The perfect Apple-but-not-Apple notebook.

I like my 15" MBP for the most part, but I'm wondering if there are any other notebooks that mirror the at least somewhat attractive design, edge-to-edge panel, and ~6-7 hours of battery life on a display this big (or something proportional to that).

I'm a little out of the loop as far as up-and-coming notebooks; are there any such things? Didn't find any battery life numbers for HP's Envy 15... what else should I be looking for?

I ask because while I like the MBP, OSX-SL isn't something I can't live without, so... yeah.

 

Good luck trying to full a full-featured 15" notebook that is 1" thin and sells for anywhere near the starting MSRP of the base MBP.

 

Just looking for ideas, is all.

 

There are no laptops that match the unibody aluminum design of the MBP, but there are some good looking laptops out there. There aren't many 1" thick 15" laptops either.

The problem is that, despite how everyone complains about Apple prices, if you can find a 15" laptop that competes with the size, battery life, design, and durability of the MBP, it's going to be a premium laptop that will likely cost no less than $2000. The HP Envy 15 is a perfect example.

 

I think the HP Envy 15 is about as close as you'll get right now to a MBP in terms of aesthetics. But as you know, battery life is a big question mark and my suspicion is that it won't be as good as the MBP in this regard but we'll just have to wait.

HP I think is the first mainstream brand that's openly making a notebook that's essentially taking as much as possible from the MBP's playbook, so I don't think you'll find something more similar other than it. I laughed when I saw the packaging shot of the Envy on engadget



Obviously HP is not ashamed to admit "if you can't beat them, copy them". Which is flattering for Apple but I think this is bordering on ridiculous. I mean I expect this from a no-name Chinese firm, but HP, the number one leader in the PC world?

 

Imitation is common in every industry, but that HP packaging is pure RIP-OFF. They should have changed it at least slightly.

If you really want a high-performance, good looking, and reasonably priced 15" alternative, there really aren't that many out there. Dell discontinued the 15" XPS, so the only choices are the 13" and 16" Studio XPS; Sony doesn't even have a premium 15," and neither does Alienware.

 

Having owned a Dell XPS 16 I don't think it's even near the same class hardware-design-wise as a MBP. The thing overheated into an inferno (if I recall correctly, the underside especially and the trackpad quickly became uncomfortable to the touch), the body was wobbly and had a lot of give/squeaks which is to be expected from the plastic parts; the replacement Dell sent me was slightly better but definitely not good. The worst part was that I could barely get two hours out of the battery. The only thing to ever come out from Dell that is worthy of comparison, in some respects, to a macbook pro/air was the Adamo but we all know how reasonably priced that was.

I think Sony's worth watching though. Their current lineup isn't much but from what I hear, good things might be coming down the pipe before year end.

 

Dell Adamo !

 

Sony's higher products and infact the higher end products of most brands are probably the closest you are going to get. The main advantage you'll find in the Apple like alternatives is better port selection.

 

The Envy 15 with its standard 6 cell battery should get 3-4 hours, and with the slice battery, will last around 7+ hours. Weight without the slice will be 1/3 of a pound lighter, but with the slice < 1/2 of a pound heavier. Of course the hardware (quad core/8 thread i7 CPU, HD 4830 GPU, 4 DDR3 memory slots) and port selection (eSATA) will at least match the MBP or exceed it. Average build quality has yet to be determined, until many more units are on the market, but will probably be similar to the MBP - being above average for consumer notebooks but not as good as say Dell/Lenovo/HP business notebooks (Latitude/Precision, X/T/W series, Elitebook).

 

Most of the Sony SZ series.
They're made by the same company who manufactures the MBPs anyway (Quanta)

 

I quite like that HP(spec wise), but that HP badge ruins it...

 

Apparently it has dual hard drive bays, which is INCREDIBLE

 

I would say Sony vaio,

 

Because the ODD is included externally.

 

spec wise the envy is smashing the MBP, i would lose the optical drive for those kind of specs in a MBP any day.

 

I'd prefer the external ODD, you're not really losing it.

 

you can replace your optical drive on Macbooks (Pro or not) and put in a second hard drive as well... which is kinda nice for those that don't need their optical drive very much.

