Macbook pro 13 vs thinkpad x1 - opinions? (coming from a thinkpad)

Hi All,

I have to make a final buying decision, so i figured I would ask the opinion of apple owners, as I would be new to mac (and there must be some former thinkpad owners around here somewhere)

the laptop would be taking me from the end of college to grad school- but my usage is basic. I would like something future proof (4 years) with good wireless signal strength that runs cool. I am leaning towards the thinkpad b/c of the keyboard + durability- any thoughts?

macbook pro 13 (MC700LL/A open box) $899 + tax

* 2.3GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
* 320 GB (5400 RPM) Hard Drive, 8x DVD/CD SuperDrive, 4 GB DDR3 RAM
* 13.3 inch LED-backlit display, 1280-by-800 resolution
* Intel HD Graphics 3000 with 384MB of DDR3 SDRAM
* High Speed Thunderbolt Port, FaceTime HD Camera, Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard (free lion upgrade)
* sdxc card slot, 2 usb 2.0, firewire, Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR, stereo speakers with subwoofer
*1 year applecare


Thinkpad X1- 129126U-open box- $919 + tax + shipping
* Core i5 2520M / 2.5 GHz, vPro, TPM, Windows 7 Pro 64-bit
* RAM 4 GB (1 slot), HDD 320 GB 7200 rpm
* HD Graphics 3000, Dolby home theater, 5 hr rapid charge battery
* Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205, Bluetooth 3.0
* fingerprint reader, backlit keyboard, usb 3.0
* 3 year depot warranty
* 13.3" TFT, 1366 x 768, 350nits( WXGA )
* camera

 

It comes down to whether you prefer Mac OS X or Windows.

I personally like the former.

 

It is pretty much going to come down to whether you actually want to/need to run Mac OS X or if you want to/need to run Windows. Hardware wise, they are both about the same and will give you very similar performance. I actually wouldn't trade my 13" MBP's keyboard in for anything else and the trackpad really is the absolute best out there. The trackpad in my 13" MBP is larger, smoother, and more fluid in operation that most notebooks out there including 17" and 18" models. Apple really did something nice with their trackpad that I actually prefer using it over a dedicated mouse. So I am going to be a little biased especially since I absolutely hate the little nub on Thinkpads (even dating back to when they were made by IBM) and I never liked the design of the Thinkpads (again, this dates all the way back to when IBM made them). There are others who absolutely love the design and nub mouse.

Essentially you have to ask yourself which one is designed better (since they are pretty equal in terms of internal hardware) and which OS you are more comfortable with.

 

I would go with the thinkpad, but be warned that there is only one ram slot, thus upgrading to 8gb is going to cost you A LOT.

Reasons:

better keyboard
better build quality
Better warranty (they go your house)

 

I use windows 7 on my MBP 24/7, i dont hate MacOS its just that most of my games and apps are native windows based.

 

Speaking of not hating, I'm not hating on your post but it's completely irrelevant to the OP's question.


To the OP", if you're going to run mostly Windows then buy the Thinkpad especially if you like the keyboard layout. The trackpad on the Macbook Pro is the best in the industry but you won't get the major benefits of having it running Windows (provided that you would go as far as buying a Windows license just to install Windows).

The benefits of the Mac hardware infuse with it's OS. There should be plenty of applications for school that run under OS X and as far as future proofing, personally I think that term is overrated as you can do most basic tasks under even a 5 year old computer. Even power applications can still run just fine on a 5 year old computer so you'd be fine either way. Both machines are powerful but when someone comes to a Mac forum asking about which computer to get either a Mac or a PC then OS X is not really part the equation and at this point I would recommend to get the PC.

 

Comes down to mainstream OS, look and feel of the system and style of keyboard.

 

Why i said that was because people often thing that a macbook with Windows is a bad idea and buying a Windows based laptop is better.

I use Windows 7 on MBP and its not something that degrades the experience a lot. I agree that MacOS is better than Win7 on MBP but then again compared to things like HP Envy's its not bad.

 

I disagree regarding the keyboard. Island style keyboards were dominated by apple until lenovo launched theirs. Its a great difference. Not that the keyboard on the mac is bad, far away from it, its that the keyboard on the lenovo is better.

 

Another thing to take into consideration is the screen.
I personally like the resolution of the x1 better, but you may not.

