Running Windows on a Mac: Boot Camp, Parallels Desktop & VMware Fusion

You can install win7from USB pen, not sure about win8.

Anyone knows how it works with itunes syncing on both win7 and mac lion on same computer? Do I have to make them identical on both OS?

 

Only if you install rEFIt

It might work if you put the libraries folder in the windows install. The other way wont work due to windows not being able to read on HFS+

 

I am not sure weather it's okay to discuss this here but I have a problem with W8 now

Now after booting, the screen goes black and nothing can bring it back to live... when I close the lid it goes in sleep mode, wenn I open it, it's back to live... but still a black scene That it worked at first makes me think of an driver issue... but is there something like a driver for the screen? Is it the HD3000?

That's how it looks like (video)

As always... thank you very much for your help

 

I think there is a problem with the windows 8 install, format and do it again

 

kk I'll do that THX

 

I'm an 'on again / off again' Parallels user. I first began using parallels and fusion when I had XP Pro (prior to the Vista and Win7 days). I have since mostly just stuck with running windows 7 inside of bootcamp after I added a 2nd internal HDD dedicated to that bootcamp partition.

Anyways, I've decided to try running windows within a parallels vm in OS X again for convenience. I'm using Lion, Parallels Desktop 6 and Windows 7 64 Ultimate.

My immediate question is this... How do I get the windows 7 taskbar to appear at the bottom of my OS X desktop when in Cohesion? I seem to remember being able to have my Windows XP taskbar autohide and display at the bottom of my OS X desktop. But that was back in the days of Leopard/Parallels 5 and Windows XP Pro.

I would like to be able to do that again with my windows 7 taskbar at the bottom of the desktop and have my OS X dock on the left of margin of the desktop. What I get now instead are my windows apps displayed in the OS X dock and/or at the top of the OS X menu bar.

I've still got a license for VMWare Fusion, I may try it just to see how that works with the taskbar.

ANy ideas or suggestions about the taskbar?

Thanks,

Ben

 

iTunes is kind of a pain with syncing. iOS devices can only sync with one PC at a time...err...I guess I should say one OS at a time! It would count those as two separate PCs, so you'd probably want to actually sync with your main OS.

The good thing though is even if you're not actually syncing, your other OS' copy of iTunes can still work with the iPod, like to play stuff that's on it through the computer, etc.

I do like how I used to be able to sync with multiple computers on my PalmOS devices though

 

awesome thanks for this!

 

What about Oracle's VirtualBox? It is free and they say it is as good as Parallels. I ask since parallels is pretty expensive ($60 or so bucks) and it would matter to some cash crunched users!

PS I already have an XP cd lying around (came with my sony to downgrade from Win 7 if I wanted to) so I would probably install XP on the other side. Can I upgrade to Win 7 from the XP in Parallels?

 

I cant get my MBP to output sound to the tv in W8... I guess I am missing some drivers... but WUpdate insisted in installing a W8 driver for the HD3000 or does even the sound over HDMI depend on the soundcard on the mainboard (not the HD3000)

THX as always

 

hi there i have a problem, 1 day i was workin on my macbook os x and the next day when i switched it on the only thing i get is a blank screen then it goes over to the screen were the apple is running and there it runs the hole time dont go any further if any1 can assist me by tellin me why and how to fix it please thank you

 

Using Bootcamp:

Could someone give me the battery life for Windows 7 running on the 13" Late-2011 model without the dGPU.

Also do the Late-2011 15-inch models still use the dGPU when running Windows 7...or has that been fixed.

 

Hi. bevor starting a new thread I will give it a shot here

I have a problem with Windows, my Bluetooth Keyboard makes trouble and because of that I searched for a Windows driver (newer than the one that came with Bootcamp) but wasn't able to (even find an "old" one)...

I tried google, even the search here (and landed in the year 2007 ) but had no success....

Thank you guys!

 

Definitely a nice post. Thanks for the information. Bootcamp can be helpful, but unless your running at least a dual core CPU and have at least 4 gigs of RAM, it's a little bit slow... It also cuts the battery life in half on Macbook users.