 

im not so fussed about the 2 hdd bays as i am about the i7 quad and 4830 graphics, they must of used some of the extra space for cooling because the footprint is basically identical to a MBP.

 

yeah.. 2 hard drives.. probably some extra space for extra cooling.. but how are the benchmarks? its possible they also they undervolted the CPU and GPU... and underclocked the GPU, which they (and Apple too) have been known to do.

 

Higher typical reliability in use, extended robustness and better quality control are also a factor in price-comparable cases. The unibody is the most naked statement of form over function and outright marketing to the armchair tech experts thus far (although perhaps the titanium powerbook ranks a close second) - the process has no advantages in laptop manufacture (in fact, more problems than advantages) apart from the look & feel. The good thing that HP didn't copy from Apple is the moulded magnesium construction: Much more robust if you're not going to treat it with velvet gloves.

What really annoys me (at no company in particular, more the people who buy them) is that makers of otherwise perfectly viable gear invest huge amounts of time and money into ripping off Apple's frequently extremely flawed, marketing-for-the-vacuous-masses-driven product engineering and design, because it's so successful in grabbing mindshare among those aforementioned masses.

The problem is of course, that no-one does marketing to the gullible, the 'individualistic mass' and clueless as well as Apple in tech - indeed, the way unibody was promoted is a case in point. But when you look at many of the marketing efforts of other tech companies, you just want to cry - it's terrible. So inevitably, they kind of *have* to follow Apple's lead. Kinda sad.

 

Well, the unibody approach does have a tangible benefit -- I much prefer the heft and feel of this MBP over all sorts of pieced-together notebooks with which I've worked in the past. I'm the farthest thing from an Apple fanboy, though, and in keeping this notebook, the whole "oh, you're a Mac" nonsense was actually a con in my book. No, I'm not a Mac. It's a laptop, not a way of life. You'll never see me typing my life story in a coffee shop somewhere.

Other than that, what qualifies as extremely flawed Apple marketing-for-the-vacuous-masses from a product/engineering standpoint?

 

of course carving a laptop out of a block causes more difficulty in manufacture (compared to assembling it from segmented parts).

this is clear.

we are more concerned with the end result though. that is the whole point. apple invested a ton of money into their manufacturing process to deliver a product that better approximates the apple design philosophy (minimalism).

the macbook pro has had user acclaim as well as a positive critical acclaim since its introduction and the new "aluminum block" (unibody) models continue to both sell well and review well with normal users and technical experts alike.

of course, it is trendy to have a dissenting opinion, and you aren't required to want minimalism. that is why apple doesn't sell every computer in the world (many people value other things more), but I encourage you to recognize that aesthetics is not a joke. people are willing to pay for it, and therefore it has a real dollar value. it is not necessary to be so jaded about people, mock them, call them clueless masses...

its trendy to do it, but it's also rude and ridiculous.

 

Apple takes a different approach to offering its products.

Remember the iPhone? Other smartphone companies were all trying to get a slice in the market by asking customers what they wanted and offering it. The problem is, everybody wants different things and in the end you end up with a compromised product. A camel instead of a horse

With the iPhone, Apple never asked for anyone's opinion on its features or design. It stuck to its vision and after launch, blew all other established smart phone companies into the water. Some are still asking themselves, why didn't we ever think of such a product?

Want a laptop that is beautiful, solid, reliable, portable and fast? The result is a MacBook Pro.

Some people will disagree and call it names but their words are strictly to be ignored. You cant please everybody and if you start catering to the needs of a vocal minority, your products start stagnating.

 

Different strokes for different folks. If you are into gray and silver as your predominant colors, then the MBP is your laptop. I prefer other colors though. Black, red, blue,or even purple.

I personally don't see the reason to sink 2K into a computer that only has a 1 year warranty. Computers are incredibly complex machines. A lot like a car. It isn't so much as if they will have problems, but when.

If you want pretty accessories, but buy yourself a Rolex and some cufflinks. A pretty laptop, IMO, is an overrated item. It won't impress clients. It won't impress coworkers. You won't impress anyone at a meeting. A nice watch will impress in all those situations, however...........