D.

 

I'd like to reiterate that buying a mac laptop with the intention of running windows is a bad idea and that buying a windows based laptop is better in that case.

- high cost
- low relative value
- degraded windows experience compared to a regular windows laptop (poor drivers, wonky trackpad)

 

Uh, you may have misread my post. Not sure why you're disagreeing with me about the keyboard? I suggested to the OP to go for the Thinkpad since "he/she" likes the keyboard as was stated in the OP. I never actually stated either the Mac or the Thinkpad's keyboard was superior to the other.

 

I have misread it then, sorry

 

I'm looking at a 13" MBA for use as a windows only machine and I'm struggling a bit with the same issues as the OP. In reading your list I don't understand the points you are trying to get across...

The 13" MBA costs less then that X1 (if you configure the X1 w an SSD), even after you go out and buy a copy of win 7.

I don't understand what you mean by low relative value.

Are you saying the MBA trackpad in windows 7 is worse than the trackpad of a typical windows laptop?

 

No, they are saying that Macs are generally more expensive than Windows notebooks with similar configurations. There is no point in spending money on a 13" MBP just to run Windows when you can spend a little less (or the same) and get a much more powerful Windows system. For example, I can load up an HP Envy 14 with a quad-core processor and dedicated GPU for the same price as the higher end 13" MBP. The Envy 14 would make sense if I was going to run Windows since it is more machine for a little less than the MBP.

By default, the MBP's trackpad in Windows is inferior. You lose out on most of the gestures, the operation isn't as fluid, etc. OS X, Lion in particular, uses gestures for everyday activity (accessing apps, going back and forward in Safair/iTunes/Finder navigation, rotating photos, zooming in and out, seeing all of your open programs, switching between desktops, etc.) yet the majority of that is lost in Windows without the use of a third party program. Even then they can't match what Lion is doing with the trackpad.

All-in-all, the general consensus has always been that you should buy a Windows notebook if you want to run Windows. They were designed to run that OS and generally cost less than similarly equipped Macs. Buy a Mac if you want to run Mac OS X. That OS was designed specifically or the hardware that Apple puts in their Macs for fluid operation. They might have the ability to run Windows but, in all honesty, it is nothing more than a side feature. The majority of Mac owners run OS X as their primary OS. I have only come across two people in these forums that use Windows as their primary OS.

I have agreed with the chef on this one ever since joining the forums and I still do. A very small minority of people don't and that is fine if they want to overpay for an inferior experience (this is not a Windows vs OS X issue but rather a Windows vs Windows on a Mac debate) when they could have purchased machines with similar build quality and more powerful hardware for less than what a Mac costs.

 

I'll chime in that I found running Windows on a Mac to be an underwhelming experience. If you want to use Windows regularly, and you don't HAVE to also have OSX (say, for Aperture), don't buy an Apple.

 

The reasons I'm hearing don't make sense to me based on what the OP was asking.

The 13" MBA is cheaper than an X1, the sony Z, the sony SA.

The MBA trackpad in windows 7 is probably just as good if not better then the the trackpad on the X1 (I understand it's not the same experience as under OS X but I don't understand why that's relevant).

I agree that if you want a budget computer go buy a windows laptop because Jobs has said repeatedly they don't build budget machines. But if you are looking at workstation class machines (which macs are) the price difference isn't that great.

I'm trying to figure out why a lot of people have that opinion on the forum... is there really some valid reason why it's a bad idea to run windows on a mac? I just want reasons that make sense before I spend (or don't spend) my money.

 

It's more to it than you think. First, you're over-simplifying this. It's not just about "Go out and buy a Mac and Windows comes pre-installed" as you have to also buy a Windows license which adds to the cost. Please don't come back and tell me about EDU discount pricing for Windows and such, I'm just addressing your questions. It's about buying a Mac with it's own OS that comes pre-installed and infused to work with it's hardware. Because OS X is infused with the hardware that means all firmware updates are done in OS X only.
Paying extra for a Windows license to run on hardware that is not really designed with Windows in mind doesn't make for the perfect experience and if you're going to spend a good amount of money on a computer it should be designed with the OS in mind that you're going to run on it and the end user shouldn't have to rely on the OS (OS X) that they are not going to use for firmware updates which also prevents you from removing OS X completely. Apple certainly won't service a Mac without OS X installed.

