Not happy with Macbook Pro 15"

Hey all,
I'm not really happy with what I spent on the MacBook Pro 15". I got the non-retina model and already spent around 1900 after tax. The question is should I take it back and get the retina model for about 400 more? I could get a refurbished 15" retina with 512GB of flash, the 1GB graphics instead of 512MG, 2.6Ghz instead of 2.3, and the retina display.

The only thing keeping me from doing it is that I know there's no Ethernet connection, and no CD drive. I'm not sure of the other limitations.

I bought it to record music using Studio One, but I'm kind of regretting over-paying for a MacBook instead of going with a Sager or something similar for a lot cheaper. However, I might consider the retina model if you folks believe it's worth it. Thanks!

 

Yeah, you could have gotten a much better price by shopping around a bit. The "classic" 15-inch MacBook Pro, at least in base form (2.3 GHz, 512 MB GPU), isn't really worth the money unless you got it super-cheap, say less than $1500.

I don't believe the Retina is worth the money at any price. The construction feels flimsy. I don't like the action of the keys. The system is not upgradable unless you want to pay an exorbitant price for 2nd-hand OEM or OWC SSDs, and you're permanently stuck with whatever RAM you buy. You'll also want to factor in the cost of AppleCare, as I would deem it essential for a Retina model because you will pay out the nose to repair it should something go wrong after the standard warranty expires. As you mentioned Ethernet and optical, if you use these items, you'll need to carry an external dongle and drive, respectively, so that's something else to bear in mind.

As far as the 800-lb gorilla in the room, aka the display itself, I think it's nothing more than a gimmick. It's too reflective for my liking. The only way to mitigate it is to leave the screen at full brightness all the time. Any applications that have not been optimized for the ultra-high pixel density look terrible.

Now you're no doubt going to get others on here who will say that the Retina display is the best thing in the history of ever. Those opinions are perfectly valid, too. In the end, the best thing to do would be to head to your local Apple Store, Best Buy, wherever, and play with the Retina display yourself to see if you think you can work within its limitations. Be sure to turn down the screen brightness from its maximum to see if you can live with the glare while you're doing so.

Good luck.

 

Given that I dont mind much glossy or not displays, I think the display is pretty worth it. When I had one it really bumped my productivity (I did use it at its true res). However I didnt feel that the cost was actually worth it due to the reduced and not improved mobility it provided me. Given that you went with the mbp 15, the last is a pretty moot point

Regarding flimsy, its not. it will never be anything more than apple, good build quality, good QA, but not really sturdy in the way that I want

 

Now, Ive got retina in a MBP I wouldn't even blink at getting more retina anything.

No ethernet = Thunderbolt to ethernet adaptor
No CD = USB superdrive.
Solved your problems.

As for the gloss if it bother you why buy something Apple?

My Girlfriend is a composer and use's logic on her own MBP when away from her Mac Pro.
2 complaints she has about my Macbook Pro are:
1. WHERE IS THE CD DRIVE!!! She doesn't like carrying extra stuff!
2. !!!! I have give apple even more money for RAM and SSD that I cant upgrade
3. Who needs a retina for Music? Are you blind? No.....The get a normal MBP

I on the other hand Only use mine for Internet, iTunes, the odd Game, Facebook Thats really about it £3000 is a lot of money for just that but DAMN EVERYTHING LOOKS AMAZING!!!!

For you, your better off investing your money in Logic Pro.
Also the price of an Apple is higher but your paying for Apple and everything that means around quality and user interface.

 

$1900 seems awfully high for a MBP classic... I agree with saturnotaku in that the MBP isn't an appealing buy unless you get it under $1500. Also that the Retina display, as of now, is a bit of a gimmick. If anything, I'd wait a generation or two for a Retina model if you want; generally, it's not such a good idea to buy a first-generation anything (computers, cars, whatever).

Points (1) and (2) are clearly spelled out on Apple's website, or wherever you buy the laptop from (or review website). Shouldn't be surprised that it doesn't come with an optical drive, or that the parts are sealed-in, soldered-in, etc. Anyway, 3k quid for an internet-only laptop is quite a lot... even for a "fashionable" laptop.