 

thanks it is really very nice tricks to install windows on your mac

but i only use wine-mac it is very useful software
without windows you run any windows software on your mac

Wine enables Linux, Mac, FreeBSD, and Solaris users to run Windows applications without a copy of Microsoft Windows. Wine is free software under constant development. Other platforms may benefit as well.

Installing Wine on Mac OS X

 

Wine can be very complicated and all command line usage.. compile yourself...

I make Wineskin to make actual Mac ports, which can still be complicated but MUCH easier than using standard Wine.

 

Why doesn't this FAQ cover a clean install of windows only? Not using bootcamp nor OSX.. I know many who buys a mac purely because the exterior is nicer than any pc and the touchpad and batterylife is usually much nicer..

I am running windows only without any OSX or Bootcamp on my old one so i know it works

 

Three reasons:

1) The touchpad is not nearly as good in Windows as it is in OS X, at least not without the use of a hacked driver, which can create its own set of headaches.

2) Battery life takes a big hit on Core iX MBPs because switchable graphics doesn't work in Windows.

3) There are lots of new and worthy competitors to the MBP (Samsung Series 7, HP Envy, etc) that have comparable to better specs for less money.

IMO, the only valid reason for wanting to run Windows full time on a Mac is if your desire for a 16:10 display trumps the pitfalls outlined in reasons 1 and 2.

 

I see

1. for me though the touchpad is not getting better than it is as it's not the newer version, so i never thought of that .. Is the sensitivity also less in windows? Because that is what i have noticed on any apple laptop is that it is exactly like the touch displays on the iphone/ipod/ipad etc.. and not like the ones on the PC's where you have to have some pressure for it to register which ruins the feel and ease of use of a touchpad.

2. same there, mine just has integrated graphics, so i didn't notice that Or atleast not a huge impact on batterylife. Btw, isn't there a corresponding PC laptop with same integrated and decicated graphics solution which driver you can use instead for those who have a dedicated gpu also?

3. Sure, the specs may be equal, but there always is for less price getting a PC, always have been.. I didn't mention that, i meant the exterior, which is not nearly as nice on any competitiors PC laptops.

 

I got a question: How stable is partitioning a 258gb SSD Drive dead even between both OSX LION and Windows 7 Pro and then using a second HDD to share amongst those two drives for media purposes???

Why do I have to do this??? because the Second Bay is only a 1.5 Sata and will not read a SSD oh and this is all Bootcamp not going to run a VM

I think 100+ gigs should be sufficient for the OS and whatever applications I may put on top, but is using a second HDD to share between the two OS realistic?

 

Should be no problems at all partitioning it, it's just like any other storage device pretty much.
You can have a second HDD too if you want, no problems.

Why won't your macbook read the SSD from the second bay? It should work without any problems.

Yes, absolutely. That's what i was doing before i went over to windows completely. And why i went over to windows is because i'm a huge quakelive fan and it crashes constantly in OSX no matter what browser and has bad performance, in windows it's fine.

 

In Windows, the trackpad "tracks" differently. It's not as smooth as it is in OS X. Also, even though I've only been using Lion for a couple weeks, I've become used to the gestures, which are non-functional on the Windows side. It spoils you pretty quickly.

Both NVIDIA and AMD have their own solutions that combine a GPU integrated into the CPU (for enhanced battery life) and separate, discreet one that's designed to only kick in when needed (eg playing a game).

As NVIDIA doesn't make CPUs, their setup, Optimus, pairs with Intel processors. The GPU on the CPU is the Intel HD3000 (or similar) and is connected to the notebook's display. The discreet NVIDIA chip channels its processing through the Intel GPU via the display driver. When it works, it's great, but that's not always the case. Sometimes you have to engage in driver trickery to get it functioning properly, and even then it doesn't always behave the way you want.