It's funny when people talk about aesthetics for their computers. In the grand scheme of things, how significant is it really? My long term goal is to retire at 65. Does that help me retire sooner? Does it enable to me make contacts for investors? Does it help me stand up and speak about the future of my team?

I just don't see the point of aesthetics for a computer. Maybe for earrings, purses, or a nice desk. But a laptop?? Especially one that you game on?? If you are going to game, screw how your LAPTOP looks. Maybe there should be more concern with how your GAME looks.

edit:

Reading through this thread makes me wonder why people are so sensitive here.....

I'm trying to find a rude and ridiculous statement that warrants something being called rude and ridiculous. (in bold above)

 

Good to know that it's not only me, who don't care much about the notebooks' aesthetics.

topic: Maybe Sony Vaio CS and BZ series, they are good.

BZ series:
# Estimated Battery Life: Up to 5 hours7 (Standard Capacity Battery)
# Up to 7.5 hours7 (Large Capacity Battery)

I know that it's not REALLY 7 hours, but you can undervolt the CPU,etc

 

No it's not actually, and you've pretty much explained my marketing rant-ette to yourself, all by yourself

Once you tool up to do it - and the tooling is pretty standard fare for anyone who works with mass-produced machined aluminium parts - it's not disproportionately any more expensive than e.g. moulding magnesium (which is, actually, a more high-tech process in terms of the industrial equipment involved).

This is the funny thing. No-one else did it before because it's not an optimal way to produce something strong and lightweight at the same time in the context of a laptop, so everyone was looking elsewhere, with aluminium being used as consumer-friendly accents in the past, because both ABS (be it carbon-reinforced or otherwise) and magnesium don't have the same tactile results for laymen.

Apple were the first to conclude that this material produces positive impressions on the aforementioned masses, and decide to first skin a laptop from it - despite the disadvantages - then take it to the logical conclusion and go the whole hog, despite even more disadvantages. It's true to say they have more experience than any other computer maker in terms of mass-producing in aluminium, but a lot of the quoted advantage of alu by Apple is either made moot by poor thermal engineering or design compromises.

See above.

 

Well, yeah -- it's not significant at all as far as that goes, though I'd argue that not everything in life needs to be entirely long-term goal-oriented, but I digress. You'll be able to do the same things with a $500 notebook as you will with a $1500 notebook, as is the case with an MBP (give or take). And if you're a corporate type, sure, I'd imagine that most people don't care what you're using unless it has a big picture of the Spice Girls plastered on the lid.

My story is that I spend a good amount of time on a computer doing something or another for medical school or anything else under the sun, so I'd at least like to enjoy using said computer. If anything, I hope my fellow med students realize that it's just a laptop and don't brand me with any one of a few stereotypes. And besides, it's not just looks here; I created this thread because I simply can't find other ~15" notebooks with equivalent hardware, dimensions, and battery life.

Kind of like cars for me. I'm a sports car guy. An inexpensive, runs-until-the-cows-come-home vehicle will serve just as well and enable you to get to wherever you need to be to do whatever you need to do, but... different strokes for different folks.

 

Two words...Falcon Northwest. But get your wallet ready!

 

... No way.
They just sell rebranded Sagers and other high end laptops with custom paint jobs. Nothing special there.

 

It would be nice to see more understated-looking gaming-grade laptops for sure. Not every buyer of those can be 12 years old. Many's the time I'm hunting for something, see a machine with the specs I want... only to recoil in horror at the 1337 styling. However, I even bought some of those because I didn't really see a choice.

 

Not to mention that they don't fit what the OP wants. There's no such thing as a perfect laptop. Falcon NW may be among the more (overpriced) powerful gaming laptops, but no business user in their right mind would walk into a meeting room with a flourescent green notebook. A gamer would be agitated by the lower power of most business notebooks (mobile workstations excluded), which excel in durability and warranty coverage. A college student might not like an ultraportable, as typing notes on a small keyboard is near impossible. Engineers may find Macs unsuitable because of the lack of included Windows that is needed to run many of their CAD apps.