 

I'm going to be that Anti-Apple guy.

I'd return it and go with a Sager or workstation class laptop (Precision/Lenovo W/EliteBook) and use Reaper or Pro Tools. A MBP should never be used for recording work, only for playback, in my opinion.

Take this from someone that has used both for mastering/recording and effect creation. (I used to do bands, now I mostly do professional theatre.)

 

Right now, I don't think that the rMBP models are quite there yet. Not all apps take advantage of the higher resolution (or scale properly), many websites don't scale properly, and you will likely access a few websites that will cause stuttering when scrolling up and down (Facebook comes to mind). The idea is right but I think Apple released the rMBP models a generation too soon. However, you should be able to find a good deal on the standard 15" MBP. Microcenter was charging $1599 for their units (new) and I was able to get Best Buy to price match them. I definitely wouldn't pay $1900 for one though. In then end, I spent a total of $1750 for my 15" MBP by the time I added a snap case, 1TB hybrid hard drive, and 16GB of RAM. Return the unit and buy it from a store that is charging a better price. If you are in the U.S., this shouldn't be an issue. Even now, Microcenter is still charging $1599 for the standard 15" MBP. I don't know where you live but you should see if you have one of those stores near you. Best Buy will price match them.

As for the comment about not using Macs for recording and only for playback, I'm not really sure where that comes from. There are a bunch of Mac programs for recording and programming music, many of which are used by professional producers. In my opinion, I would never want to do this on a Windows machine especially when Pro Tools is available for both and Apple's software isn't that bad either.

 

Have to second this. our work people have all gone with workstation laptops just for the low DPC latency and port selection ( firewire and expresscard )

 

When is Apple coming out with the learning to count assistant? J/K.

There's always compromises with buying Apple depending on your viewpoint, it's how badly do you want the build philosophy they have chosen, aesthetics and OS X. And does it fit your needs.

 

"When is Apple coming out with the learning to count assistant? J/K."
LOL fair point I have 7 week old baby sense is something you lose after lack of sleep ha

"There's always compromises with buying Apple depending on your viewpoint, it's how badly do you want the build philosophy they have chosen, aesthetics and OS X. And does it fit your needs."
You could say the same about windows though? I have bought an Alienware laptop just to game on because I can't do it as well on a Mac. Though I will always pick up my MacBook Pro to do anything else on it as I feel windows is so heavily compromised, the user experience is shocking on windows compared with OSX.

"Anyway, 3k quid for an internet-only laptop is quite a lot... even for a "fashionable" laptop."
Yes, Yes it is. BUT wow its awesome. Its so much more than fashionable.
I spent £35,000 on an Audi A4 Black Edition. All that does is take me to work... Would you view that in the same way? Its all about how that product makes you feel as it what its worth to you. My gf has a 1970 MGB which I hate and must cost us £3000 a year in unknown reasons to me lol but the product makes her feel amazing so its worth it (somehow)

 

Well, I'm just a function over fashion sort of guy (by that, I mean that the first takes importance over the second, but they're not mutually exclusive). True, I don't drive a fancy car (just a $9k Nissan Altima), but I could have certainly afforded a nice luxury car if I wanted to (I'd had my eye on a BMW 5 series for the longest time, though not that "long" since I'm just a college student). Though honestly, I'd realistically buy a more cost-effective (yet comfortable car); I particularly like my mom's 2011 Toyota Avalon. Not as prestigious as a BMW, or an equivalent Audi, Benz, etc, but it was also very cheap for what it offered (~$34k).

