Mac Book pro updated

The average consumer isn't going to do that just to experience OS X when they can just buy a Mac. Also, the experience is pretty bad when used on hardware not natively supported by OS X. Sure, it can work but often times people can't use a certain feature such as their wi-fi card or their sound card. That still isn't a viable option and should never be brought up in the discussion because it isn't something that the majority of consumers will do and even a large portion of tech savvy people are going to ignore it. The Hackintosh setup was brought about so that people could mess around with OS X on non-Apple machines. It was never designed to provide the same experience as owning a Mac.

So the software integration and solid hardware design isn't enough? Apple is Apple and they will never be like HP, Dell, Lenovo, or anyone else. They don't need to add Blu-ray drives or 3D displays to their notebooks in order for them to sell. People who want Macs aren't going to get that experience and they likely don't want it (which is why they are buying Macs). Macs also don't come with an obscene amount of bloatware (enough to slowdown a system that should be screaming), a crapload of 30 day trial software, or 50GB worth of hidden partitions. So Macs are offering things that other PC manufacturers aren't aside from the software integration and hardware design. Now some PC manufacturers have started offering "vanilla" notebooks/desktops but they also want you to pay more for those configurations. Last time I checked, Sony wanted an additional $50 if you wanted a notebook with just Windows, drivers, and some Sony software (enough to use the webcam, card reader, and a few other things) but that was only after spending $100 upgrading to Windows 7 Pro.

Apple also sin't the only company charging large amounts of money for small hardware upgrades. Look at the HP Envy 14, they want an extra $85 to upgrade to 8GB of RAM when in fact that same amount of RAM can be purchased for $20-$30 less. Yes, it is not as obscene as what Apple wants but it is still higher than it needs to be. It also doesn't help that the Envy 14 is also lacking most extra features and more in line with what Apple is doing. Dell (at least with the XPS 14z and XPS 15) isn't even allowing me to upgrade certain components in their notebooks and is instead wanting me to buy a higher configuration.

So yes, Apple is charging a lot for minor upgrades but something such as trivial as RAM installation should not be holding anyone back especially since it is something the common consumer can do. Either way, your price arguments have been made in the past and people will continue to make them. It doesn't make a difference since people who want a Mac are going to buy a Mac and people who don't see the value in doing that will buy a PC. Both sectors have their pros and cons, price would be one of Macs cons though you tend to get what you pay for. I had a similar discussion with someone else asking why I would spend $600 for my iPad 2 when I could buy a notebook for that much. I then explained that the $600 notebook would only get about 2 hours on a single charge, take up way too much space, and not allow me to be as productive (mainly because I can't write on the screen while taking notes in class). He still didn't get it and looked at me as if I was trying to sell him cocaine. He had an even harder time grasping things whenever I showed him all the apps I was running and what I could actually do on my iPad 2 (pretty much everything but actually managing a large media library and viewing Flash content).

 

Well, it works, I never stated that Mac OSX on anything other than a Mac would yield better results, however, it's possible and can be done for those willing to experiment, in fact it's a much more cost-effective route. While it may have started out as a quirky-fun trend, it's changed now, as Apple has started using parts that are used in both Apple and Windows-based Laptops.

At this point, I'm not going to argue with the pricing anymore, you're clearly blinded by paying severely more for less than mediocre hardware and I'm a consumer that is the opposite. While other companies charge more, it's not an inordinate amount of cash upgrade. FYI, the RAM upgrade was actually $60 for 8GB @ 1333MHz, which we are comparing at the moment, the $85 is for the faster alternative 8GB 1600MHz, which clearly isn't offered by Mac. As for the Blu-Ray/3D Display, adding more efficient equipment to a laptop cannot hurt your sales and that's not limited to just those two, Apple needs to upgrade a few things. For instance, their models, MBP 17" is still limited in it's actual physical design as opposed to the other companies 17" models.

Windows usually comes pre-loaded with most consumer laptops, in business and gaming class laptops you can choose to have a blank drive and put your own OS onto it and they'll subtract some fee (usually $50). But the Windows Pro pricing isn't that bad actually and most people do not Windows Professional, let alone Ultimate, the Professional is more a business incentive as it comes w/o bloatware and the extra charge is simply to remove bloatware. But normally, I'd just do a clean install of Windows 7, which hasn't given me any problems and has been run exceptional since the day I put it on. With the software, both MacOS and Windows 7 have reached a point where they are just as good as one another, MacOS might run a bit sleeker but the difference has become marginal.

Tablets vs Laptops, is a great war that I don't want to be a part of but the iPad 2 being as useful as a laptop, there is no point in arguing that because it's all about productivity vs mobility. The laptop will have the potential be a more productive of the two but it's obviously not as mobile as the iPad 2, which has limited productivity.