A few notebooks have switching between the graphics on an Intel CPU and AMD GPU. The HP Envy and some Pavilion models have a BIOS setting that allows for "fixed mode" switching where you control, via software, how you want the switchable graphics to work. You can have the AMD GPU working all the time when the notebook is plugged in, and it will automatically switch to the Intel one when on battery. You can tweak it to suit your specific needs. Several Sony Vaio machines, IMO, have the best type of dual-graphic solutions, and that is a physical switch on the notebook itself that allows you to choose between integrated and discreet. This puts you in pretty much complete control over how you want your system to behave. The major drawback is that AMD and Intel don't write their drivers to accommodate this. You need to rely on Sony, who very rarely provides updates, or an enterprising 3rd party who has the time to restructure the code.

AMD also pairs its own notebook CPUs with a dedicated AMD GPU. A few Asus and HP models go this route. It generally works OK, but there's a rather large problem of programs and games written using OpenGL not being able to take advantage of the discreet GPU - they always run on the much slower integrated processor. This is something that could, theoretically, be fixed using the same BIOS update as I mentioned above, but no such thing has been released.

I personally have never had good luck with notebooks that use automatic graphic switching, except for my MBP. The switching works seamlessly within Mac OS for the few games I do play. On the Windows side, I don't need to worry about it at all as the discreet GPU runs all the time. I don't care about the battery-life hit because I very rarely am in Windows while unplugged.

Aesthetics are entirely subjective. I personally like the way the Sony Vaio SA, HP Envy 15, and Samsung Series 7 look. Yes, they are not quite as sexy as a MacBook, but they're still very worthy alternatives. I was speaking more on the objective features of screen types/resolution and overall hardware specifications.

 

Because like I told you the sata connection in that bay is 1.5 and the drive must be able to downclock to the slower speed of 1.5 to function properly and a SSD won't do that, however a standard drive will.

 

What type of notebooks are you using? I don't like touchpads and replace them with a real mouse whenever possible, but I've got an Asus N80, G74, little Acer, and a Macbook Air right now, and all of them work identically with the touchpad-there's no real pressure used on it, I mean no more than on an iPod or something.

Well, that's just personal preference. I think Apple's PCs look fine, but I'd never pick them over anything else for looks. Don't even know (or care) whether I think I like how they look the best.

 

I'm not sure if i understand you here, any SSD works fine with any SATA1,2,3 connection. I'm running a SATA3 SSD on SATA1 in my old macbook.

How it works is that the SATA1 (or 1.5Gbit/s) is simply just a throttle, it will not make you unable to run it. It will simply be slower, but as SSD's main thing is low accesstimes you won't notice the drawback if you are not copying large files all the time. Load times on the other hand will be as quick as otherwise.

I don't care for what you like or not, when it comes to not using a touchpad as that is irrelevant for what i'm saying
But usually when you get a laptop/notebook you are usually making use of the touchpad if you use it as intended, ofcourse a mouse will always feel better. But if you've used the multi touch gestures on a macbook, then it can quickly spoil you and keep on using it as it's better than the competitors touchpads when it comes to function. Usually apples touchpads are smoother and just works better, and i've been using almost 20-30 different laptops over the years and only tryed out a couple of macbooks and they all feel different when you use them.

It's not just the looks, it's the functions aswell, for example, the lids are lock-free and the magsafe connector is really nice, also slot-in drives are much easier to use among other things, all the small things makes a big difference for the experience when you use it. Also having a laptop that looks good is never bad, as you're probably gonna use it everyday you might aswell get something good too look at while you're at it, i see it as life quality or whatever you can call it.. Things that makes you happier to look at, instead of looking at things that look boring or not esthetically good, the majority likes to look at things that looks good and makes them feel better, no matter if it's cars, women, your home or whatever it may be If you get my point here.

Also the resale value on a macbook is much higher than any corresponding pc, so the extra money is most likely something you will get back in the same amount as if you where to sell the pc second hand later on as you would with the macbook.

 

i don't know I own a X256 Corsair SSD drive it runs in Primary not in optical, don't know how else to explain it to you.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say that every SSD out there can run on SATA I, II, and III. I haven't found any documentation stating that the OCZ Agility 3 line works with SATA I, only SATA II and III. Some SSDs might not be able to appropriately step-down to SATA I. Besides, there is absolutely no reason to put an SSD in a 2010-2011 MB's/MBP's optical drive bay when it would have a greater benefit in the primary slot. At least a 5400RPM HDD isn't going to reduce in performance all that much when stepping down to SATA I while an SSD will.

