"Macbook Pros are prone to overheating"

I would like to buy a 15-inch rMBP.


I live on my laptop. I am a hardcore user. I need it for photoshop, illustrator, InDesign. That's the 40% of the work. Then another 40% would be movies and games(in both OSX and Bootcamp) as I am a big nerd. And the 20 remaining to word processing, music, browsing and the stuff. Basically I need to push it. I'm not running VMs or doing 3D or CAD or 4K video editing, but I really wanna use it a lot.

But what concerns me is all these reports of people who say their Retina Macbook Pros idle at 60c degrees and gets up into the 90-100c degrees when pushed after 10 minutes. To me that's excessive. I've heard that heat from laptops reduce their lifespan. With temperatures like this, how could the computer possible last 5-6 years without burning to the ground, let alone 2-3 years?
My old Sony never got above 85 degrees. But it also was a Dual-Core processor and a medium range GPU.



Here is the crazy thing; Lots of reviews and statements are out there from people who don't got those high temperatures that other people have gotten. Anandtech, in their review got very low temperature readings when pushing the system; AnandTech | The next-gen MacBook Pro with Retina Display Review




Are anyone out there with 15 rMBPs who don't have crazy temperature problems?

 

Anandtech posts some weird things sometimes. Half Life 2 is not a good CPU benchmark.... One of the reasons is that Half Life 2 can never make full use of all 8 threads on a quad core with hyperthreading , for that matter , I don't even think Half Life 2 even uses 3 threads properly.

I think a gaming laptop would suit you better. The GPU in the high end 2013 rMBP configuration isn't intended for gaming but you can run some games decently at 1280 x 720. A high gamut TN panel like what's used in some Sagar gaming laptops is decent for regular photographic work after calibration. If you are considering high end photographic work , you should just skip to mobile workstations with 10 bit IPS panels.

All 15" rMBPs will have high temperatures when stressed. People who do light stuff like browse Facebook , watch 1080P movies , etc. wouldn't have any significant heat issues but if those people ran modern games , or did intensive video/photo work , they would definitely see high temps.

 

Do you think the high temperatures shorten the life of the laptop?


You might be right about the workstation thing, but I was hoping not to lug a heavy flexing compromised monster around. I want a rMBP for it's unibody design. I saw a Zenbook that had similar build quality (all made from one unibody) but that also got outragous temperatures. And the same with the Razer Blade 14. Im a poor student, so I really need something that will take the punch for the next 4-5 years.

 

Placing powerful components in a thin metal chassis that serves as a system-wide heatsink is not a recipe for cool operation. Any system that has a mainstream quad-core processor, a mid-level or better graphics card, and is in a thin case is going to have higher temperatures than a comparable system with more space for airflow. This is true of the Retina Macbook Pros, the Asus Zenbooks, etc. The temperatures these systems produce are within the stated thermal limits of the component manufacturers, but they could be unpleasant to use if they develop hot spots on the chassis (especially on the keyboard). This is a trade-off inherent to the design. The options are either to use the thin and powerful system and disregard the heat, purchase a somewhat thicker system designed primarily for either gaming or workstation use, or purchase a thin and light system with less powerful components so it does not heat up so much.

 

High temperatures would shorten the life of the laptop but I can't say by how much exactly.

 

I'm not worried about hot surfaces. That it gets hot on the outside is okay with me. What I am worried is that I buy the machine, use it for work and play and within a year or two the logic board is fried because it can't handle those temperatures around 90c degrees! that's the thing.


Intel writes on their website that 100c is the maximum for Tjunction. So one would think that as long as it does not surpass 100c it's okay. But according to desktop terminology, 100c is bad and close to shutdown, to prevent further damage (or throttling)!


Apple writes on their website that thermal envelope for Macbook Pros are 50-90c. So they are okay with temperatures within this range. Then the question becomes: Are Apple intending to let their products overheat purposely so people upgrade 2-3 years later due to heavy throttling/overheating? if it breaks down after 4 years, no applecare can save you. Had the chassis been thicker, could the laptop then have lasted you 5 or even 6 years?


Macs used to have a reputation for their longevity, but now I don't know..

 

Modern Mac laptops are meant to be disposable in a sense.
You aren't allowed to upgrade them and Apple just expects you to buy another one of their laptop after 2 years (ideally every year) or so.

Mobile workstations have a reputation for longevity.
You should realize that Mac laptops are overrated...

I consider Mac laptops to be good toys and not work machines.
Of course you can do some work on them but they aren't optimized for heavy loads.

BTW with mobile workstations , you can get up to a 5 year NBD (technician comes to your house , work , etc. the next business day in most cases) warranty.

None of Apple's laptops were ever meant to compete with ThinkPads , ToughBooks , Elitebooks , Precisions , etc.

