it's own way of maintaining speed that is above the OS. The biggest determinant in your purchase is budget and if you have any size requirements. As for the CPU, the 2.4GHz will work just as well as any of the faster ones, even in 4 years.

 

I don't know if I can quite afford an SSD right now, especially having to get an external on the side. That would also be quite a hassle to use the SSD and lug around an external for all my media and whatnot. However, I could afford the extra 150 it would cost me for the i7 (I have an education discount). I was thinking of just going with the i7 and waiting out 2-3 years to make a cheaper SSD/RAM upgrade then.

 

No, the SF1200 and SF1500 both support TRIM, as long as they have been updated to the 3.0.5 firmware. This is the vibe that I get from all of the reviews that are out there.

Do you often use your disk drive during day-to-day use? If you don't want to carry around an external, you could always go the Optibay route.

 

I will likely need the disk drive at times, however, and more likely than not, at sporadic times (e.g. when I need to install a program or burn a CD or something like that). It might be inconvenient and not to mention really expensive to go the OptiBay route (doesn't it cost $99 for just the brackets?).

 

You can get a generic one for far less money. The Optibay doesn't offer anything special. It's just a package that includes the brackets and an external case for the disk drive.

 

My son has said that the new MBP i5s are cooler than his old notebook but that they still get warm depending on the application. We're going to work on forcing some applications to use the integrated video to drop temperatures and improve battery life.

For those looking to do a lot of video editing or other high bandwidth, gpu and cpu work, I'd recommend a notebook and an iMac. The latter is larger and can better dissipate heat and you do get a better bang for the buck on the iMac.

 

How would I go about looking for a generic one? I don't know any brands or anything. Just a google search for "hard drives for macbook pro optical drive" or something like that?

And mmoy, I agree with you, but I definitely can't afford to go with both a notebook and desktop at this time, especially for college. Do you have an i7 MBP by any chance? And can you offer any comparisons regarding heat/battery?

 

There was a thread a few days ago with Optibay alternatives in it. I'll post it here in a second.

Edit: Here's a $60 one. It's the interior part only.
http://www.ifixit.com/Apple-Parts/9-5-mm-SATA-Optical-Bay-SATA-Hard-Drive-Enclosure/IF107-080

$20 - http://www.ayagroup.com/product.php?productid=17773&cat=0&page=1

 

I bought an i5 MBP recently for my son and have been asking him about performance, heat, etc. as his previous MBP had lots of heat issues and I was hoping that this new one would resolve them. It is an improvement but I think that we need to do some tweaking. I have a 17 inch MBP Penryn (and another 2008-era MBP) that runs a lot cooler than the 15 inch 2008 MBPs but it can get quite warm for video editing. I can live with the heat - apparently the 17 inch has more room for ventilation.

I have a 27 inch MBP (Core 2 Duo) and that's a great machine - the screen is wonderful. Heat dissipation is better due to that huge piece of metal on the back.

I also have 2 Dell Core i7 desktops. They are both quad-core systems that cost me $580 each back in March 2009. They can get an incredible amount of work done and heat isn't really an issue given that they are traditional desktops. If you have a lot of crunching to do and you don't mind Windows or Linux, and money is an issue, then I'd take a look at a cheap Windows i7 system. I'm coming to the conclusion that laptops have a chronic problem with heat in running high-performance applications and using the right hardware for the right application makes life easier.

 

tmacfan, thanks for the links. I'll check em out. My optical drive is not super necessary for me and I could live without it, but how do people go about install programs that they buy? How would I reinstall Mac OS X, if reason arises. Or Microsoft Office, etc etc. Is there an easier solution that I am not aware of? And is there a way I can take my internal drive and make it an external optical drive (with an enclosure or something?).

And mmoy, I could check that out, but just keeping a desktop around in a college dorm would be a little cumbersome. Heat really isn't the biggest issue in the world for me, but if there was such a big difference between the i7 and i5 MBPs, it might have swayed by decision.

 

Making the ODD into an external drive would be the easiest solution. The Optibay has an external enclosure for the ODD to solve those problems. You could probably find an enclosure for a reasonable price that would accomplish this.

 

The $20 IBM adapter looks interesting, but how does it work? Will it make my CD drive look ugly b/c the adapter itself is off color from the rest of the macbook pro?

And this plus a $13 optical drive enclosure plus a $270 SSD would be pretty affordable actually. I might just go with the 2.4 i5 then. I was thinking of doing an SSD upgrade 1.5-2 years later anyway as soon as things got cheaper. But having this boost for an extra 1.5-2 years probably outweighs the benefit of going i7 over i5 anyway.

 

To be honest, you won't be able to see the off color of the IBM adapter because the disc slot is so small. I wouldn't be too worried about it.

 

Hmm, I'm not sure. I think seeing a bar of black on the side would bother me quite a bit haha. But let's say I shelled out the money for a legit OptiBay drive. Will it keep my hard drive in place? How does this affect my battery life/heat?

Also, do I put the SSD in the optical bay or the standard bay? I know I want to boot from the SSD, but I also don't want the HDD to lose its shock protection and all that in the optical bay. However, I heard there were some problems with suspend/sleep when putting the SSD in the optical bay unless you stopped hibernation.

 

Actually regarding the disc slot thing...I think I was mistaken. I thought I didn't realize it was a disk slot, I thought it was one of those CD drives that popped out, so I thought that whole bar would be black. So basically the IBM adapter will block the slot, right? That wouldn't bother me at all.

