MBP retina purchase - wait for Skylake?

Hello,

I'm running a 5 year old thinkpad that is slowly hitting the hardware limits. I'm intending to replace it with a maxed out 13' mabcook pro (retina display) with 16 GB RAM, core i7 processor and 1TB ssd.

However, the skylake processor line (especially the launch of the mobile xeon processor) has thrown a spanner in the works. Would appreciate any inputs on the below questions:
1) Would the xeon processor be a part of the MBP lineup? Considering the TDP, it looks like this could never be in a 13' model. I'm only willing to buy the 15' MBP if the xeon is under the hood
2) Is it worth waiting for the early 2016 MBP's with skylake or buy now? What kind of improvements are we looking at - are they going to be minor improvements or a huge jump in processing power or battery life?

I will have to make a decision in the next 2-3 days, so any input is highly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

 

Don't buy a Macintosh. They are overpriced and underpowered, and even at the specs they have they need to pre-throttle them so they don't overheat and thermal throttle.

I am forced to use them at various companies I consult to, and I make it work, but not without extra cooling, and 2nd and 3rd computers to spread the load over - including servers.

Why do you feel you need to get a Macintosh? Is there a particular software / need you have?

I would recommend getting a PC, like you have, and stay with what you know for now. Switching over to Macintosh, without a PC around, would be tough as well. You won't be as productive on a Mac at first.

If you are doing this for fun, then go for a Skylake refresh / new laptop into 2016, usually announced in Feb, shipping in March.

Please let us know what you end up getting

 

I'll humor you

I have been a PC user for more than 20 years now . Heading over to an MBP because there's nothing else in the PC world which meets my spec. Show me a PC with the following specs (in the order of descending priority) and I'll seriously consider it.

16 GB RAM
weight less than 2 KG / 4.4 lb
13.3 in form factor
8-10 hr battery life
1 TB internal PCIe SSDcore i7 processor

 

v_310, some PC makers have started making ultra-thin laptops to compete with Apple.

Some have tried to make gaming performance thin laptops with lower end Nvidia GPU's in SLI with really forceful cooling, and even those over-heat and can't run at full performance - you need to detune them using XTU to undervolt/underclock / reduce multipliers on them.

The reason Apple does it is because it makes computers for people that have bought in to this image of thin computing, it's a lie, Apple knows it and detunes their hardware selection and sets low limits in the BIOS.

This has been going on for a while now.

The last time I personally bought from the Apple store, I went through every laptop in the line at the time, all the way up to the Macintosh 17", and doing just normal every day work, I was able to get them redhot running full fan speed, and too hot to the touch.

I showed the Apple "geniuses, managers, and techs" and they all couldn't believe it, no other clients come in complaining of that - and I said "it's because they are posers, not doing any real work of any consequence to load up the CPU/GPU", and they all smiled.

We all humor someone, until we get the joke

My daughter edits videos on a Mac, and she spends hours doing it, because it can't perform. I did a sample test on my notebook, and it processed in 1/10 the time. She still wants to use a Mac... go figure.

Get a PC if you want to do real work, get a Mac if you want to look pretty and fit in with the others carrying Mac's. I do both.

 

As I said, show me the PC which meets my specs, otherwise, thanks for trolling .

 

v_310, not at all, go buy a Mac, and enjoy.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to sound rude! As i mentioned, show me a windows laptop with 16 GB ram, 13.3 in screen and < 2kg weight and I'll seriously consider. I've done all my research and most of them top out at 12 GB.

 

v_310, not a problem, if you really don't do a lot of CPU compute, or IO, or GPU intensive stuff, and you are mostly interested in a light / small carry, and don't mind spending big $ - with the nice hold in value for resale later, a Mac is still a good buy.

It's only if you want to do compute, GPU, IO, that you need to look elsewhere.

There may be no one right sized solution for ones needs, and you need to go to one extreme or the other for reasons other than function. Another reason for a Mac + a PC desktop/laptop.

There are lots of thin PC laptop's, but I am not a good person to pick one out for you, because I live at the other end of the performance spectrum, I have an MSI GT80 SLI-263, which is amazingly powerful, and even compact and light for what it is, but it still weighs 10lbs and has an 18" screen

There are other people here that can help, I only wanted to give you some perspective on expectations, since you haven't looked for a while. I used to be more active in using Macintosh personally, but Apple's pursuit of form over function doesn't meet my needs any longer.

I am looking at a heavy duty tablet Windows carry, and VAIO is also bringing out a thin laptop which might fit your need, one is out in October, the other is likely not far behind. They haven't announced a Skylake yet.