 

Being a pc-enthusiast, and coming from an alienware M17-r2, and now a M18x with extreme CPUs(2960xm) and dual highest-end mobile graphic cards(2xAti 2GB 6990M)... I must say apple caters to a much different market (like alienware)

Alienware caters to pc/gamer enthusiasts and apple caters to students and young professionals who are willing to pay a premium for portablility, styling, battery life, and ease of use.

After using a mid 2009 MacBook pro for several months, (I've always been anti-Mac and a die hard pc user) I must say I am now very impressed and all for MacBook pros. They do whT they are intended for, VERY well.

ok so you don't get those high-end options for cheap like in other laptops(hp, Dell, acer etc...) but you cannot compare how well MacBooks for everything besides specs.

This is less of an issue nowadays since a mbp with an i7 760qm and a 6770m is more than enough to run any app at lightening speeds, with half-decent graphics for some moderate gaming... all while coming in the small, light, thin and ultra portable footprint of a MacBook pro.

OSX lion is very polished and works extremely well, and no one can match the long battery life and best in class multi-touch trackpad.

All this to say, I am buying a MacBook pro to replace my alienware believe it or not, because I have gained a new respect for functionality and portability that comes in such a professional looking package.

That being said, I would advise everyone to purchase a stock mbp (hdd and ram wise) and upgrade later to save several hundreds of dollars.

 

Apple charges 200 euros for the 8Gb upgrade here in Finland. You can get two 4 Gb sticks for about 50 euros from a store. I'd say that's a bit overpriced. HDD are about x2 the price than buying yourself. SSDs cost about the same as if you would do it yourself.

 

See, that is it. You are trying to present something as being a viable solution when it isn't. It might work for someone who is tech savvy but we all know that doesn't represent the majority of the population that buys these products.

You've hit the nail on the head. I am just so blinded by the shiny Apple logo on the back of my MBP that I can't think rationally. No, I didn't name off some positives that Macs have over other offerings without bringing up design. Nope, I just made a bunch of Apple fanboy gibberish.

 

There is no difference between what people do with this and how people jailbreak iPhones. The really cool part about it is that people have already found a way and they have dedicated blogs, forums and etc to deal with issues. If you don't believe me, then just google it and you'll see all the results from youtube, forum communities and blogs.

Well, at least we can agree on something

 

Apple isn't selling technology they are selling an experience. You can't just use specifications to evaluate a piece of technology. You have to see if the experience it sells correlates to what you want.

Macbook Pros are a little over priced, that is for sure. IF all you are looking at is the hardware package. But for some people the experience is worth it. When I bought my MBP back in 2010 I was looking for a slim, sleed 15" computer made out of metal that could run Starcraft 2 on medium-high + CAD software + Matlab etc. The MBP 15 and the HP Envy were really my only two options. (The vaio Z was perhaps a third option in 2010). Anyways I didn't like HP as a brand, so I got the MBP.

Apple Customer service is also super awesome. I had a minor issue and since they couldn't fix it in 5 days they upgraded me to a brand new 2011 MBP with the 6750. That is part of the experience that Apple is selling. The Apple store is pretty awesome, for technical users you get good service if you have a problem. For non technical users its even better, I saw a genius help a lady for like 45 minutes on back up and things like that. That is pretty expensive, if you were to get it from a 3rd party and the Genius bar helps people who don't know what to do.

The computers Apple designs, from aesthetics, to battery life, to keyboard, to touchpad, to customer service, all of these things are part of the experience Apple offers. That experience comes at a premium. Which is why MBPs cost more.

Finally from the business perspective, if you charge more for a product people think its worth more. So if Apple can charge more there is zero reason for them not too. Apple makes a ton of profit on Macs even though their marketshare is only like 10%, their share of the computer industries profits is quite a bit higher. It makes no sense for them to compete on a level with the other companies. Their advertising/marketing is a lot better so they can command a higher price. And for the users they sell an experience. Don't buy a mac if you don't want that experience, and macs are not worth it if your primary purpose is a gaming machine. Go MSI/Sager/Clevo/Alienware/Asus if you want a gaming machine.

Finally for some people "budget" might not mean that much for a computer. My computer is the one device I use more then any other device. People spend like $5K on the nav system for a BMW they will sell in like 7 to 10 years. IMO if you are going to use your computer a lot, spending like $2K on it isn't too bad. Even if what you bought is a little overpriced, if you like it thats a good deal if your going to keep it for a while and your going to use it a lot every day.

 

So, I'm a bit confused. Exactly which processors are these? I'm pretty sure that the 2.2 Ghz is a 2720QM, but what about the 2.4 and 2.5 ones?