In terms of what you said earlier about the Trackpad, you're going by what you think you know, some people here including myself are going by what we know from experience. I had a Macbook Air and I installed Windows on it to run one business application and the trackpad (while it "works") wasn't a great experience against using a physical PC's trackpad running Windows. It feels wrong, it feels like the drivers are not perfect, and for good reason, because they are not.

The keyboard on a Mac is not designed with Windows in mind. There's no Print Screen, there's no Page up/down, the delete key works differently. There's no Control-Alt-Delete sequence, that's done differently.

The ambient light sensor does not work and you have to manually adjust the backlit keyboard.

A Mac is made to be used a "Mac". If you want a good Windows experience, you buy a physical Windows machine.
Again, what's the point in paying for a Macintosh computer if you're giving up the full experience of using a Macintosh computer.

Do whatever you want, at the end of the day it's your computer and nothing we say here will matter but I will say this, if the tables were turned and I saw a great Sony Vaio that supported me installing OS X via Apple's TOC but I knew I wouldn't get the full Mac experience out of OS X plus I had to do workarounds to deal with not-so-perfect drivers and a non-Mac related keyboard then I wouldn't give Sony one thin dime.

 

The MBA + a copy of windows ($130 on newegg) is cheaper then an equivalent windows machine (X1, Z1).

So you are saying the MBA trackpad in windows is worse then the trackpad on a windows machine? If so, that's what I'm interested in hearing and why.

Good point on the keyboard. That's something that does affect usability of windows on a mac and is worse then the experience would be on a traditional windows machine.

 

Thats a matter of personal preference. I feel that the keyboard is one of the flaws on the X1. Its just not what I'm used to when it comes to a ThinkPad keyboard - but again, thats personal preference.

I had an X1 to try out at work from our Lenovo rep, and when I had it side by side with my new 13" MBP, I felt slighted by how small the screen actually "looked" on the X1. Though I think the colors on the X1 were "truer" (in my eye, at least) I think the MBP has a better all around design to it. Crappy pic below, but the glass around the viewable portion of the screen on the X1 was huge.

The X1 isnt quiet - the fan gets very loud and is noticeable in a quiet room. Its the same on my 420s, so I wasnt surprised there. Performance of the X1 was solid though - I cant take anything away from it there. My main gripes were more cosmetic, and again, more towards personal preference than anything else.

 

Why do you have the MBP there calibrated with so much red in the screen?

 

Thats how it came out the box - this was the day I bought it (2 weekends ago) and the only thing I'd done is set the backgrounds the same and set the display to their brightest settings. Hadnt made any changes to the X1 either

 

You aren't comparing apples to oranges though. The X1 is a business notebook running non-ULV Sandy Bridge processors. I can go to HP's website and build another business notebook just like that and it too would be more expensive than the MBA. That is how business notebooks roll. A more fair comparison would be to the Samsung 9.

That is not what is being said at all. I suggest you go back and read through the thread again as the idea has been expressed very clearly in multiple posts with the reasons for making the statements (including one post from myself).

The point is that you should buy a Mac if you want to run Mac OS X. It was designed with Apple's hardware in mind as is infused with the system itself whereas Windows on a Mac is more like an added bonus. It isn't as smooth as OS X, it requires 3rd party software just to gain some basic level of functionality that is in OS X, and the whole thing is rather expensive. You can also look at it this way: are you going to spend money on an Alienware notebook just to turn it into a Hackintosh running Lion with half-assed driver support and a sub-par experience? Why spend all that money on a gaming notebook just to cripple the experience by installing software the system wasn't really designed to run. Sure, it can run OS X with some tweaks but that is not what Dell designed it to do. Want to primarily run Windows? Go buy a Windows notebook. Otherwise stick with Mac OS X on a Mac.

 

Well i for one dont think my MBP with Windows7 is all that bad, yes there is decreased functionality as compared to the stock MacOS but its not bad. If you try MBP side by side with a new Dell 15z you will understand what i mean.

MBP's hardware is noting special anymore 'My toilet seat had a PowerPC CPU'. Now with the rise of the new thin and light segment we can expect things much slimmer than MBP but may not be as well loaded.

Since MBP has a overall better/slimmer design than most Windows laptops its quite a good choice for the future. Besides that Apple has a image associated with it, would you rather buy a Acer or an Apple notebook?

