Windows 7 - New Macbook Air - Battery?

Hey guys,

I'm due for a laptop upgrade and I want something light, fast-ish and very thin. So I was looking at the Samsung 9 Series, as it's the only Windows laptop that really appeals to me in that ultraportable class.

Then a friend tells me "Dude, why don't you just put Windows on a 13 inch Macbook Air? You'll save money." Says I, "As if Macs can run Windows. And everybody knows Macs are expensive as all hell."

Well, after doing my research, it turns out a) you can put Windows on a Mac fairly successfully and b) a MacBook Air is ONE THOUSAND AUSTRALIAN DOLLARS cheaper than the equivalent Samsung 9 Series!!!

That is a fairly massive incentive as I'm a student. The 9 series is hugely overpriced, and even more so in my country, whereas the Mac seems to be very reasonable for what you actually get.

So by all accounts the MacBook series runs windows 7 very well, but I can't find any reliable stats as to how battery life on the MBA with Windows goes. Some reports say it's decreased by 30%, others say 20%, some say it's roughly equal at around 7 hours. For all you MBA owners who've tried Windows, what's your experience been like?

[Disclaimer: I'm planning to use Windows as my primary OS and would be looking towards uninstalling OSX entirely. I know, I know, "Why buy a Mac then?!" You know why. Apple make really good hardware, and I'm so tied to Windows software that I couldn't abandon it.]

 

It's not as cut and dry as you think. Allow me to run through the experience you'll get running Windows on a Mac.

1) The keyboard layout is a Mac keyboard. No Print Screen, No Page UP/Down, No Windows Key or other various Windows-type keys. Re-mapping is nice but it's still a Mac keyboard at the end of the day. If you're gonna run Windows full-time then why have a wrong keyboard?

2) You WILL get decreased battery life. For example, most of the Macbooks get 7-8 hours battery life in OS X. In Windows you may get around 4+ hours which may not sound bad but why pay for a machine that's rated at 7-8 hours but then run an OS that will only get half of that?

3) It's gets hotter under Windows.

4)Trackpad isn't nearly as good under Windows. At times you'll get erratic behavior and other than the scrolling and taps the gestures in OS X aren't available in Windows. Again, you're paying more for something that offers less in Windows.

5)Installing Windows requires an external optical drive.

6) Firmware updates can only be done in OS X

7) Apple's drivers are subpar for Windows. Many drivers are proprietary for the screen, keyboard, trackpad, fan control and power management.

8) No support from Apple. You may not need Apple's help with Windows when the computer acts quirky but why spend the money and get no support?

Just to be clear, I had a Macbook Air so I know the experience of running Windows on a Mac. It's always been and will always be just a second option if you need to run specific Windows-only software. It's not meant to run it full-time.

For the Samsung 9 to be $1000 Aussie dollars more make sure you fully compare specs. Hate to use the car example, but a Ferrari of any kind is thousands more expensive than my Honda without doing a fair comparison.

Buy what you want to buy, do what you want to do with your own computer but if you want to spend money on a computer and install your own separate OS on it when it's made and tailored to be integrated with it's own OS then at the end of the day it's a waste. You're only buying only for the "prettiness" and not the full experience.

If you want "pretty" with decent build quality and thin without any OS operation hassles, you can check out the Sony Vaio series of computers. Dell's new XPS line looks promising as well. These are physical Windows machines, a Mac is not.

On a side note: I find your last line hard to believe. The software playing field has leveled out quite a bit between OS X and Windows. Aside from games there's not much else you can't do in OS X that you can do in Windows.

 

9) Remote doesn't work to change music/video in Windows when iTunes is in the background

 

The price difference is closer to $500 than $1000. The Samsung can be had at a discount from Harvey Norman. The RRP is $2498 but people on the whirlpool forum have gotten them for around $2200. For that price you get 4GB RAM and 128GB SSD. An equivalently configured MBP 13 is $1749.