 

On my macbook pro, I am able to run windows in fusion directly off the bootcamp partition. Is the reverse possible? Boot into windows, and run the mac virtually in vmware workstation? Not a new image of the mac, but pointing it to the existing mac partition?

 

That's a cool idea, and there probably technically is SOME way of doing something like that, but I think officially you're not allowed to virtualize OS X...I think...or not the regular version...or something.

 

I think that you can legally virtualize starting with Lion.

You can virtualize Snow Leopard on Snow Leopard on a Mac - I don't know if it is allowed under the license terms but there's nothing stopping you from doing it on some of the Virtual Machine products.

 

So i've got mbr 15 late 2011 with 6770 and i7. I've installed windows 7 and applied bootcap soft (drivers and etc.) all seems to work ok, but i don't see catalyst control panel on right mouse click on desktop. How will i change gfx settings? And which driver was installed? Can i update it?

I tried gta 4 and deus ex human revolution, but i have strange feeling that its not fluent, it works with some king of acceleration and decrease of speed. Like clocks are not stable and jump all the time.

any comments?

 

The display drivers Apple includes are the most barebones you can get. They're also very outdated. You can install updated drivers with CCC right on top, and you'll get full access.

 

And what about other drivers? Do i need updates? Where i can get them?

Also, as i understand, under windows there are no intel gfx. Only 6770 is working?

 

I've not found any that are necessary.

Correct. As such, battery life will be significantly worse in Windows than in OS X.

 

Can you please navigate me to a proper osx ati driver? Cause i tried to download usual ati mobility utility and it said that i don't have proper hardware. Latest WHQL driver would suite me. Thx for you time.

 

Downloading the file (~1 MB) from AMD won't work. You need the full driver file (100+ MB). Browse the Guru3D forums for links.

 

I just got into running bootcamp Windows using Parallels since I upgraded to 8gb ram. Love having the option to either boot the same Windows partition separate or run virtual within OSX.

 

First time Mac user (late 2011 15 MBP, i7, 8gb RAM, 512 SSD, 1GB GPU, hi-res) and having some eyestrain issues (likely due to the difference in text rendering between Windows and Apple, see http://forum.notebookreview.com/apple-mac-os-x/661101-fuzzy-text-mbp-15-hi-res-ag.html#post8501493 for the discussion). I want to install Windows to help me along in my adjustment and looking for some recent experiences/opinions.

I've read a good portion of the last year's content on this thread as well as: Running Windows on a Mac (Part 1): Lion vs. Win7 performance shootout | ITworld, I recommend parts 2 and 3 as well, they have some good info!

I've used XP Pro for the last 10 years, and really like it, but am up for a change to Win7 if people think it's the way to go - are there any compelling reasons people can suggest for going that way? One potential problem with staying with XP is that I have the chance to upgrade to Photoshop CS5 and it needs a 64x system - does anybody have experience with XP 64x? I'll probably just keep Photoshop and lightroom in OS X and use windows for productivity stuff (office, etc..). I like the idea on previous poster had of installing Win7 and then having the option of using XPmode in Win7. Anybody comment on whether this is still a VM Fusion only option or have any experience with this?

The other decision is to bootcamp or VM? I'm kind of leaning towards a bootcamp partition and then being able to boot windows or use it as a VM, as per the last poster - it works well? Do VM Fusion or Parallels both work for this? Also, where would I install my windows apps so that they would be accesible to windows both under bootcamp and VM, or would I have to install two sets, one on each side of the partition? Since I likely won't be doing much heavy lifting in Windows if I keep Photoshop as OSX, would it just be best to keep everything VM?

Thanks in advance for any insight!

 

Again, do NOT use windows XP. It has open security issues at the design level. Because mainstream support for XP has already ended *years ago* - no design changes will be made. In 23 months, all support for Windows XP will be dropped, including basic security updates. Do NOT use windows XP. Do NOT use windows XP. If you ask in more threads, you still need to not use windows XP. Do NOT use it.