If you love the craft, the build, the hardware its a good buy even for Windows 7 but if you love MacOS all that much build yourself a cheap Hackintosh 'As you said'

Bottom line is Apple and Intel have a special relationship, what Apple designs Intel is interested in it. MBP is an excellent balanced laptop and can take on most windows laptops except those based on highend GPU's.

 

The MBA is an ultra-portable with solid build quality, higher end components and light weight. As is the X1, the Sony Z, the Sony SA, as well as the samsung series 9. Ultra-portables are more expensive... the only exception to this is some of the toshiba portege models... that's the only other ultra-portable I can think of that could beat the MBA on price.

I understand that there's a lot of personal preference ("feel") stuff involved in this, that's not what I'm interested in. I'm interested in concrete reasons why running windows on an MBA is worse then running it on an X1.

There's been a few valid points made toward this so far (the keyboard key differences between a mac and a PC).

Saying the MBA was made to run OSX also doesn't tell me much. Why does this make it a bad windows machine?

I've been doing more research, outside of this thread, on using a mac as a PC and I think I might have found a valid reason why it may be a bad idea... the EFI based boot process on macs is mac centric. If the EFI boot process can't load an OS (harddrive failure, some software messed up the boot sector) then the MBA will go out and download OSX... there's no way to reload windows directly. If anyone can confirm this one way or another, I'd appreciate it.

 

Using Intel processors and chipsets doesn't mean that Apple's hardware isn't anything special anymore. Yes, you can buy a Dell, HP, Acer, Asus, etc. notebook with the same processors as in the MBP and MBA lines but that still doesn't deter from the fact that Apple has built their OS to specifically work with their hardware and vice versa. Another example of this (aside from the keyboard, trackpad, and other examples) is that one cannot get true SSD performance out of the MBA under Windows as, by default, it switches over to IDE mode. It is still faster than a standard hard drive but not nearly as fast as an actual Windows PC with SSD or booting into OS X on the MBA.

The image comes from the whole experience though. Buying a Mac and using it solely for Windows is like buying a BMW, taking out its engine and interior, and putting an engine and interior in there from a Ford Focus. Yeah, it might be able to operate but you aren't driving a BMW anymore. Additionally, if you are buying a product just for its image, you need help. The last thing anyone should ever think about is "baa baa I must be teh cuelest kidz baa baa!" when buying a notebook. Sure, it is fine to like the style and design of a product and Apple has that going for them but it doesn't matter what image a particular company/product has associated with it.

That was the whole point. Running a Hackintosh is similar to using Windows on a Mac. The experience may not be as bad but you are still running a non-primary OS with decreased functionality. There is absolutely no point in buying a non-Apple computer to run OS X as the primary OS just as there really is no point in buying a Mac to run Windows as the primary OS.

And? What does Apple's and Intel's "relationship" have to do with wanting to run Windows as the primary OS on a Mac? Intel has absolutely nothing to do with that entire process. Apple is the one who designs the hardware, contract manufactures it, and develops the software that allows for Windows to be installed on their hardware. The only thing that changed when Apple made the switch to Intel is that it allowed for this to happen since Windows (for the most part) was programmed only for the x86 32-bit and 64-bit platforms while not supporting PPC (except for Windows NT 4.0).

 

A 15" laptop that starts at $1799 and easily breaks $2000 typically-equipped is going to dominate in a side-by-side comparison with a 15" laptop that starts at $999 (especially that laptop, which is hated even by people who like Dell/AW). Not a good comparison.

 

Wow. This thread took on quite a life! Thank you all so so much for your contributions!!

I admit that I am still going back and forth b/w the MB Pro 13 and the X1. I do plan to run Lion on the mac and windows on the thinkpad- and have no preference one way or the other as to the operating system- as I am familiar with both, and my software needs are basic (office & skype).

I am just not sure which computer will serve me best for 3-5 years, and will carry out my simple functional needs well (not run hot, fast wireless connection, etc). I hope that if i make the right choice, I will not feel the need to upgrade/buyers remorse in a year.

