Macs being Overpriced myth debunked.

Ok first off, back than Macs were a bit overpriced but Apple finally coming down much in terms of prices especially since the move to the x86 processor architecture.

Quite frankly I get a bit irritated with all the comments on the MB being overpriced, so I did a little looking around and price comparision, I will continue to update this with more comparisons as well.

First off, when people compare notebooks they always leave out one CRUCIAL factor, the FORM FACTOR! Sure you can get a HP, Dell etc cheaper with better specs in terms of hardware, but you also buying one heck of a bulky machine thats generally two times thicker than the MB.

Form factor plays a HUGE role in determining the price of something, thinner = more expensive, as well as screen size and foot print.

Anyways getting on to the comparison I found two notebooks to compare to the MB to start out, I will add more as I find more notebooks that have similar form factor. Now obvisually not all are exact to the same dimensions, so I found the closest I could.

Note - anything with (*) means it varies slightly with the Macbook spec

Macbook (click link to find specs) Price $1099

First up is Sony VGN-SZ240.

13.3" WXGA Display
Intel 950 GMA
Motion Eye Camara and Bluetooth technology
Wireless LAN a/b/g
Intel Core duo 1.83Ghz
512MB DDR2-533 (*)
60GB Hard Disk Drive
CD-RW/DVD drive
Standard 1yr warranty.
1 RJ45, 1 4pin ilink (*), 2USB ports
dialup modem (N/A in MB)
Express Card slot. (n/a in MB)
Measurements 12.5” (W) x 1.0” -1.5” (H) x 9.3” (D) (*)

Total Price: $1,500

The memory is slower here, and that MB uses a different firewire port form, and external dialup modem is needed for dialup users. It has Express Card slot. In my own personal experiences I hardly seen people use the Cardslots, they dont like the idea of something sticking outside their notebook.

Price Difference: This sony cost 401 dollars more to an MB with same Form factor and screen size. That Macbook is looking mighty expensive so far.

Ok next up is the Toshiba Tecra M6, and a Dell notebook that I know of, but don't have the paper the model is written on with me right now. I will add more soon.

 

I was actually really interested in getting a Mac, but the 17 inch MBPro starts at 2800. My e1705, loaded with a 1.83ghz, top of the line 7900gs card, and 2 gigs of 667 ram, and a 100gb 7200 rpm HD comes out at about 1580. add the 80 dollar logitech laptop cam i bought and you've got it to 1660. Also, if you want to do a comparison, add 175 dollars to get it to the 2.16 ghz configuration. That puts you at 1835.

So,
17 in MB Pro
2.16 Ghz
2 GB 667 RAM
100 GB 7200 RPM HD
Glossy display
X1600 256 MB

3,099

17 in e1705
2.16 Ghz
2GB 667 RAM
100 GB 7200 RPM HD
Glossy Display
nVidia 7900GS 256 MB

1,835

Sure the Mac is thinner, but losing a quarter to a half an inch in thickness isn't worth over a grand to some.

EDIT: To be fair, my Dell was configured with a 750 off coupon back in the days. Today, I'm sure it would be higher.

Also, I do think the 13-inch MacBook is VERY reasonably priced for what it offers and am even considering buying it in the future as a lightweight laptop for possibly note-taking in college and to finally have a Mac. But the elder siblings in the Pro lineup can be beat.

 

Okay, I got an ASUS Z96J from Milestone PC.

It came with:
15.4" WSXGA screen
T2600 CPU
X1600 graphics card
100GB 7200 RPM hard drive
2 GB DDR2/667 RAM
Dual layer optical drive
Bluetooth
Camera
Modem
Wireless (Intel 3945)

The equivalent Apple product is the MacBook Pro. Note that the MacBook Pro is slightly lighter. On the other hand, it has a lower resolution screen, an underclocked video card, and a slower optical drive that, I believe, cannot do dual layer. Also, no modem.

On the MBP (2.16Ghz, 15.4"), we add an extra gig of RAM, upgrade the hard drive, but do not add the modem because I don't have a phone line.


The MacBook Pro comes out to $3279 Canadian. The ASUS Z96J costs $2019.

Now, you can argue that the Z96J didn't come with an operating system, or that OS X is much better than Windows XP (which it is). Or you could claim that the .5 - 1.5 lbs less weight on the MacBook Pro is valuable. Or you could say that the Z96J has a much more capable video card, a higher res screen, better optical drive.

