My love for OS X is quickly fading... Should I cal it quits and go back to windows?

I've had my MBP for a little over two weeks. Everything was good the first week, and my first impressions of OS X were very good. I even found some awesome programs that simply do n ot have analouges on windows, such as Adium.

However, after really trying to get some work done with it I can't help but feel that OS X makes me do more work than windows would. Alot of its mannerisms are begining to feel very counter productive. I've been a windows user since 3.1 and though I've strayed into several flavors of linux on occasion, I've always returned to windows. I was attracted to OS X under the impression it would simplify things for me. However, in the real world I don't think that is going to be the case, at least for me. I mean I'm either constantly reboting to get into windows to play games, or I'm fighting with vmware slowdowns. If this was my second system, and I had a dedicated windows desktop I would probably not have a problem, but dealing with virtualization and dual booting on an every day basis is getting extremely annoying.

Also, as I said before... I have a few beefs with OS X.

I know this has been said countless times before, but Finder is a poor excuse for a file system browser. I've tried pathfinder, and while its better, I don't feel like I should have to pay for something that should already come with OS X.

The inability to truely maximize windows is also really getting to me. Sure it seems great in the store n that 30" cinema display, but on a small laptop display any unused space is wasted display. There is also no easy way to stack windows side by side or on top of ech other as there is in Vista.

The dock... I really just can't stand the dock. Let me give this example... In windows if I have a multitude of windows open, I can instantly see what is open and even if I have more than one copy of a program open I see those copies as well. With the dock, I only get a running indicator, or if I minimize the program hen I get a duplicate in the minimized area next to the trash can. It just strikes me as being something that is not very practical in use compared to a text based taskbar.

The mouse tracking settins in OS X are horrible. Sure there are third party programs to fix it, but they cost money. Again, why should I have to pay money for something that comes with windows?


As far as the hardware goes, the MBP is pretty solid, but I still have some complaints about it as well.

Aluminum is a fingerprint/dirt magnet. I sware I have to clean this thing constantly to keep it looking good.

Lack of easy to upgrade hard drive is really annoying, particularly because they managed to make the macbok drive user replaceable.

Right side of the screen sticks up when closed... Whats up with this Apple? For a company so in tune with aesthetics how does this slip by?



At this point, I'm really very strongly considering selling the MBP and getting a T61p once they are available. Then again, maybe this is just a product of m stressing out abut leaving for college... Any advice would be appreciated.

 

It sounds like Mac OS X wasn't really right for you...it seems like you're constantly returning to Windows for applications and stuff.

However, you may change your mind about OS X when Leopard arrives. So, I'd say hold up until Leopard, and if you seriously find yourself being counter-productive on OS X, switch back to Windows on a PC.

But I want to assert one point: nothing is perfect. Apple isn't perfect, OS X isn't perfect, Windows isn't perfect, PCs aren't perfect. Tell me when you find a man-made object with not a single flaw .

 

Sam's right, maybe osx isn't for you. You could just minimize the osx partition and run windows on it. It's still a good laptop.

 

I'm pretty sure I've read about other life long windows user running into the same sort of issues I have with usability.

And you may be right. Dual booting, even on my desktop ha always rubbed me the wrong way. Having to deal with incompatible (unless I pay $$$) file systems is yet another issue I've run into.

If only I would have figured this out a month ago. I leave for college tomorrow, and this is the last thing I want to be worrying about when I get there.

I considered doing that. And that may be what I end up doing for the next month or so until the T61p is available. But even in windows I've got some issues. The lack of a delete key is a real annoyance. Additionally, the DVI out is pretty much useless with all the drivers I ave found so far. It is limited to 1024x768. The biggest reason I went for the MBP was OSX, and the lack of availability on the T61p. If Im not using OS X, I see no reason for me to live with the hardware compromises of the MBP. Those compromises would be the lack of a windows keyboard the inability to easily swap hard drives, and the inefficient cooling.

 

If I were a heavy gamer, I wouldn't consider getting a Mac to begin with. It sounds to me like the MBP was a poor choice for you.

That being said, it's a nice machine, and the money is already spent. So I'd be inclined to give it a little more time.

 

Isn't there a mantra? "Mac is not Windows, Mac is not Windows, Mac is not Windows" (I think they use this for *nix too). I think most switchers need to keep an open mind about they way they do things in OS X. Things like the green "maximize" button, are there by design; same with the dock. Granted nearly everyone would agree that Finder is trash, hopefully Leopard will set that right.

