Ultraportable MacBooks are rumored to be aluminum clad, 50% lighter and "strikingly slimmer" to the existing 15" MacBook Pros.

Yeah, I know. I just meant to explain why it was still priced in between the iBook and the larger PowerBook G4, as opposed to being even more expensive (i.e. like the Sony Vaio TZ vs. SZ).

I am assuming that this rumored ultraportable will be more than what the 12" PBG4 was (i.e. it won't just be a fancier version of the MacBook).

-Zadillo

 

I actually would really like a fancier version of the MB...Not that a true ultraportable would be bad, its just that the 12" PBG4 was one of my favorite notebooks, and I'm still waiting for its successor, since it has the potential to be absolutely perfect.

 

It won't be $1599. Too close to the Black MacBook.

Ok, the 12" PB was a few hundred cheaper than the cheaper 15" PB, but I think the ultraportable will come in at $1999.

 

Possibly. It all depends I guess.

I think you're probably right, I could see it coming in at anywhere from $1799-1999.

The other possibility I think though is that they do price it around $1599 or $1699, and finally do away with the $1499 black macbook configuration, lowering the price of the black macbook to $1299 and offering the same config in white and black.

Of course, the whole white/black MacBook thing might become irrelevant anyway, as so many other signs point to the end of the polycarbonate MacBooks (with Apple moving to get rid of plastic from all the other products that used it like the iPod, the iMac, etc.).

 

They need to drop the whole MacBook line down about $250 each.

 

And have the entry level be what, $750? Thats too low for Apple, seriously.

What needs to be done is drop the price of the BlacBook down by a hundred dollars at least, or maybe even equalize the price between the Black and White MBs.

 

I think that the base Macbook will drop to $999.99 or $949.99, with the other two models following suit, and the Ultraportable starting at $1499 or $1599.

 

It's possible that the Macbooks will get aluminum cases. They might even be this rumored ultraportable.

 

Yeah, honestly, so much of this is still up in the air that it's hard to even say what the future product line looks like.

Is this upcoming laptop a new product (i.e. a true ultraportable, a third option in addition to the MacBook and MacBook Pro) or will it be the replacement for the MacBook? If it is truly a third Apple laptop, what will it mean for the inevitable updating/replacement of the MacBook?

We'll just have to weight and see I guess. Hopefully it will become clearer next month at Macworld.

 

Well, the thing with the aluminum MBs is then there won't really be any distinguishing factors between the MB and the MBP. That would...not be good, and very uncharacteristic of the marketing giant that Apple is.

 

Right. Which would mean that the overdue update for the MacBook Pro design (which is still essentially the same PowerBook G4 design that has been in use for a number of years now) would probably be coming soon too.

One thing I recall Apple saying during the Intel transition; they said that it was a conscious decision on their part to specifically NOT radically update the external chassis for any of the products, because they wanted to stress the idea that even though they were switching to Intel on the inside, these were still Macs, and that the external design was important in reinforcing this concept.

But the thing is, the Intel transition was completed successfully, and pretty much everyone has become comfortable with the Intel transition, so Apple now does have the freedom to go ahead and finally introduce more radically new chassis designs (i.e. something beyond the more subtle changes they've made, such as the switch to aluminum for the iMac line).

So I think the materials will be updated in the MacBook; Apple's switch to aluminum for the iPods, iMacs, etc. indicates that it's only a matter of time before they finally remove the white (and black) plastic from their product line.

And in doing so, it will open the door for the more radical MacBook Pro update; especially if you look at the current MBP design as a refinement on the original titanium PowerBook G4 design, you could say that Apple has been using the same essential laptop design for something like 6 or 7 years now.

 

Ok, saying that its the old PB Ti design is pushing it a bit. I will say that they have been using the same design for the professional line of notebooks for around 2003 (when the aluminum PB was introduced), so nearly 5 years. But if they are moving from Aluminum, what will they go to? Solid gold?

But realistically, what will they go to? Carbon fiber? I see that they are transitioning the consumer products to aluminum, but thats like putting 450bhp in your entry level car - you have almost nowhere to go with your higher end models!

 

If we include the 9to5 rumor with this one, and we assume the Macbook is being updated, then it will still be quite different. The Macbook would retain the same style keys, which means no backlit keyboard, and there's no way Apple can fit dedicated graphics in a case that thin. Maybe they'll eventually go with magnesium for the Macbooks?