Japanese site
https://vaio.com/

US site
http://us.vaio.com/

Vaio Z Canvas tablet with digitizer hands on [English]


The other VAIO Z might be what you are looking for:




VAIO resurrects its flagship Z series with two new hybrid laptops
http://www.engadget.com/2015/02/16/vaio-z-flagship-laptop-return/

The other is the replacement to the Microsoft Surface 3 Pro, the 4 series, but I don't know when they are releasing.

Maybe someone else can pitch in with some suggestions.

 

v_310, there is actually a forum area to get laptop recommendations, you fill out a form, follow the directions where to post, and then you can get many inputs on your need.

What Notebook Should I Buy?
http://forum.notebookreview.com/forums/what-notebook-should-i-buy.16/

### What Should I Buy FORM (Must Read Before Posting!) ###
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/what-should-i-buy-form-must-read-before-posting.29271/

mobiletechreview does lots of good reviews, including Mac's and thin PC's:

 

Much better! thanks

First of all, GPU is no issue. I do not game on my laptop - my TP has the integrated GPU from 5 years back and it still meets my needs sufficiently. my primary requirement would be lots of RAM and the fastest disk i/o possible - I also need to start work on iOS and Mac OS development - which I can only do on a Mac (Although I could violate the OS X terms of use and run it virtualized).

Secondly, a two system setup is out of the question due to lack of space and a pain to sync data between both systems. I have had a two system setup in the past and it has been a terrible experience moving data to and fro. I might add on a dock + display later on, but everything needs to stay on one system and I need to be able to grab and go when needed.

Third - spend lots of time travelling on workshops and I know the value of a thin and light laptop - having previously owned the HP DV 9xxx series (17' weighs around 6 kg with the charger) i don't want to live that experience again.

Fourth - Sony is out of the question, have had very terrible experience with the after sales service in India. A friend was advised to replace the hard disk to fix a corrupt windows installation. Also, I don't know if the vaio z can be ordered with 16G RAM (or more )

Lastly - the surface pro 4 (rumored to have a 16G/1TB variant) would cost almost the same or probably more than a fully loaded rMBP. Only downside is that it has not been officially launched in India (yet - there are still rumors swirling around). If something happens, it puts me $hit out of luck. I will have to wait till I (or someone else) travels to the country of purchase. Considering it's a one system setup for me, I would be left without a PC for the duration.

the rMBP tilts in my favor here. it has international warranty (confirmed with apple support) and if I get apple care, I can take care of any repairs with minimal down time.

Plus, don't like a touch screen on a conventional laptop. if it has a touch screen, it should be a convertible (like the surface). If not for the warranty and support issues, I would have gone for a SP4.

thoughts?

 

I'm aware of the thread! I posted here as my question was very specific to an MBP (for reasons mentioned in my previous post).

EDIT: the dell inspiron comes with a max of 8 GB RAM. Does not meet requirements!

 

The IOS/Mac development info swings it way over to a MBP 15" high spec laptop.

For me even a 15" screen is too small to look at 10 hours a day for work, I insist on a 17" + 2 external monitors.

Dual system isn't that tough to manage, I run them independently and only share favorites and development source via network share. The private cloud is the future, they say, but it's really just network sharing. I wouldn't worry about syncing them.

You really don't want to get caught using a non-Mac device for MacOS - hardware or virtualized on a non-Mac host, you can get yourself banned from development by Apple that way, it's not worth it.

VAIO is no longer Sony, an independent consortium bought the VAIO PC business from Sony a few years ago now.

Also, there are clueless techs/support people spread out evenly across the industry, you can't throw out the baby with the bath water

I am much more understanding these days, and move proactively to predigest the situation for support people and create my own runbook of choices they can take / make, so we get things running on the right path to a fix / solution.

When I needed to do Mac work, after the laptops stop working well for me, I used the Mac Mini and that worked ok for a while, but Apple has made sure it isn't a good solution for high performance now as well. Silly Apple.

But you could hang a Mac Mini off the back of a 27" screen, and dock the PC next to the screen, plenty of room.

... and I guess an iMac might be another good choice + a PC laptop for a carry device.

But, if you are only mostly doing Mac development, then you need to carry the flag where ever you go, so there you go, back to a Mac.

If you need something now, get what you like, and when the new stuff comes out, sell your 1st purchase to get the better solution. Mac's hold value in the US, not sure about India.

 

v_310, the forum doesn't handle posting youtube channel homes, it may have just started working, but it tries to make it a media link, which fails with a blank youtube frame.

So, I picked the newest small laptop PC review from mobiletechreview as an example, go back to youtube and go to their channel page, videos, and click through the videos till you find one that fits your needs.