The side by side photo of the MBP 13 and the x1 is EXTREMELY helpful!!! Though the resolution on the mbp is lower, I was worried that the design of the x1 screen would make the viewable screen smaller- which seems to be the case- i really need to see that computer in person- sigh. Ive also heard some gripes about the fan (which some have said is fixed with a software update)- it also saddens me to hear that the t420s has the same issue (looks too much like my old thinkpad, otherwise i would probably get one-ha)

Im also concerned that the mb pros will be completely redesigned soon- and when that happens I will want to 'abandon ship' for the new design (im not in love with the current iteration- would love a black mac)

decisions, decisions....really wish the thinkpad had a better screen (more viewable area/less bezel) or the mbp was 1440x900 (i dont want the mba). What has me leaning toward thinkpad right now is durability and support- i had not figured in the cost of 3 years of applecare ($183, certainly not bad), and it seems prudent. do you all find macs to be fragile?

 

Well, since you would run Lion as the primary OS on your Mac (smart choice), you don't have to worry about the whole Windows on a Mac debate that came up. Macs, particularly my 13" MBP, really isn't fragile at all. Then again, it all comes down to how you treat it. I can spend money on a Panasonic toughbook, treat it like garbage, and it would still break down within a month. Any notebook is going to break if you throw it around and don't take care of it whether we are talking about a MBP or Thinkpad. I know of three other people who have MBPs. One purchased a model back in 2006 (or maybe 2005, I don't remember) which was Apple's first Intel MacBook Pro. It is 5 or 6 years old now but it is still running just fine without any cosmetic blemishes. The guy put his MBP in a thick, soft sleeve whenever he traveled with it and didn't throw it around. He had to replace the battery himself a year ago but it is now performing (and looking) just as it did when he took it out of the box.

I am doing the same with my MBP. I put it in a thick, soft sleeve and then in a special notebook compartment in my backpack along with my iPad, books, etc. I have a feeling it is going to last a while if I keep treating it like this. On the other hand, I know someone with a 2011 13" MBP as well (they picked theirs up shortly after mine). They don't put it in a sleeve when traveling and just stack it in their old business style bag along with 30 lbs worth of books. You can see keyboard outlines on their display from the MBP being squished too much, there are already a bunch of scratches on it, their hard drive already crapped out on them (the MBP woke up while it was still in the bag and he throws that thing around a lot), and I don't think it is going to last more than 2 years (though he purchased it with the intent of having it take him through grad school, he just isn't treating it right).

On a side note, you don't have to purchase AppleCare right away, you just have to do it within the one year warranty. You also don't have to buy AppleCare from Apple. There are plenty of online auctions (eBay) selling legitimate versions of AppleCare for far less than what Apple wants. A positive note about AppleCare is that, if you live near an Apple Store, you can just take the MBP in so that you have someone to physically talk to. The experience isn't the same as it used to be 6 years ago but it is still better than calling a 1-800 number and getting connected to a call center in a country that will not be named while you talk to someone named "David" or "Erika." I haven't purchased AppleCare yet for my MBP but I will definitely do so before the end of the year. Its not that I am worried about the fragility of my MBP but you never know with technology these days.

I can go buy a $3000 Alienware notebook and it could die within a year and have some $300 Compaq outlast it or vice versa. The lifespan of technology (in terms of actually lasting) can never be predicted so I think it is always best to buy a warranty (if it is good) for further protection. Others think that extended warranties on computers are not needed.

 

that $183 is really the cost of 2 years of applecare, just FYI.

 

Just remember - AppleCare does not cover accidental damage, whereas Lenovo has a warranty offering such support. If you do go with the Apple, and want that type of protection, my suggestion would be to make your purchase at Best Buy, and get their Black Tie protection (or whatever its called).

 

Thinkpads are far easier to work on and parts are readily available, if you are any kind of a DIY person you should be able to take care of almost any issue on a thinkpad. Apple's less so.

I agree with your comment on the screens... lenovo screens aren't very good (except for the IPS display in the x220 and the w series desktop replacement machines).

That's one of the primary reasons I'm looking at the MBA 13"... I love that screen. You can't find a decent screen on a laptop in this size anymore and if you do (i.e. sony Z series or the x220 w IPS) it's going to be 16:9 which isn't a good fit for the way I use my machine.

I don't want to buy a mac to run windows but it's looking like the only option for me. I'm finding work-arounds for the windows on a mac issues I've found so far.