I don't think the Macbook is going to get redesigned, but it's a possibility.

 

I realize its pushing it a bit, but generally speaking, the aluminum PowerBook G4 design from 2003 was more of a refinement of the previous titanium PowerBook G4 design. I mean, essentially, the main things it introduced were smoother edges, and a more uniform look (removing the white bands of the titanium PBG4 design).

The main point is, the Titanium PowerBook G4 design WAS a radical design, compared to the previous PowerBook designs. Completely new material concept, radically thinner at 1" thick, etc.

By comparison, the aluminum PowerBook G4 chassis was more of a refinement/evolution of the previous chassis.

What I'm arguing is that Apple is now more than overdue for a more radical chassis redesign, more along the lines of how big the original PowerBook G4 design was.

Now, what is that going to be? Who knows..... if I could guess, I'd probably be a designer at Apple right now....

Carbon fibre would seem to be a logical material to use, although for all I know, Apple might have something more exotic in mind (not to say that carbon fibre isn't still relatively exotic, but it wouldn't be a headturner, really).

I think one thing though is that Apple might have different ideas in mind about using materials to be one of the main distinguishing factors; ever since the PowerBook G4 and the Power Mac G5, Apple has uses the aluminum vs. plastic concept to distinguish between the pro and consumer lines; it's possible they will continue this, and move the pro line to something radically different.

Who knows though; will just have to wait and see at this point.

-Zadillo

 

There has not been a $999 Macbook/iBook for a while. The entry is $1099 with integrated graphics, ho-hum 1200x800 screen and no DVD-R.

There are a lot of entry level PC laptops in the $550 to $1000 range.

The Macbook is pretty much overpriced, even with draft n, gigE and bluetooth.

 

I was excited to see them add glass to the iMac. Glass can be a very strong (think of watches), stylish material.

 

Perhaps, although Apple could clearly make a cheaper MacBook if they wanted to if they stuck in one of those 1.5GHz Pentium Dual Core CPU's you see in those $600 notebooks.

-Zadillo

 

When I hear glass, I think iPhone and iPod Touch screens .

 

A glass touchpad/screen would be awesome, but that's pretty unrealistic. An illuminated touchpad is a possibility. Didn't Apple file a patent for one a while ago?

 

I wouldn't be so sure. A lot of the multitouch stuff that Apple has been doing seemingly would have applications beyond just the iPhone and iPod Touch.

 

I wonder if the Macbooks will be changed to aluminum, but be spray painted or stained white and/or black? That would certainly look cool, and keep the whitebook and blackbook themes going.

 

Painting or dyeing wouldn't be necessary; the aluminum can be done in a variety of colors (this is what Apple does for the iPod Nano and iPod Classic). A black aluminum MacBook would essentially be similar to the black iPod Nano or black iPod Classic.

There probably wouldn't be a white one though, but silver instead (Apple has almost completely removed white from their product line, with the white MacBook being the holdout).

EDIT: Actually, I think I might be wrong about that; just reading about anodizing aluminum, and they do say that part of the point of anodizing aluminum is to allow it to be dyed. So I guess the different colored aluminum iPods, etc. are dyed.

-Zadillo

 

More on dyeing anodized aluminum, if anyone is curious:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodising#Dyeing

 

Or for $800 to $1000 they could offer the 1.83 to 2Ghz chips.

They'll never go to $600, hell, look at the Mac Mini, and they'll prolly never go under $1000, but it's nice to think about.

I really think that with Vista being so underwhelming (I have used it since it's release, it's not the worst, but it's not a real improvement either) that this is a great opportunity to do what they failed to do in the early 80's.

Imagine an Apple with 25% market share. I know that's not their thing, they love their margins, but... if there was ever another chance to do it, this is that chance...

 

Maybe, although I don't know that Apple actually has the capability to support the kind of production/etc. that would be required for 25% marketshare (especially global, but even at just the US level).

Honestly though, I'm not really sure what difference it would ultimately make, if their marketshare was 5% or 10% or 25%. I don't think it would fundamentally change their approach to making computers or anything else. I think they'd still have the same fundamental approach; it's more just a matter of what percentage of the market buys into what they are selling.

