PC User about to take the plunge and purchase the 2.66 15" Macbook Pro...convince me.

Im a long PC user but am leaning to Mac because im going into graphic and webdesign. I also want to game a bit.

Im looking at the 2.66 15" model with the 512mb graphic card vs the 2.44 processor.

Is the 2.66 worth the extra money, I dont really mind spending the extra few hundred when im already in this price range (vs buying a PC)

Give me some input please. Why should I not just go get a good gaming style PC for around half the price?

 

If you already have your sights on the Mac and can afford it, there's no reason why you shouldn't buy it.

You're getting a great, solid computer. And we're not talking about price. If you can afford it, price is no issue.

The 2.66 may give you an extra boost, depending on how you use it. I found that the 2.53 CPU in the first Unibodies was tons faster than the 2.4 in the older gen Macbook Pros. I work with audio (sequencing and recording/mixing).

So again, if you don't really care about the money you're spending, go for it.

If you look at every $100 bill as it's your last one, get a gaming PC.

 

the MBP is a solid computer, it is solidly built, uses very high quality parts (not just the case, everything from the board, fans, right down to the last screw and ports, everything just feels quality).

the magsafe is one thing you have hard time leaving for another computer brand.

the keyboard is one of the best, i prefer macbook or macbook pro keyboard over the thinkpads.

they have very durable design, everything is state-of-the-art, which is why sometime they do not done enough Quality Control and the amount of defect is unaceptable...

but fear not, apple support policy is wonderful, they will want to resolve your problem, and actually gives a dam about you, it is business class support. and i do suggest you get applecare if you want to keep your notebook for more than 1 year.

but for me, what makes Apple computer price palateble, is the OS.
Mac OS X is such a nice system, it boots real quick, launch app so quick, less pronce to crash, no maintenance (or very very little, if you care to, then again, you can download app like appzapper (pay) or Onyx (free) to automate them), no updating driver (this is done automatically via software update, sleep and wake reliably and really quick.

mac os x is very efficient, it runs faster on the same hardware than on windows, the RAM usage is very low, the battery life is much better, even sleep doesnt consumes as much power as on windows, by far.

MBP Screen is also very nice. especially the 17" version.

yeah, i say go for the high-end one.

it certainly helps when you want to game.

 

I don't get it. Why do you need someone to convince you to buy a macbook pro?????

 

Are going to buy in US?if yes,then you can get 2.6 mbp for >2200 from ebay...and even less if you use cashback option.

 

I'll compare the MBP to the Dell precision M4400 (a high quality business laptop):

MBP pros:
OS X
Lighter
More ergonomic, feels nice, all metal.

M4400 pros:
Better GPU
Quad core
WUXGA RGBLED screen (MBP is stuck at WXGA+)
Offers accident protection warranty

If ruggedness is important to you, you should have a look at the HP 8530W laptop. JerryJ had very good things to say about the build quality (he wacked it really hard against his desk, and it did not even leave a mark. HP claims that even if you rub a wool pad against the lid, it wont scratch.
There are also numerous demonstrations posted on youtube.

 

It really comes down to what you plan to use your laptop for. There are somethings that PC does better than Mac and vice versa. The obvious one is gaming, if your a serious gamer then go pc.
But if you want a low maintenance, high build quality laptop with a great os, that you can use to get your work done, then Mac is a great option.
a

ps I suggest making a list of the thing you need to do on the laptop, and then mark which ones are better suited to the mac or PC, this should give you your answer.

 

If you need the mac get the mac, if you don't NEED the mac don't get the mac.
If you're going into the graphic design industry... get a mac.....


also, i dunno if you're into blackbeard or anything, but if you are, he's not as easy to find with a mac...

 

add numerous driver and bios problems to m4400,relatively bad BQ and bad battery life to m4400.But so far,I don't have any problems with my 8530,so I say that it is a worthy alternative to mbp.

 

Xirurg, could you elaborate on your problems with the m4400 ? AFAIK, its relatively well built (but not as well as the 8530w). Dell should have fixed the driver and bios kinks by now.

And yes, battery life is a ++ for the MBP

 

Umm.... why is it necessary to get a Mac if you want to get into graphic and web design?

The last time I checked, Adobe released CS4 for both Windows AND Mac and both versions are essentially identical bar some interface changes.

But if you think using a Mac would somehow make you a better graphic designer, by all means, get a Mac.

