New Dell Inspiron 1520 and the new MBP

I know this is the Mac forum...but I was interested in seeing how you guys think the new Dell Inspiron 1520 will compare to the MBP?

These are the specs for the unannounced 1520 (from the NBR homepage):

A 15.4" widescreen Intel Santa Rosa based laptop that will offer multi-color lids. The 1520 will replace the current Inspiron e1505. The Inspiron 1520 will have the offering of internal WWAN, 802.11n, integrated 2.0MP web camera, 8-in-1 media card reader, 4 USB 2.0 ports, up to an Nvidia 8600m GT graphics card and up to a UXGA resolution display.

So what do you guys think? A possible competitor?

 

yea Jmorton I've been considering those two notebooks as well. I'm going to assume that you're looking just at the hardware aspect of these two notebooks, since they each run a different OS (although you can run bootcamp/parallels on the mbp). The MBP will probably come with the better stock hardware in terms of memory and processor, but it's probably going to be more expensive than the yet to be priced 1520. If they had equal specs, the price is probably not going to differ that much, but you never know. On another note, the MBP will probably be thinner than the upcoming inspiron 1520, (MBP is only 1 inch thick) and it comes with a built in microphone, which I believe the inspiron won't.

 

The 1520 has a built in microphone array

 

The MBP is really a pro machine in the sense that it really compares to the XPS line instead of the Inspiron. The initial specs are all you have mentioned so far and that doesn't tell the whole story as far as comparison. Again the XPS or even the Latidude line will compare closer to the MBP. If the initial Inspiron specs satisfy what you are looking for then go for it. Now if you are thinking about tasting the waters of OS X then get the MBP, if all you plan to do with it is install Windows and use it as a Windows machine primarily then save the time and money and get the Dell.

 

Does this mean a built-in working mic or only that you can connect an external mic?

We're speculating in another thread. A Dell person, YoJr, writes that it does not but there are holes next to the web cam gthat sure looks like mics.

 

Don't think 1520 would be close to MBP in price. Other than that, looks a worthy competitor to MBP - atleast going by the specs in the Dell forum

 

Build quality will be very different. The Dell machine should be cheaper, but heavier, thicker. It's really a different choice. You will choose the Dell to save $. You will choose the MBP for its weight, style and OS.

 

Yep, different market segments. Though you would not neceassarily choose MBP for OS, maybe for the design and the associated "cool" factor that comes with a Apple.

 

Well the first difference is obviously no OS X on the Dell. Barring that, the Dell will be made of cheap plastic and will be thick and creaky if it's anything like the e1505. My wife's Inspiron 6000D is a boat anchor compared to my MBP. Now, if they have changed those things in the 1520, and added the 8600, then they do have a worthy competitor.

 

The Inspiron series is a budget series laptop and it will never have the quality of a MacBook Pro. The MacBook Pro is similar to the Dell XPS series. You have to compare two similar products. The Inspiron series is similar to the MacBook, but it cannot compete with the MacBook Pro.

 

What Homer said. None of Dell's product lines really form good comparisons to the MBP, but probably the XPS would be closest in the sense that if the XPS line had a 15" model, it would probably target the same market as the MBP.

That said, for those features you listed:

The MBP lid comes in one color, but it's a very good one

The MBP has only a 0.3MP web camera. (someone confirm this?)

The MBP does not have a media card reader.

The MBP has 2 USB ports.

UXGA = nonwidescreen 1600x1200
MBP has WXGA+: widescreen 1440x900.

I'd still go with the MBP over the Inspiron anyday though . The Inspirons are really not built very well.

 

If you meant to say 1.3 Mega Pixels? Yes. I do not think the differences between 1.3-2.0 Mega pixels is significant though. I think it should be 5.0 Mega pixels.

 

Hrm, a lot of the info I've found says that the the iSight cam is still only 640x480 VGA, which would = 0.3MP unfortunately. I would love for this to not be the case though...are you sure? I can't find any official documentation on this.

 

Really? I think I saw information about 0.3 Mega pixel web cameras. I assumed it was a typo. Even cheap cell phone cameras have 1.3 Mega pixels. If it only has 0.3 Mega pixels, it is worthless.

 

My friend has a new Santa Rosa MBP and it definitely has 640x480 resolution on the isight camera.

 

What is the point of a 0.3 Mega Pixel camera??? What is wrong with Apple?