I think the thing is, there's a much larger share of the market that wants to buy those $500-600 PC's and run Windows, and even if Apple make a $600 cheapo MacBook or something, I don't know that it would have such a huge impact.

-Zadillo

 

Oh, I think its $999 with the education discount...my bad. That was the biggest thing (imo) in the move to C2D for the MacBooks - it gave students a sub-$1000 mac portable once more, since the original CD MacBook started at $1049 - not much of a difference, sure, but the $1k barrier is a pretty important one.

Would glass not be too heavy for a portable? I understand why they used it on the iMac (though I'm not pleased - desktops should NEVER have glossy screens), but it just seems like glass would be way too heavy for a notebook. Maybe if they did a multitouch tablet or something, but not on a standard notebook.

 

That's interesting, I never noticed that the base model MacBook was back to $999. That is one thing, the $999 price point was an important one for the iBook (and a price that was available to everyone, even without the educational discount).

Yeah, I wouldn't expect to see glass used on notebooks any time soon; I'd only expect to see something like it as part of an iPhone-like multitouch notebook interface.

 

For a radically different material kevlar for some reason sprung to mind, which I suppose could be used in some type of composite. A kevlar MBP would probably give the ToughBooks some nice competition.

Anyways, the problem with moving away from Aluminum would be that the entire cooling model will likely need to be changed since I believe the MBP relies on the entire aluminum body to dissipate height allowing it to be thin and light. I'm not sure a material like carbon fibre will have the same thermal conduction properties.

 

Yeah. Well, it will be interesting to finally see what they have been cooking up.

I think they've certainly had years to think about new ways to handle some of the cooling issues/etc. (and let's face it, Aluminum isn't perfect; the big weakness I think of it is that while the Aluminum itself does a good job of conducting heat, the downside to that is that the aluminum itself gets very hot).

 

I'm actually having problems thinking of anything other than CF, which is essentially one of the lightest and strongest materials for a notebook. They've done the plastic thing, the Ti thing, the Al thing already....CF is a logical next step; Magnesium alloy is another thing, but thats too common...CF would be the really high end way to do things. I suppose they could leave it as Al, and risk making the MB nearly as good as the MBP, but I don't think (or I hope) that they aren't that stupid.

 

Well, again, if they do continue using Aluminum for both the consumer and pro lines, I think it just means they would find other ways to differentiate the products.

I don't think Apple is necessarily seeing the materials themselves as necessarily the "differentiating" factor any more.

It might then be more about what those materials are used for, or other features.

Honestly, that wouldn't be such a bad thing. I mean, really, it is kind of silly to think that plastic vs. aluminum should be one of the main things that makes the MBP "better".

 

It is though - its much lighter and feels like its better quality. Same thing with the new aluminum iPods - they feel much more solid than before.

 

Right. That's the thing though, I think that Apple might be planning on moving beyond the idea that that better feeling and lighter weight should be a "pro" feature; in fact, when Jobs unveiled the aluminum iMacs he basically said as much. That they didn't think that this material should be limited to their pro line, and that the consumer models should have it too.

I don't think that's necessarily "stupid"; again, I think it just means that the future of the MacBook Pro will be defined by more than just the material it is made out of (and frankly, even if the MacBook was made out of aluminum now as well, there would still be plenty of differences between it and the MBP; the case material just wouldn't be one of them).

-Zadillo

 

Differences would only be screen size, LED backlight, dedicated GPU, and keyboard. Everything else would be essentially the same, would it not? Heck, at that point, the MB would weigh like 4.5lbs or less, so there actually would be a significant weight penalty by moving up to the pro line, unlike now, where the two are essentially the same weight and the Pro is a much better choice for that reason alone.

 

I think having a dedicated GPU is already a pretty large differentiating factor between the MB and MBP. Other things like an Express Card slot for expansion and Firewire 800 also point to the MBP being higher-end. Personally, as soon as Apple gets Blu-ray combo drives and/or burners on the MBP, I think that will pretty much point the MBP to it's targeted professional market. Besides cost, I would guess the 15.4" MBP using super-slim optical drives instead of the more usual slim size in order to accommodate the keyboard is probably hampering them.