 

How is the Thinkpad easier to DIY? Almost anything in the MBP (which is what the OP is looking at, things would be different for the MBA) can be replaced by the end user. RAM upgrade? No problem. Swapping out the hard drive? OK. Taking the optical drive out? Not an issue. That is about all you can do on the Thinkpad as well without getting into deeper territory just like with the MBP. Screen replacements, battery change outs (they both have integrated batteries), etc. are going to require more work on either system. Parts are also readily available for the MBP line online and there are several small Mom and Pop shops specializing in Mac repairs that not only offer parts but they can service Macs themselves.

On the accidental warranty side: keep in mind that Lenovo is going to charge $260 for that. A 3 year at-home accidental warranty will set you back by $270 ($10 more than the mail-in service). Their standard 3 year warranty is priced about the same as AppleCare which, as previously stated, is essentially a 2 year extension giving you 3 years of total coverage (all MBPs come with 1 year of service but only 90 days of phone support whereas AppleCare would extend that for the whole 3 years as well).

 

Please explain how the Mac is not very easy to work on or to find parts for? It's very easy to get inside of a Macbook Pro and it's very easy to add ram and switch out the hard drive. If you're referring to any other things to switch out the average user doesn't do much further than what I mentioned.

As far as the last part of your post I highlighted, you do have options, you're just "choosing" to buy a Mac to run Windows. If I had a nickel for every time someone from the Windows forum came here to straighten us out telling us that we are stupid for buying a Mac when you can get so so much more and have so many more options in the Windows world for a lot less money then I would own more stock than Steve Jobs.
You do have options (such as the new Sony Z or the Thinkpad in question) but your "choosing" to go with what's cheaper and while that's not necessarily a bad thing, you're choosing to buy a non-physical Windows computer and hoping to enjoy the Windows experience with it. You won't. I already mentioned earlier about the keyboard.

Aside from grabbing more of the market, Apple allowed installing Windows on the Mac to help bridge gaps for people wanting to switch to OS X but still have a couple of Windows apps or for some apps that are Windows only. I've been reading your posts and you think it's as simple as installing Windows on a Macbook and it runs the same as any other Windows machine. Yes and NO. The NO being the most emphasized. Again, it's your money, but people with experience have already explained to you how it will be. Since it doesn't seem to matter to you what we say then go ahead and purchase the Macbook and use it as a Windows only machine. It just won't be what you think.

 

True, it might be an expensive up front cost on the warranty, but when/if you need it, it definitely pays for itself. We have users at work who completely trash their laptops (one guy even backed over his with his car) and Lenovo repairs them each and every time, no questions asked.

 

Wow... wasn't trying to offend but guess I did.

The thinkpads have a repair pdf freely available from lenovo... these are business oriented machines and it's expected that those purchasing the machines will need to know how to repair them. In addition thinkpads usually have a more conservative selection of parts so that businesses can standardize around the parts in that model. I was a tech and I have found it easier to work on thinkpads then macs... harddrives have an easily accessible door, as does ram, the battery is removeable, etc..

I wasn't trying to straighten you out. I'm not suggesting you (or anyone else) run windows on your mac. I just love the hardware in the MBA and I can't find that combination in a windows machine.

 

I have been trying out Windows on a MBA (I know the topic is MBP), and the experience is a mixed bag, as suggested. Here are the shortcomings as far as Windows use that I have found to this point. If anyone knows a fix to any of these, even one, please reply.

The Mac uses an EFI BIOS, as has been pointed out. This causes several issues with use for Windows:

1.) There is no AHCI support for the SSD under Windows. The SSD, under Windows only operates in IDE mode. The SSD, although it seems fast, is much slower in Windows than in OS X. The WEI score is (at best) a 7.1 for the hard disk, which is the lowest SSD WEI score I have ever had. Under OS X, the same drive gets a 270 read/250 write score, which is fast! To test this, I ran Windows 7 under Parallels and got a 7.9 for the hard drive score, which is the fastest score possible. TRIM reports as functional, but AHCI is not there. This was escalated to Apple engineers, who replied that they had no plans to provide AHCI support. Other threads elsewhere have suggested that AHCI support can be enabled, but resume from lid-opening won't work.
Upper-level Apple engineers suggested that I:
a.) post this on the Apple forums (nonsense).
b.) contact Microsoft (utter and complete nonsense).
AHCI support for the SSD will not be provided by Apple for Windows use, so the SSD will run in a "crippled" mode, although it is still "fast".
(Please correct me if I am wrong on this)