 

I have actually gotten quite used to small screens, spent the last 5 years on my x201 (with it's 12.1') screen and i'm actually at a point where it's quite comfortable. If I had my way, I would have a dual 24 or the LG 34 UM 95 setup with a dock, but it will take it's time. I don't run a NAS at home and I don't want my data sitting out on a service provider cloud (google / icloud / onedrive). All my devices are synced and backed up locally - It gives me peace of mind .

considering how the laptops are getting built now a days, we are at the mercy of tech support now. That way, I still love my thinkpad - every 6 months, I strip it down, everything comes apart all the way up to the motherboard, and I dust off. It snaps back together perfectly and still feels solid.

iMac or a mac mini would be a good choice If I had space. I don't even have a desk available right now, so desktop class machines are out of the question

So, I guess we're back to the original question - by now, or buy 6 months later - considering I will be holding on to this for the next 5 years at least (only adding on an additional display at some point in the future). Resale value does not really matter in this case.

 

v_310, if you are ready to code / build, get it now, if you are still in design, and can do it on the PC ok, then wait.

So, it comes down to a 13" dual core vs quad core 15"?

Screen size is nice, especially if it is all you have. At some point age will kick in and you will be surprised at how fast you will want a larger screen to look at, say around 30-35...

Refresh the page, I posted a 13"vs 15" Macbook review in the previous post, here it is again in case you don't see it in the previous posting:

15" Retina MacBook Pro (2015) vs. 13" Retina MacBook Pro (2015) Comparison Smackdown




I know you said you don't need GPU, but there are more and more things that are using GPU acceleration, and since you are going to keep this for 5 years, it couldn't hurt to check out the discrete GPU 15", recently refreshed.

 

v_310, here is the site I use to check out when to buy Apple stuff, they watch the upgrade cycle, and count the days in between.

MacRumors Buyer's Guide
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac

 

They're aren't going to put Xeons in anything but the Mac Pro and that's probably going to be quite some time after their mobile launches. If you need a system now for work, then I'd just buy the current model. I had this decision to make this past December and just bought what they offered back then. I'd love to go with the Skylake Xeon as well as it supports AVX 512 and it would be fun to play with if I had the time but you can play the waiting game for a long time with anything that you buy.

My son's employer used to give out HPs for employee laptops and now gives out 15 inch Retina MacBook Pros. I was a bit surprised at this though I think that they like the large physical memory space for doing genetic analysis, and being able to run multiple virtual machines with multiple operating systems. You can run OS X, Linux and Windows on a Mac but you can't do the same legally on a Windows system.

I have a friend that works at Google and they have the choice between MacBooks and Lenovos running Linux and he told me that the vast majority of employees go with MacBooks. I use my 15 inch rMBP as my daily driver for personal use and at the office. I hook it up to two external displays, a Cherry-MX Blue keyboard and an Apple Mouse and it's very nice.

One other nice thing about MacBooks - if I lost my current MacBook, I could just go down to the local Apple Store, buy one, hook it up to my backup drive and be back up and running pretty quickly. And that will be true for many years out. I think that it would be quite a bit harder to get back up and running on a Windows system because of the licensing structure on Windows systems. You might have to buy another Windows license and then reinstall all of the software and restore all of your data and this can take some time to figure out, especially if your software installations were done some time ago.

 

Regarding GPU acceleration: we've had many MacBook Pros with discrete graphics that have failed. Apple replaced the motherboards for free (something like six of them) in all cases but it was a bit of a nuisance to deal with the various problems. The GPUs can result in a lot of heat in a very small enclosure and we made the conscious decision to go with integrated graphics (which are still quite good) so that we'd never have to deal with various AMD and nVidia issues going forwards.

We do have desktops with discrete graphics and we could run workloads on those systems with GPU-optimized software if we needed to.

 

Just going to throw this out there... Alienware 13"... Might not be as thin, but it does come with a dual core i7, 16 GB of RAM, and user replaceable SSD. Around 4.5 lbs. And you can get it with or without a touchscreen, granted, without a touchscreen, you don't get the very high resolution. Then again, on a 13", I'm not sure if many people care to go beyond 1920x1080.

 

Thanks! excellent points. I will be going with integrated graphics. Will not be using any graphics intensive applications. Will mostly be working with multiple VM's simultaneously.