Point is, you can't just say a laptop is perfect because it's powerful, expensive, nice looking, durable, inexpensive, light, small or even a combination of all of those traits. Everyone expects different things out of their computers.

 

Your tone suggests that you are some sort of expert, so you feel as though you can make blatant and authorial statements without providing any evidence or citation --I love how you denigrate everyone as "armchair tech experts." I suppose that you are a laboratory expert then? Where did you earn your doctorates again?

According to Apple, the unibody process IS an advantage to manufacturing because it cuts down dramatically on the number of parts used to assemble the notebook. There are also environmental advantages too. If you want to refute Apple's claims, then provide some EVIDENCE. Otherwise, you're just being a pretentious fop like usual.

You clearly have little experience with the TiBook if you think that the unibody is an even more shallow marketing gimmick.

 

Well in all honesty, Apple was touting the durability of the Titanium on the TiBook over aluminum and magnesium. Fast forward till now, a large number of TiBooks have cracks near the DVD drive, or a broken hinge, or both. Then they switched to aluminum. You'll find AluBooks with chassis parts seperating from themselves. So that is no doubt why they switched to the unibody process, to prevent such seperation. But even still, aluminum is one soft metal...

 

Kind of looks like the HP Envy 13 / 15 are going to be the next big thing come next month...

 

The tech support and build quality tends to be highly regarded. Obviously the super high end desktop replacement is overpriced, but the 13 and 15" are nice machines. Falcon will be my next desktop 100%.

 

Yeah could be possible, we won't know for sure for some time though because its being released after windows 7 drops.

 

For those of you who aren't fluent in the language of Pompous, Arrogant Jerks, I'll translate the above for you.....

"I'm a Pompous, Arrogant, Jerk."

Seriously, do you really think you're all that and your biased, narrow minded opinion really matters? Tell that to Apple, specifically their marketing department, and watch them fall to the ground in fits of laughter and disbelief that someone could be so daft.

Let me guess, you also have a blog which you share your "insight" on right? Another vacuous waste of Internet resources.

 

Thanks for writing what we're all thinking, Khris. The guy acts the same way in every post of his, as though he were an expert in every area.

Besides, he is wrong about the unibody's being purely a "form over function" marketing tool. If he has no proof to dispute Apple's claims that the new manufacturing process is beneficial to the company and to the environment, then he needs to present evidence.

MGS, that was precisely my point about the TiBooks. Titanium is an excellent material but used in thin sheets, with lots of other smaller parts, the TiBook was an unreliable disaster (physically, not technically). I used to deal with TiBook repairs, and the hinges were also dreadful, not to mention the cracking on the paper thin sheets of the body panels. Despite the TiBook's obvious failures in functionality, Vogel contends that the unibody is an even more abhorrent "form over function" ploy.

Go figure.

 

Hey mods, please don't lock my thread for the bickering. Legitimate question with (mostly) even-tempered debate.

 

I was personally feeling you guys have been acting equally pompous. But hey, each to his own.

I've learned in my time here that it's not worth it - ignore people you disagree with in a case like this - they get no satisfaction from your response, you get to carry on your business unaffected by them. It's just the better way.

 

I'm with you exi. I really want a powerful, thin, light Windows notebook in a 15" or 17" form factor that includes a high res display and good battery life. I want to be able to move around with it a lot, take it back and forth from work to home, etc. And I don't want it to be made out of cheap looking plastic or be a glossy fingerprint magnet. I also want it to have a full keyboard and two mouse buttons, and no Apple on the back. I used to think that the MacBook's were overpriced. Then I tried to find something similar to run Windows on. I'm looking forward to seeing the Envy 15. We'll see how it looks next month, I guess.

 

Well, it's safe to say you aren't going to find a unibody aluminum PC laptop.

There are a few reason why. Obviously, I hate to go back to the whole unibody concept, but if you talk to a mechanical engineer, he'll tell you that a unibody(or shell structure) is NOT as strong as a frame structure. A frame structure will have an outside shell of, say plastic, that is expendable and a framework that keeps the insides safe. A shell structure or "unibody" has the shell and framework in one. like an egg shell. Egg shells are a unibody concept. The load bearing structure and the skin are the same piece. While they are excellent at resisting static forces, they respond poorly to dynamic pressure. Which is why a plane can fly at 300+ mph in the air, but breaks apart when you hit a building at 5 mph.