Not sure what you're talking about with the "shocking experience" on Windows compared to OSX. I actively use all three major systems and they all are very functional and get the job done (barring software that isn't cross-platform). I mean, if we're talking about Windows 8 on the desktop, I can see your point (Metro was a huge mistake outside of tablets), but Windows 7 is damn near the perfect Windows release so far. Tried Windows 8 on a tablet though (Thinkpad X61t) and I didn't even like Metro on that and ended up installing (and loving) Ubuntu 12.10 and the Unity interface (with the Amazon spyware disabled). As for OSX (Mountain Lion), it's certainly functional and it gets the job done pretty well (both on my virtual hackintosh and on approved Apple hardware), but I can't see myself justifying the cost of a MBP or rMBP if I had to buy my laptop all over again. Sure, they look somewhat interesting (though on a college campus, Apple computers are stupidly cliche), but if I were to spend $1500+ on a laptop, I want it to be durable enough to survive repeated drops and other physical abuse, something that's exclusive to business-class laptops. But if I was really, really pushed to buy an expensive internet laptop, I'd probably go for the Google Pixel...

But, to each their own.

 

The issue I have with Macs in general is that the cost never justifies the product. Take for example the Mac Pro I had to build for QLab 2 years ago. Base model off of their website vs building from scratch with the EXACT same parts, with a $200 case, was $1000. (Now the difference is almost $2000) Many of these parts also had 3-5 year warranties as well, much better than Apple's 1 year.

Hell, I built the 'Mac Pro copycat', and loaded OSX on it flawlessly for a friend to do some graphical design on, with this sleeker case (in my opinion).

It's just crazy what they charge for the style and name.

 

They don't always charge more. The MacBook Air is still priced very competitively with other ultrabooks. Some Wintel models have touch screens or higher resolution monitors but the MacBook Air will trump them with battery life and it has been managing to come in $100-$200 less than comparably equipped ultrabooks. The iMac is also priced up there with other all-in-one desktops that have the same internal specs.

Plus, many people do find that the extra cost does justify having, what they think is, a better experience. I spent ~$100 more on my MacBook Pro than I could a Windows machine with the same specs but (this includes having an all aluminum design, large trackpad, and a glass covered display) but it is well worth it for me. In fact, I will continue to pay that extra ~$100 if it means never going back to a Windows machine.

 

While I don't agree on the never going back to a Windows machine part. I do agree that some Apple products are decently priced and on others that are in my opinion overpriced, you still can't compare them purely on a spec basis. The macbooks have a measure of build quality that some Windows laptops do not have for one thing. In my opinion, it is still possible to find something as well built on the Windows side for less, but taking factors like that into account helps bridge the price gap somewhat.

There's also the beauty is in the eyes of the beholder factor as well as the OS itself, if someone prefers OS X, the by all means, go for a mac, it'll give you a more enjoyable experience. I used to be anti Apple at one time, but I've moved past that, their products aren't for me, but that doesn't mean that they aren't good products, heck, I completely agree that the macbook air si so far the best ultrabook form factor available for now. Asus came close with its Zenbooks, but ultimately failed a little when it comes to build quality.

 

Disagree with this 100%. You lost me the moment you said the part I highlighted. 99.9% of professional recording studios use Macs. You'd be hard-pressed to find any major recording labels using Windows machines to master the recordings. Just as Windows' claim to fame is dominating the enterprise world, the Macs' claim to fame as been in the music recording world so please don't try and change the inevitable because of your personal opinions.

 

Sony BMG New York & L.A, Sony BMG Canada, Virgin Music UK, EMI Canada, 1/3 to 1/2 of Universals production studios. and those are just off the top of my head from listening to collegues

for small runners you have Deadmau5, LMFAO ( disbanded ), DaftPunk and many others. the majority are running ProTools etc on workstations especially those needing to do a lot of realtime overlay.

there has been a LARGE shift in the A/V market since 2009, strangely it is Nashville which is reluctant to change

for TV audio I can from hands on experience say Discovery Channel, Discovery Canada, SHAW, TLC, A&E, Syfi and HBO are primarily windows based ( win 7 Pro ) in their audio work as well.


YES for commercials, sound bites and fast mixes I still see lots of Mac's. ( now don't forget this can also change by region as I normally work in Canada, Asia and Europe and not the USA )

 

I'll have to verify your statements before I accept them because I do music and I'm around this environment quite a bit and I'm hard-pressed to find much in the way of Windows being used. Video production, yes, Audio production, hardly.
Also the member stated "A MBP should never be used to for audio recording" and that's just a plain ridiculous statement since Macs have been the dominant recording medium.