It seems like you do most of your work in Windows, and are probably most comfortable in Windows. If you do make the switch back, Thinkpads are solid machines, so if you really hate Mac OS X, then the Thinkpad is definitely a good choice.

Good luck!

 

After reading this, I changed my mind. Get rid of the MBP. You have way too many issues with it to keep it. The sooner to sell it, the smaller your financial hit will be.

 

Oh right. apple still don't have proper drivers for windows. If you want a nice windows laptop, get an Asus V1S. It's in the same segment ast the MBP

 

Have you tried running Windows XP or Vista on the laptop through Boot Camp? I'm impressed with how well it runs. It seems like your problems mostly stem from the Mac OSX operating system itself, rather than the hardware.

Replacing the hard-drive might be tricky, but how often does a person really need to do this anyway? Of course, to replace it yourself voids the warranty so that is a big negative. If you buy your own hard-drive, and go to the Apple store, would they install it for you and save the warranty? Or is this a "you can only buy hard-drives from Apple directly" thing?

 

Yea he has already been dual booting. In the end, it doesn't seem worth paying the extra money just to exclusively run Windows on a Mac.

 

I was in your same boat! I had given up on the mac July... Then I started checking forums and finding ways to utilize it's features to my advantage.. I bought it back in May... Not sure if that'll be the case for you but i'd give it 2-3 months to work out the kinks for all the settings you can place on it to see how it works out for ya.

 

my suggestion is to stick with your MBP running bootcamp until the T61p is available.

get a T61 15'' with everything upgraded, it comes to around $2k (1k cheaper for the same hardware as a mbp), amd the graphics card is better than the MBP.
In fact, you should order the T61P now, because you probably wont see it until a month at least.

if you really want to give leopard a try, you can "obtain" it and try out the developer version. i doubt it will be a big enough change for you to stay on osx, but probably worth a look.

if u regret the T61 because of windows, u can get OSX running on it.

 

Yeaps, the T61P looks awesome. But, no, you cannot get OS X running on it legally. I stress that point very heavily .

 

Ok before you throw your MacBook Pro out the window, look at it like this: going from Windows to OS X requires you to change your overall outlook on how you do things. The same is true when switching to or from any OS. So you have to be open to that. Let me try and help.

1. Finder sucks. You are right. However, OS X is designed so that you should almost never use Finder. The idea is that you use applications to get to your files not vice versa like in Windows. So instead of browsing photos in Windows Explorer you browse them in iPhoto or some other organizer like Shoebox.

2. Maximizing a window actually just gives you a bunch of wasted space in most cases. The idea of the green button is that it optimizes the window so no side scrolling is needed. Unfortunately it does not do the greatest job. The point is, on a wide screen, there is no reason to have a maximized window because you almost always have just a bunch of blank space. In programs like Aperture, the window goes as big as it can anyway. I now find that I hate maximized windows.

3. The Dock is a launcher, not a taskbar. Use Expose. You will quickly find it superior to the traditional Windows taskbar I think.

4. Mouse tracking can be difficult. I find for myself that MS mice work best with OS X. I have no real help here except trial and error. Try a mouse with the software provided, try it without, maybe different manufacturers.

There is no fix for the last few things you mention, sorry. Another recommendation I would make is to get Quicksilver. It is a great app that not only is an app launcher, but can do so much more if you take the time to learn it. Quicksilver alone will keep me on OS X.

Anyway, I hope that helps. Just give it a little time and try to understand that things do not work like Windows. They don't work better or worse, just different. I hope you give it a little more time before giving up.

 

I *SO* wanted that MacBook Pro when I picked up my Macbook this week. I thought about this for 2 weeks. Then I set myself straight - I'm a total Mac newbie. Try the Macbook and learn the Mac OS first, then if I truly love it then move up to the MBP. The Mac is not to be my only machine. For now it will strictly be my mess around laptop to learn the OS and the Unix side of things. I am struggling with OS X myself, things that are second nature to me in Windows (mostly in the command line) are all different in OS X. But I am determined to learn it, especially Unix.