 

Well, that would be assuming that the MacBook Pro is not updated in any way. I am making an assumption that the MacBook Pro itself is going to see some significant overhauling once the MacBook gets updated.

LED-backlight should not continue to be a differentiating factor either, as Apple has already said they are planning to eventually move to LED-backlighting across their entire product line.

We're definitely getting into the realm where speculation makes this kind of discussion almost impossible, because so many hypotheticals are at play.

At this point, there are only a handful of known quantities, or at least reasonably likely things that will occur:

1) The MacBook is going to switch from polycarbonate to aluminum. There are just too many signs that point to this. Aside from the rumors, the abandonment of plastic from the rest of Apple's product line, and the iMac being introduced with aluminum because Apple came right out and said they thought that this material belonged in their consumer products too and shouldn't be limited to the pro line.

2) The MacBook Pro is going to have a major revision, not just more continuing evolutionary changes while retaining the same basic chassis and feature design that will have been in use for 5 years in 2008.

Beyond that, it's all guesswork.

-Zadillo

 

I think with the iMac, Apple has re-positioned its direction, and targeted it for prosumers now; both the consumer market as well as the professional market. So if the MacBook turns aluminum, I assume it will be the same.

Of course, why the Mac Mini isn't polycarbonate is rather awkward. I guess Apple didn't want it to look exactly like the Airport Extreme Base Station .

 

Ah, I see. I wasn't sure if the aluminum could be made in those colors or had to be painted. Thanks for clearing that up .

 

Well aluminum would be great. I just dont want to see them raise the price. That would suck cause i want to buy one in a month from now and right now with my discount get it for $999. You think they will do this? I mean take away features or raise the price.

 

i agree, i have never seen anyone ask for the macpro, not even once in computer stores. imo it is overpriced. Maybe thats why they are starting to change strategies.

 

The Mac Pro sells just fine; it's hardly overpriced; it just happens to use very high end CPU's, memory, etc. for the pro market that needs that kind of performance. The fact that you've never seen anyone ask for it even in computer stores I think is more a reflection on the fact that the kinds of places buying and purchasing Mac Pros aren't going to the typical computer store to purchase them.

They aren't really changing any strategies; the materials change in the iMac doesn't fundamentally change what it is or who it is targeted at. As Apple explained, they said that they are simply trying to bring some of those previously "pro" materials and looks to the consumer market as well.

-Zadillo

 

It's unlikely they would take away features or dramatically raise the price - historically speaking, Apple has had certain general price points that they stick to.

The main difference with Apple is usually that they keep the same price for a product during its lifespan and introduce feature or spec updates within its lifespan, rather than just dropping prices.

So for example, from the PowerBook G4 to the MacBook Pro, Apple has kept their core pricing almost identical ($1999 and $2499 price points), while adding features or improving specs (or entire platform changes). Within the MacBook Pro, we've seen them add or change specs (LED-backlit screens as an example of an addition, the 8600M GT as an example of a change) while keeping the same $1999 and $2499 price points, as opposed to raising them to correspond with a feature update or change.

 

So the MB could be going aluminum with the announcement at Macworld 08? But MB just got updated in November. So will the switch to aluminum come possibly during the May update?

 

Don't know when it will come; I'd actually probably guess not at Macworld in January, since the focus might be more on this new ultraportable laptop, not updates to the MacBook or MBP.

Considering that Apple would consider the current MacBook update from November to still be relatively minor (as to the end user at least, the most significant thing really would be somewhat better integrated graphics), a more significant update could happen at any time though.

-Zadillo

 

Yeah, I don't expect any MacBook update in early 2008. It was just updated.

 

Well thats okay. I mean the Macbook looks great to me anyway. Still a damn good machine. Besides plastic doesnt really bother me.

 

I don't know if u guys read this, but you must read it then if possible somebody tell me, if its really possible for that ultraportable to cost just $1500 including flash memory

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/12/06/apple_sub_notebook_to_retail_for_1500_3g_iphone_by_june_report.html

 

Anything's possible.

-Zadillo

 

I think if they did it, then they will get a real big amount of PC Switchers including me

Though it will be 25% more expensive in Sweden (taxes), but it will still be cheaper, slimmer, sexier and maybe a lot more than the already sexy Sony TZ.

 

What Apple needs is a 19" macbook pro in black with a 8800GS!