Three main issues -
1) OS X / iOS development. I can't do this on anything else other than a Mac
2) Discrete graphics => lesser battery life. Don't expect his would give me a 8+ hour battery life
3) PCIe storage vs. SATA storage. Will be running multiple VM's at the same time and I need the fastest disk i/o possible

 

1) Early, you stated to show you a PC that had the power of an Apple. So, why did we bother if your requirement is to run OSX? /confused
2) Just because it has discrete graphics does not mean it has worse battery life. I get close to 6 hours, but that's because when I am not running anything graphic intensive, the system is using the graphics chip that is built in on the CPU.
3) I have not had an issue with the SSD in my system. In fact, I was able to boot up the following VMs: Server 2012 R2, Windows 7, RHEL7, and Khali Linux, all at the same time without noticing any real slow down /shrugs

Bottom line, if you need a system now, buy a rMBP now. If you can and want to wait, just wait for Kaby Lake/Cannonlake. I don't foresee Apple refreshing the 15" rMBP until next year.

However, you should know that it is near impossible to keep up with technology. There will always be something newer/better around the corner, making the waiting game indefinite.

 

I think OP is simply asking if he/she should purchase a Mac laptop now or wait to see what comes out in next refresh. OP stated in post # 10 that OS X is a requirement, so we knew about that.

If it were me, and since it is such a large purchase money wise... if you can wait I would. Although with Apple you never really can know for sure what that refresh will contain or how long you will be waiting. So, if you have an immediate need to begin iOS develepment, buy now. Else, I would probably wait. Main reason for waiting would be to see if next Macbook Pro are capable of 32GB or more instead of 16GB. That could be very beneficial to you if you run multiple VMs concurrently.

regarding discrete vs integrated graphics in the CPU. You should be able to disable discrete in the system preferences under Power Settings. At least you can on my macbook pro (circa 2009 with Nvidia) using latest Yosemite.

Good luck

 

It never ceases to amaze me how many folks drop into a thread about a Macbook only to say "don't but a Macbook"

I'm no expert, but I was a PC user since the early 19080's, and purchased an early 2013 15" MBPr this past March; all I can say is I'm loving my MBPr.

I've had no issues with it, and the trackpad is simply amazing!

The thing about waiting for the new MBPr, or any other thing, is "new" is always around the corner.

The saying "it just works" is true.

 

Macs are great for productivity in everyday applications and are very stable systems to execute those applications as well. And as Macs have improved over the years they've been able to keep up with that Everyday Computing and occasionally add on Power Users as well. So basically, my feelings are that if you're an Everyday User combined with occasional Power User then Macs are perfect. However if you are an Everyday 'Power User' perhaps Macs should not be your first choice.

That's simply it in a nut shell. Thoughts?

 

Macs are not the productivity powerhouses they once were. My department at work uses the full suite of Adobe CC, and the Windows machines we have run it much more smoothly. I primarily use Acrobat, and while version 10 was fine, CC is absolutely abysmal on the Mac Mini I use at my desk.

For light to moderate consumer use, they're fine, and that's really where Apple is pitching most of its products. I was contemplating switching away from a Mac for my next notebook, but in light of the Windows 10 debacle, I'm staying in this ecosystem. Hopefully my machine will last until Skylake models hit the market. At that point, I may very well pick up a refurbished Haswell since those will invariably drop in price.

 

Do

I couldn't agree more, I was going to post something similar. I've used PC's and still use PC's for some things (Gaming mostly), but I also use my MBP. The retina screen MacBook Pro's are fantastic computers and there's no denying it. People don't like Apple for various reasons, I have issues with some of Apple's business practices (ok, most ) but they still make great products. I've been working in a mixed environment of mac and PC computers for the past 10 years and it's night and day in comparing the two.

Is apple overpriced? Sure
Do they make a great product? Yes

It's up to the consumer to decide if the extra price is worth buying an Apple, if they decided to buy an Apple there's no need to go and try and talk them out of it.

 

There are Windows laptops that meet these specs, not sure what you are talking about? For one, the Dell XPS 13 9350. With these Dells, you're also free to open them and put any ssd, hdd, or ram configuration that you'd like. Maybe you are thinking these PCs are like macs and you can't open them to install ram?

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/notebooks/38922-new-dell-xps-13-gets-16gb-ram-1tb-ssd

 

I have a 2012 rMBP 15 and decided to get a Dell XPS 9550 instead of the current crop of rMBPs. I think the skylake refresh could be a major update for Apples lineup. I just couldn't buy one at this point. The rMBP is in dire need of a facelift right now, it could shave some size and weight too. It's starting to look very dated with that huge bezel (what is it with apple and giant bezels?). I try to time my upgrades during the first 30 days of a products release, so the rMBP 13 for example being last refreshed in March and still selling for full price, I couldn't justify that.

I will get one once they are refreshed, as I like to keep both a Windows laptop and a Mac around, even though I rarely use the Mac.