Since you're going to college, you're not going to have time to really learn and get used to a new OS. Running Windows on your MBP will probably drive you nuts when doing real work (missing/remapped keys, can't tap on the touchpad, etc). I think you should probably go with the T61. If I was to do real work on it, it wouldn't be on my Macbook until I'm 100% comfortable with it. I wouldn't have bought the Mac if I didn't already have 2 powerful desktops and an XPS M1330 coming.

Perhaps you can get a cheap Dell, like the Vostro 1400, and still keep the MBP. The hit you might take to sell your basically new MBP might almost pay for that Vostro (starts at $549!). It would be a shame to give up that beautiful MBP.

 

I just returned my Macbook because of glossy screen + my xps1330 came in. To be honest I miss mac already, same little things that give you isue on win. driving me crazy.
I'll be getting macbook or mbp back in couple of months, will see if they release anything new.
Some things are different, but over all it seems more simple and they work.

 

Our first MBP had a bow in the screen, where the left side stuck up pretty far when closed. I brought it back to the Apple store, and at first they said it was within spec and wanted to charge me the restocking fee to swap it out. I gave them the whole "this is my first Apple computer and it looks like this?" speech, and they swapped it out at no charge.

Having said that, we've had our MBP for a few weeks and still really like it. However, we use it primarily at home for writing, music, photos, and videos, so it fits our needs well. I will be getting a post-Leopard 17" MBP this fall and plan on putting that one to more rigorous use (spreadsheets, reports, Bootcamp, etc.), so your comments are appreciated. I'm curious to see how it will hold up to engineering-type business use.

 

Thanks for all the responses.

I really really want to like OS X. I really do. Its a great looking OS, and in my short experience with OS X applications they seem to better designed as far as the UI goes.

I also have to admit that the MBP itself is the slickest laptop I have ever used. But, at the same time it is not intended for full time Windows use. Thats clear through driver issues and the keyboard.

I think what my course of action at this point is going to be to continue using OS X as much as I can. If I still don't feel at home after two weeks I'm going to go ahead and order a t61p. Actually, it looks like at the moment the t61p isn't even available for order.

 

That's good, KelchM. Keep an open mind . I guess the main part to remember is that if you expect OS X to work exactly the same as Windows, you haven't really switched, now have you?

 

Yeah, you really need to have an open mind when coming from Windows to OS X. I was a Windows user my entire life (with limited OS 9 and OS X experience), but I just picked up a MBP 16 days ago. For me, productivity is MUCH higher in OS X than Windows. I utilize Command-Tab (with the help of the mouse sometimes) and Expose a lot. I never use the Dock as a "taskbar" like I would in Windows. F11 has also become a very useful key for quickly being able to access the desktop (works MUCH better for me than Show Desktop in Windows), along with Command-H and Command-Shift-H. Lastly, I also use Quicksilver. I'm still new to it so I know I'm not utilizing it to its full potential, but just being able to find anything on your computer and execute whatever command on it is just amazing. It's almost like I just think what I want to do and it's done.

The Finder I find to be decent. I love the third viewing option that splits the Finder into three columns. However, I wish there were two things I could do with the Finder:

1. A "path" to where I'm currently at displayed somewhere on the Finder. I like how Evolution works in Gnome. Lets you click on any upper level directory to quickly navigate.

2. An option to split the Finder into two. Very useful for copying/transferring files from one directory to another. Yeah yeah, I know i can just open up another Finder window but I rather it be one window split into two.

 

This cracks me up for some reason... well, whatever works!

Anyways, Leopard will have some Finder improvements but I'm not sure whether they'll address the issues you have with it or not.

If you do decide to ditch the MBP, have a look at the HP 8510p. It's one of the machines in their business line (so good build quality); it's available now and has HDMI, 15.4" and ATI HD 2600 graphics.

 

Where there's money to be made, Microsoft will be there. They're really nice mice though. I also like their ergonomic keyboards. (And own a couple myself)

Back to subject...

I'm not familiar with any facet of OS X. However, I believe that the issue of switching between OS X and Windows for gaming should be a non-issue during the academic year.

When you're in school, your needs will change. Perhaps you may play less games, or quit altogether. You might come to appreciate the small footprint and light weight of the notebook. And finally, battery life in OS X for the MBP is pretty decent.