Or you could say that the Z96J, as configured, is less than 62% of the price of the Apple. Or that you could buy an ASUS Z96J, as configured, _and_ buy a MacBook (non-pro) for the price of a similarly configured MacBook Pro.

In some comparisons, Apple's prices are very competitive. Sometimes even cheaper than other manufacturers. In others, though, Apple is still very very expensive.

 

All these are fairly accurate. What you have to remember though is that neither a Dell Inspiron nor an Asus whitebook have nearly the fit and finish of an Apple. Also, people often forget the included things such as iLife 06, or the fact that there is no bloatware (the z96j also has no bloatware). Another thing to remember is unequaled support from Apple.

Apple is selling much more than just a computer. They are selling an experience. Now there are many people that want to use computers for something rather specific, and Apple's may not fill that niche, so it isn't for them. But try to remember that Apple is not just selling you some hardware.

One more thing, these types of threads have a habit of getting ugly so please keep it clean.

 

your e1705 is one sick deal.

 

I agree, the macbook pros can be beat easily, plus most of their competitors don't overheat so much, and don't have their GPU underclocked.

However, I'm loving my macbook

 

I agree with what Cashmonee says. A compelling argument could be made that the MBP offers more than twelve hundred dollars extra value over my Z96J. For many people, OS X alone is worth the price difference.

Note that Apple has had problems with support issues in the past. Less so than many other companies and nothing to seriously be concerned about. But they aren't perfect either. Heck, there's the guy in Ireland who gave up waiting for Apple to fix his laptop and started walking 157 miles. Once Apple got wind of that, though, they did resolve the problem.

Claiming that there's no longer a price difference with Apple hardware is just incorrect. However, the extra price may be well worth it for you. And in many cases, the difference won't be anything approaching that between the MBP and the ASUS Z96J. Apple hardware may even be cheaper in some cases!

 

Yeah, the only objective of this post is to let those be aware that apple isn't as pricey as they used to be.

It has nothing to do with attacking one specific PC manfacturer, I will be adding more when i get some more time, its a bit hard to find some notebooks with the dimensions, as the point I'm trying to get across is that many leave out that fact when comparing prices. Some don't care if they got a thicker or thin notebook as long as it works, but to claim Apple is overpriced is unfair as their comparison method they used wasn't justified.

Don't forget on that MBP is also has some extras such as auto LCD dimming, lighted keyboard, sudden motion sensor and etc. So that grand statement should be a bit smaller. Anyways thanks for the comparison

 

Back when coupons were running, there were a lotta sick deals. I remember some people on this forum got some even crazier deals.

But also, I absolutely love walking into Apple stores and messing around with those Macs and at some point in the next four years, I definitely intend to purchase at least a MacBook. The features wow me and if the OS stability is all it's cracked up to be, that'll do me in for good. Add the very crisp, cool interface with widgets and you have quite a deal. And with Boot Camp, it's getting harder to have reasons not to switch.

But of course, if I were getting a MacBook, I'd be getting it for OS X, and the problem is the lack of software for OS X, so it would definitely be a second comp/laptop. Also, the one thing that bugs me the most is that there are almost no options for interMac/PC vidconferencing, save for a very unstable build of Skype out there right now.

I do have a lot of respect for the MacBooks, and the Dell's are LOADED with bloatware, believe you me, but a fresh OS install and still rather good service make them excellent values.

EDIT: Yeah, I actually am impressed with the lil' extras the MB's/MBP's offer, it's like a luxury car: you just keep finding em. I would kill for a backlit keyboard and that snazzy lil' remote is nifty, too.

 

Very true! It took a call to Customer Relations to get my problem fully solved. That dude in Ireland though only waited a week.

 

I read on another forum this one guy said to get even better service, you ask for Executive Customer Relations, supposely its where all the senior apple support people are, and from what I hear they sound even better because they actually call you back as soon as they find something out, and I think each one is limited to a certain amount of cases so everyone gets a fair chance.

Anyone know more about Executive Customer relations?

 

I love apple, but the macbook pro has a major heat issue, my D820 dosent het half as hot, sure its a bit thicker and the fans come on once in a while, but at least I can use it on my lap... if I was only going to use a computer on my desk I'd get a desktop, I think macs are the best for desktops, but after my extremly dissapointing expirience with the MBP, apple is going to have to change a lot to get me to go back to an apple laptop...