 

But if you call a computer Pro, for professional it should not be breaking down within the first two years!!!

 

The "Pro" name is just for marketing.

 

In most typical usage situations from Apple owners, Macbook Pros will last as long, or longer than any other consumer system. This includes professional uses. For instance, a lot of professional audio editing is done on Macbook Pros.

The type of use that Macbook Pros are not designed for is continuous intensive workloads. If you're planning on repeated continuously intensive workloads, then a gaming system or a mobile workstation would be better suited for your usage. Those systems are designed to handle continuous intensive workloads.

It seems like you really want a thin and light system that can handle mid to high end gaming and is guaranteed to be rock solid for 4-5 years. The closest you can get to that at present is the Dell M3800 mobile workstation. Apple makes quality products in general, but they are not designed to be workstations.

 

Doesn't professional audio editing load the CPU quite a bit? I'm quite sure there are benchmarks based on FFTs and some of those same calculations are used in audio editing.

Also , don't you think CUDA cores from an Nvidia GPU can help with calculations used in audio editing?
Link for reference: http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~baden/classes/Exemplars/cse260_fa12/3DFFT.pdf

From a hardware standpoint , Windows based mobile workstations are better for audio editing. I haven't thoroughly compared the current audio editing software available on Mac vs PC but I don't see why the Windows based audio software would have less capabilities than the Mac version especially when Windows based laptops can have much faster hardware.

There are Windows based PCs that use ThunderBolt and FireWire so interfaces aren't an issue anymore.

 

I mean, I'm not going to run Virtual machines on them or prime constantly, but I am going to be working on it.


The problem with workstations is that they are very anti mobile!



I checked out the razer blade 14 and the zenbooks. Those get just as high temperatures also from using youtube. Are they better capable of not letting their logic board me destroyed than the macbook pros?

 

Something like the W530 or W540 is, at worse, a pound our two heavier than a 15" MBP. Not sure why you're saying that's very "anti-mobile" Kind of like saying a thin Sharpie is good though a thick SHarpie would be way too heavy or something...

But seriously, if you're looking for performance and stable cooling, don't buy something which has a poor, passive cooling system. Something like a MBP or rMBP running the programs you list would be akin to asking a Ferrari to run the 24hr Le Mones with all the radiators disabled and the air intakes duct-taped over. You're going to have a bad time. IIRC, a former Apple user (KCETech1, iirc) had more than a handful of MBPs and rMBPs literally burn out on her with her professional editing tasks.

 

I simply stated that Macbook Pros are used professionally. I did not, nor did I intend to, make any kind of evaluation or comparison from the statement.

 

As I said earlier, any design that makes thinness a priority and contains a powerful processor and graphics card is likely going to run hotter than an equally powerful system with more room for airflow. This is regardless of brand.

What you're looking for is a pretty, thin system that can handle moderate to heavy gaming and other resource-intensive activity while being guaranteed to last 4-5 years. There are no consumer systems that meet all these requirements. The Dell Precision M3800 mobile workstation is about the best you're currently going to get for all three. It's thin, has decent power, is designed as a workstation with higher build quality, and offers 4- or 5-year warranties with accidental damage coverage to take care of anything that could happen to the system.

Other than that, you're going to have to compromise. Most workstations (Lenovo W series, Dell Precisions, HP ZBooks) aren't pretty or thin, most ultrabooks (Apple Macbook Air, most Asus Zenbooks, etc.) don't have powerful components, and the few systems that are both thin and have powerful components (Apple Macbook Pro, Asus Zenbook UX51, Razer Blade, etc.) run hot as a result, which may interfere with their longevity.

 

Then maybe what I should do is buy the Laptop and then buy Applecare within 1 year and get that extra warranty so they will fix any overheating issues I have in up to 3 years. Combined with my powerful stationary rig I think my heavy workloads on the laptop would be reduced to 3-4 times a week.


I thank you for all of the suggestions, but between trackpad, keyboard flex, screen, weight, dimensions and other things the only other laptop I could find that really got me going was the razer blade 14. But that comes at the cost of not being in Europe(no warranty) and the same temperature problems (as you mentioned).



If I run the laptop in low power mode, would the temp still go as high? or if I didn't buy the 2.6 ghz quad-core, but the 2.3 ghz quadcore, do you that would reduce temps?

 

AppleCare won't fix any overheating issues that might happen. It's simply a factory warranty that'll cover factory defects only, and I'd imagine they won't take responsibility for overheating.

If you undervolted the CPU and GPU or did something that'd reduce the chances of producing excessive heat, you'd keep the laptop cool but at the expense of performance.

 

The closest you are going to get is the Dell Precision M3800 with it's optional 5 year NBD warranty. AppleCare isn't as good as the business class warranty that Dell provides especially since Apple doesn't offer any accidental damage warranty on their laptops.

