Not that impressed with screen on MB Air. normal?

Hi all, just received my macbook air back from repair.

I let it come from the states and unfortunatly it had a screen problem. So they had to replace the screen here in Holland. Major props for Apple for their worldwide garantee. (Sony would say go back to US for garantee).

Anyway, now I finally get to play with it and i'm lovin it sofar. Except: I am not impressed with the screen quality.

Ok it is still fine to work with. The blacks are not that deep. The letters not 100% crisp. My previous Sony TZ was better. It delivered deeper blacks, higher contrast. Also my glossy HP monitor W2208 is better.

A good example would be the letters here on the left of the screen: the topics underneath Latest laptop discussion. They are quite small and loose some of their readability. Most of the letters seem a bit "griddy" .

Also viewing angels are not that generous.

Now I am trying to work out, is this normal? Or maybe they replaced it with a bad screen.

Or maybe I am being a bit too critical. Would like to hear your experiences.

Thanks in advance.
Phil

Ps. I've played with calibration a couple of times.

 

The griddyness of fonts can probably be solved by going to System Prefs>Appearance and selecting a different option for Font Smoothing Style (I use Strong).
Viewing angles are note that great, since it is a TN Film panel after all. Then again, it should be similar to other notebooks.
You could try finding out the brand of display they have installed for you in System Pref>Graphics/Display. Perhaps they did replace yours with a poor quality panel. Otherwise, it's probably because you're being too critical. Ask a friend for an opinion.

 

Thanks for the feedback Budding. Well the good news is: I have now connected the Air for the first time to my HP monitor, and the same griddyness shows up.

So it does not seem to be related to the LCD screen.

But playing with Font Smoothing did not solve my complaint completly. Still griddy letters on my external display. The Air display seems to be a bit better now.

PS. is there a way to select the external display as only display and switch the air display off?

 

No it can't. Welcome to the world of Apple's poor anti-aliasing technology!

The problem began with OS X. Until then, Apple had the sharpest text rendering of any computer on the market. But OS X brought a new font display technology that used a really bad dithering method.

That's why Windows fonts look so much better. I think it's a friggin embarrasment that Apple, with such a rich graphic arts background, would saddle its 50 million-plus design-infatuated users such a poor display technology.

The funny thing is, I have done a lot of research in this area, and you and I are among the few complaining about this, explaining why Apple has continued this poor practice. Another bizarre aspect of this design approach is the fact that whenever you get a document from a Mac person, it's invariably in the 125% view, because no one can read a Mac document at 100%.

That's a really poor decision on your part, Steve Jobs! I can't believe you can't see that on your Sony TZ, I do! Parenthetically, I must blame Steve because I think that Apple's 5,000-plus engineers obviously know about this.

BTW, time to get out of the closet. I'm the founder of MacWEEK, and I've been around a long time, so I know of which I speak. So don't flame me.

Michael Tchong
Trend Analyst
http://www.ubercool.com

 

Hmm...I do agree that Vista's font rendering engine is pretty good, but I personally think that XPs ClearType is awful when compared to OS X's rendering. Could just be me, though. I like my fonts bold and black, which is why I have font smoothing set on strong.

To use the external display only, you will have to plug the display in, shut the lid of the MBA until it goes to sleep, wake up the MBA with the lid still shut by using an external peripheral such as a USB keyboard, and then [optional] open the lid after you see OS X on the external display.

 

Yeah XP's Cleartype looks awful, I agree. That's why I always turn it off.

Funny though my 3 year old Asus XP laptop with VGA delivers a better picture than my brandnew Air with DVI.

Thanks for the tip on external display will try that now.

 

The TZ has one of the best notebook screens that I have ever seen, and just about any notebook display that I have seen pales to the TZ.
Very, very razor-sharp vivid display on the TZ, no question.
No, I don't own either the Air or the TZ, but I have considered both:
The Air has a real lack of features.
The TZ is slow, and has a tiny keyboard.

Andrew

 

I agree the sony vaio TZ has easily the best led screen I've ever seen and owned!

 

Well guys you're right that the TZ has an excellent screen, but that does not address the real problem. The real problem is Apple's anti-aliasing technology.

Consider this setup:
Macbook Air, DVI out on a 22inch HP W2207 monitor.
Asus G6 Win XP, VGA out on the same monitor.

The Asus displays a much clearer letter. Much more readable. Not griddy at all.