Like you, I considered the Samsung in my recent ultraportable search. I have a thread about it here. I ended up buying a MBA 11 and I'm very happy with it. It can be used as a Windows only machine, but if you go that way I would still keep a small OS X partition for contingencies.

I've been splitting my time between OS X and Windows 7, and so far I've seen a relatively small difference in battery life and no difference in heat. Battery life is highly dependent on usage. For really light use, I've seen >6 hours in Windows and 7 in OS X. More typically, I'm getting about 5 hours in Windows and 6 in OS X. I use Firefox with the Flashblock add-on, which makes a big difference in battery life when web surfing. If you watch a lot of Flash video such as You Tube or Hulu, the battery will drain fast in either OS.

The trackpad is definitely better in OS X, but it's certainly usable in Windows and nicer than many Windows laptops. Two finger scrolling works great. Two finger clicking (right click) takes a little practice because the timing is more sensitive in Windows, but it works. Likewise, tapping is more sensitive in Windows and I occasionally make an inadvertent left click when it's enabled, which is something I've encountered with other laptops too.

I can't complain about the keyboard since I got the MBA 11. I worked around the loss of a forward-delete key by mapping that to the F12 (Eject) key. And the other alternatives I looked at in the 11" size range didn't have dedicated Home, End, PgUp, PgDn keys anyway. It would be a bigger sacrifice in the 13" range.

 

the single most annoying thing with bootcamp is the fact that if you want to use firegestures in firefox by holding down the right-mouse button, the context menu pops up immediately and blocks your gesture

/rant

 

One point that was brought up but should be noted again are the hardware differences between the Samsung 9 and MBA. The MBA is running a much older series of processors that Intel dropped quite a bit of time ago. The Samsung runs newer Sandy Bridge Core i processors while relying solely on Intel integrated graphics. The graphics are a step down from the MBA (though not be much) while the processor is a large step up. Windows is going to run smoother on the Samsung simply because of the newer hardware and better Windows driver support.

All-in-all, there is one rule of thumb to follow no matter what type of budget you are looking at: only buy a Mac if you want to run Mac OS X. The hardware design aspect isn't enough to outweigh the downfalls of running Windows as the primary OS on a Mac. There are a few people on these boards who would disagree with that statement as they purchased Macs to specifically run Windows. One person even altered their keyboard to match the typical Windows outline. To me (and many, many, many others), that entirely defeats the purpose of spending more to buy Apple hardware. Windows is an inferior experience on Macs and is really only a feature that is used when you need to run a specific Windows PC only program. Other than that, the high cost of Macs cannot really be justified without pairing them with Apple's software.

 

In any case, don't buy before the 6th. Apple might (probably not, but wise to wait anyway) update the MBA, and will certainly be releasing OSX Lion.

 

Thanks for the input guys. The price comparison was not between Australian retail prices, but my best case scenarios - I've got a friend in the States who can get me a refurb MBA 13 with 4gig of RAM, shipped to Australia, for 1200AUD. As you say, the cheapest people have managed to get the Samsung 9 Series on Whirlpool has been about 2200, and there isn't as large a price difference between international sellers as there is with Apple. So best case scenario, a similar 9 series would be 800 more for me, but in all probability the differential would be closer to a grand.

I appreciate all the responses, and just to clarify: I'm coming from a Dell XPS M1330. I'm never going to buy Dell again because of the heat issues, but I'm relatively happy with its performance, even though it's four years old. So basically what I'm looking for is that, but smaller - so I know for a lot of you the i5 is a big difference maker over the C2D, but the C2D on my Dell goes okay, and I'd be getting a SSD and double the amount of RAM I currently have.

But there seems to be the same division between your responses as there have been in the articles I've read concerning Windows on the MBA. Some say it is buggy, hot, slow and the trackpad doesn't work, others say that it works great and there are no real problems. I know you're all giving your experience, but there seems to be some divergence

 

3 out of 4 people so far have mentioned reasons why buying a MBA to run as a Windows only machine isn't a good idea. I don't see an even division here.