 

Another down side of the Razer Blade 14 is (from all the reviews) it's got a pretty bad screen.

Apple Care, as Jarhead said, is a standard 3-year warranty. It only covers original material defects or problems. Overheating is very difficult to prove as a defect in original materials. You can obtain an accidental damage coverage warranty from a third party which would pay what the system was worth if it overheated, but Apple does not offer such warranties themselves.

You are less likely to have overheating concerns if you reduce processor and graphics power, but doing so would impair your ability to do what you want with the system, and as such would not make sense to me.

If the Retina Macbook Pro and the Razer Blade 14 are the absolute only systems you're willing to consider, then you just have to live with the heat and that's it.

yup

 

they will not, and this can be very country specific too, I have had as of this last summer, had 11 MBP's including one 15" retina die do to heavy loading and high heat ( I am a professional video editor and will render for up to 20+hours easily ) Apple can and will void your warranty for " excessive usage patterns " and since they do not provide accidental protection like my workstations nor 32GB of ram which many modern applications can actually use ........

for your use an m4700/4800, m6700/6800 or Elitebook 8570w/8770w will be a far better option especially if budget allows a larger quadro or FirePro GPU which will game significantly better than the retina as well.

besides that, since the ongoing Adobe and Apple wars Adobe Creative suite etc now tends to work better in windows 7 and 8 than OSX 10.8 and 10.9

 

That's.. that's hard to comprehend.


They won't take responsibility for foxconn workers who apply way to much thermal paste on their computers?:/


what if no damage has been done, but it just has high temps. Will they allow a swap to a new model? I heard people getting new models if they had problems with the screen for example!

1. Really? Adobe works better in Windows now? Damn.. I've been out of the tech loop for too long.


2. The problem with all those Dell's is that they are way to cumbersome. I got a decent workstation. I want something that is light enough to be my everything computer. both work and play. I dont see myself lugging those Dells with me everywhere.

I just wish there were other portable systems that also have some power behind them without risking breaking down. Like the new Zenbook... very low temperatures when pushed; Asus Zenbook UX302LG / UX302 review - the GAMING 13 inch ultrabook but then again... 730m DDR3 graphics and a ULV i7 processor.




Would temps decrease if I disabled turboboost and hyper-threading?





EDIT: A guide to reapply thermal paste. man this seems risky.. but it's crazy how much paste they use. It's no wonder they get so hot with paste looping out of the sides of the CPU and GPU; http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Reapplying+Thermal+Paste+to+the+CPU+and+GPU/9587

 

The Dell Precision M3800 was already pointed out to you. It has all the power you need, a good screen and offers a MUCH better warranty.


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Yeah, I just don't think it's an option.

Half the battery life, shallow keys, no apple trackpad, and a CPU that gets up in the 90s as well. Plus the Quadro card.. I don't know how that will run games/adobe suite.



I just went out looking and I think the Samsung ATIV 9 Plus looks amazing. Finally. The build quality feels just as good as apples. No flex on the keyboard, no matter how hard you press and a great battery life and trackpad. I wish they would make a performance class (more fat) version of it. With that build quality, would be insane! I also checked the Samsung Series 8. Has some good AMD graphics and a fast quad. But that entire chassis is bendy as hell. I really got the OCD with build quality, sigh^^

 

Not sure how too much paste would make it overheat; I figure that too little paste would do that. But anyway, they might not take responsibility of them (Foxconn, Apple) putting too much / too little paste since I'd think that they would imagine that you would have to pry open the laptop to discover that (which prying your laptop open would void your warranty).

 

in Adobe CS the quadro card will run circles around a Gforce card since Adobe had dumped CUDA in favor of OpenCL. the K2000m is faster than the 680m in the Mercury engine in Photoshop and Premier. the k5100m is significantly faster than the Quadro 4000 in last gens MacPro. ( and games just like the 780m )

Adobe, Corel, Autodesk, AVID, MASSIVE .... the list goes on. the FCP-X nightmare a couple years ago was more or less the nail in the coffin for pro apps that ran better on Apple Hardware. Hence why I have some of the aforementioned portable workstations actually running circles around XEON based MacPro's


but of the consumer models I think the Samsung should be good. but I have very little experience with them hands on

 

How do you know all of this without trying it? You will get crap battery life on the Macbook when running windows. The keys are about the same feel as the mac, and from reports the trackpad is exceptional. Any cpu will get hot, but from the 3800 thread here, it seems a lot cooler than a mac. The quadro card will be about the same as a 750m, just a little lower clock. It will be a lot faster than a Samsung. For one, it is a true quad core with hyperthreading and the samsung is just a dual core.

 

I second a Sager, even my entry level gaming Sager (8130) was more than enough for all my tasks. It is really bulky, though, so keep that in mind.