 

I assume that if you put VISTA or XP on the Macbook Air, the anti-aliasing problem is gone. The problem is the text in OS X, not the Apple hardware, correct?

Andrew

 

Yes that's what I mean.

XP on the mac would solve the problem I expect. Don't know about Vista though.

 

Could you perhaps take a screenshot of this griddiness? Because I can read stuff just fine off my 20" LG and 19" HP.

 

Well I can read it fine too, it's not that bad. But the XP laptop delivers a better picture with sharper letters.

I'll see if I can show it on a picture.

 

VISTA renders anti-aliased fonts just as well as XP.

Andrew

 

I am trying to capture it on a picture. It's hard. This gives an impression of the difference:



On top Apple, beneath XP. The letters 'PhilFlow' show best the difference in readability. Both shots are Firefox in default settings.

 

That's not really the issue as i understand it, the issue is can I switch off all antialiasing in Vista.

I am very happy with the way XP displays letters, but only when I switch cleartype off.

 

I found this article that explains some stuff:

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/06/12.html

Here's an image that resembles very much what I see happening (OS X on top, XP beneath):


http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000884.html

 

Now I understand.
I am the exact opposite.
I love cleartype or antialiasing, but only on a good display.
That is why I am looking at the Air and the TZ. I consider them two of the best screens currently available on a smaller notebook.

However, I do understand that there are Mac users and others that think that dotty letters are easier to look at (antialiasing off) and some people like the text in Safari vs Firefox. I prefer Firefox, and can't get used to Safari.

I respect both opinions, since badly antialiased text looks horrible as well.

Back on topic...
I again think that the Air displays I have seen are very nice. The TZ's are nicer, even sharper, I just can't type easily on a TZ. That has been what has kept me from getting a TZ to this point. I hoped that the new Thinkpad X300 would combine the two, and give us a great keyboard (which it did) and also a great screen (which it apparently did not).

I continue to look for something 13.3" or smaller, very lightweight with a great keyboard and a great screen on the same notebook.

As for the rendering issue, we agree that it is purely an OS X issue.

Andrew

 

One thing is for sure, either VISTA has nicer rendering or I need an appointment with the eye doctor!

Andrew

 

So if I understand correctly my problem will be solved when I install XP.

I quite like XP so I might just do that.

 

afaik, there's no way that you can solve the problem. I guess you just have to deal with it.

Oh wait, so you're telling me you'll be using XP full time on your mba? then why'd you decide to get a mba?

 

For the looks!

 

Bytheway, I just found out that turning off textsmoothin for fonts smaller than 12 makes it a lot less blurry.
Now if I could only turn it off for all fonts...

Does anyone know workarounds or software for this?
Or maybe a different browser?

 

I use Firefox 3, and the fonts in that looks quite significantly different from Safari. You might want to try it out.

 

Update: I have installed XP now. It's flying. The display looks like it has doubled in resolution and readability. Much more beautiful.

Unbelievable that Apple does not let one switch of antialiasing.

However, there does seem to be a workaround:
Safari : Antialiasing-Smooth Font
Set High Threshold
defaults write com.apple.Safari AppleAntiAliasingThreshold -int 8
defaults write com.apple.Safari AppleSmoothFontsSizeThreshold -int 8
http://www.usingmac.com/2007/12/6/leopard-tweaking-another-terminal-commands
When I type this stuff at Terminal I get: 'unknown'.

Does anyone know why this does not work for me?

 

If anyone knows of a workaround or fix for this text rendering "problem", please let us know. Thanks.

 

Phil since you asked to continue this here, I didn't think your screenshot was all that accurate. Or rather, necessarily representative of what others see.

Here is my screen shot of your screenshot and its pretty clear that my text is not nearly as bad.
1st is in Firefox 3:



2nd is in Safari 4:



I think both are superior to the examples you provided.

Honestly as someone who uses both os's pretty evenly and constantly this is as big of an issue as the mouse acceleration thing. I would have noticed neither had I not read about them; and I still prefer the way my mouse moves in OS X compared to windows.

I think its more of a preference than it is an issue

 

Phil was making the accurate observation that the Sony screens are sharper, less 'griddy' and generally superior. It has nothing to do with the OS. Apple screens are inferior. I have to use them because I have no other option.

 

It doesn't work for me either. I don't know why either.

