The absolute disaster has finally been reviewed

were did I say that ?
I said it throttles by defult, can you read ?

Again I've seen people do 3.75Ghz with an UV and others with 3.5Ghz. Depends on silicon lottery. This is how The I7 8750H behaves, anything elese like" 3.9Ghz on all cores with no UV" is straight up overclocking. Allowing unlimited short power MAX sate, raising normal TDP is OVERCLOCKING.

There are also thin laptops like the RB2018 with a 60W tdp(will lower to 35W if the temps break a certain threshold, can be avoided with LM)

 

This implies that the 8750H can run at full turbo @ 45Watts.
You do realize that right?

Also you haven't seen anything. You are clearly talking out of your ass at this point.

 

And yes it's possible,but unlikely(in rendering), this guy GS65 holds full turbo at 52W with the UV.


In gaming 45W TDP is more than enough for an undervolted I7 to hold 3.9Ghz.

His GS65 can do 3.75GHZ@45W
While his aero 15x does 3.56@51W

BOTH are behaving how a AN I7 8750H should be(apart from his aero holding 51W for some reason) . Running above TDP is not allowed unless for short bursts

I applaud MSI(GT62,allowing unlimited power draw) and razer(60W TDP) for going out of there way and fixing intel STOCK power throttling through overclocking. But to blame the chassis for it and not intel is absurd

RB2018 can't handle the I7 8750H@60W though. So you would need LM(SINCE you're fine with an AW repaste, you should be fine with a RB2018 repaste)

You're the one talking straight out of your ass

This a helios 500 again

 

So now you're quoting some weird guy who has no relation so anything at this point, with no clockspeeds, no numbers, no temps, no power limit, while admitting that it will never run at full speed given its low power limit at the same time saying that it's somehow possible and end the sentence with I'm the one talking out of my ass.

 

1100/1240, last i check thats a fraction isnt it?

also, for desktop performance, to get close to it, clevo p870tm could do it, at fraction of desktop's performance.

also also!! it'll be nice if we get to see the heatsink design.. if cpu/gpu heatsink are shared in any of the notebook.. BLAH that score will only get even smaller fraction when both are being utilized. yuck to thin bga performance notebooks

 

Sence it's so difficult for you to comprehend anything above kindergarten level. Let me re state this.

-the aero 15x and the GS65 both have stock intel Power limits. 45W PL1, 80W PL2 that can only be accessed for 28 seconds

-you can hold 3.9Ghz in games when undervolted. Even in BF1 and the witcher 3

-in rendering this gets more tricky. Can do 3.9Ghz in the first run. But depends heavily on silicon lottery in further runs.

-this is how the I7 8750H was designed, will happen to thick and light machines(see helios 500 CB runs)

-the RB2018 has a 60W TDP. So the laptop can do that 3.9ghz you so anxiously want .

1000/1240 is also a fraction from a thick as **** laptop. Yet I don't see you talking about that.

Again, the I7 8750H is designed to have ~1100 subsequent runs. It's stock full performance is 1170(in first run, 1100 in subsequent runs) not 1240. And you're forgetting that an UV can get that 1240 in a thin laptop in the first run. If we assume the same 80 point achievement increase applies for subsequent runs as well we get ~1190(4% drop from the first UV runs, 3% increase over the stock first run) . But that is speculation.

Thick BGA laptops deserve the Turdbook label more than thin ones. At least the thin laptops offer battery life and portability for the performance you're losing. Turdbooks like the helios 500 and the AW R4 offer nothing over a machine like the GE63 or the GM501.(apart from the overheating 1080 in the Turdbook AW R4)

 

Are you mental?
You got to be trolling at this point. There is absolutely no way in hell that you are serious. You literally are telling me that with silicon lotterly luck u can turn a 70-90W CPU to a 45W CPU. You are absolutely and utterly clueless about anything. You spread so much nonsense without proof, quoting random people with no regard to any context expecting people to believe you and just take your word which are absolutely baseless while proving yourself wrong a couple of times down the road and now you look absolutely ridicolous.

At this point you're trying to defend turdbooks which are portable heatplates if anything.