So what do you guys recommend? My budget is 2200, 2300 at most. I could get the base 15 inch with 8 GB RAM and a 128 GB SSD and a hi-res screen, or the 6770M with the hi-res screen. Which one would give me more performance? I would take the first choice in a heartbeat - the only thing that is holding me back is the 512 MB of memory on the video card. Is that enough? I would like to play games like Microsoft flight simulator, Dirt 2 and 3, and need for speed carbon at max. settings at about 30-40 FPS.

 

I recommend the 6770 and hi-res since those are not things you are going to really be able to change yourself.

The 8gb ram won't make a difference in games, only in some graphics apps if you use it for such.

You would feel the difference in the SSD more than the 6770 but this can easily be added later (and should not be added with apple).

I ideally, hi-res, 6770 and the SSD would be the best combo. Note the hi-res screen will actually lower your relative performance since your GPU would have to work harder at pushing more pixels.

 

I may be doing some Illustrator/Photoshop pretty frequently. How much of a FPS difference will I see on Microsoft Flight Simulator at maximum settings? Actually, I just realized I can't get a 128 GB SSD because it's not enough space for me since I plan to Boot Camp it. I guess I should just get the 750 GB 7200 RPM. But I can always put in an SSD. Yes, I guess I should get the 6770M. Thing is, with tax it may still be over-budget with the hi-res screen. Yes, of course, I know that the more pixels the more stress on the video card. But coming from a 1080p screen I don't even want to think of working on a 1440 x 900.

I've just looked at a list of benchmarks and this is what I've come up with.

The 2.2 Ghz could be either the 2670QM, 2675QM, or 2720QM. I'm pretty sure it's a 2720QM. The 2.4 Ghz can only be a 2760QM. The 2.5 Ghz could be either the 2860QM or the 2920XM. You guys know which one it is? I'm pretty sure it's the 2860QM because it's a more common processor.

 

Between 6750 and 6770 the FPS difference will not be huge.

Look at buying from Macconnection to avoid the intial state tax if you are in the US (note technically you are on the hook for taxes for anything bought on the net -- you are supposed to declare it on your tax returns -- but I digress). Costcentral or Amazon are other choices. Depending on which state you should avoid the initial tax and put the money to better use.

I have bought from Macconnection before with no issues (mb pro, 27 inch display).

 

Yes, I have looked at EVERY one of the authorized Apple resellers and none of them have the model I'm looking for: 6770M with hi-res screen. I think I should just buy from Apple. You see, if you heard my story you would die laughing.

So, initially, about 3 weeks ago I ordered a 17" MacBook Pro from MacMall. I kept that order for about a week, then cancelled it because I decided an HP Envy 14.5" Beats would be a better deal. I decided to buy the Envy and a desktop for gaming as well for about $1000. But my dad said he doesn't want me to buy a powerful desktop because he doesn't want me playing games all day. So I cancelled the order for the Envy, and, since he doesn't want me buying a desktop for games I basically HAVE to spend $2200 on a laptop. He also refuses to buy gaming laptops like Alienware and Sager. Besides, I don't want those either because I will be bringing those laptops to school and they will be too heavy. So, basically, I'm looking for a very powerful yet light enough to take to school two or three times a week. So, that's Sony and Apple territory. The only thing that Sony has to offer me (I'm looking at 15 to 16" laptops only) is the F series, which isn't as sleek or powerful as the MacBook Pro. So, Apple is my only choice. It will also make my dad really happy because for whatever reason he thinks I can't game on it. So now I am looking for a Mac, and as soon as I order it, I'm pretty sure I will find something better and cancel it again.

 

The MBP 17 inch is the only game in town if you want a laptop with 1920x1200 resolution....all 17 inch laptops on the market now do not offer this option. For this feature alone it is well worth the price since you cannot get this "feature" anywhere else.

 

Your best bet is the Dell Precision m6600. This has a very good video card m8900 firepro (like the 6970, so about the 3rd best behind the 580m gtx and 6990). Weighs 1.5 more than the macbook pro but way better for gaming and your dad will not know the its for gaming since it is a 'business class machine'. The hp 8760 with the quadro 4000m or 5010m would the other way to (call them to get a 30% discount and it gets close to your price range). The nice thing with the dell is the gfx card is default and it is business looking.

The envy 17 is a good choice too. These are all heavier option but they are really good for gaming.

About 8lbs which is about 1.5lbs more than the MBP but way more gmaing capable.

 

Dear Baloney,

I'm on to you!

Sincerely,
Your dad*




*not really

 

My dad would never join a forum. He's... not really the old school type but, you know... he's, well, you know what I'm on about.