Don't take this the wrong way but I'm not surprised by your reply at all. Over the past 12 months I've noticed that NBR has become very Windows-centric even on the Mac forum which is unfortunate. Seems as though anytime someone inquires about a Mac they are directed to buy a Windows machine. Take care.

 

Because the vast majority of the time, a Windows machine is a better choice. A better and a wider choice of internal hardware, better screens, more end-user upgradability, availability of on-site and accidental damage warranties: all things Apple lacks at the moment.

Now with the MBA upgraded to Haswell and the massive improvement in battery life, it's a much more appealing choice for those looking at Ultrabooks. The rest of the Apple notebook lineup is underwhelming.

 

Oh I can accept the never statement is a bit much, but I think we can all accept that other OS's have encroached heavily on what has been traditionally Apple/OSX focused industries ( I have even seen Linux boxes ), while Apple has focused much more on the general consumer aspect and marketability / ease of use.

right now it seems to be no one in most creative industries cares what OS an application runs on as long as the application works for them, and with most applications cross platform now it is not exactly a big surprise. Businesses and individuals in the creative industries are now focusing much more on productivity and legacy support to existing hardware which can be extremely expensive.

Saturn made one very good point, many of the medium and larger outfits were drawn in a lot by the NBD onsite support options and competitive workstations. plus direct support from AVID, Ableton, Sony, Cakewalk/Roland, Cubase, Presonus, and FL that I run into regularly makes the waters much muddier to operators, IT and execs alike.

 

Jarhead I was generally talking about Windows OS full stop. Windows 7 is good but its no OSX. Having said that it is my opinion and I value yours equally.

Most of the top London studios still use Mac as the main systems as well as the prague recording studios.

So its not a windows world everywhere.

My partners studio use Mac's and windows as slaves they use Mac's simply because there are more reliable than a windows machine. She gets annoyed just how much the windows based machines crash and cause huge issues. They are top end systems as well.

Given she is a composer she has this advice for you:
Keep the Macbook Pro and if your not doing any midi and just recording then get pro-tools.
If your just returning it due to cost then its not really a good reason as its the right choose of computer for this industry. You should always use what your comfortable with it really is personal preference. Her choice Mac and she has been doing this 15yrs.

Hans Zimmer use's a PC and Cubase, Abbey Road / Angel studios both use Mac including Pro Tools

 

After reading this thread I had to point out one thing that seems to be missed. Apple controls every aspect of what goes into the final product. I just received a Sager P8250 for gaming yesterday. And man she is a sweet beast. Top of the line everything. As I jumped into the Win 8 environment (what a horrible mess) I found myself trying to turn off every wing ding feature that got in my way to actually getting something done. I downloaded 3DMark 11 to appreciate the power of the 780M and .... the computer crashed due to driver instability. Huh. Rebooted and it ran it again - awesome! Wait the benchmark is stuck at 60fps. I am still trying to figure out what's going on (seperate issue). I have other little issues with drivers throughout. But the computer is still awesome. Runs games like a champ.

But I still reach for my macbook for day to day stuff. It all works. No driver instabilities. No burning time on tweaking, fixing or figuring out. None of that. It gets stuff done. And this is critical - I have to manage terebytes of photos via photoediting and organizing software. I can't afford a driver being not quite compatable at the wrong moment. It this driver instability that made me switch to OS X so long ago when I lost 2 weeks of video editing due to the video card driver crapping the bed and then corrupting my work in the process.

Everything Apple puts into the laptop is designed to be in the laptop with no "3rd party" support. Is it perfect always? No but it sure as heck much more reliable than a Windows notebook with support from multiple 3rd party manufacturers. This is where I put my value in spending a couple of hundred more than a Windows laptop. Ya it looks nice. Yes the solid aluminum body is great. The touchpad to this day is unbeatable.

Each has their place. I enjoy both worlds for what they offer (well except Win 8 - I hope it grows on me enough to be usable. Win 7 is so much more intuitive than Win 8).