 

i dont need to talk about it, it is a fact that reason it is running at a fraction of performance due to thin laptop is unable to cool it. since you originally stated " Thin and lights can handle the I7 8750H in thin laptops. You dont have to buy GT62 like laptops to get full performance." i thought i'd remind you again you are infact wrong.

if you had said, thin and lights can HANDLE it, yes it can, at fraction of its performance, then you also said "you dont need to buy thicker like laptops to get "full performance"".

well now, apparently you do need thicker laptops to get full performance!! we all know thicker laptops are more likely to come with thicker heatsink and bigger fans vs thinner ones. as the numbers you quoted for a thin laptop is at a fraction of a thicker laptop.

 

1 The I7 8750 is a 60~80W cpu at CB like load(the GS65 i quoted does 3.9Ghz@52W with -150Mv UV). Not your stupid 70~90W figure.

2 give me an I7 8750H machine that does 3.9ghz(1240) in CB without an UV(HINT: they don't exist)

The helios 500 can't get 1240 stock
The GT63 can't get 1240 stock
The aero 15x can't get 1240 stock

That's how the chip is designed. The chip full performance is 1150 in the first run, 1100 in subsequent. To assume that the limiting factor is the chassis is stupid. Thin laptops can handle the I7 8750H.


If you want me to agree that 1240 is the I7 8750H full performance, and if you want me to also agree that thin laptops, can't run it at full performance you would have to admit that thick laptops can't run it at "full" performance. Which means all I7 8750H laptops out there are not running at full performance.

An UV allows a thin laptop like the GM501 to get "full performance". The same applies for turdbooks like the GT63. both thin and thick laptops have the same power limit. Danishblunt here once sent me a GE laptop doing 1280 -WITH AN UV-. Now suddenly this is a GT63 exclusive feat.

 

You see what I'm working with here? The guy is literally contradicting himself acting like he's right all the time. He keeps on going.

 

Feel free to believe that if that satisfies you.

 

You would think when 2 people constantly point out your contradictions that at some point you'd realize, but apparenntly delusion is strong on this one.

 

Facts: Thin and Light= lower performance, throttling. MacBooks are also far from being rendering machines either. They got Left Behind years ago. They even have issues with YouTube even overheating them. Pro, hardly! People who are serious video editors and content creators, have abandoned MacBooks and thin and light jokebooks. To get thin and light, and battery life the yuppies love, you sacrifice performance. You can choose one or the other.

 

Again feel free to believe that if it satisfies your narcissism. Your the one who made that stupid claim that the I7 8750H is different in a laptop like helios 500 compared with the GM501 and the GP63. The burden of proof lays with the guy who makes those outrageous statements, not on me the one refuting you. Your using the chewbacca defense, you spout to much Bs Too fast and hope I have neither the patience nor the time to refute it. Hoping to get away with it and mislead.

This is one of the proper thick laptops you love(helios 500). Even further from full performance than the thin laptops you've been ****ting on for 5 pages.

Between the I7 8700K/I9 8950HK vs I7 8750H this is true. Between the I7 8750H in thick laptops and the I7 8750H in thin ones is false

 

Sorry! Maybe true for your 5 minute project. Work on something lengthy and see which one gets workflow out the door. Big difference between unthrottled hardware with proper cooling when you create content than hobbled thin and light yuppie boxes. Why do you think I carry a Workstation when I have work to do? I need hardware which does not get in my way, and slows down workflow. Faster the work gets done the better the productivity. Proper cooling also sure helps keep down dead boxen. Choose tools or toys? I choose tools.

 

According to Hitchens's razor it's Danishblunt job to prove THAT I7 8750H THIN LAPTOPS CAN'T PERFORM ON PAR WITH I7 8750H THICK LAPTOPS.

This Danishblunt argument. Listing subsequent CB runs as evidence. Yet when i do this too this evidence becomes BS.

This is not good evidence


Neither is this.(wait until Danishblunt comes screeching about first CB run thing) subsequent aero 15x runs beat the GT63 first run. But this isn't sufficent.



Come on mister know it all @Danishblunt follow Hitchens's razor and prove my statement false, I am tired of listing to you preach about the thick I7 8750H aptops being better . So man up and prove me wrong. Or admit that you are wrong and shut up(which isn't so hard to do)

 

Exacly. Sadly some people have this very odd idea that a thin and light will be able to run it with full performance, when they won silicon lottery and uncervolt. Which everyone with half a brain knows, is absolutely bs.