**if you need one now, you could buy one from B&H. They take returns until Feb 1. You could return it by Feb 1 and that date could likely be + or - 30 days of when MacBook gets refreshed.

 

XPS line up is very good compared to MBP but the problem is its QC is terrible. I planned to buy XPS 15 9550 since it was announced but look at the owner thread and you will see many troubles with this nice laptop. I can't imagine a premium price XPS laptop can get so much problems over simple things. Most are software things but some are BIOS/Hardware issues.

I will wait until they fix the problems somehow, or switch to MBP 15 if they can't.

 

i7/16GB/1TB SSD PCIe:

XPS 13 2599$
MBP 13 2699$

Not too much overprice imo. And don't compare a MBP to a ugly, heavy, low sRGB screen, short battery life, big powerhouse laptop again, they are built for different markets. It's kind of stupid to compare.

 

I can't wait to check out the new Skylake MacBook Pro...hoping for 16 mm thin with Xeon processor and high end AMD graphics and 5K panel

best powerhouse thin laptop out there now seems to be the new HP ZBook Studio..until the MacBook Pro comes out

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/computing/pc/hp-s-new-workstations-1308698

 

If any of you have the slightest inkling to use an Apple computer, I highly suggest you rethink otherwise. My friends have all returned theirs and picked up some chunkier PC or build a desktop because of one thing: HEAT. It's not an AMD or nVidia exclusive problem either.

You cannot shove a discrete graphics cards in such a small form factor, and expect heat to magically dissipate. Any macbook pro with a discrete card will get so ridiculously hot, it will have to throttle, and you will lose performance. If all you want to do is watch Netflix, Facebook, browse the internet and do some word processing, by all means get a Mac laptop.


Power users (video, photo, 3D render), look elsewhere. This problem isn't going away any time soon as long as Apple thinks it can keep this design model the same.

 

Well I have to admit, Im ordering one of those studio units and a couple other units for my hardware refresh this year.

 

Prepare yourself for quadruple disappointment.

 

HAHA Hello!, so I just stumbled upon this thread and had to check the date later on as I read to see if I wasn't dreaming when OP asked to see a windows machine with specs that were comparable to a mac. Anyway, I got a new dell XPS 15 9550 and it's wonderful. If you want a machine with OS X then this isn't rocket science... a Macbook!
To wait or not to wait for Skylake refresh? I'd say to wait (if you can), the skylake CPUs do bring somewhat of a whole bunch of improvements.

 

There is a chance the new rmbp's won't use a discrete card due to all the issues - and offer a skylake version with an Intel Iris 550, with the higher end model with the Intel Iris Pro 580. Both should be significantly better iGPU's than the current gen.

 

The wait for the Skylake Macs are annoying the heck out of me too. I sold all my Haswell Macs to wait for Skylake and really regret it. Luckily, I have a MBP from work to use for Work stuff. However, I'd prefer to use my own computer, one that I know is clean of corporate snooping. One that I can use for both work and personal stuff.

Here's the scoop on Skylake. They're actually not much faster than Broadwell, and in a lot of cases, they are slower. There are a lot of benchmarks out there. Also, the current Skylake has a serious power management and graphics bug. They're actually leaking a lot of power during sleep and the graphics drivers are constantly crashing. You can check the Surface Pro 4 and XPS 13 forums to read up on these issues. Hopefully, Apple will wait for a revised Skylake. The only reason I'm waiting for on Skylake is USB-C/Thunderbolt 3. I'll be beyond angry if they skip it like they did on the latest iMacs.

 

Do you have pics of the inside (rear cover removed)?

I'm still on the fence between a skylake MBP, the XPS15 or the Precision 7510 and one of my biggest concerns is build quality, material quality/durability of the dells. I'm tired of plastic laptops with premium price tags. I travel a lot with my current latitude notebook that I'm going to be turning in here in a month or so and I want something that's all metal. Not just a metal back panel and top cover, but ALL metal chassis. I know the MBP can offer me that but I'm a tinkerer and not being able to upgrade the internals of the MBP is the only thing holding me back.

If the skylake refresh has the hardware chops to run a few different windows VM's in parallels though, it may be a moot point.

 

Precision 7510 would be my call, EVERY Precision and Zbook/Elitebook W I have gotten since 2010 has been better built and FAR more reliable than my rMBP's ( especially my 2014/2015 models ). Don't compare Dell/HP/Lenovo consumer garbage with their higher end business models.

I don't have either the XPS or the 7510, just the 7710 and some other models or I would give you images for a better idea. keep in mind that we are starting to put 16GB SODIMMS in a few of the workstations for 64GB of RAM which is handy for us video editors and you VM people