 

Why?

To answer the OP's question - I'll echo what I've written in similar threads - checkout the mouse action first. The new OS enforces something called 'mouse acceleration', which if you're used to using a PC and doing detailed graphical work, you might find difficult to use, and you can't switch it off.

One thing I will say in favour of the Mac though, the OS (apart from the above issue) is rock solid, and it doesn't come shipped with the sort of crap that you'll get with a PC.

I swapped the MBP for an HP DV5. Hardware-wise it's all pretty similar, though a bit slower. But at a third of the price that doesn't bother me. What is increasingly becoming an issue though is the awful HP software on it, which either doesn't work, or conflicts with existing Vista functionality. Horrible.

The quality of Leopard in contrast was gorgeous.

However using the Mac with a few applications open - Dreamweaver, Photoshop, FTP, a couple of browser windows...was horrible compared to the PC.

Best to check one out if you have the option, as even though most of the applications you use will be the same, the way you switch between them and the way the mouse works on a Mac are a completely different kettle of fish.

 

Sure man,sorry that I forgot to do that when you asked me

1)Bad driver and BIOS support-numerous problems
2)sound issue
3)regular screen has horrible light "leakage",RGBLED was ok though
4)GPU and CPU used to get very hot when doing intensive things
5)Keyboard unevenness!!!
6)bad phone support
and some small annoying things,but I find them to personal to list

*disclaimer*:My experience is based on 2 units-one refurbished(which had mobo replace after my request...but no luck,still had problems) and new one,which still had most of problems.Sure,I did my work on it till I get 8530,but it was very annoying...

btw,Vista also has built in acceleration which you can only turn off bu editing register files.

Also,IMO,CS4 works way better on mac os...

 

I've had lots of aps open at once in OSX without a problem while my PC would drag. I guess everyone has different experiences though. I agree that the OP should check one out first. If you need convincing though, you aren't ready to make the switch yet.

I'f you're "about to take the plunge" shouldn't you already be convinced?

 

agreed!

but i suppose if it helps the OP in some ways...

 

Sorry about the iggnorant question about convincing me. The reason I want a MAC is im tired of virus' or spyware, im tired of having to degrag, do registry cleaners, and once a year or so do an entire re-format. I hate it when my 1 year old PC slows right down.

Well the only thing holding me back from the Mac, is gaming and hooking it up to my 50" Plasma TV.
Im not a big gamer, I might play 2 hours a week. Can I run PC games on a bridge of some sort? Also would the 2.66 with the 512mb graphic card play some of the latest games?

Now about my TV, I watch LOTS of HD movies/tv shows off my laptop conneced to my TV. I usually d/l lots of movies and watch them off my laptop, my current connection with my PC is VGA which looks way better then the DVI did, since the reason I got my TV is the strong vga PC port. Will I have any problems with a MAC? Can I watch my screen at 1080p? If gaming what resoultion would I be running generally (COD4 etc)?

ps: Whos blackbeard?

Thanks,
Matt

 

Yes, you can game on it. I also play COD4 in native 1440x900 or you can do 1280 x 800 but I have never tried it since I prefer to max out my resolution when playing games.

You can also install Boot Camp & run Windows from it to play games natively. BC allows you to boot into Windows with your MBP. Just make sure you install the BC drivers from the Leopard DVD after the Windows installation. You could also install new Nvidia drivers after that. I have tested playing games in Windows & the game I tested ran perfectly but I haven't tried out any FPS games though.

With the correct cable you can connect your MBP to your 50" TV in 1080p. I connected my MBP to a 42" HD Sony TV in 1080p via DVI to HDMI & an audio cable for sound.

 

I heard there was a program out there that you dont have to install windows just this program that allows you to run windows programs? IS the best to run a bridge (is boot camp a bridge?), let me get this right when you turn on your mac you have the choice to boot in either windows or mac? Will it slow down quite a bit in windows version or no?

Thanks

 

It's not a speed issue - the Mac handled them adequately, but I found switching between apps using a mouse a real issue. Plus there's 'holes' everywhere between the app toolboxes, so I kept accidentally clicking on the desktop which took me out of the app and back to the finder.

Plus I like to have a couple of browser windows open when developing. In Mac OS your only reference is the little light on below your browser icon on the dock - with Windows you have all instances of your browser listed on the bottom bar, so you can choose which browser window you want to look at.