Well this is my perspective at least. As with all internet posts, the above is mostly my opinion and your mileage may vary. Have a great day!

 

Driver support won't be at 100% with new OSes like 8, whereas 7 is pretty mature at this point. My two cents, but the last time I ever ran into driver problems in the Windows environment was back in Windows 98 and DLL Hell. But XP and later have been pretty damn stable for me and I trust these modern Big Three (Win, OSX, Linux) with my important work pretty equally.

Apple's not the only OEM that centralizes support. When was the last time anyone called Biostar or Foxconn directly for laptop motherboard support, for example? You call the laptop seller instead.

 

The only Windows drivers that give me trouble are for the GPU, and it's pretty easy to change those to fall back on a set that previously worked. I can't remember the last time I had an issue with something like a sound card, motherboard chipset, hard drive controller, etc. At least in Windows you have the option to revert back. To do so on OS X requires a complete reinstall of operating system. Now to Apple's credit, blatant graphic problems that are related to the software are extremely rare.

 

It's been a while for me to even be on notebook forums, as I've been primarily on my work laptop and desktop when I get home. FYI the best combination is a Mac Laptop and a Gaming Desktop. Nothing is going to touch that or even come close... Gaming on the Go is actually a Myth once you get out of your college days (For me at least) and it's just a situation where you think it's ideal to be on the go but you really don't go anywhere with your gaming laptop. Anyways I was looking at a 1600 dollar Macbook Pro ANti Glare at Microcenter and after having my Macbook Retina for about 7 months I'm very happy with the purchase the Macbook Pro Classic is just too heavy for me, and with advacments with network Storage I don't have a problem with the small HDD on the Retinas. HDMI is a very VALUABLE aspect the retina has over the Classic.

I gave my Alienware away because i've discovered that beyond my 780 GTX desktop and my Macbook Retina, Ipad, and Work Dell Latitute I have everything covered.

 

I think its a little ironic saying you don't care about not having large amounts of internal storage yet focus on the portability of the rMBP compared to the standard MBP. When on the go, network storage isn't an option. So I'm surprised to see you praise one portability aspect of the rMBP but overlook one glaring issue. I do agree with you that notebook gaming is myth especially since, while gaming, any notebook is only going to be able to squeeze out a few hours on a single charge. I don't think that's necessarily the point of gaming notebooks but rather they provide a package smaller than a desktop that can be easily hauled and brought to a location instead of packing a huge desktop with a large monitor, keyboard, mouse, sound system, etc. After owning a gaming notebook, I definitely would never buy one again as it was way too massive and it took me all of 15 minutes to realize I was never going to actually game using the notebook while on the go.

Still, I don't think the rMBP is all that much more portable than the MBP (~1.2 lbs lost with the 15" rMBP and 1 lbs lost with the 13" rMBP model) and seeing how external storage/network storage is such a pain to haul, I think the MBP will always have some leg-up over the drastically overpriced rMBP lines (especially considering the sale prices that many stores are putting the 13" and 15" MBP at).

 

Still torn between retina MBP 15 or Razer blade 14. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

If you're gaming, both will likely underperform and overheat. Why not consider a Sager as you mentioned in your original post?

 

Depends what you need it for. IMO the Razer Blade will serve more purposes as the 765 will be able to play almost all games on high in 1080p.

 

I know this is an old post, but I thought I should respond.

Macs are great. Mac Pros and iMacs are amazing audio workhorses. Even the Mac Mini is fantastic for 2-track editting and playback.

On the other hand, MBPs are horrid at audio. I've had several with isolation issues, mobos that die mid mix, overheating to the point of a 1st degree burn, and endless beachball action in ProTools. I've used six different models, starting with the old plastic black MBP to the 2011 models, and each one has had some kind of issue rendering it unusable.

I stand by my statement to NEVER use a MBP for pro-level, or even pro-sumer mixing/editing/content creation. If you want something semi-portable, go for the iMac.

By the way, Apple's claim to fame has always been the Arts, but I think they're way better focused on graphical design and video content creation now.