---

And, again, I highly recommend not using virtual machines. The performance is not good. You paid a lot of money for your laptop. If you run windows in a virtual machine, windows performance will be in line with a laptop that costs about $350. If you run windows natively, battery life will drop dramatically, and you will have to deal with dual booting, firmware updates that are only available via OS X, managing two sets of largely redundant applications, data, etc. It isn't worth it. Return the laptop and find something else with a similar form factor or any design that is appealing to you that has mainstream windows support.

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Do NOT use XP. Do NOT use XP. Don't use XP.

 

If you're going to use mainly OS X and only need to use Windows for non-demanding applications like MS Office, then running Windows in a WM is the way to go. Parallels is *very* nice at integrating Windows into the OS X environment, sharing the desktop, putting Windows apps in the Dock. It benchmarks slower than Boot Camp, but it's fast enough that I don't notice the difference with office apps even on a 4GB Core 2 Duo Macbook Air.

Boot Camp is the way to go if you want to play games in Windows. Gaming is possible in Parallels 7, but it's limited to DX9 and frame rates will be less than in Boot Camp (~25-50% less). Gaming in Fusion is a non-starter.

It is possible to install a VM and Boot Camp and have Parallels or Fusion use the Boot Camp partition, but there are limitations. For example, you can't pause or suspend Windows in Parallels and then boot into Boot Camp. Not sure if a similar limitation applies to Fusion.

The MBP 15 is a bad choice if you're going to run Windows as your primary OS. I think it is viable to run Windows as the primary OS on a MBA or MBP 13, but not so much on a MBP 15 or 17 due to the dedicated graphics. As masterchef341 and others pointed out, battery life really suffers.

 

I will have a new MBP 15" soon and would like to use Windows 7 and OSX. I am currently using Windows 7 computer. This will be the first time use MBP as main machine, and thus would like to have as smooth transition as possible. I am somewhat in the sameboat as DanoD on how to have both OSX and Windows 7 on MBP, bootcamp vs VM vs bootcamp run as VM? By the way, DanoD's link from ItWorld has pretty nice info on running Windows on MBP.

Below is how I would like to use it:
1. Use OSX primarily.
2. Access some Windows software from OSX, mainly Outlook 2010 and OneNote, and occasionally some other Windows software.
3. Able to access files in both OSX and Windows 7 from both OS.
4. Have backups for both OSX and Windows 7.
5. Run Windows 7 natively when necessary.

From the above use case, I think I would have installed Windows 7 in bootcamp and use VMWare Fusion to run the bootcamp Windows 7 as VM in OSX to be able to run Windows software. By having Windows 7 on bootcamp, I will also have option to run it natively.

However, here are some questions and concern:
1. There are some features from Fusion/Parallels that will be disabled by running bootcamp as VM, such as pause/suspend. This may or may not be important to me. My question here is, does this mean that the OSX won't sleep when I am in OSX and have Windows 7 bootcamp running as VM? For example, if I close the lid on MBP, OSX usually goes to sleep. What will happen when there is a VM running? Will OSX still sleep? If so, what will happen to the VM instances?
2. Sharing files. Since I am currently Windows 7 user, all of my data is Windows 7. So I am planning to keep those data in the bootcamp partition and access them from OSX. It appears that Fusion will allow file sharing between the two. What is the best way to share files between OSX and Windows when Windows running as VM and in bootcamp?
3. Backup and restore. What is the best backup strategy to backup the setup I am planning to have? Will time machine backup for OSX, then Windows System Image for Windows 7 in bootcamp work? I don't mind doing this as long as I can restore them easily. Otherwise is there better backup solution?

Otherwise, is it better to have Windows 7 as VM only?

Thank you in advance!

 

1. If you close the lid, it will sleep. That's not the issue. It's when you use a native Windows (Boot Camp) partition for the VM, and you choose to suspend or pause Windows running in the VM, you cannot then reboot the machine into native Windows without corrupting the Windows partition. So by default, the suspend and pause features are disabled in Parallels when using a native Windows partition. But that doesn't mean the VM will keep OS X running and prevent it from sleeping when you close the lid. I'm not sure how Fusion works.