 

The heat issue is much better than it was before, a lot has happened since you sent your MBP back, and went with something else. Plus you should have known there was going to be some issues especially since its a first gen product right now. When I got the Macbook I knew there was a risk of problems, but yet none appeared.

 

Well, don't tell my Macbook Pro that it's not allowed on my lap (where it currently is right now)... and also don't tell it to run at 47 degrees. It might get nasty on me or something.

 

In my opinion (though I'm sure most of you in the Apple forums know my basic opions by now ), the MacBook is a fantastic deal. Had I not been looking for a laptop for 3D modeling and gaming, the MacBook would have been top on my list. Macs are amazing little machines. Not necessarily because of their specs (though the MacBook is nothing to sneeze at), but because of their attitude. It's funny, I was reading a review on this site of a 15.4" MBP and there was a picture of the box and the caption said "Even our box looks better." And that's completely true. Apple puts a lot of time and effort into looks, whether that be the system, the OS, or the packaging/marketing. And for a lot of people it's worth it. But I'm more of a realist. Sure, a Corvette may look hot. But at the end of the day, I'd rather buy an Evo, turn up the boost and watch the Corvette driver's face as my 4 cylinder sedan rolls him up. That's the kind of person I am. Other people need the Corvette's looks.

Like I said, I love the MacBook. I really want one. I would buy one right now if I had the money. But no one is going to convince me that the MacBook Pro isn't too expensive. Sure, it's an inch thick and is made of all aluminum. But is that really worth over $1000 more? I don't think so. Here's what I really wish: Apple would come out with a more consumer-oriented mid-range laptop. Forget making it an inch thick, go for a couple of inches, throw in a good performance x1600, and make it out of some kind of alloy rather than all aluminum. Then price it about $1500-$1700. They realized that with the MacBook; it's a little thicker than an inch, not made of aluminum, and has good performance for the price. But if they did what I hoped, they would have me locked in for sure.

 

You can get a refurbished MacBook Pro for around $1500.

With student discount you can get a MacBook Pro for around $1800.

I will gladly pay a $200-300 premium to get a product made of superior material and a better design.

Seeing people comparing the Apple computer to Sony/Asus or Dell makes my bones creak.

The Mac is just a more finetuned and refined machine. The design and time spent on details (especially the small ones) are nothing short of amazing.

The screen is fantastic (the best matte screen I have seen on ANY notebook).

Most people will buy the cheapest to save money. If you can't afford it I don't cry for you.

It's just a much better product in the end, not to mention the great software package included.

Apple is not meant to be a bargain brand. They stand behind good quality and great products with beautiful designs. That's not to say Apple is perfect . . .

 

A comparable laptop in style and size that will be coming out is the ASUS V1J. From what I have been reading about the specs and prices, they will be very similar to the mbp.

I really don't think it is fair to compare two notebooks price wise unless the size is taken into account. ie You shouldn't compare a 13" to a 15", and likewise you shouldn't compare a 1.5" thick to a 1" thick (even though the specs may be the same).

 

Nor should you compare a laptop with a lower resolution screen, like the MBP, to something with a 1680 x 1050 screen. Nor should you compare a laptop which has its graphics card underclocked by 30% or so, like the MBP does.

In the end, you need to make your decision on what is important to you. Some people find the WSXGA+ screen of the Z96J to be too high a resolution (though admittedly this is generally because Windows XP can't handle all the DPI correctly). Many people would be better off with OS X. Others DON'T CARE that one laptop is .5 inches bigger than another, but are turned off by the underclocked GPU, as I was.

In the end, of course you should compare the MBP with other 15.4" laptops. You may find Apple made the right choices. I did not.

 

Here in Brasil, where we pay a premium of almost 100% due to taxes, I couldn't find anything cheaper than the Macbook with similar configs (Core Duo, 13,3", around 2,5kg). The closest thing was a Dell 620 for about 15% more, and it had a slower CPU (1,67Ghz). HP notebooks were almost 35% more expensive. I do have my critics towards the Macbook, it is not a perfect machine, but it fits my expectations very well, and being overpriced is not one of its defects.

 

You can also become an ADC member for $99 and buy the MacBook Pro for $1599.

Not the worst deal I've seen, especially not considering what you are getting.