 

oh my god .. comparing the Dell Inspiron to the Apple MacBook Pro is like comparing .. err .. apples and oranges! ..

there is absolutely NO comparison! ..

not to say that Dells aren't good .. I have a Dell 6400 .. which I was pretty happy with, before I discovered Apple notebooks .. (and, of course, there's been no looking back) .. from what I remember the Dell held up pretty well .. except that the optical drive went bad .. the screen wasn't very evenly lit .. but, overall, it served me well for the year or so I used it ..

I don't think you should be concerned about build quality, unless you're going to be using your laptop for more than a couple of hours a day .. if you're using your laptop for more than just checking your email and browsing some sites, you'll want something sturdy and reliable .. for a very frequent notebook user, once you switch to a better quality product .. you being to realize and appreciate things like a firmer keyboard, a more responsive track-pad, and so on ..

 

Agreed. Inspiron is for home use and Latitude for work and hence a big jump in price. I guess the new Vostro line, the new Latitude, is a more fair comparison.

I would have bought an IBM T61 now if it was not totally out of my private budget. I have a 6 month old T60 for work which is great except for looks. Extreme build quality and will take a fall without a problem etc. Great screen with the only drawback that you can't really set it *really* bright when being outdoor. I will probably go for the new 1420 or 1520 when it comes out, hopefully next Monday.

 

Comparing Dell to Apple could create a gravitational singularity..be careful http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singularity

 

I don't know, what exactly is wrong with 640x480 for a laptop webcam?

Granted, I never really use webcams anyway, but at least from what I've seen, the video quality seems more than acceptable in Photo Booth, iChat, etc....... especially for doing online video conferencing/chatting/etc. it seems like for smooth video you wouldn't want it to be much higher than 640x480 anyway.

For the purposes its intended for, I guess I don't see a benefit of a much higher res really in a laptop webcam.

It seems like the other big thing people use webcams for is YouTube videos, but the res on those normally seems pretty low too.

 

I do not have a use for a web camera, so this is not a big problem for me. However, I would prefer a higher resolution than 0.3 mega pixels. A 1.3 mega pixel camera will produce a slightly higher quality picture for a few extra dollars. The price of 1.3 mega pixel web cams are so cheap, it would not even affect the price of the laptop. If customers had a choice of a 0.3 and a 1.3 mega pixel web camera for no extra charge, I think they would choose the 1.3 mega pixel web camera. A 1.3 mega pixel web camera can run at a lower settings, it is better in every way.

 

Unfortunately for web cams it really doesn't need to be much more than what Apple's iSight is. Yeah, just to satisfy the customer Apple should at least place a 1.3MP cam in the Macbooks but it won't matter. Most pictures and videos on your web cam are done in close up form and therefore don't need a large size picture.
A 2MP cam and a 640x480 cam will show the same picture if both shot pics at the same size of 640x480. The more mega pixels the larger the picture but it doesn't affect quality. It's all about the lens. Several of my friends have 2MP cell phone cams and their pics don't look as good as my digital camera set at 1.8 MP.

 

the 1520 is supposedly coming out on June 27 as wiki states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Inspiron

 

I think it will be a lot like the way it is now. The Dell will be a better value, ie will offer more bang for the buck. The Dell will be cheaper, will have higher-res screen options and will prolly be 1/4" thicker and 1 pound heavier.

Not sure why people think the Inspiron is NOT comparable with the MBP.

Latitudes are better built, but cost more, and seem to have both crappier video card options and for some reason the LCDs on the ones I have seen are pretty crappy, ie kinda dim looking with poo viewing angles.

The video card options (even the 7300, X1300 and X1400 of the outgoing model) and the higher res screens alone make an Inspiron v. Macbook comparison less apt. Also the Inspiron will have the Santa Rosa platform and the Macbook does not.

It's not so much that I love Dell, so much as some of you seem to have an irrational hatred for Dell. They are what they are, and that is generally a good buy for the money.

Check my sig, I've rocked numerous Powerbooks and numerous Dells. I think I can speak fairly on the matter.

 

Well, while we seem to be comparing dells and macs: anyone have any thoughts on the relative build quality of the latitudes and the MBP? Specifically I was thinking about the D830 as compared to an MBP.

 

Latitudes are fairly well built.

The main issues are:

1. The LCD screens on all of the ones I've seen are subpar - dim, poor viewing angles.

2. The video cards are kinda weak.

 

It is hard to compare a business laptop like a Latitude to a MBP.

 

Yeah, they have features like DNA identification and eyeball scanners and stuff.

 

It is pretty hard to compare. The Latitude in general is a bit "harder/durable". It has a bunch of security features that the MBP lacks as well. It's targeted at a completely different audience.