2. File sharing is easy when running Windows in the VM. When running Windows native with Boot Camp drivers, you can read files on your OS X HFS+ partition but can't write to them. Similarly, you can read NTFS within OS X without a VM but can't write to it. If you planned to run Windows natively through Boot Camp a lot and not use a VM, I'd suggest creating a third FAT32 partition during the install process which both operating systems can write to. But since you're going to use a VM, a dedicated sharing partition is probably not necessary. There are also commercial tools that allow NTFS writing from OS X and HFS+ writing from Windows.

3. Backup & restore can be easy with a virtual partition, but it gets harder with a native partition. If you use Parallels with a virtual partition under OS X and *not* Boot Camp, then Parallels can make periodic snapshots of your virtual partition. After the initial snapshot, the rest are deltas. The snapshots can be backed up with Time Machine, and Parallels can restore a VM from snapshots. Nice. But if you run Windows from a native (Boot Camp) partition, you'll need to back up OS X and Windows independently. Running Windows System Image in native Windows via Boot Camp should work, and running Windows System Image within a VM may work, but I haven't tried it. For routine backups, I'd use Windows Backup or whatever incremental backup tool you prefer.

By the way, if you decide to do this, I suggest using Parallels instead of VMWare Fusion. As of Parallels 7 & Fusion 4, Parallels is faster and more stable.

 

Thanks for the quick answers!

Great. I guess I am not too worried about sleep/suspend feature of VM then.

Having said that I have a few more questions.

1. Based on what I read here and various other site, Fusion and Parallels are about equal. Fusion 4 with the latest update seems to bring it on par to Parallel. Do you have specific issue with Fusion? I am leaning towards Fusion because it is cheaper. Also, which have a better support and updates to fix bugs and add features?

2. More question about running Windows bootcamp as VM. If I need to restart the host OS (OSX), do I have to shutdown the VM instances first? Or will the VM does that automatically? Will I corrupt Windows if I forget to shut it down before I restart OSX?

3. Also, when I run Windows bootcamp as VM, and say running Office apps such as Outlook, what is the impact on battery life? Specifically, will running VM keep the dedicated GPU running or will OSX decide to use the integrated GPU on MBP 15? I think dedicated GPU will be one that draw a lot of power, so it would be nice if the driver choose the integrated GPU while running VM with just office apps.

Thanks again in advance!

 

1. I think Parallels and Fusion were more or less equal before the latest versions. I went with Parallels mainly because a lot of people were complaining about bugs in Fusion 4, and because Parallels 7 seemed a lot faster in the various benchmark comparisons I read. Parallels is also better with battery life (see answer below). I suggest you Google Fusion 4 vs Parallels 7, read the comparisons, and then decide.

2. The guest OS and VM will shut down. It just makes the OS X shutdown take longer.

3. Parallels has a battery life option. If you choose the option for longer battery life, it runs the integrated GPU. If you choose the option for performance, it runs the dedicated GPU. You can't switch on the fly. Changing from one to the other requires restarting the VM. Fusion always runs the dedicated GPU.

 

Thanks for quick reply, that was very helpful.

I did read quite a bit by searching Fusion 4 vs Parallel 7, review generally favors Parallel but Fusion is not far behind. However, I didn't know Parallel has battery life option until you mention that. It's good to know Parallel has that for laptop user.

I guess I will try Fusion first and see how it goes. I wish it has the battery life option.

 

Does anyone know if Thunderbolt works properly in bootcamp?

 

Yes it does, with some caveats:

Thunderbolt ports and displays: Frequently asked questions (FAQ)

 

I'm an ignorant audiophile and I'm wondering if VMware Fusion will degrade the sound, coming from the USB port digitally, in any sort of way. It shouldn't, right?

I'm going to be running Diablo 3 in Fusion, as well as other programs in both OSes simultaneously. Would 8Gb suffice? I'm expecting the mbpr to last me through four to five years of college (biomed engineering).

 

whaaaa...????

Diablo 3 is made native OSX. Diablo 3 in fusion will run horrid compared to just running it natively in OSX.

 

I've had only bad experiences with games running in OSX, so I assumed. Still wondering if there will be any difference in sound if playing through a virtual machine.