Thermals on Macbook Pro Retina (longish post)

I am hoping to get some info on the MBP+R (maybe but unlikely replace my M4600 but at least make up my mind for my future laptop (M6700 or maybe a MBP+R).
While I am not an apple fan by far, I am a fan of great devices and I give credit were credit is due (hence why my favorite smartphone is an Iphone 4s).
However I don't like to purchase things on impulse and would prefer to get some good technical aspects of a computer before purchasing.


Now my one major factor on purchasing a laptop is in the internal designs of a laptop.
This is my opinion so far, and one of the reasons I haven't yet put the MBP-R to serious consideration.

Spoiler

I am looking at the ifixit break down of the MBP+R and so far I am not too happy. It appears as if the heatsink would be sufficient for a Ivy bridge quad core, and maybe a low to mid range GPU at best. They bought better quality fans (finally some decent fans), however even with the increase CFM, the aluminum fins are questionally small. Less surface area+high CFM=not as good as high surface area+lower high cfm. Layout of parts in a thermal sense seems to have improved drastically with the pure fact that no more mechanical hard drives dwell inside (all SSD, and far more temperature robust to drastic temperature changes). I am very happy about that, much better layout compared to previous MBP's and much better than a lot of consumer laptops.

Everything looks great on the laptop, but my main issue is with the heatsink assembly. How hot does the CPU get, does it throttle when the CPU and GPU are at a heavy load. (before you ask, yes I actually need to push the CPU/GPU to high loads often 100% CPU and 70%+ GPU at work or at play).

So far from what I saw from Mr. MM I saw the CPU hit 100c~ during 3dmark Vantage. Which doesn't exactly fill me with joy.

I am hoping to get some good information on thermals, and more than anything performance under some serious pressure.

Has anyone run Prime95 (Inplace large fft) alone with a CPU clock speed monitoring system as well as CPU temperatures?
Then also Prime95 with something like Furmark and measured CPU/GPU clock speeds as well as temperatures?
Finally CPU, Memory, and GPU at high stress (Doesn't have to be 100% but at least 70%+). Monitor clock speeds, and temperatures.

To help control variables, I will just mention the next biggest impacts to temperatures besides CPU/GPU/Memory.
General settings:LCD@ full brightness, adapter plugged in (duh).

The test would only need to be ran for 5-10 minutes, I recommend 1 1/2 foot clearance on all sides of the laptop on a non conductive nor flammable surface.

Disclaimer: I am not liable for anything that may happen to your laptop. I cannot vouch for Apple's engineers nor speak for their product so do this at YOUR OWN PERIL/OR RISK/OR EGO.

 

We are on the same boat, bro! The thermal is the only reason why I haven't bought Macbook Pro Retina yet.

From what I read, it behaves as horribly as other macbook pro in Windows system. It can easily hit 90 C under heavy usage (BF3 for example). However, it behaves fairly well in Mac OS. Around 85 C with Diablo 3.

We know that the area near the screen can be really hot, which is really really bad in my opinion because I knew that the normal working temperate of the screen should be under 45 C, but the temperature of the area under the screen can easily pass that.

About the internal part, I don't quite understand why Apple uses only 1 heatsink and 2 fans, which is the opposite to the other laptop(2 heatsinks and 1 fan). I thought it could be much better with one more heatsink.

 

Good cooling on this type of system would require at least 3 pipes, 2 different exhausts and two fans. (in other words 2 heatsinks using 2 pipes for GPU and 1 pipe for CPU the heatsink contact base could be shared with little issues).

90c isn't too bad, and nor is 85c. A bit hot yes (my dell M6500 stayed under 75c for CPU/GPU no matter what), but not too bad. I am looking to see what would happen if the CPU/GPU were to be used 100%/70%+ respectively. That should far surpass the thermal dissipation limits of the heatsink. Albeit the chassis would also act as a less efficient heatsink but won't really be the saving point.

Hmm 45c at the surface at top is dangerous to the LCD if confined to a small space for several hours however in a clear space I doubt it would be a problem.

I'm trying to avoid another MBP issue where many MBP owners reported cool temperatures, but for some reason those who put their systems to heavier use told different stories.

 

the amount of pipes and fanfares is a non issue. What you didnt see is that result that I posted, the gpu was clocked at 1035mhz core and 1720mhz vram, thats an absurd overclock over the already higher than standard clocks from the 650m, the RMBP clocks it at 900mhz core and 1254mhz vram.

And going from 3dmark11 we are seeing better performance than the 660m in g55

but yes I didnt like that cpu temp at all.

 

Wow you managed to clock it 35MHz higher than the W110ER's 1GHz?

I guess with any MBP, you must take off the bottom cover for gaming. Get the pentalobe screwdriver from iFixit.

 

I don't think you will get 100% from both cpu and gpu out of the mbp. Both parts are rated at 45W, yet the AC adapter is only 85W. So Apple will throttle your machine by BIOS. Those big adapter bricks for other laptops aren't there just to make Apple look pretty.

 

If the load is high enough, a MacBook Pro will also draw power from the battery. Apple's dedication to the slim 85W adapter is equal parts admirable and stupid. If Razer, a comparatively miniscule company, can develop a slim 120W adapter for its notebook, surely it's not outside the big A's purview to do the same.

 

pulling a bit from the battery is fine for the few times it needs to be done, keeping the power supply smaller. With the thermals, many machines will end up throttling down anyways after a time and have trouble pulling their max power.

 

anandtech review said the throttling problem seen in the 2011 mbps was fixed in the rMBP. I trust them.