 

I was not trying to say thinner is better by the 1" to 1.5" statement. When I start to compare a laptop to another for price, the first thing I do in compare the dimensions, before getting into anything else. It is hard to justify doing a price comparison between a 10" laptop and a 17" laptop right? In the same sense I never compare laptops that have different heights. Its just me, and it seems to give the fairest price comparison between laptops I have looked at.

Once the dimensions of two brands are nearly identical, then I start looking at the hardware specs, any hardware luxuries (ie webcam), and finally software.

With configed laptops I now take a look at the price of each, and try to see if any price difference is justified by the hardware luxuries and software.

Anyways that is how I do it, and for me the mbp was not over priced.

 

some notes on the e1705 comparison:

1) I got $2300 when I configured it at Dell.

2) The RAM is 533Mhz, not 667Mhz (meaning they are not using the newer chipsets, but putting Core Duo in pin compatible older ones)

3) The 7900GS is clocked at 400Mhz versus the 310Mhz underclock on the x1600 (normally runs at 470Mhz). However, resotring the factory clock is extremely easy should anyone want to.

4) MBPs optical drive is a slot loader, which is superior to the tray loaders in both ease of use and stability (because the optical drive itself positions the disc correctly).

 

1) I don't know where you priced, but in the U.S. coupons take a lot off the price, and in other parts of the world, Dell is quite high. They're a U.S. based company and that's what happens sometimes. Apple's prices on the other hand are relatively same all around.

2) Dell offers 533MHz RAM just as a cheaper option, but you can also get 667MHz RAM as I have in my M90. The only Core Duo that Dell offers at the older chipset 533MHz is the T2250. All others run at 667MHz.

3) You cannot compare the x1600 and 7900GS, especially not based on clock speeds. The x1600 at 450 MHz is not going to outperform the 7900GS at 400MHz any day. And if you want to talk clock speeds, the 7900GS can easily be overclocked to 500 or 550 MHz and get performance close to a 7900GTX. The 7900 is a FAR superior GPU than the x1600. This is like saying that a 3GHz Pentium 4 HT is better than a 2GHz Core Duo. It's nonsense.

4)MBP may have a slot loading drive, which are very nice. However, a slot-loading optical drive can be purchased from a third party for the E1705, so this is basically a matter of preference. And even if you like the MBP's slot-loader better, you can't change the fact that it is a 4x burner with no dual-layer write capabilities. The E1705 is 8x with dual-layer.

 

I'd rather have an 8x Dual-Layer tray load than a 4x Single-Layer slot load.

Unless you speak of the 17" MBP which just costs WAYYY too much

 

That's a reasonable approach. For me, I looked first at the screen size, then the screen resolution, then the video card and CPU, then the other components. Only after that did I look at the exact dimensions, etc. The ASUS Z96J equalled or outclassed the MBP on all the hardware component comparisons so even before I looked at price, I knew I would have a tough time accepting the sacrifices with the MBP. Clearly, our criteria are different.

For you, the MBP is the better laptop. Weight, dimensions, etc. matter more to you than screen resolution, GPU capability, etc. For me, it was the other way around. Neither one of us is generally right. Heck, many people are quite happy with integrated graphics, for example! These decisions are going to be different for each person.

 

1. You must've loaded that notebook to the max. to have the price that high - a comparably speced out E1705 compared to the 2.16GHz MBP costs a little under 2k.

2. Dell is using current 945 chipsets, not older chipsets - they simply are only selling RAM that runs at 533MHz currently - the performance difference between 533MHz and 667MHz is negligible.

3. The 7900GS can easily outperform the X1600 even when it is restored to factory settings in the MBP.

4. Slot loading is nice, but the MBP has to reduce its burn speed becuase of its smaller form factor (15" version). The 17" version, however, does not have this problem, but costs a good deal more (about $800 more not including the warranty).

Dell also has a 4-year warranty standard with the E1705 - it would be nice if Apple including something of the sort, but their tech support is usually way better than Dell's most of the time.

Now, I'm not trying to bash on Apple right now, but with the MBP, Apple is overpriced compared to the competition available in the PC world as of right now. I understand the MBP has a smaller, thinner form factor than the E1705 and most all of the other competition out there, but the fact is, unless you really like OS X and/or are a diehart Mac fan, people are going to look elsewhere for a notebook. I'm a Mac fan myself, but when I look at the MBP, I just don't see a good value in what I'm getting for what I pay for.