For those overlapping features that the 2 laptops share in common -

in addition to the non-consumer and just weak GPUs and screens as the count mentioned above, I find Dell keyboards to be abysmal compared to the MBP. I've no experience with the D830, but my Latitude keyboard flexes so much that the entire thing literally bounces up and down with each keystroke (actually I don't think this is normal even for a Dell, because everyone else says their Latitude keyboard is decent). The keys themselves are a bit flatter and stiffer than the MBP's though.

 

Weird, I swear I like my E1505 keyboard more than my MBP keyboard.

It's just easier to type on my Dell. The MBP keyboard is quality, I just have a hard time typing on it - a lot of typos. Could just be me though.

 

Yea, but I think my keyboard's abnormal though. The keys are very distinctly business-type and of good quality. It just dips and flexes like crazy...so I don't think it's very representative of Latitude keyboards in general.

 

Yeah, I think just two very different approaches to keyboards. The MBP keyboard has a generally very "soft" feel (not that it flexes, just that it has a very soft feel to type with). I usually have to adjust when moving from an MBP/PBG4 style keyboard and a more typical laptop keyboard.

 

I'd like to see what the final weight of the E1520 will be. When I bought my MBP I looked at the E1405 too, but at 5.3lbs it's hardly any more portable than my MBP's 5.6lbs. The new MBPs are even lighter at 5.4lbs thanks to LED displays. I wouldn't be surprise if the E1520 is a pound heavier and anything over 6lbs is too heavy to be considered portable in my book.

On the issue of webcams, do those manufacturers who say they have 1.3MP webcams actually have that many pixels on the CCD? When I looked at external webcams a few years ago, there were many that claimed 1.3MP, but the CCD only provided true hardware 640x480 or even didn't bother saying which probably meant less. Perhaps things have improved since then, but I wouldn't be surprised if most webcams are actually 640x480 in hardware and the rest software enhancements.

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/webcam_communications/webcams/devices/243&cl=my,en

Something like the above is the modern version of a higher-end model that I looked at years ago and is still essentially the same thing. It's only true hardware 640x480 and the 1.3MP is software based and only for photos. I think that is the other marketing trick. I'm pretty sure pretty much all webcams can only record video at 640x480, higher MP ratings are only for still photos, but most other manufacturers always quote the photo resolution since it's higher. Of course, the more common use for webcams would be the video function anyways where everyone is pretty even.

 

I'd like to have a notebook with metal casing though.

MBP's design is way better than 1520. If you want to compare Apple to DELL, compare MBP with M1330.

 

Well, at least they're both better than leather (VX2, Thinkpad Reserve) at least

 

I just have one question. Why does Apple have to call their built-in camera "iSight"? As if they've revolutionized or invented something that can't be found anywhere else? Perhaps they're trying to compensate for something - i.e. a 0.3 megapixel camera versus other manufacturers' 1.3 and 2.0 megapixel webcams.

And now I'm not arguing for one over the other, especially as I am not familiar with Macs, but the 2.0 megapixel webcam on the upcoming 1520 supposedly has some sort of face sensing technology that will follow you as you move.

 

It's just because 'iSight' is the brand name for Apple's webcams (the name came from Apple's standalone camera, which was called iSight).

This is like asking why Logitech calls their camera "QuickCam"; it's just a brand name. It doesn't specifically imply it is some amazing new invention or something. I'll take specific brand names as opposed to generic terms, personally.

Apple did this with their implementation of wifi as well, using the general brand name of "AirPort".

It doesn't have anything to do with revolutionizing anything, and Apple's hardly the only company to apply a brand name to a generic function/feature.

 

Those face sensing things don't work. Maybe they do if you have light skin on a darker background, but it didn't work for me at all (I'm Indian) because it kept following my white iPod dock around (I moved the laptop around). I thought it was pretty useless.

Whats cooler is the face recognition software thats on the Lenovo Y series. I don't know if that works though

 

My point though, as far as built-in webcams are concerned, is none of the other laptop makers follow this sort of practice. Again, I could be off-base here, but Logitech makes their own cameras....seeing as much of Apple's hardware is manufactured by Foxconn (and others presumably), perhaps the built-in iSight is as well? If Dell calls their new built-in webcams "Dell-I-oooos", will it make it any less generic?

Simply put, I just don't know why Apple markets everything as an image, rather than presenting things in a more useful fashion, say in terms of specifications. I respect the ways in which Apple has implemented certain features into their products, but I can't respect or understand the closed and secretive nature of their practices. Case in point: I know I don't speak for everyone but I do know there are a lot of technophiles out there who like to know all the details and specs of the products they buy, and with Apple, there are many particulars they do not disclose to the consumers or at least make very difficult to obtain. Part of the whole closed system way of doing things I suppose...