 

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. You won't be able to see it at all.

 

So which drive do I put in that slot? The SSD or the HDD? I know I can put whichever one I want, but what is recommended?

 

I would put the SSD in the original HDD spot and the HDD in the ODD slot with the carrier. The ODD slot has some sort of power management that will screw the OS up if you put your boot drive in there.

That's what I've heard, at least.

 

What about shock protection and all that stuff...isn't that a little risky putting my HDD there?

 

There has to be some sort of shock protection in the ODD bay anyway. DVDs and CDs are more susceptible to being damaged by shock than an HDD.

 

Hi all.

I have the same dilemma.

I am considering buying a MBP; in my case I will need my laptop for scientific computing (parallel computing and GPU computing).

I am seriously considering buying a i5 2.4; but having an educational discount the difference in price (between the former and an i7) is reduced to $300 (plus taxes).

Would the extra computing power, provided by the i7, justify the extra money?

Any issue of developing CUDA C code under a GPU with only 256 MB?

I would prefer spending less, but I would not like to regret my choice, since I will use the CPU extensively.

Another point: I will have to develop the majority of my work under .NET (i.e.: windows is a must; I do not like Mono); I am not considering to buy extra RAM (I would rather substitute the internal drive with an SSD);

will I be forced to install BootCamp not to suffer overheating and degradation of performance (due to lack of RAM) or my VirtualBox will do just fine?

At the moment I am developing my stuff using a MBP 2007 SantaRosa (2.2 Core Duo 2; 4GB of RAM) but overheating is standard condition and iTunes sometimes is a luxury (too few available resources), since VirtualBox is always open (Win 7 running).

Any advice highly appreciated. Sorry for the long post.

 

A cheap quad-core i7 desktop with a decent desktop GPU on the net that you could RDP into with a 13 inch MBP would be a much simpler solution.

 

4 GB is plenty for running a virtual machine, like I do. I run VMWare Fusion with a Windows 7 virtual machine, and get good performance on it. On the Win 7 virtual machine, I have VS2008 and VS2010 running and both run very well. In essence, it's the hard-drive that is the limiting factor in virtual machine performance. I swapped the standard drive on my MBP 13" to a 7200RPM drive.

Hope that helps.

 

Mmoy, thanks a lot for your response.

I was considering even that possibility (and even a Macbook Air), but I would prefer a 15'', to be frank: since I always use my laptop so I think a larger display is better.

Anyhow I am also considering that configuration.

Thanks for your insight.

 

dbam987, thank you for your answer. Definitely helpful. Do you think an i5 will be enough, then? I am toward that solution. Still considering even the 13'', as suggested by mmoy; although a 13'' seems too small for many hours of reading and writing (any insight?).

Today I went to the local Apple store and I was impressed by both i5 and i7. Should I stick with the 15'', I will definitely go for the higher definition (definitely worth the extra money).

If of interest to anyone: both CPUs under stress seem to reach 80+ degrees; the i7 seems more responsive (of course), even running several "hulus" together, but I also liked the performance of the i5. After a while they seemed really hot, but not extremely hot; still I could touch even the hotter part with any problem.

 

@dedalo: I'm running the MBP 13" but I do have one tiny bit of buyer's remorse with the screen size. In retrospect, I kind of wish I sprung for the 15" but the $600 difference between the 13" and 15" was a bit steep for me. Other than that, the 13" works wonders for me.

A size comparison that I did at the local Apple Store was to place the 13" on top of the 15" to see the difference. The 15" surprisingly didn't look to much bigger. I'd recommend the 15" simply because of the dedicated graphics and Core-i5 processor. The i5 processor gives a bit better balance in terms of battery life while still giving great performance. The i7 would be useful if you do stuff like video encoding, so in my view the i5 will do very well.

 

I was actually contemplating doing that as I think it would be a lot of fun to build a desktop and have the flexibility to play games in high detail, while still having a laptop that is mobile and gets good battery life.

If the 13" MBP had a higher resolution screen, I would probably end up doing that as opposed to blowing $2000 on a 15" MBP.

 

dbam987 and tmacfan4321, thanks both for the good advices.

I think I will go for the basic MBP 15'' (i5 2.4) plus high res display.

Would you apply for the printer's rebate, being in my shoes? I do not need it 100%, just considering reselling it on Amazon for half the retail price. Do you think it is feasible and quick? Otherwise I will pass on the printer.

Thanks again.

 

In my experience with rebates, they can take weeks to be mailed back. I haven't dealt with HP or Apple for rebates though.

I don't really need the printer or the iPod touch, so I am buying a refurbished unit. The savings are over $300 without tax taken into account.

 

That's a good point.

 

Quick update: I have just proceeded. I decided for an i5 2.4 with HR display (antiglare; I hate glossy) and I have upgraded the HD with a Vertex 2 120 Gb.

If of interest, I will keep you posted about first impressions. It should arrive in a week or so.

I had to make up my mind even quicker, since my old MPB (really a good machine) just decided to give up.

It suffered from broken bezel and the display just completely detached and disconnected somehow. Basically my display is dead and I am writing on an external one.

Again, thanks to all for the valuable advices.

 

Nice dude. It sounds like my future setup with more SSD memory.

 

I assume you mean more SSD capacity.

 

I don't quite see the difference. While the same amount of chips will be there, there will be more memory available for him. Memory is storage, in case you had forgotten what the word means.