For an operating system aimed at designers, I found the Mac OS surprisingly badly designed from a usability perspective.

Really? I haven't noticed any acceleration at all on my new laptop with Vista, so even if it is on then I wouldn't need to switch it off. I'm not sure about what you're saying about having to edit registry files either, as I've read on other forums that it can be switched off via the control panel.

I can honestly say the mouse action on my relatively cheap HP is a thousand times better than on my MBP, which was bordering on unusable.

 

You can use Crossover Mac http://www.codeweavers.com/ to run Windows software without a Windows install. It works well with certain games but for the best experience you should install Windows.
A Macintosh does not come preinstalled with Windows. You can use the Bootcamp utility in Mac OS X to partition the HDD and allow for Windows XP/Vista or 7. When you start up or reboot your Mac you can choose to boot up to Windows or Mac OS X by pressing the Option key.
You shouldn't have problems getting just about any software you want for Mac OS X. Just Google it.
Be careful about mentioning torrents when obtaining software, that's a no no on this forum. Please spare us that you can use torrents legally, most people here don't so the mods don't condone it.

 

Or you can go to http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/ for every single mac apps for anyones needs.

 

gamilychoice,yes,there is mouse acceleration in Vista-just search that in Google.AFAIK,there are 2 ways to disable it-
1)modding register(but it doesn't work in sp1)
2)some drivers shipped with your mouse allow to disable it

BTW,we resenlty discovered a way to remove it from mac os too

 

Can that not be user set in OS X ? Linux allows me to collapse all windows of the same app into one, or view the seperate instances on the bottom bar

 

He's not a troll. I remember him having problems with mouse acceleration on his macbook pro unibody. He's just trying to share his experience. I doubt this is illegal.

 

Selecting apps in OSX is so much better than Windows or Linux... its awesome and easy... think some people have no clue how to use it so say its bad... I never switch an app or window clicking on the dock.. maybe you shouldn't waste time doing it that way either... usually just clicking on the dock is for selecting the app if you need like to get the drop down menus, its not the best way to change to other windows/apps you want to use.

And mouse acceleration can be turned off, its nothing new. You can do it command line, or there are a few 3rd party apps that allow you to control it... some drivers for certain tablets and stuff change it for you too. But the guy who keeps in many threads complaining about this same issue over and over is just full of it. He either lies, has really wonky hands, or has some problem on his Mac where its not working right. Even when doing very precise things like art OSX mouse control is so much more awesome and precise.. its terribly easy, so i have no clue where he comes out with this stuff. Someone else called him a troll, because there are many ways to change it thats been discussed on this board many times, yet in tons of threads he continues to complain about it.

 

On Mac you're supposed to use expose to switch between windows under the same app. Either that, or Cmd+`.

 

I use expose and it's brother for that.

 

Thanks guys. So whats this mouse accleration all about? MAC is better I thought for that for doing graphics as I read in a earlier post in this thread.

Like I said Im just tired of all the problems with PCs slowing down, virus', defragging, cleaning registerys, spyware, reformating etc.

For price I can get $200 off the laptop for a student and $100 off the mac warrenty which I would go with.

Thanks

 

I didn't realise it was permanently switched on, if I'd known I would probably not have bought a laptop with Vista as this was an issue on the MBP. Fortunately it's fine, and it works completely differently to the Mac....it's a complete joy to use, and absolutely no different to my XP desktop.

I'd be interested to know how you did that. I was sad to see the MBP go back - if I could replicate the PC mouse ease of use on a Mac then I'd definitely consider getting another MBP.

So what is your solution that's so much easier than clicking a tab at the bottom of the screen, as you would with windows? Bearing in mind II would be using a mouse with the MBP?

No wonky hands here, and if there is a fix then I haven't found it, and I searched every forum and blog I could find, and downloaded every bug fix and third party cludge that I could find, as well as using 5 different mice.

Rather than calling me names, would you care to share your solution to turning off mouse acceleration? I'm pretty sure I tried everything but if you have a fix then I'm sure it would be helpful for people reading this thread.

I'm not 'trolling'. I wasted a lot of time buying, setting up, trying to fix, and then returning my MBP. I run a business and can do without the hassle. I just wish I'd known about the difference beforehand - if someone had warned me then I would have made sure I tried one out before putting in my order.

That's all I'm saying in these threads...try before you buy.