I don't even know why this kid is still goin on about how some thicker notebooks also have that power limit throttle.

 

*most thick laptops. The helios 500 and the GT63 aren't even matching the thin ones in CB runs.

Your narcissism is of the charts.


Re listing my argument so you dont ignore it

According to Hitchens's razor it's Danishblunt job to prove THAT I7 8750H THIN LAPTOPS CAN'T PERFORM ON PAR WITH I7 8750H THICK LAPTOPS.

 

im not going to find one for you . and just because someone can't find it for you or you can't find it yourself, does not make you less wrong.

we laptop enthusiasts know thin is unable to cool given the "standard" cooling design that they come with. it can't get stock performance in thin doesnt make it okay for people to accept it, otherwise they'll give you less and less and eventually you'll have a crappy standard you only half of what you pay! (which is now the norm!)

honestly if I want a thin laptop that can cool, it'll be bga, thin layer of vapor chamber to expand contact to heat pipes, it would be 4-6 pipes, cooled by 3-4 fans. that way it'll still have thin design, and capable of cooling it while getting full performance, in exchange for a bulky but thin laptop.

 

A thin and light with a GTX 1060+ I7 8750H will perform like a thick one with the same configuration.

You can raise the thick one to gtx 1080+ I7 8700K and the thin one would get slaughtered.

Thin ones limit the GPU power to 1070MQ instead of a 1080. And the CPU power to I7 8750H from I7 8700K (overheating I9 8950HK in BGA)

 

You seem to be misunderstanding me. I am not here to defend pieces of **** like the MBP and the XPS. I an here to defend the AERO 15x/GM501/RB2018

The RB2018 vapour champer cooling system is close to what your describing

 

ahh the razor blade, though i didnt see internal design, given the fact that company like to save money and charge lots, while making it thin, it'll be just as bad as apple. imo its probably a thin throttle book.

for it to be performing better than thicker laptops when both are throttling, then it needs to have:
1 superior cooling design as how i previously stated.
2 possibly powerful fan for more air pressure
3 less bios / EC restriction
4 better binned BGA chip vs another BGA chip which is entirely luck.
5 heatsink capacity vs software stress duration vs power generated during test

 

There are 3 people literally trying to hammer sense into your thick skull and obviously nothing works. It doesn't matter what I post, it doesn't matter what the others post, it doesn't matter whats fact, in your own little deluded world you will only accept the things you want to accept as truth. So in a nutshell, I'm simply going to treat you like a 7 year old kid that tells a grown man about how rocket science works.

Just to give you an idea how bad the razer blade is, the BIOS chip is literally underneath the heatsink that cools down the GPU and CPU. They haven't figured out after countless RMA's and years of failing that they might want to redesign their notebook.

 

Don't say that RB2018 = MBP please. One of them can't hold gets down to 0.8Ghz in CB and the other holds 3.2Ghz(again: silicon lottery at play for why the RB is holding 3.4Ghz or higher)

@Danishblunt RB2018 planned obselence issues aren't the topic here. It's whether I7 8750H THIN LAPTOPS CAN'T PERFORM ON PAR WITH I7 8750H THICK LAPTOPS. Every single proof you provided here has benn repeatedly refuted.

My point was that there are examples where the thick ones lose. To prove(per Hitchens razer this is Danishblunt job) that thin laptops perform on par with thick ones with the same configuration.

I am having an adult conversation with @ole!!! . You're the one screeching here without evidence like a 7 year old

 

heres the thing, there was a comparsion between GT63 and RB2018 so i checked into it.

googled RB2018 for 15" and it shows internal CPU/GPU heatsink is of 1 giant piece. underneath might have individual module but i seriously think its shared vapor chamber, if it is shared it make sense it'll have a MUCH larger heat capacity than GT63, which may explain why it performed better in CPU test, as for GT63 cpu sided heatsink only 2 to 2.5 pipes working hard to rid of heat.

now if the test was to put both CPU/GPU to stress, or a much longer CPU stress test, GT63 will very likely to come out on top due to thicker radiator and area. assuming no bios/EC/fan restriction.

as for RB2017 17" if there was one, i can only assume it probably has even bigger heatsink with bigger capacity than the 15".