 

Well i'm a life long windows user (3.1 to vista).... and I love OSX. I have never been more productive on a computer as I have been with my MB. My wife's new HP is constantly needed bug fixing, and my old XP based laptops were always doing something strange that would take hours to sort out...thus getting lots less work done.
Sure finder and OSX has its bugs, but so does XP...and dont get me started on vista. Like its been said nothing is perfect, at least you can purchase an alternative to finder.... thats alot less $$ than having to buy a new laptop.
But I say sell you laptop, if your this negative nothing will change your mind.
a

 

Since you've already used OSX for 2 months now, that's pretty much enough time to change your outlook if you really needed to. I would say that you should go with the system you really feel comfortable in. That said, as far as I know (and this may have changed recently), Lenovo is still seeing significant delays in shipping their T61s and T61Ps, so even if you order now you might not get it in time for college - or if you do, it'll be very close.

A good plan might be to wait for Leopard, if you're willing to put down the extra $70 or so for it, and see how you like it. If you still don't like it then, you can always order a T61p at that point, at which time hopefully the delays will be sorted out.

Also, I wouldn't stress out too much about college. You'll still have plenty of free time to do whatever you want, so even if you get a new computer, you'll still be able to adjust to it if you want.

 

OS X does take some getting use to since you can't go into it expecting it to be a better version of Windows because it's not it's a Mac.

In terms of the inability to maximize windows, it does seem strange at first, but after reading some OS X reviews at Ars Technica, it becomes clear this is the intent. One of the "features" of OS 9 and older was the spatial Finder where navigation isn't focused on alt+tabbing but by having windows layed out on the screen in a way that you can easily click select them. The inability of maximizing windows is to prevent the top application from hiding everything. OS X attempts to keep the spatial finder. In the end I find the OS X method very effective. Besides window layout, you can flip between applications quickly by cmd+tab and then flip between windows of an individual application with cmd+`. If you know the order of the applications and windows this is very fast. As mentioned by others Expose is the other feature that can nicely display every open window (default is F9) with live previews allowing you to select the one you want. This is far more effective than windows+tab in Vista since you can select any window you want in one click instead of flipping through linearly. In case you didn't know F11 defaults to bringing you to the Finder (desktop) by pushing everyting out of the way. Pressing F11 again or opening another application will put all the windows back the way they were.

The spatial finder is also Apples justification for the difficulty with file paths. The point with OS 9 was that the user was never supposed to remember a cmd-line style file path, instead they would remember the associated folder and finder window position. I'm probably not explaining it very well, Finder windows for each folder are supposed to have their size, position, and appearence customizable, and the Finder is supposed to remember this every time you go to the folder so that you know you are in the right one. Dragging and dropping can be accomplished by click holding an file and moving over to the desired folder which will spring open in a new Finder window allowing you to go deeper or just drop it in their. However for OS X, Apple tried to introduce a browser style interface with forward and back buttons similar to Explorer while keeping the characteristics of the spatial Finder. Apple hasn't been able to get the two to perfectly agree which is why the Finder is the way it is. It isn't sufficiently like a browser interface because of the lack of text file path, while it isn't a spatial Finder because it still doesn't consistently remember each folder's customized characteristics.

And the dock is not a taskbar replacement. If anything, it's similar to the quick launch bar in Windows. It allows fast access to frequently used applications. The ability to manage open applications and windows is done through Expose. Admittedly management of minimized windows is still a dock task, but I don't generally minimize windows but instead just open windows on top of them. It may seem cluttered to have all these windows open, but if you associate windows with their previous position it is quite critical and navigation between them is still simple via the methods I've mentioned previously and the Finder desktop is always accessible via F11.

I'm probably rambling, but a description of the spatial Finder is available here:

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/01q2/macos-x-final/macos-x-9.html

Although that was written about the original OS X 10.0 so things have improved somewhat.

 

Hrm, honestly, I think the OP's better off trying to get a T61p. After a few months of trying it, he should have a good feel of what OSX can do and what it can't - and if he doesn't like it, there's no need to force himself, unless upcoming changes will change his opinion.

Although it's nice how Apple markets its features, I don't think the name of the feature and its intent really matter to someone who's already used the system for a few months and couldn't get used to it.