 

What!? Never use a MBP for pro-level work? Hahahahaha... my MBP is a beast (not in comparison to my main machine) and handles the entire adobe creative cloud with ease, and logic pro

I have little to no idea what you are talking about my friend

 

I've lost over 100hrs of work due to MBP hardware and software failures, using ProTools, QLab, and Final Cut, resulting in at least 3 returns or replacements. When that happens to you, I'm sure it would change your mind.

For me, all issues ended up being the poor thermal design. Maybe I'm working with denser mixes than you?

 

This isn't surprising, considering Apple's history of poor thermal design...

 

The retina has better cooling design, but it' still not enough to prevent throttling under heavy GPU and CPU (simultaneous).

Just ask KCETech1 how many macbooks she went through. Granted, her workload is way more intensive than what 99% of people do.

 

Oh, I've seen her mention burning out a good handful of MBPs in previous threads (the details aren't pretty), but I'm also alluding to the Power Mac G4 Cube (lacked any fans, was just about completely sealed in plastic), the Apple III (basically, it was a completely-sealed metal box with no thermal control whatsoever), and pretty much most (if not all) the MBPs I've ever read about whenever users did anything to push the thermal envelops even by a little bit (mainly, gaming).

I do admire Apple's official advise for fixing the III whenever parts failed from heat: pick the computer up a few inches, then drop it.

 

Just thought I should mention that on the other hand, my research supervisor runs simulations on his macbook (retina 15") which maxes out his CPU and nothing has burned out for him. I have no idea if he's hitting throttle or not, but I'd know if he had to replace his mac and it hasn't happened.

I'm willing to bet that with haswell, the next gen of retinas won't see any throttling.

 

I have no idea what is being mentioned. My MBP is "always-on" system, and nothing has burned out on me. As I mentioned, I run everything basically on this thing and never had an issue once. I even play Guild Wars 2 (cross platform compatible) on this machine... no incidents.

You may have been issued a bad build

 

My friend has a 2009 MBP, and used to play the original Guild Wars on it. He once got a visible burn below the palm of his hand because it was so hot. We measured it's heat output with a laser thermometer while it was processing a video in Adobe and had Guild Wars open, running both the CPU and GPU to 100% for 20 mins, and the external area around the touchpad would reach 82 degrees celcius. He had to buy a cooling stand for it, and still maintains that it's the best laptop ever.

I know I wouldn't settle for that from a laptop...

I should really stop coming into the OSX forums here, since I'm such a negative nancy, but my rule is that if you're going to be using it for anything intensive, never get a MBP, go for an iMac. I love MBAs and MBPs as 'home' machines, but anything beyond that is ridiculous.

I would, however, buy a rMBP in a second if they brought back the 17", had a full-tilt CPU, and didn't thermally throttle or overheat.

 

I think you're forgetting that Macs (both portable and desktops) are made of aluminum. Aluminum is a great conductor of heat but does nothing when it comes to actually blocking it out. I've done heavy work on a Dell XPS system that was made of aluminum and it would get just as hot as any MacBook I have ever owned. My current work notebook, a Dell Latitude workstation (I forget the model, Dell has 39485798374985398475 of them released every year), get uncomfortably hot even when I'm just surfing the internet. Again, it is made of aluminum just like all modern MacBooks. I have no doubt that aluminum notebooks can run cool-ish but, when they come under a heavy load, they are all going to get really hot. We're not talking about most other notebooks that are made of plastics which act as good insulators against heat. Additionally, every aluminum notebook I have used (which get just as hot as my 15" MBP under heavy load) are heavier and thicker than my 15" MBP. So I don't think Apple is doing a bad job when compared to everyone else. I have a friend with a 15.4" Dell XPS (their current one) which has the same essential specs as mine. A similar processor (theirs is 0.1GHz slower), they have 12GB of RAM and I have 16GB (DDR3 on both systems), we both have a 1TB SSHD, and they have the Nvidia 640M with 1GB of GDDR3 RAM while I have the 650M with 512GB of GDDR5 RAM. Their notebook is aluminum but has that matte rubber-type surface on a few places. When both machines are placed under the same load, they both have similar thermal conditions. Their notebook's main exhaust is about 5 degrees (C) cooler than mine but the palm rests are the same temperature even with that thin coat of plastic. The aluminum just acts like a big heat conductor.

