Vista + MacBookPro - what to blame?

I have been running Vista on my MacBook Pro for about a year and I must say it has been a very painful experiene, with lots of problems which seem related to drivers etc. and based on discussions in different forums, I seem to be far from the only one. Now, as I am considering to buy a new laptop, I am thinking about what to blame here, is it so that Vista just sucks no matter of what hardware it runs on, or that the combination Mac + Windows just isn't there yet? As I work 99% in windows, I might consider not getting a Mac at all for the next laptop, but at the same time, I am an Apple lover and the MacBook Pro just kick everyone elses but right now.

/pJ

 

Why would you install Vista over XP? It's the worst OS out there right now...

I installed XP, and have never had any problems with it. I recommend you do the same before jumping to a new laptop. Losing OS X is a big down if you decide to abandon Apple.

 

I have a macbook and i have dual booted with vista......and have no driver problem whatsoever

do u have the latest version of bootcamp?

 

Yes, couldn't agree more, all my other computers have been downgraded to XP.

Well, I do want to hang on to OS X, but the truth is that it is very seldom I use it, mainly because I do a lot of software development that requires Windows and don't really feel like rebooting at home just to do some emailing and browsing. However, considering the current state of Vista, it's getting more and more tempting every day.

/pJ

 

Yes, I have, but there are just to many problems with display, bluetooth etc to be igonred, and as it has been confirmed by so many others, it can't be all my fault. Can you for example have a USB device plugged in (like a mouse), close the lid and put the MBP to standby, unplugg the USB device and they try to resume the MBP again? For me, this doesnt work 1 out of 4 times. Sometimes even removing the power during standby may cause a forced reboot (holding the powerbutton).

/pJ

 

I've done a bit of Windows software development a "while ago". If I remember correctly, there is some dependency on the OS you do the development. For instance, if you are developing for XP on a Vista box, if it's anything like it was back when I was doing development, it requires some precautions to keep Vista-specific code from being linked in.

Is that the reason you want to develop on Vista? Have you considered parallels or vmware? Keeping Windows in a bottle is the best way to safeguard against undesirable behavior. You can install parallels or vmware and use the same partition you use for bootcamp, only there is no rebooting involved.

There are users reporting Vista problems and users reporting no problems. Perhaps it would be good for you to compare notes with Kaushal in great detail so you can see what the differences are between your two setups. I've never installed windows on my mac, but I have heard you are supposed to let OSX burn a driver disk for you to use during windows install. Did you do that or are you letting windows take it's best (or worst) guess about your hardware? Failure to stand by is a red flag for motherboard chipset driver issues. USB anomalies is a red flag for the same thing. I remember moving a windows disk to a different box and trying to boot and it was a holy mess until about the third pass through plug and play. Sometimes it was the 15th pass through plug and play before windows would finally get the motherboard chipset sorted out and then the rest would fall into place. I remember holding on to all those motherboard cd's back when I built my own systems because there were times windows was so impaired by it's inability to recognize the chipset, it couldn't even get to the internet to look for drivers.

This is one thing I like about Linux. It's plug and play appears to go a lot smoother, but what I think is the underlying difference is the performance is less dependent on wringing every last bit of performance out of the hardware so there is a lot more tolerance / less dependence on chipset related issues. I think this is the reason there has been some success in the "hackintosh" software. The *nix's of the world aren't trying to use each and every little mobo chipset feature just to appear snappy. (Yes, it's a dig against bloat).

 

Actually, I do mostly webbdevelopment these days, so the actuall OS isnt all that important, but it has to be windows (.NET). I did try Parallel and VMWare, but since I run Windows like 99% of the time, that really didnt seem like the best solution and it takes some performane away also. Of corse, there is also the matter with keyboard mapping, I mean, how can apple not themselves provide any driver that can map the @ key so I dont have to use a third party plugin for it.

/pJ

 

If you really aren't using OSX, it's probably time to take a step back. Take a look at any of the fine hardware options available on the Windows side. Lenovo is at the top of my list. For the price of a Macbook Pro, you can have a very good Lenovo machine or a high-end Dell.

@ key? really? Sounds like some sort of prank to me.

I took my sweet time moving over from Windows. It took quite a bit of thought to make sure I could live without what I used on the Windows side. For this reason, I have no windows on any of my macs and I am absolutely delighted with my user experience to date.

I have Crossover, but that's about it. I'm sure .net wouldn't work with Crossover. I wanted to make a "clean break". While there are a handful of programs I miss, I can get absolutely everything done on my Macbook without any windows software. For me, Crossover is more for tinkering.

It sounds like you appreciate the look and feel of OS X but you are so heavily invested in Windows, now might not be the time for you to make your "clean break". I had my Mac Mini for about 3 years before going "all in". I used to look forward to using the Mini and always always always got what I needed done in fewer clicks, keystrokes and decisions than the Windows equivalent. Another thing I did was I used VNC on my Dell to talk to my Mini downstairs. There was no reboot or walk to a different room required. When my Dell was ready to give up the ghost, I knew the time had come for the switch to a Macbook and I went for it.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using what you need when you need it. Put that MBP to the side and leave only OSX on it and get yourself a windows box without driver issues.