 

The RB2018 does the one thing it needs to do. Hold the I7 8750H and the 1070MQ at peak performance. This especially true with LM that allows those laptops to pass combined AIDA64 torture below 80c with no throttling.

If you stick the 1070MQ+ I7 8750H in a titan you're not going to get any notable performance increase. From either the CPU or the GPU

Thin and lights limitations come from the parts being used, not on whether thin and lights are in capable of handling them

 

@Danishblunt



Th RB2018 pushes the 1070MQ to it's absolute peak. The aero 15x can't break 15700 in graphics. Yet somehow they are equal.

The picture you provided has the RB2018 in gaming mode. An overclocked 90W 1070MQ gets 84c in a power virus like furmark, while simultaneously running Prime 95. That's not so bad acctualy

 

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/15723585
Indeed glorious.

Why you posting screenshots from turd? Please post screen from your thin and light turd that can handle the glorious titan.

 

1080.

What do you expect ? For the 1070MQ to beat it ?

 

Well no, but you clearly do. So go on. You wanted me to prove that thick 8750H notebooks are better. Now please show me some more turds that will throttle to no end.

@ole!!!

 

You're making BS as you go. Give me one instance where I said a 1070MQ can beat A 1080 .

My entire argument was. In a probably cooled thin laptop, you will get the same performance as a thick laptop with the same configuration. GTX 1060 in a titan is not going to smash one in the GS65.

I wanted you to PROVE THAT THE I7 8750H PERFORMS NOTICEABLY BETTER IN THICK LAPTOPS THAN PROBABLY COOLED THIN ONES(READ AS: NOT P955)NOT THE WHOLE MACHINE. Which is your responsibility per Hitchens razor

 

"Hitchens's razor is an epistemological razor asserting that the burden of proof regarding the truthfulness of a claim lies with the one who makes the claim, and if this burden is not met, the claim is unfounded, and its opponents need not argue further in order to dismiss it."


It is not my job to prove THAT I7 8750H THIN LAPTOPS CAN'T PERFORM ON PAR WITH I7 8750H THICK LAPTOPS.

I shouldn't even have to dismiss is it.

 

well yes, in this case razer seems they did a decent job and put in more money into cooling than i had thought they'd. imho from enthusiasts perspective its all a way of "mark up". i wont pursue it as a lot also comes down to consumer not doing research to understand what they buy into.

the speculation is right on, the heat dissipation of RB2018 is definitely less of GT63 due to thickness/fan size, people would be stupid to argue on that part. RB design is to take heat away from cpu/gpu modules and keep it in there so it gives fan time to dissipate it overtime.

kinda like cpu cache is too little so we have ram. A stress test generate heat is more than it can dissipate; once capacity is filled to a certain temp, then the entire cooling system will overheat, which GT63 wins here.

now if we only compare CPU side of thing it was clear capacity is not the strong point here for GT63, especially fan probably doesnt even spin until cpu hits a certain temp, by then capacity is filled long before that happens.

both design has its benefit tho

 

I just did.

Also the point was that thin and lights have weaksauce cooling, hence they have garbage castrated hardware. The GT 63 is able to cool down a 200W TDP GPU, meanwhile your turd.....
meanwhile:



NNo castration

 

The razer blade can cool it's parts probably.

Of course it has less heat dissipation. If it didn't have less heat dissipation it would have used an I9 8950HK and a GTX 1080(200W) instead of an I7 8750H and a GTX 1070MQ(90W)

The GT63 CPU sometimes wins against other I7 8750H laptops. It losses some times. It all depends on silicon lottery. A heluos 500 that can cool a desktop ryzen shouldn't lose to an aero 15x. But it does because not all I7 8750H get the same frequncy at 45W.

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with silicon lottery but with bloatware you clueless human being. rofl

 

Setting the CPU TDP to 200W is OVERCLOCKING. Razer does it(sets it to 60W, which is basically the same thing)

The CPU LISTED IS NOT AN I7 8750H(40X multiplier on all 6 cores)

 

Prove that it's bloatware causing the helios 500 to get spanked occasionally by an aero. Show me the helios 500 getting 1250 stock. Per Hitchens's razor, you just made a claim now go prove it.