 

I think I was unclear when I said portable, when I said that I meant portable around the house, I live in a Large Home (Not Bragging here i just have a home with 7 bathrooms to give you an idea. And having the portability to move around the house or outside of the home has been great with my Macbook Retina. In short yes I use my Macbook Retina as a $2,000 Netbook, but I enjoy watching Media on it and having the low weight when let's saying lying in a couch and having the system atop my stomach or something like that.I don't like using Tablet devices and much prefer to always have a keyboard, Again sorry for the late post* But having such a portable device within the home can be useful for instance streaming video to one of the many LEDs within the home

 

That's kind of funny, because I work with Latitude 6400s and 6700s constantly, including Webcasting, as WatchOut controllers, or rendering after-shot compilations for hours and hours on end, and I've never gotten a physical burn from one of them, nor have I ever had one fail from overheating, out of our fleet of 20. (I think it's still 14:6 6400 to 6700, but I might be wrong.) The closest thing to mission critical failure I've seen from these things was an LCD having it's color slip too quickly, and a single HDD failure.

The only other aluminum notebook I've heard of getting that hot is the 1st gen HP Envys, and I wouldn't touch those either.

 

It's not funny when a Dell workstation I use gets uncomfortably hot just from crunching Matlab code while having Outlook 2007 open (on a secondary monitor) with Excel and Word in the background. I have never been physically burned (nor did I say that) but the units I have all used (and they all run Windows XP) end up getting hotter than my current MBP. They do get hot enough for me to take them off my lap (just in using Word and Outlook) and they get hot enough for me to switch to a wired keyboard and mouse set I am supplied with instead of the built-in keyboard and trackpad.

I do see what you are saying but, at the same time, I don't think the extra portability of a rMBP model really translates well in a home environment where people are going to use them on a hard surface 99% of the time anyway. That and I highly doubt anyone is going to notice a 1lb decrease in weight when they pick up a notebook and move it from one room to another. Arguments can be made for moving a computer across a college campus but not 13ft from the living room to a bedroom. That's where I am coming at. I do see what you are saying and how you would have access to network storage at your house but, in the real world, I think many people would sacrifice a little weight in order to gain gobs of storage. Most are probably happy with the 128-256GB they get with a baseline rMBP. I know I could never be after having a 120GB SSD in my 13" MBP and then a 240GB SSD in my MBA. I need at least 750GB of storage for all my stuff and I could never get that with a rMBP without carrying around external hard drives all the time (thus taking away from the whole appeal of having a rMBP).

 

Not even moving across a college campus makes a 1lb difference noticeable, really. i mean, if you're carrying it in a sidebag, you *might* be able to, but that's not really good for your back and it should really be in a backpack.

Anyway, if a Precision is burning your lap with only MATLAB (unless it's stupidly CPU-intensive) and Outlooks, I'd call up Dell to get that fixed, or repaste the CPU and GPU.

 

But then the HDMI comes into play and the resell value of the PC itself. Let's say when I bought this computer 3 months ago I went with a high end macbook pro Classic (which was roughly the same price at the time actually with the GT 650m) Today I would take a HUGE hit on that purchase. My brothers girlfriend likes my macbook pro Retina so much she's will to pay 2 grand for it, which is like a few hundred hit. I would not nearly get 2 grand for a macbook pro Classic. And I realize you might say that Mini Display Port can be treated as the same as HDMI, however you have to carry this cable with you everywhere you go, friends house, work, anywhere, it's annoying as I've often forgotten mine (I owned a macbook pro Classic with the GT 330m) And ONTOP of that I use a wireless HDMI adapter that does NOT work with a convertor ontop of a Display Port. I have no use for an optical drive today so it's worthless to carry one, so put in a HDD in there instead of the drive. Well Apple is kinda retarded in that it's only 1.5 sata in there so it's pretty god awful speeds, did that too. Overall after owning both I'm quite satisfied with my Macbook Retina, and am happy overall for making the transition. Did I mention the Retina has better speakers and doesn't overheat nearly as bad as the pro either? My retina doesn't hit temps anywhere close to my Classic.