 

I find Expose much easier than clicking a tab at the bottom. clicking a tab at the bottom is decent if you have like less than 10 windows open. With many open, I find it much easier to see the whole window I want and choose it, instead of a little tab with partial text, or even no text when its gets so full they are all scrunched down... even grouping like programs in pop up click tabs is kinda slow. With Multitouch, its easy to just slide 4 fingers down and see all your Windows... and select the one you want... without Multitouch if you still wanna use just the mouse without a keyboard key to make it show up, best to set up a hot corner you can move the mouse to and it shows up. I'd rather just hit a key on the keyboard and see everything. Ever since going Multitouch I'm so spoiled at the ease of using Expose, I wish I could have an external USB Multitouch pad (with drivers) to use on all my machines.

I cant test any of the solutions people have listed including just disabling acceleration or the programs they've used that disables or modifies it, as I cant really reproduce the problem. Maybe its just I'm more use to it, but I find the default way OSX handles the mouse so much easier to use than they way Windows usually is, though with a high dollar mouse/tablet, I've gotten just as good performance out of Windows. There have been quite a few threads about it, I don't recall them all by heart.

Please excuse me if I said anything that you felt was calling names, sometimes my personality disorder makes me a little too concrete to understand feelings/reactions from said things, so sorry.

 

I read on another forum about a June update, should I hold out a few months to see what happens?

 

you need to ask yourself if you need a mac now. if the answer is yes, then get it now. if the answer is no, then I would wait for when Apple has the back to school deals and get it then.

 

It's always best to wait if you can.

 

What are the back to school deals? Are they in Canada as well? I know I can get a student price which takes $200 off the laptop.

Also do you think there going to make any major updates in June?

 

Back to school deals usually take place on the first week of august. That's approximately the time college starts. There are big discounts during these periods. Last year, students got ipod touches when they bought a mac.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=369569&highlight=So+i+turned+of+mouse+acceleration

See yhis thread.

 

No worries

I used the expose thing, but to me that still seems clunkier then simply having the apps and browser instances lined up at the bottom of the page, as you have to make two moves to get to your app as opposed to one in Windows.

That's not a big issue if you're not using many apps, or staying in each app for a long period...but when you need to switch from one to another every few seconds, as in web development, that extra movement to switch on expose adds up.

I'm not bashing the Mac OS as I prefer a lot of it's features to Vista, which I like less with every day that I use it. From a productivity point of view though I can work faster with multiple apps in Windows.

 

Thanks for the link

That thread came just after I'd sent mine back so I haven't tried that one. A friend has a Mac though so I might give it a try on his machine.

 

There are a few ways of effectively using expose in order to reduce time, for example using hot corners, or in my case, have it set to an additional mouse button. Although I tend to use Cmd+` a bit more often when it comes to switching between windows of the same app.

 

Yes, there seems to be a lot of different options available. They all still involve an extra step though, which if you're switching apps every couple of minutes (for example when tweaking a stylesheet in Dreamweaver, uploading it via an FTP app, then viewing the result in a browser), result in extra time taken to do the job.

I think the overall impression I came away with after owning the MBP was that design wise the machine and the OS looked very nice, but for usability and productivity Windows has the edge at this point in time.

Basically it all comes down to what people are using a laptop for. It's a tool, and you need to choose the best platform for the job and for me, at the moment, the Windows machines have the edge, so I wouldn't recommend a Mac at the moment as the best platform for designers - either software or hardware wise. If you're a musician though Logic, which is only available on a Mac, is definitely worth switching platforms for.

 

what about the four-finger swipe for expose? that alone makes os x a better tool for people that need to work fast (i.e. myself).

 

I agree, I use Expose all the time, and I really do think it helps me work faster.

 

I think "familychoice" is very used to how Windows works, so its faster for someone used to it. I switch to specific windows and apps much faster in OSX than I ever did in Windows. I don't understand how its an extra step. If you have 15 windows open, the scrunch up so much at the bottom on WIndows, half the time i click the wrong one, and click 2 or 3 before finding the right window. When having the grouped into a single entry on the taskbar, it still takes 2 clicks.. on on that one, and the next on the right Window. On my MBP, it takes moving my fingers and clicking the right window, which I always get right since I can see the whole window not just a little icon and like "MS Int ... 0" Even when i had to push an extra key on the keyboard, it was still easier. I could find the right app in Windows much faster by using Alt+tab then i could with clicking on the taskbar. At least if i choose the wrong one i can quick through a few in a second or two.