Oh and to the question at large here on this thread: I never was a fan of Macs, and actually have never used one extensively. That said, I am thoroughly disappointed with the new Inspiron 1520 set to replace the E1505; plastic materials and white bumpers notwithstanding, I feel that the latter notebook was an excellent mainstream choice and compromise when considering all other factors, namely price. Now assuming I could "milk" the free-after-rebate Ipod and printer for all they're worth on Ebay or the like, along with student discount, I think the new MBP is a very good choice. Though even at $1600-1700 after taxes is still a lot for a notebook in my case.

 

For those talking about megapixels and webcams, there is so much more that goes into it than that. Megapixels are WAY down the line when it comes to quality factors. The lens, software, internet connection, compression are all much more important than the shear resolution. You could be using an HD camera for video chat, but if Skype compresses the hell out of it, it will look terrible. In my limited experience with video chat and web cams, the iSight performs very well.

**EDIT**

Marketing. By all accounts the iPhone is, at best, almost as capable as a WM or Palm device, but the Apple marketing machine has turned into the product of the year.

 

Sorry, I should have given you more of a history.

Apple introduced a separate external firewire webcam which they called the iSight back in 2003 or so. The iSight was the brand name for it, and it was a webcam they did design themselves, so it isn't any different really than any other company that makes a product and gives it a brand name.

When Apple decided to start integrating webcams into their desktop iMacs and laptops, they just used the same iSight brand name, for consistency. It isn't really about trying to make it seem like it is amazingly different than any other webcam, etc. In this case, it was just about consistency.

Yes though, of course Apple cares about image and branding. So do many other companies. Why do you think every laptop maker comes up with names like TrueBright, X-BRITE, etc. for their glossy screens, for example? Frankly, this is one area where Apple hasn't gone overboard, and they simply advertise a glossy or matte screen option for their laptops, without any specific "brand names".

In terms of why Apple markets things more as brands, etc. than just the generic terms? Because for the most part, most consumers don't necessarily care or know about those things. And if Apple can contribute to their image by marketing wireless as AirPort instead of "802.11abgn", I don't see this as so bad. And it's not like they don't disclose what AirPort actually is (hell, in their marketing materials they specifically talk about 802.11n, etc.). Wrapping something up in a more friendly "brand name" instead of just the raw technical terms helps make the product more friendly/appealing to the average consumer, but they also provide plenty of detail and information about the specifics for those that want/need it.

But what do you mean that there are particulars Apple doesn't disclose to consumers? Generally speaking, almost all major particulars are disclosed to consumers who want to look them up; i.e. the "specs" section of most any product they make, which goes into extensive detail about exactly what components/etc. are in a machine:

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html

Honestly, I don't see that many areas where Apple is dramatically more "closed" in terms of disclosing specs/etc. to anyone else.

 

Because images and names sell. People are willing to pay a premium for what they think is "better than generic", even if it's not. The entire pharmaceutical industry is based on this idea.

As a non-technophile consumer, would you be willing to dish out more money for a generic 1.3MP camera that every other laptop in the world has, or for something that's labeled "isight" and attached to a big name? I'm surprised Apple didn't go so far as to call it "patent pending" just to make it seem more unique

But as Zadillo said, every company in the world does this if they can.

 

My Logitech Quickcam for Notebooks works really well. Even in lousy conditions. It follows the face features. I really doubt that Dell have not tested this since it's not on a swivel.

 

Sorry, I meant to include my take on this Inspiron 1520 vs MBP debate, which I added to my above post.

As to the quality of built-in webcams, I cannot speak to any of the notebooks that include one. And the megapixel race of digital cameras, unbeknownst to the casual consumer, is total BS. Now that is a good example of deceptive marketing, which has now been replaced by the ISO race - arguably an even less important factor in quality.

Some would say the iPhone is actually not as capable as many other phones, lacking in some crucial technologies, i.e. 3G tech. Little known to the outside world is the (hopefully) forthcoming Meizu M8 which will trump the iPhone in every way. Ok, yes we all know it's an iPhone clone.

 

First, I think it will have to remain to be seen how nice the Meizu M8 actually is, as at least right now, the price they are saying it will be (I think $200-300) does not seem to match up with some of the claimed specs (16GB of Flash memory, etc.).

Either way, for it to trump the iPhone in "every way", it would also need to have the same sort of UI features that the iPhone does; from what I've read so far, that isn't the case.