The MacBook on the other hand offers spectacular value IMO, beating most of the PC competition in its class range. It also offers most of the MBP's features, but at a greatly reduced price.

 

Well, let's see.

1) US quote, I am in the US. Also you cannot count Dell's coupons, as they are unpredictable and not everyone will have immediate access to one.

2) Nothing anywhere on Dell's site offered 667 Mhz RAM on the e1705. The blurb for the machine mentions it but all of the configurators say 533 Mhz.

3) Opinions are not facts. Some like the x1600 better, some prefer the 7900 better. The real question is are both first line GPUs. The answer to that is yes.

4) Dell does not offer a slot loading optical drive for the e1705. So in order to consider it you then have to add the purchase price and shipping of the drive. As to speed, I have used both and the speed difference is hard to really notice. dual layer would be nice, and in fact will be in the 15.4 MBPs very soon (as they start coming out with the same optical drives as the 17" MBPs - 8x dual layer).

5) Also, the MBPs have gigabit ethernet; can't tell from Dell.com what the e1705 has.

Oh, and the MBP comes in at $2599.

 

I'm sorry but this is just not accurate. Can you find EVEN ONE graphics benchmark where the X1600 comes out better than the 7900? The X1600 and the 7600 are comparable. Some prefer the X1600, some prefer the 7600. But the 7900 is just a better graphics card.

I think perhaps you were confusing the 7900 and the 7600.

 

Where do you see this? I went and configured a MBP similar to the Dell system:
MBP 17" $2799
2 GB RAM upgrade + 300
100GB 7200 RPM drive + 0

and I get $3099, which is what the other poster listed. Heck, the 17" MBP starts higher than the $2599 you are quoting and that's before adding the extra memory.

 

Please lets not get off topic here, take the graphics conversation to the graphics forum not here.

I also agree with the Dell coupon comment that Joelist has made, coupons are not accessible to everyone, and not everyone out there even knows that Dell even has them. People usually wait for Dell to announce on TV some "specials"

Dell is placing high priority on their notebook line obvisually making the PC line suffer, so lowering the price on the notebooks they had to increase the PC prices, and I'm talking about high end corporate professional machines.

Last but not least, dual drives are just ridiculous right now, are you all paying that 15-20 dollars right now for 3 dual layer blanks? I'm sorry but thats just dumb, and its gonna be some time before it goes down in value to the area that current single layer dvd blanks are.

Last post that fenix has made before this post here is exactly how I do my price comparisons, people don't understand that companies place a higher value on smaller dimensions, because with smaller dimensions comes with the fact that the hardware will have more risks such as heat being the more prevalent, and to make sure they don't lose money they increase the value of such said laptops exponentially, to counter any repair fees that these laptops will more likely have.

I saw a Dell notebook the other day someone mentioned here it was an m class one that costed more than the Macbook and had same specs and very close dimensions.

Coupons do not count because not everyone has them, The point of this thread is to show that Macs are not priced like they used too be.

 

Exactly, xbandaidx!

BTW, I was looking at a 15.4" MBP because all the comments about optical drives made me forget the e1705 is a 17". The 17" MBP already has an 8x dual layer slotloader. That was why I got $2599. Going to the 17" would add $200 and adding Apple Care would make the final price $3049.

 

I still can't get your price even with a 15.4" MBP. I get $2899. That's the 2.16 Ghz 15" MBP with the 2 GB of RAM upgrade and the hard drive upgrade from 5400 RPM to 7200 RPM. Not counting AppleCare extended warranty.

 

First off, no one in these forums purchase memory upgrade through Apple, its common knowledge to not do that especially with Apple, I mean comeon 450 dollars for memory upgrade? I'll admit thats the only area that Apple overchages on, but everyone here just buys base memory and upgrades it themselves.

 

Yes, but the point is, most pepole still would not want to pay an extra $1000 for a slot loading drive and a smaller, thinner form factor.

 

Actually the price difference is somewhere between 700-900, and dont forget to include the following factors:

1) Slot Loader
2) Superior Form Factor
3) Metal versus plastic
4) Gigabit Ethernet
5) No Dell crap on the HDD; no need to pay extra for restore CDs
6) Lots of extra software on the Apple CDs to be installed at the discretion of the user (like XCode)

There are two completely different approaches at work here; one serves up lower pricing for lesser materials (plastic) and other economizing factors (like the 533Mhz RAM). The other is a Cadillac approach where there really is no "ecomony" configuration.