 

Except that it's stock from MSI you clueless human being. Also you really want me to go and grab another screen from a 8750H instead which will showcase literally the same except for clockspeeds on the very same model?

So then you can proceed while complaining how I gave the proof you wanted while then ranting about how notebook x which is thicker somehow doesn't perform as you want?

You drunk or somethingn?

 

Changing the stock TDP/frequncy/short max power duration beyound the stock normal values is OVERCLOCKING. When Chinese manufacturers set the ULV cpu TDP TO 44W is that stock too ?


Still no proof on bloatware argument

Still no proof THAT I7 8750H STOCK THIN LAPTOPS CAN'T PERFORM ON PAR WITH I7 8750H STOCK THICK LAPTOPS.

Just insulting as you go along.

 

problem with RB2018 design is that in a long term gaming session, it'll throttle both cpu/gpu assuming fan doesnt just go full blast 24/7.

with GT63, it'll probably throttle at start but once fan starts spinning, long term gaming session will probably have no throttling, assuming no ec/battery/bios throttling cancer doing its work.

long term gaming session would be something like, 4ghz at all time w/e the max frequency cpu can be kept, GPU under constant load, gaming for 3+ hrs on high/ultra resolution.

 

In gaming even the aero 15x can hold 3.9Ghz. Power throttling kicks in when the CPU gets pushed to 100%(which no game does that to an I7 8750H currently). And happens across stock thin/thick laptops to the same degree.

For example at max fans(64DB) a GE63/GP63 can manhandle the I7 8750H.Literally 68C average after hours of BF1 with UV. The GS65 gets ~75C with cooler boost max fans in BF1. both with rock solid 3.9Ghz.

Most of the beefier cooling of the titan goes to keep the 1080 in check. The CPU cooling is mostly the same.

The only issue I have with thins is Max-Q. Had nvidia didn't make the Max-Q shortcut we would have seen innovative GM501 like laptops handling the 1170.

 

Yeah, I can see that. And every score I see from first round Cinebench R15 from 6 cores BGA in this thread is crippled. And worse it will be after first round. I put it here!!

Correct CBR-15 scores for BGA clocks ([email protected] all 6 cores). Not even with optimized voltage for the fixed clock speed.

 

@Papusan MB for first point.



My argument was never that BGA laptops were performance kings. It was that the I7 8750H performance in thin laptops is consistent with the I7 8750H in thick ones.

If one wants performance and doesn't need portability . LGA all the way. The sku X4C i s lighter than a BGA thick I9 laptops and slaughters them in all categories. Once the F5 gets upgraded it will return to being the pound to pound king.

I can't see the brainwashing in my arguments.

 

What? Where did you see 1650cb? I clocked down my LGA down to i7-8750H clocks and just run Cinebench R15 (1327cb). The numbers speak for themself. Even an i7-8750H manage 48-50w package power in first round Cinebench R15. See also the link in my post and follow the posts right below.

 

Sorry about the first point. I read the identical system scores. I've seen your score and stock scores of 1290@ 44W is insane. BGA silicon lottery winners get ~1150@45W stock . Just goes and proves how badly binned BGA cpus are.

The I7 8750H is just Trash I7 8700K chips that didn't make the cut.instead of throwing bad chips they sell them as locked BGA to post their yields. So getting smashed in efficiency is expected.

My argument in this thread was never that BGA laptops were performance kings. It was that the I7 8750H performance in thin laptops is consistent with the I7 8750H in thick ones.which is true.
Whether the I7 8750H sucks or not is a matter for another day.

If you lose the BGA silicon lottery you get this.(helios 500). 940 for 45W, atrocious.

 

LOL......my laugh for the day, thanks DB.

But some of the results of the i9 Macbook Pro has it bottoming out at 2.2ghz on all cores....yuck.

 

now the sheeps who bought macbook pro with i9 all realize 6 core cpu is all worthless unless it is a 5 sec burst turbo, then need 2 mins to cool off, rinse repeat.

 

Similar verdict reached by Lisa Gade from MobileTechReview:



One would have to be a pretty hardcore Mac fanboy to buy this overpriced garbage.

 

This thread has gotten a little overcooked and is now closed.

Start a new topic if you wish.

Charles