 

Man,whats you problem? Looks like you have pathological hate of apple!

Did you read whole thread?No,you just seen that someone is complaining about apple and decided "Aha,another chance to troll"!

FAIL!

 

Vogelbung, my comment was not even a direct response to this thread. The font 'issue' came up in an entirely different thread and he politely asked that further comments be made in this thread. So you not only misunderstand the basis of my reply, but as xirurg pointed out, it turns out you don't seem to understand the basis of this thread, but thanks for trying to explain things to me....

 

There was a whole lot of to-and-froing regarding the quality of the antialiasing and other OS X-based issues mentioned regarding his opinion of the difference between his previous Sony and Apple screen. I figured I'd cut to the chase.

Differences between the Apple small-text AA and Windows aside, the Air screen definitely has more cross-hatched graining, fuzziness and general lack of clarity than the comparable-model Sony screens, as well as the flagship ultraportables that he was referring to. This is, IMO, a bigger factor in small-text legibility than the difference in the text rendering - at least, at what you might call 'reasonably readable' small text.

The problem is that through Apple Goggles, it's the best that Apple has to offer in that general size range - so many people, and by people I mean of course the Kool-Aid drinkers, make the mistake of thinking that it is the best that anyone has to offer - and I feel that the resulting long-winded argument has resulted from that. I certainly appreciate it over the somewhat godawful screen that is the Macbook's - and if it wasn't for the more serious shortcomings of the Air I'd certainly be using it over the Macbook, but I'm not under any illusions as to it's wider-market quality. It's certainly very nice and bright and the coating strikes the right balance of a touch of colour-enhancing glossiness while still being generally usable under most light conditions - and the default colour balance is to my mind better than many Sony's bluish tints - but the actual image quality doesn't impress in the wider, non-only-Apple context.

There was some talk also made about it being OS-dependent: It is irrelevant of the OS to the extent of the above.

Pathological Apple hate? Maybe - from the viewpoint of the cult mentality exhibited by many Apple owners.

See above.

 

Uhh I did, and it really doesn't effect a single word I said. And it still doesn't relate in the slightest to why I resurrected this thread in the first place. What Phil and some others brought up in another thread had only to do with the way that the two OS's deal with AA. Period. Thank you, move along.

 

the problem is,he can't! he can't sleep w/o posting something (*$&#@ about apple...

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i placed my m1330 near the macbook air at best buy. the macbook air screen was horrible. the only thing it did have was good contrast. but that was ruined by horrible...and i mean horrible....vertical viewing angles. the 'sweet spot' was as big as the tip of a needle. and the edges and letter did not seem that sharp.

 

To comment on all the other discussion: I think the MBA (9c9f) and 13" MBP (9bcd) displays are gorgeous, and at least as good as Sony Z (1366*768). It's Apple fonts rendering that turns me off. And that's the reason I started this thread.

Actually I don't think it was an accurate way to do it: using screenshots of screenshots, with jpg compression going on and size reductions.

I will make one here, captured in the same frame, .bmp w/o compression. Here it is (clickable thumbnail):

 

Seriously? Wow... that is saying a lot.

Same here. But if I can find a fix or workaround for this, I think I'm buyin' myself a MBP!

 

Well to specify: viewing angles on the Sony were better. Contrast on the Macs was better. Brightness and blacklevels were comparable.

Well in the thread at Macrumors they suggested Tinkertool, which allows to turn of AA. But then you get a font that looks like Windows with Cleartype turned off. Not that good.

I don't think there will be any real fix. You can try changing the AA setting to strong but that's about it.

 

That sounds great!

eeek. Not good at all. Windows with ClearType turned off looks awful (to me).

Very frustrating. There has GOT to be a solution to this....

 

Have you tried changing the AA setting to 'strong'? It helps a little bit.

PS. keep in mind that I only had Sony with 1366*768. I never have seen the 1600*900, which may be better.

 

or may ruin your eyes

tho I love high res

 

Text on it looks something like this.

 

I would not really be bothered since my use is 90% Firefox. With addon No squint it allows excellent zooming.

 

Thanks for taking the new pics (saves me from doing it) and I think they're much more representative than the old ones.

 

Yeah, I use NoSquint too. It's great for the web -- but doesn't help anything else, of course.

My personal comfort zone is around 110 or 113 ppi.

 

Safari 4 zooming is great... just gotta say....