The point is that the MBP, with all of the extras in it, is a good value for its price for the buyer who wants the Cadillac. In other words, it has a different target audience than the Dell used for the comparison. A better comparison would be 17" MBP versus Dell XPS 1710, as then both are targeting a similar audience.

 

The E1705's case is all made out of magneisum alloy - the interior of the notebook is plastic, just as is the MBP.

And the M1710 targets a gaming audience, whereas the MBP is targeting more of a multimedia oriented one.

 

cadillacs arent a good value lol, they break down too much and get crapp gas mileage

I would call the MBP the Lexus(because of the sleek design, reliability, cost). The Dell I would classify as a Volkswagen. They break down, cost(not as much but definately more than a Honda/Toyota) and most of all, they are quite boxy looking and they barely last 3 years without a total breakdown.

 

The converse also holds. The MBP has an underclocked and much slower video card. Only the 17" MBP has an 8X DVD writer and dual-layer (not offered on the 15.4"). The 15" MBP has a WXGA screen though the 17" has WSXGA.

You are implying that all of the MBP's specs are better across the board than a Dell. That's simply not true. Some of the MBP's specs are WELL behind the Dell or a similar ASUS Z96J.

 

Well its a good thing that the E1705 comes with a standard 4 year warranty isn't it?

 

Just to let you know Aluminum conducts heat better than magnesium alloy, and that conduction allows heat to passively pass better, and allow the MBP to be much quieter because it doesn't require a constant fan source, there is a post here by cashmonee where someone took a Dell and a MB or MBP? not sure which one I don't remember, he did a heat comparison which showed the MB/MBP was of course 2-3 degrees warmer but it had no running fan where the Dell did, but this was also before the SMC update that allowed huge drops (10C+) in temperatures.

 

That must be the reason why all MBPs run hot

 

While the OP compared US prices, lets look at UK prices. We won't bother with currency conversions. For the base £750 you get:

Macbook
13.3-inch widescreen display
1280 x 800 resolution
1.83GHz Intel Core Duo1
512MB memory (2 x 256MB SODIMMs)
60GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard drive 2
Combo drive (DVD-ROM, CD-RW)

Ouch! Not only do they take the . by charging £150-250 more than Windows platform for the same spec, but include the ram as 2x256! Don't give me no free software defence

For £900 you get a processor bump to 2.0ghz. Spend £1030 you get an extra 20gb HD space!

I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. Mac OS and software can't be that good to justify charging the same and more than windows systems with a decent GPU (read 7600/X1600), 1gb min ram and 100gb HD

I know it's all supply and demand, but Apple must be making a killing

 

Your forgetting Customs taxes and tariffs which are insane in europe, I don't think thats really Apples fault. I also have no idea who you are comparing this too, be it a PC manufacturer that is based in your country or not.

 

http://www.krischeonline.com/staticpages/index.php?page=macbook

xbandaidx, thats what you were referring to.

 

Yes thats it.

I'd like to see the test done again with the new SMC update.

 

1) Slot-loader has been discussed, it's still slower, but if that's your thing whatever.
2) Form factor definitely goes to Apple. No one has disputed that. What we're saying is that most people don't find it worth the extra money.
3) E1705 is made of magnesium alloy casing with steel hinges. As are the M90 and the XPS M1710. The E1705 may not be put together as well as the M90 or M1710, but if my old plastic C640 will last nearly five years, the E1705 will completely outlast that.
4) Dell uses Broadcom gigabit ethernet. Pretty much everyone does.
5) Dell will send you an OEM copy of Windows XP upon your request for free as I understand it. Mine was free.
6) Apple may offer you iLife, which is nice. But similar programs can be found for free for Windows. Movie Maker 2 is included with Windows, as is Outlook Express. The best thing iLife has to offer that you can't get on Windows that I can see is Garage Band, but I use Audacity, so I'm good to go there.

Look, no one is arguing that the MacBook is a great value. Nearly everyone has agreed with that. Also, no one is arguing the Apple's form factor. But the MacBook Pro is just not a budget-friend laptop. Period. Most people would agree that the XPS line from Dell is overpriced. But the difference is that Dell offers the cheaper E1705 as an option. I think most people perceive Apple as so expensive because they don't offer a cheaper alternative. They offer you one style for one price, and that's it.