I do work with people and understand though that if they are very used to doing something in a certain way, it is easier for them to do it that way... that they might be able to use a different way that would be better for them, but unless they work at it and learn how to do it right, it wont ever be better for them.

 

I dont concider a Ipod Touch a 'big discount' is there discounts as well as bonuses (ie. Ipod touch)? My school starts tomorrow (for webdesign and graphic design) and I have a older PC which I can use but I would perfer to start fresh on a mac and learn on that. But if I will be saving a lot of money I can wait.

 

Me neither. It is a big discount only if they change ipod touch into real discount such as 20 or 30% off the original price

 

you can sell the iPod for 200$...

 

I was referring to working with the mouse, not the touchpad.

Familychoice started on a Mac 17 years ago and still occasionally uses Macs as well as Windows machines.

It's not an issue of familiarity, it's an issue of an additional step required to switch apps when I have multiple browser instances open. Even if I was full time on the Mac and a complete 'genius' (lol), I'd still have to go through more steps to find the browser I wanted than on a PC.

What don't you understand? You have to click, or swipe, or whatever to reveal Expose, then you click your application icon. That's two steps. In XP or Vista you click an icon at the bottom, that's one step.

Why would you have 15 windows open? That's ridiculous. For normal use you'd have maybe 5 or 6. Even when I'm developing I'll have a maximum of about 8, all of which fit quite happily along the bottom. Even if you did have that many open on a Windows machine you'd have the early PC version of Expose, which is to alt/tab through the list.

Exactly, two clicks.

When did you last use Windows? I haven't seen what you're describing since the mid 90's. XP and Vista provide full details of what the browser is open to or the application name.

And you think that's better than having everything listed along the bottom?

I don't need to 'learn how to do it right', and I'm not tied to one operating system or manufacturer - I use Macs and PC's. You've just confirmed my experience that it takes twice as long, sometimes longer ("i choose the wrong one i can quick through a few in a second or two"), to switch between apps on a Mac in certain situations.

I'm happy to acknowledge that Macs are better for certain tasks, but in my opinion, for graphic and website design Windows currently has the edge. So for any PC based designer thinking about switching platforms I would advise them to spend a few hours working on the machine they intend to buy first.

For what it's worth I can live with the extra hassle with app switching as the Mac OS and iLife are a lot less buggy than the crap you get from someone like HP. The deal breaker for me was the awful mouse action.

 

The student is entitled to student discount => he got his macbook pro for $1800. He sells the ipod touch for $200 or so. He ends up getting the macbook pro for ~$1600. If that's not a discount, then may be i'm wrong.

 

and 17 years ago Macs were total pieces of trash

steps.. is steps always? If it takes you 5 seconds to do one step.. or 2 seconds each for 2 steps.. which is faster?

if you have barely anything open, but still being one step, it doesn't happen any faster for me than more steps on OSX. May be different for you, which is why I said its based on the user, just because 1 has "more steps" sometimes, doesn't mean its slower.

ridiculous? guess i gotta stop doing that, sometimes have more than that going... Macs have CMD+Tab that switches apps and CMD+` that switches between windows in an app, but i still find Expose better, even if I have 20+ windows open.

I was talking about grouping similar tasks on Windows, that was using 2 clicks in Windows, not on OSX... which is easier on Windows when you have a bunch of windows open.

you just use high screen resolutoins or few apps, it still does this stuff when fiting in a bunch of things on the taskbar. Its better if you have it group windows so only 1 is on the bottom for each app, but then it makes it 2 clicks like i said before to switch apps.

yep, unless your running 2 or 3 things.. maybe 5, 6 or 7 depending on your resolution maybe more... but when I have that few of things open, taking an extra 25 seconds over a couple hours of switching windows isn't noticed.

I didn't mean just "right" as everyone works best different ways, the right only referred to people who didn't understand or know everything possible they could do, and get used to doing it with some practice. The "choose wrong one" quote of me was about Windows, not OSX... not being able to read scrunched up words and clicking the wrong one on the taskbar.

in your opinion, for graphic and website design, you currently can use Windows better for it... that doesn't mean there is an edge either way, just its whats good for you. But yes, thats good advice to try stuff out and get to know it and see how it works before buying, not everyone works best in the same way.

 

I'm getting real close to closing this thread.