The interesting aspect of the iPhone is more going to be the user interface and how the apps work. I don't even just mean the multitouch stuff, but the actual application design and how a user interacts with it.

As for 3G tech, we'll just have to see; we already know 3G is coming in the next version of the iPhone (Apple has already said as much when it was first unveiled), but we'll have to see what the practical differences are.

I suspect people are making the same mistake with the Meizu as they do with MP3 players; they underestimate the importance of UI design, etc. and think that as long as you cram in more tech and features that it makes a better product.

The iPhone certainly has its fair share of tech crammed in as well (wifi/bluetooth/multitouch/etc.) but it is more in service to the interface design and application design.

-Zadillo

 

A follow-up:

First off, thanks Zadillo for the list of specs on the MBP. But I must point out a few things. Here's the display info on the 15.4" model:

"15.4-inch (diagonal) TFT LED backlit display with support for millions of colors; optional glossy widescreen display" How many millions? 16.2 or 16.7? Now something like that doesn't matter to me personally, but I have seen plenty of people on forums for whom such info is very important. Also it does not say what company manufactures the hard drives. This is also quite valuable to many. Ok ok, to be fair Dell does not publish this info about the E1505 either on their site (as far as I know), but I have read on numerous occasions people trying to obtain more detailed info about their Apple products without much luck.

Just off the top of my head - unless they have changed it, Apple does not publish any info regarding sound quality on the iPod line, such as signal-to-noise ratio. This has led to much speculation in the digital audio player community that iPods have (had?) much lower audio quality compared to other DAPs on the market. One would think that audio quality specs would be one of the main features a DAP maker would wish to tout if superior to the competition. Creative has always listed signal-to-noise ratios right up front with the other specs on their players.

 

Let's not confuse the appearance of the UI with the functionality. There are many players on the market that might not have the simplistic and clean UI look that the iPod has, but by many accounts some of these other DAPs provide a much more comprehensive and useful UI over the iPod line.

edit:
I suppose we're getting off topic and I apologize for that. I was simply wanting to interject some apprehension regarding certain taken-for-granted factors of Apple/Macs.

 

Fair enough on the iPod issue (the specs they do list are at: http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html which does at least include frequency response range.

Where does Creative list signal-to-noise ratios right up front with the other specs on their players though? Looking at http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=14331&nav=1 for example I don't see that.

As to the MBP stuff; Apple includes a utility called "System Profiler" (easily accessible by going to "About this Mac" and then clicking "More Information"). Detailed specs for all hardware components can be obtained from there, such as hard drive manufacturer, optical drive manufacturer, etc.

Exactly what issues have you read of with owners trying to get this kind of detailed information without much luck?

If the complaint is that Apple doesn't list the manufacturers of the hard drives when you buy a machine, that complaint could be leveled about just about any hardware company.

As for the number of colors the display is capable of showing, it's basically the same as any other laptop. Going back to Dell, they don't even say at all the number of colors when you view info on Screen & Graphics:

So again, I'm not sure why you're singling Apple out here.

-Zadillo

 

I'm not confusing appearance of the UI with functionality (I assume you mean the general look and feel, etc.).

I think some more recent DAPs have possibly come "close" in terms of easy of use (perhaps most obviously the Samsung MP3 players, which went ahead and tried to mimic the fundamental UI concepts). I'm not sure which DAP on the market I could point to that is MUCH MORE comprehensive and useful than the iPod though.

Either way, again, functionality and appearance are not mutually exclusive. Something can have a clean UI while still being functional and easy to use.

But ease of use is an important consideration. From all the phones I've used (regular phones like a RAZR and smartphones running Windows Mobile and a Treo 650, which is my main phone right now), I think there is something to be said for the iPhone UI in terms of what has been shown.

And I don't just mean the appearance of it (the appearance can be mimicked with a skin, as Meizu is doing), but the actual way it is interacted with.

I understand your perceived apprehension, but I'm not sure if anything you've said so far is actually backed up by facts.

You've said the Meizu M8 is going to trump the iPhone in every way, seemingly ignoring the underlying OS, etc. You've said that there are DAPs with MUCH more comprehensive and functional UI's than the iPod, without giving any examples.

You've criticized Apple for making it hard to find out detailed specs, and said that Mac owners have had trouble finding out information like who manufactures their hard drives, even though they make this very simple for any mac owner to find detailed info on who manufacturers the components, and I can't find any evidence for this either.

And most of the things you've said you're apprehensive about Apple (using brand names, not providing some detailed info) are not really different from other companies.

 

It's probably better for Apple not to advertise the # of colors on the display anyway. Fewer lawsuits