And the 7900GS is stronger than the x1600 in any laptop. That is fact, not a matter of opinion. End of discussion.

 

Actually it is you and the other Dell folk who are making the off point argument, and who jumped into a thread whose purpose is to show the Apple's are no longer "overpriced" to do nothing but dis Apple.

Both laptops are good value for their prices, but they do appeal to different audiences.

 

MACS ARE OVERPRICED!!!.I am not bashing on Apple but they are overpriced for there hardware,yes they have nice software,but I would also like nice hardware.Yes they are thin,but that doesnt mean they should cost a 1k more for the same specs you could find in a PC.One of the reasons people bash on macs is because of the price.I really wanted a MBP,but I really didn't feel like paying $2400 to buy one when I could get something with better specs for 1k under.I am actually planning on buying a Ibook g4 for internet and word processing.I really don't pay for the design of a laptop.Apple is pretty much for rich people,all us poor people go to PC,lol just kidding.

 

Do you not read? I mean seriously, is there like some kind of block you have against non-Mac owners? Let me recap what I've said while in this thread (and a few statements from other threads):

1) I like Mac and OS X. Had I not needed a notebook for 3D modeling and CAD work, I would have bought a MacBook. It is a very well priced thin and light.
2) Apple has very good support and very good quality. Better than Dell and HP in a lot of cases.
3) Apple caters to the business professionals and those who care a lot about looks.
4) The MacBook is a very well priced notebook for what you get. The MacBook Pro is not. Its form factor, quality, and features are well above average, but most people cannot justify paying more than $1k more for lesser specs.
5) Apple offers no in-between solutions for the average consumer. They offer a great thin-and-light, and a high priced thin multimedia machine. They don't offer an in between with good graphics and decent pricing at the expense of form factor, and that's why people think they are overpriced.
6) Other manufacturers offer high-priced lines as well (a la Dell Precision and XPS), but they offer cheaper solutions to cater to the masses, something Apple does not do.
7) The best GPU you can get in an Apple is an underclocked x1600, which is not the best GPU available, and is not enough for a lot of people.
8) Apple is meant for a different crowd than Dell Inspirons or Compaqs, etc, and value is in the eye of the beholder.

Now what did I say that was wrong? And how are the 'Dell folk' impeding in a thread on a public notebook forum that aims to prove that Macs are not overpriced? Mac users already feel this way, so why do they need convincing? It's us 'Dell folk' that feel they're overpriced, so why would you have a problem with us reading it? Isn't that the aim after all? Or were you just trying to convince yourself? Either way, it's not the fault of Dell users. In fact, this thread has not once been a place where Apple has been 'dissed' in any way on the quality, looks, or power of Macs, just in the price of the MacBook Pro. Unlike you 'Apple folk' who have claimed that Dell offers quote "cheap plastic computers" (which is not true except of the B series), sub-par service (which is also untrue if you pay for the good service like CompleteCare, just like AppleCare), and computers that "break down all the time with a major break down in 3 years." My old Dell Latitude C640 is nearly 5 years old and was outdated and replaced before the CD-ROM and hinge broke, and it was one of the old plastic budget-oriented Dells of the past. Who cares if the MacBook Pro's aluminum construction will let it last for 10 years? I doubt you'll be using it much if at all in ten years. My M90 will probably last me 5 or 6 years, much longer than it will be powerful in comparison to the rest of the modern computer market of the time. If you want to use a Mac all the time for the rest of your life, go ahead, that's your choice. But don't try to sell me your holier-than-thou "I'm better cause I own a Mac" attitude, cause I'm not buying.

 

No, I have no block against non-Mac owners. If you look at my sig I also have a PC.

The purpose of the thread (according to the poster who started it) was to talk about Apple prices. So far so good. Then came the Dell users with claims that were off topic (Dell value was not the topic). I simply provided a counterpoint, made a couple of mistakes (which I owned up to) and made the point that, for its target audience, the MBP is NOT a bad or overpriced machine.

In any event, you can drop the "apple folk" and "holier than thou" stuff. I am not a devoted Apple user like you seem to think. In fact, if you looked around you would see me arguing the merits of Vista in other threads. I simply like my MBP, think it was a great buy and would recommend it to others.