 

i think the issue is this:

1) coming from windows lappy straight to boot camp

2) coming from windows lappy, using OS X, and then going to bootcamp

if you fall under #1, you most likely won't know what people are complaining about - its pretty similiar to other windows lappies. But for #2 people (like me), it is like ing hell.

i'll tell you straight up. WINDOWs works fine (except for that right-click issue i mentioned already) - it is the actual physical laptop controls that are subpar in bootcamp.

oh, and battery life. pay attention to reviews that are talking about 15"+ macbooks. 13" macbooks battery penalty is less severe than the 15"+ ones that have discrete graphics. still, trust me, there IS a penalty with bootcamp.

EDIT:

summary:

people who say that bootcamp macbooks aren't usable are talking out of their - that isn't in doubt. What is in doubt is whether or not it is worth it to you. don't be a sheep - listen carefully to people who aren't fanbois.

what they ARE right about is that the hardware experience is superior in OS X ; the software side is your own call.

 

Right click might be an issue but as far as Home, End, Page up and Page down, I use Autohotkey to remap keys and assume it would be applicable under boot camp.

 

If you narrow it down to Windows users who have actual experience with the current gen MBA and Boot Camp 3.2, there's less divergence. I searched all over the web a few weeks ago and saw a variety of responses. The people who owned the current MBA models and were using the latest Boot Camp didn't seem to have the major battery life issues that were seen in the past, mainly noted by MBP owners. That gave me some confidence.

Also, in my case, it would not have been a big problem if Windows didn't run well on the MBA. I previously owned an iBook with OS X so I knew I'd be OK spending the majority of my time in OS X again. You're making more of a gamble because you're planning to run Windows only.

It should be, but I haven't tried it yet. Simple key mappings can be done through the registry, or a utility like SharpKeys. But I assume you want to make modifier-key combinations perform the functions of dedicated keys, such as mapping Fn + Up Arrow to Page Up. I haven't got around to that yet, but plan to.

 

At the end of the day, I'll definitely end up keeping an OSX partition if I get an MBA, and who knows, I may be a convert. But it's comforting to know that you at least have the option of Windows.

By the way, I was doing some research yesterday and found a third party driver named Trackpad++ for Windows on Mac, which by all reviews I've seen drastically improves the experience. It's donation ware, but a lot of people say it's worth it - might be worth a look.

 

Just curious, is it really worth doing all these workarounds? You're buying a brand new computer. If you need to do workarounds to make it do what it's not designed to do right out of the box then is it really worth it? Regardless what workarounds you do there will still be a handful of gotcha's trying to turn a real Mac into a sudo Windows machine. You won't need to do any of this with a real physical Windows machine. I'm sure you'll ignore my post but I am really trying to offer you fair advice since I have experience with this situation.

 

I'm not going to ignore your post, and I'm really appreciative of the feedback, but if by "all these workarounds" you mean one non-proprietary driver, then I don't think it's that big of a deal. And as I say, I'm planning on buying a refurb because I am a poor man.

I guess you haven't been using Windows as a dedicated OS for a long time, judging by your avatar. By the sounds of it, I will have had to spend a whole lot more time getting my XPS M1330's fan to place nice and CPU/GPU undervolted and underclocked than I will to get everything working okay on Windows 7 running through a MBA.

Again, as I say, it's mostly an economic issue for me - I want a really thin, light laptop without sacrificing screen real estate. I can get a MacBook Air with 4 gigs of ram (double what I currently have), a processor one generation up from what I currently have, resolution far superior to what I currently have and hopefully I won't have to deal with my leg melting anymore and my back aching when I carry it around campus.