2.) The boot options are not the same from this Apple EFI BIOS as on a typical Windows laptop. To be bootable, the device must be something recognized by their BIOS as bootable. A Windows USB-key, formatted NTFS, for example, is not going to be bootable. (If I am wrong, please correct me)

3.) Running under Bootcamp, image restore from an image backup is not possible. I have often used the Windows 7 image backup and restore with 100% success (not system restore). The image backup to an external device works fine, but the restore will not work, because the entire disk must
be partitioned in the restore process. Since OS X shares the disk, this can not happen, so image restore can not work. (Please correct if wrong)

Those are the biggest gripes to this point.

 

I think you misread my post dramatically. I'm actually trying to help you out with your questions. I never said you were trying to straighten me out. Please re-read my earlier post. You said outside of the Mac you had no other options for what you are looking for in an laptop. My reply was that you do have options and many people on the Windows forum try to come here to straighten us out confirming that, although their points are not always justified. This wasn't about YOU straightening ME out, I was merely making a point.
I've been on this forum for 4 years now and I've seen the worst of the worst people trolling and if I truly got offended by things people have said to me I would've ben outta here long ago so I can assure you, you didn't offend me.

Outside of price, the Sony Vaio offers the same combination plus more power, more storage, better screen and more battery options than the MBA, so when you say you "can't" find a comparable Windows machine, that's not true. If they were both physical Windows machines then I'd say you were right.

So after reading your replies I can see that you're convinced that the MBA is for you so go for it.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much the list of issues I'm trying to determine if I'm OK with. I may just end up buying a used T410s (16:10 screen w 1440x900 resolution). I just happen to really like the size and the screen quality on the MBA. Image restore is the big one for me... I use that quite a bit.

 

4 years ago I had a 1st gen core duo blackbook that I used to do Mac/PC tech support work. I'm a developer these days and I'm currently working on a thinkpad T60... with a 4:3 aspect ratio screen with a resolution of 1400x1050 and a ppi of roughly 125. The screen resolution and aspect ratio are perfect for the work I do. I'm in the market for a newer, faster, ligher machine... but they don't make new machines with that aspect ratio anymore and the MBA is one of the few that still has a 16:10 screen with a still usable ppi (around 127). The Z series ppi is just too high.

I ran bootcamp on my blackbook and I never encountered any problems... so I am trying to find out what the real issues are and I'm not one just to take someone's word for it when they can't give me reasons that make sense to me.

I'm not looking for justification for my decision but I also don't appreciate people brow beating me, calling me a troll and the like because I don't just accept their opinion.

 

Okay, I've tried to help you, but please help me and help yourself by "READING". I have not called you a troll, I did not say you were trying to straighten me out so I'm not brow beating you. You keep replying with defensiveness when I never tried to offend or attack you. I was making points by using examples that had nothing to do with you directly. There's no reason for you to have taken anything I wrote personally because none of it was directed at you. I certainly don't see how you took it that way TBH.

If you already installed Windows on your old Macbook then why do you need anyone to explain anything here to you as you've already experienced it? People are telling you things you already seem to know.

At the end I suggested that you go ahead and buy yourself that MBA since it's what you want. Did I not say that? Did I say you'd be sorry? No. I just wanted you to know what to expect but now you finally say you've already used Windows on your older Macbook and it's been fine so these last few posts (at least from me) have been a waste of time.

Now, hopefully this thread can steer back to the "OP" as he was asking about a Macbook Pro vs. the Thinkpad.

 

I've been read and posting because Macs have changed a bit since I last owned one. I'm trying to find out issues ahead of time to determine if a mba is the right choice for me. I've not made my decision yet... just gathering info.

 

Have you checked out the Samsung 9 13"?
Series 9 Notebook | Samsung Office Series 9 Notebook

 

Yeah, I looked at that... I've narrowed it down to the MBA or a used t410s. I have a really hard time with 16:9 screens.

 

Yeah I know what you mean. I prefer 16:10 scrrens myself. Too bad most mfg moved to the 16:9 format. Ebay has some really good prices on the T410 and the T410s.

thinkpad t410 | eBay