On top of that, your harddrive, the lifeblood of your data, is unprotected from falls, which happen to be the most common traumatic situation your computer will face, next to water. This is why business class PC have the option for a free fall sensing harddrive, accidental protection plans, and next day delivery of replacement parts.

You won't see 7 hour battery times except with a 9 cell battery in PCs. Apple uses slightly different battery technology to make their laptops thinner. These batteries are not common in the PC market. The availability of removable batteries has allowed PC makers to enjoy their current battery technology.

I hope that helps you out.

With your needs, you are clearly better served keeping your MBP. I say just sell the Adamo. From the start of the thread, there seems to be little preference for it. Which is FINE. Since it is your money and your computer, don't let anyone else make you settle for what you don't want. They may make you sound ridiculous or small, but they aren't the ones having to settle with buyer's remorse.

 

That is a joke right?

As much as HP is trying to imitate the Unibody MacBooks they really only look similar from a distance. Close up you can see the build quality on the HP is nowhere near a Unibody. Yes, I have seen them. Plus HP has really bad tech support and even worse you have to run Windows. I deal with Windows enough at work and I'm not about to use it when I don't have to.

The unibody frame is not just a shell. Take one apart and you will see that. The MBP uses an on-battery sensor that communicates with the system's management controller that can dynamically sense the needs of each lithium polymer cell and feed that info back to the charging circuitry. The result is slight variations in charging current designed to optimally charge each and every cell; reducing wasted charge cycles significantly. The batteries are a custom lithium polymer design. So they are more than just a little different. The hard drive is not unprotected, it does have fall sensing technology, and you can get it fixed quickly at any Apple store. I have yet to see a single large corporation have accidental protection plans or have the ability or interest to get parts replaced overnight. They just give you another laptop. It is quite easy to replace the battery in a MBP and they can be found with little trouble. Apple would prefer you didn't though. But you are extremely unlikely to ever need to given their very long life. The only time I would have a need to replace a PC laptop battery is while traveling, especially on a long flight, but it has been some time since you could carry batteries on an airplane. I expect the Apple battery type will be the standard before long.

 

Thats why they have these things called alloys...

 

I concede. I have bought Apple products in the past and enjoyed them, but its just their reality distorting marketing that makes me *think* I am enjoying using a sleek and sturdy laptop, when really it is falling apart right in front of me because it is made from a block of aluminum instead of parts.

And I remember before when we talked about how mac's don't keep their value- you were right about that too. I only *think* that I was able to sell my old machine and buy a new one at no cost, but really that is just part of the reality distortion field as well.

Now- I'll be the first to admit that the aluminum block design doesn't *really* matter as far as build quality (ie. you could have a poorly built machine crafted from an aluminum block). the single block design mostly gets rid of any screws or lines on the machine. it's an aesthetic thing more than anything else. however, there was also a pretty significant quality hike that occurred when apple switched to the block design, that wasn't directly related to the fact that they are using blocks to carve out their laptops, but moreso was related to the fact that they had a chance to start over with their manufacturing process.

 

You are trolling your way through this thread offering no substantive value to the conversation for what purpose? Do you expect people to welcome that? If you want to make ignorant comments about Macs to justify whatever it is you are trying to justify there are plenty of places for that.

 

Unibody laptops are not machined. Are you trying to convince us or yourself that you know what you are talking about? Because you don't. Not in any of your posts that I have seen on this thread. It is not easy at all which is why nobody else is doing it. HP's creaky wanna be MBP's are not even close. As far as technical knowledge I'll put mine up against yours any day because you are a poser.

 

I kind of agree with this.
Aluminium isn't known for its strength.Just its resistance to corrosion electrical and thermal conductivity not the material to make laptop casing out from.
I prefer magnesium alloy as it is much stronger.
Alloyed metal have always been stronger.

 

If you are an expert as you claim you would have refuted his argument instead of attacking personal profiles.
Please people stop personal attacks it isn't going anywhere.