I would recommend XP over Vista for a development machine. In fact, XP over Vista might just cure the @ key thing you are experiencing on your MBP and you could still get along with one machine. BTW, XP in Parallels is a LOT faster than Vista in Parallels (from what I've heard).

 

Actually, price is of no concern at all here, and I really dont care about OS X as I almost never use it. But when you compare the latest MBPs with the best offerings from manufacturers like Dell, HP etc. you will find that a fully loaded MBP is hard to beat when it comes to performance, weight, look and lots of other stuff, and it also provides the option of getting out of the Windows hell, at least for a while, as a bonus. What I am really looking for is the best Windowslaptop out there, and that might just be a MBP, if only a few things were sorted out, like Apples insane refusal to put in a right klick button on the tochpad (isnt the button big enough to divide it in 2?).

/pJ

 

id recommend a simple dell, or something else then.

if your not gonna use OSX, try something else out. But once you switch back, OSX cant be used on a PC. so that 1% of the time you do use it, your gonna miss like its 99%

to date, ive had ZERO driver issue with 4 laptop Macs, and Vista/XP.

If i wasnt interested in OSX, you can sure as hell bet id buy something else besides an apple.

 

Well, simple really isnt me, I want the best I can get. There seem to be only 3 serious options right now, the HP 8710w, the Dell M6300 and the MacBook Pro, all with maximum available specs. This as I require a professional 17" WUXGA laptop (ie no consumer stuff that will break when moved).

/pJ

 

Vista is obviously your problem. Move to XP as roK has suggested. And actually try using parallels or VM Ware Fusion with Vista before moving to XP to see if those issues still occur when Windows is being run in a virtual environment.

 

WUXGA does limit your choices for sure. that said, i saw the 17" MBP with the high res screen today. it put my baseline MBP to shame.

 

I agree on a right-click.... *sigh* I mean two fingers on a touch pad and clicking isn't overly terrible... But yeah..... no further comment hehe

 

i prefer the apple setup of the mouse compared to a pc. its second nature after any amount of time to use two fingers for it now.

 

Are you running 64-bit Vista by chance?

Either way, I would agree with the others. Find yourself a nice Windows notebook. You are only asking for problems if you by a Mac to exclusively use Windows.

 

yea, i dont really understand why some one would want to get a mac to run windows most of the time, macs are nice, but what makes them even nicer is the added bonus of os x.

 

I actually tried to install Windows XP last night, but what was possible with BootCamp 1.4 just doesn't seem to work at all in BootCamp 2.0 (as described by numerous threads on the internet, search for "hal.dll") so I had to install Vista again. The irony of this is that although that has proven that Windows on a Mac is actually even worse than Windows on a PC, it also increase the demand for a Mac to be able to use OS X at least sometimes to get away from the Windows hell. So now I am kind of lost again :-(

/pJ

 

Start using OS X and ditch Windows altogether.

 

improwise, do you have SP1 for Vista? I believe it improves some issues around hibernation (among other things)... and it seems better for me, in any case. (I don't have a Mac though....)

 

Well, that would mean ditch my job also and .NET, and I am not sure I would want that. What makes me sad is that there seem to be very little missing that would make the MBP one of the best Windows laptops out there also, and offer the possibility to run OS X.

/pJ

 

This wasn't your problem, was it?

Perhaps after getting XP installed, something in boot.ini gets munged and windows oinks (incorrectly) about hal.dll when it's not the problem at all?

 

improvise: i understand your concern. You want the best hardware and the ability to run windows. But if you look at all the competition including dell, hp, and ibm....the MBP still seems like the best piece of hardware in terms of size, battery, performance, graphics, screen etc. Sure you can get another laptop with similar specs for cheaper but it wont be 1" thin and wont have 5+ hr battery life without attaching a huge battery.

I'd suggest trying bootcamp 2.0 with xp as most people say it works great. If you need to do development in Vista, consider parallels or vmware. The only driver issue i've heard of is that apple's windows drivers dont properly support the power saving functions of the current cpus properly so you wont get the best battery life but you are most likely plugged in when doing development anyway.

 

Yes it was, but none of the solutions offered on the Net seemed to work, and considering that Windows is bad enough on it's own, further increasing the risk by combining it with some undocumented quick fixes doesn't really seem all that attractive.

/pJ

 

You are spot on here, current MBPs are very hard to beat, they just offer the best performance/weight/looks/battery/screen ratio out there now. Only thing that can compete is the HP8710w and the Dell M6300 as far as I know, with perhaps the new Asus M70 as a runner up. I actually think that XP might have worked, if it hadn't been becuase of the fact that I had serveral windows partitions, and one of the containing data, so I couldnt do a full repartitioning all over. Vista however seemed to manage this, but Vista has support for EFI these days in case you missed it.

/pJ