[tangent]
It's sort of like how some people say they dislike Safari's font-smoothing and others start talking about how great it is and the name of the font smoothing feature and and why it's better than cleartype etc. - but really, if they don't like the way it's done, they won't care if it's called cleartype or quartz or whatever - it's just not pleasant (e.g. I hate cleartype because of the weird distorted colors and fake contrast, and no matter how someone tries to tell me how great the cleartype tech is, what it's meant to do, etc. - I still won't like it because it doesn't look good to me).
[/tangent]

 

I think that if you are not comfortable with osx, then go ahead and return back to windows. My wife hate my mac, she said "why the copy is not ctrl+c, instead of command+c?" she never use my mac in my office, one reason is b/c of the one button mouse.

Leopard will be better, but they are essentially the same.

 

Why doesn't she just get a multi-button mouse?

 

Why not just change Command and Ctrl around? Not very hard. Sounds like a typical "I don't like Mac" statement though. That along with "why is there no Start button? where is the taskbar? this sucks!"

 

You can get along pretty well with OS X, probably, especially if you want to like it. For instance, in my case, a combination of Quicksilver to launch applications, and a mouse button assigned to Expose's F9 to switch windows, I can skip the dock almost entirely. (Though, I still prefer Windows's more windows-based approach to window management to OS X's application-based approach.)

The Finder is trashy, but it's less bad once you get to know it better. Maybe check out http://www.tuaw.com/2007/08/12/love-your-finder-keyboard-shortcut-for-the-sidebar/ and listen to http://macbreaktech.com/9/living-with-the-finder/. I find that the more I look for useful functionality, the more I find. There's a lot of hidden gems in the operating system, and in the third-party free and shareware programs. I still prefer Windows, but not by a large margin.

For some of your other concerns, you can get used to the mouse movement in OS X. I'm sure you can, as the human brain is an amazingly adaptable hunk of zombiefood. I haven't, because I only ever use an external mouse through a windows box running synergy. This means I've got a mouse running with the windows acceleration model. Lucky me.

You can drag windows to a "maximized" size, and many programs retain a fullscreen function. I don't think it's really a concern.

As for the nonupgradable hard drive, I feel you. *shrug* It's a bit of an apple tradition, I guess... There's always http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/MacBook-Pro/Hard-Drive/85/5/ if you don't mind killing your warranty.

Finally, the lid being warped is a common defect, and Apple doesn't seem to be doing anything about repairs.

 

This depends on your jurisdiction. As long as you own a copy of the software disk, you are legally allowed to in the EU.

The USA, home of corporate control, you are violating civil law. Technically you could be sued. But as long as you own the software (i.e. a copy) you should be good. You just can't share how to crack the software (DMCA violations).

 

ok, I totally love this website. I had a mac, did'nt like it, went exclusively to windows based systems, enjoy it totally...however, on every other site I visit, the mac fanboy crap on Windows and vise versa. I applaude all of you posting here. very mature, and open minded. over on the other sites i frequent, the mac fanboys drive me crazy. mac rules and everything else is rubbish. glad to see its not the case here. im probably going to pic up a MB off ebay and play with it somemore later on.

 

Stick around a bit longer and check out every thread that gets 5+ pages within a day, or every thread that gets past 10 pages period (besides the stickies)

Eventually once people start getting bored, every other thread devolves back into PC vs Mac vs Spaghetti.

 

so far so good...he he

 

I guess we're more open minded here , and willing to admit to flaws and such. I love Mac but it doesn't mean Windows sucks. I prefer OS X over Windows and I blame Microsoft for the fact that the majority of computers in the world are using an OS launched in 2002, but Windows isn't terrible and the fact that Microsoft can make Windows run on virtually any PC out there should be applauded.

NBR is pretty calm compared to other forums. Less arguments and such. In other forums, even debates over whether Bart or Homer is the main character in the Simpsons can become a flame war .

 

I hate Windows, PC's suck, long live the Mac and SJob's. I only wear black turtlenecks in honour of our tecno-lord...
oops sorry for bringing to all to an end..lol

ps I actually don't mind XP, its a good system, my box at home has been running for weeks without a reboot or a glitch... that's not to shabby.

 

everyone knows that its HOMER....ha ha.....

however yes, both machines have their place.

I probably will try a mac again, however a new up to date one...i was using a G3 before...i will probably pick up a macbook on the bay soon.

 

That is likely true in the U.S. as well. The problem is, Intel versions of OS X are not for sale, so the only way to obtain it right now is buy a Mac or download it. If it were available, it would likely not violate the DMCA, or at least be a real gray area.