 

Heatpipes and fanfares, unless physics have been broken will play a huge part in temperatures. I have yet to see a fairly large load on the laptop.
I don't really see 3dmark vantage utilizing a true 100% of the GPU/CPU, compared to say cinabench, ibt, or furmark. What I want to see is if the heatsink will become saturated over a short amount of time (5-10 minutes) or will it take longer?

Quite a nice overclock congratz.

Could anyone run tests with p95 and furmark and track the temperatures and clock speeds for both?
I am hoping to get numbers from this thread.

Pulling power from the battery is a new one to me. Personally it's counter intuitive, why introduce another large source of power to provide power to the laptop from the battery. (battery discharges, requires quite a bit of power from the adapter to recharge). Say that it is true and maybe the battery is put on hold for recharging, are you supposed to be limited to using the laptop for only 1-2 hours before the battery dies off? Come on.\
Anyways 85w should be sufficient to power the MBP+R given the fact they are using fairly efficient parts and lacking a part or two (mechanical hdd, optical drive using flash storage/ integrated ram.

 

I had a MBP-R. It is a lovely machine. If you see the screen, everything else is blurry. There is a problem as mentioned in this post. I sent mine back due to this reason and and quite happy to have the very cool running MBP 2012.

The MBP 2012 while rendering, runs cooler than my much older 1st gen MBP sitting idle in Bootcamp.

The MBP-R runs cooler and moderately acceptable in OSX, still quite high, though hit 104C in Windows 7 Pro X64.

It failed to install my 2 Autodesk Suites several times in Bootcamp. I tried to run it from the network, USB3 drive, USB2 stick, and HD. Very strange.

I had the 2.7 w.512HD and 16GB Mem. This also what I have in my Classic version MBP 2012, with the exception of the mem and HD, it's on it's way, it has a 128 GB SSD with 8 GB mem.

I used Cinebench, Modo, Maya 2013, 3ds Max 2013, C4D 12 and 13.

I really didn't do too much rendering in Maya or Max due to the microscopic gui even at 200% scaling, which makes some parts of the Windows experience on par with the Retina OSX, except you see it at 2880X1800.

The temps so far on the Classic MBP 2012 have not exceeded 65C, I am still testing. The cooler they run, the faster they run due to the thermal throttling the base clock.

My OWC adapter for the 2nd bay is coming, along with the 16GB mem, so I can install Bootcamp and see the results.

The CPU Cinebench was 7.04 and the GPU was about 35.9. No overclock. on the Vlassic, slightly faster then the MBP-R.

It is also the 1650x1080 Anti-glare screen.

I'll post more. I am a 3D Artist and need the fastest, this will follow with a Dell M6700, though I am glad to replace my aged MBP.

TheClassic MBP is a very cool running machine. I really did not want to send the MBP-R back, though I don't think it is ready for those who want to push it creatively, not speaking overclocks, that should only be for desktops.

For a surfer and occasional user even with Bootcamp, the MBP-R is the way to go, though that new XPS is looker too.

The OP was about high Therms, the Retina will be too hot for you I imagine.

 

You missed the point, if you take a look at the heatpipe, its shared between the gpu, cpu and the 2 fans. When you stress one of the components the other is essentially going to suffer from it. And that was a very heavy overclock 15% on core and 27% on vram.

The guy who did this, lowered the clocks for daily basis gaming. The temps are much lower on the cpu side after that, they are in the 70-85c range now, which I do find quite acceptable, since this is the only time that Im stressing both the cpu and the gpu

this is done on a GDDR5 650m not a DDR3 equipped one, the clocks are supposed to be much lower

 

Shared heatpipes are okay provided there are enough heat pipes (preferably 3-4), hence my point about the amount, I understood what you said.
Downclocking is not an option.

Mr. MM would you be willing to volunteer running P95/furmark together for maybe 5-10 minutes while monitoring the clock speeds, and thermals?

 

I would, if I had one. Im inclined to buy one next year, haswell + whatever gpu they put in there should provide solid performance for me, with less heat problems

 

The same thing is interesting for cMBP too.
Please owners of rMBP and cMBP, do this small test.

 

philosofix, That is weird that it will not install your 2 Autodesk Suites in bootcamp... I cant get several games working with my rMBP. (Age of empires online will not launch at all after it installs, and Everquest 2 spins out of control when you left click.)

Hoping its driver related and the next version of bootcamp fixes it!

 

I had a late 2009 MBP both the CPU and GPU would regularly hit over 90c, even surffing the web would see temps over 70 for both.

 

I did manage to get the Suites to install on the Classic MBP.

One problem for both is the Suites are deeply embedded in folders, though one of the methods worked for the Classic.

The Retina is a dream screen and one day all will be ironed out.

The release of ML may fix all or most of what ails it, with the exception of software, browsers, etc, being ported to reap the Retina rewards.

One thing I find strange is noone really has said too much about the Classic.

I have the 2.7 with 2 SSD's it really does scream. Not the best for 3D (rendering anyway), but for most all else it's really good. Most of all, unlike many before it, including the old MBP to my left, frying eggs, it really is the coolest, even more so than the Retina. Either way you can't go go wrong.

 

First, let's wait and see if there's going to be a 100% software support. Plus, I'm not too happy about the glossy finish and no wide gamut. As is, the panel looks exactly as my M18x screen. Same level of reflections (without the Edge to Edge glass) + 100% sRGB. The only bonus is the higher res, which is too much for my eyes anyway. It's good for images and supported games though, no denying, but I'd rather have more colors @ FHD.