 

That all works for you and that is great. However, for me, I know I could easily land $2k for my current 15" MBP due to the upgrades I have added. I couldn't for the baseline configuration (I could get $1500 but those go for $1700 in the stores around here so it would only be a $200 loss anyway) but I could still get a pretty penny. I have been carrying a display cable in some shape for over 10 years now. First I carried a composite RCA video cable (along with a 3.5mm to RCA stereo audio cable) for one notebook, I carried the same cables along with an S-video to composite video adapter, I then started carrying just a VGA cable once those became more commonly installed in HDTVs, and now I've been carrying either a mini displayport to HDMI or mini displayport to VGA cable. My monitor at home has VGA or DVI input only so I would have to use an adapter with a rMBP anyway and I have an Apple TV in every room and I have been using those as a display mirror for a while (and will use them as secondary wireless monitors once 10.9 comes out). To me, having the ability to upgrade a unit with aftermarket parts, at a reasonable price, was worth more than prematurely jumping into the retina desktop computing realm. I will likely get a rMBP a few years down the line but I see no need to buy one now especially since my current MBP is able to outperform the baseline 15" rMBP with everyday computing. I could match the rMBP when it came to real stress testing my upgrading to an SSD if I wanted to (I don't really need to with an SSHD). I think having those options later down the line are better than having to spend an arm and a leg upfront for those upgrades. I think the rMBP is a good system but it's a little ahead of it's time right now (lagging while scrolling through non-retina websites/ones that aren't scaled properly is unforgivable).

Well, I can't call up Dell or do anything like that as these notebooks are part of a government network. They are issued to each individual person and any tech support has to be handled by our in-house tech or sent off to Dell if they can't solve anything. I'm not the only one either. My notebook does this, the person I share my office with has made similar complaints, and even the principal investigator can't use his notebook on his lap after 10-15 minutes of use (all three with the same exact hardware running the same software). So I'm not the only one experiencing heat issues. There's even a sticker on each notebook, placed there by our tech department, instructing people not to use the notebooks on their laps.

 

if you feel like there is heavy front load depreciation, buy used

 

The mini Displayport to HDMI adapter, which I bought for less than $10, is a couple inches long, and is "pemanently" attached to the HDMI cable I use when I travel. Hardly inconvenient.

Used, refurbished, or on clearance. Refurbed baseline rMBPs from 2012 (2.3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD) are selling for $1599 from Apple and have the same warranty as new. When Haswell spreads to the rest of the MacBook line, you can bet Apple will be clearing out stock of Ivy Bridge units. That's where places such as MicroCenter or B&H sweep in, buy that inventory, and put it up for sale at a significant discount. MicroCenter did this when Ivy Bridge debuted, and I got the machine in my sig (which had a 750 GB HDD and 4 GB RAM) for $1599 when just a few weeks prior I would have had to pay $2649.

 

I don't know I've forgotten my Mini Display Port enough times for me to consider it inconvenient because literally nobody else uses one except me that I know of. And like i said before I use a wireless HDMI port and that won't convert over to a display port and work properly. Plus my company gives me a stipend to help cover the costs so it's not really a big issue to me of the cost of the system.

 

As a current owner of the 14" Razer Blade, it will offer a better gaming experience than the 15" rMBP but the screen comes no where near the quality of the retina screen. So deciding on whether or not to purchase it will depend on your tolerance of gaming on a sub par screen (only weak link I feel that hurts the cost of ownership). Some people in the Razer Blade forum are happy with the screen's performance but after owning a couple Sager's/Clevo's, the 17" Razer Blade R2 and a 2012 rMBP, the 14" RB is a hard sell, I just hope the next revision comes with a better screen. Only then will I say it is a step up from owning the 15" rMBP. I priced a fully spec'ed rMBP and it'll hit your wallet for $3300 (2.6GHHz cpu, 16GB sdram and 1TB SSD).