I know it's kinda difficult to understand, but I do really enjoy using Windows because I've spent an awful lot of time getting my setup right. And if the new MBA and new bootcamp run Windows just dandy - even with "all the workarounds" to install a different driver, and even if I have to do more than that - it'll be 1000-800 cheaper than the equivalent Samsung 9 series, cheaper than the Lenovo alternative, in all probability cheaper than Asus's new "ultrabook" (which won't be out for 5 months more) and that's including Apple care.

So yeah, I'm still tossing it up, but if I do get an MBA and the sky falls and Windows kills the battery life, the trackpad doesn't work at all and there are other horrible compromises I'll just give OSX a try or if I can't bear it sell the machine. Again, I really appreciate your feedback, but it seems like if the biggest issue is reduced battery life of an hour that might well be worth saving a thousand dollars on.

 

Poor? You? I don't think so. Many people can't even afford to buy a computer. For many such a luxury is not in the cards. Unemployment, high rent, cost of living, trying to make ends meet. Consider yourself rich that you have the ability to choose one, let alone a Mac that cost more than most.



Oy Vey, this is the problem with the internet. Avatars alone are what people point to, to base who you are and what you do. I haven't at all spoken negatively about Windows or given you reasons why OS X is better. Let's just say, don't decide what system I use based on an avatar. The avatar is there for comedy more than anything else.

I'm basically helping you with a hardware decision. Here's why I'm recommending against buying a Macbook Air to turn it into a Windows machine. Almost weekly someone (a troll generally) will come to the Mac forum and tell us what they can get better in the PC world for half the amount of any Mac. Most of it is just to spark a rise out of people which is unnecessary. But there are a few decent choices in the PC world and you can get a thin and light decently built PC notebook that doesn't cost double of the MBA. You're only choosing one machine, the Samsung to compare. Can you honestly say to yourself that you've really looked at all options?
There's something for everybody in the PC world.


What you're sorta doing by buying a Mac to do a PC job is like buying an iPad to run Android. It's kinda like putting icing on top of bread and passing it off as cake. You're making it out to be something that it's not.

I think it's amazing that Apple has designed the Mac to accommodate a Windows partition but the experience is to be about running an occasional app or two or a few games. That's why Apple doesn't dedicate much resources into giving you the best Windows experience on a Mac. They put their time into OS X and for good reason.

Do what you want. It's your money. In fact, you seemed convinced that a Mac is the way to go so I say go for it, get the Macbook Air and turn it into a Windows machine. No harm done, it's what you want at the end of the day.

I will say this. You're allowing yourself to be locked into Windows. Nobody is locked into anything where they can't try something new. There's plenty of software on both platforms and if you're hellbent on running Windows and refuse merge to OS X, it's because you choose to, not because you can't.

 

I'm a full time student and my income is $14,000 per annum, which is below minimum wage in my country. I'm buying a laptop because of a scholarship I received for education costs, which allows me $1000, so I'd rather not waste too much of my own money on top of that. As I said, thankyou for your responses and I'm taking what you said on board.

As far as buying an iPad to run Android goes, my phone, the HD2, was given to me by my brother at the end of his contract. It was designed for Windows mobile and now runs Android 2.3. So I'm not exactly allergic to trying new OSes on different hardware, and I don't think it's that insane. But I'll let you know how I get on if I end up choosing the MacBook Air next semester.

 

Fn can't be detected by SharpKeys according to the author. Bootcamp is responsible for enabling that functionality apparently.

 

I'm also a former Dell M1330 owner (which died of gpu overheating..), and I've looking at the MBA and new Samsung.

For me, the screen on MBA 13" almost makes it worth it alone. 16:10 and 900p vs. the low res. 16:9 screen on the Samsung (and most of the other new laptops...)
The batterylife on MBA with Win7 seems okay, but the keyboard and touchpad may pose some problems.
I'm going to wait 1-2 months and see if the MBA get's an upgrade, or other 13-14" with high res screen shows up.

 

i was also tossing up between the Samsung 9 series and the MBA but it sounds like windows runs just fine on it

and as my norwegian friend said, the screen is amazing

 

MBA refresh rumored to be soon...