engineers and mac

i currently have a vista laptop which ive used for nearly 2 years..after seein the new macbook i really feel like gettin one of those..but is it too early to switch considerin ive used my present laptop only for less than 2 years??

also, my main problem is, im an engineering student and in the future i'll need to use programs like matlab, solidworks and various other programming applications to interface chips and circuit boards with the computer...can you use a mac for this?i know you can run windows on a mac but will it slow things down??will it consume heaps of resources??and can you interface stuff wit the mac, like as if it was interfaced wit a windows pc?

 

Running Windows on a Mac through Boot Camp is exactly the same as running Windows on any other PC, things won't be any slower, it will consume just as much resources as any other PC, because Mac OS X is not running when Windows is, and Windows is not running when Mac OS X is.

Windows functions exactly the same as any other PC on the MacBook. Whatever you can do in Windows on a Dell or HP, you can on a MacBook in Windows!

 

for matlab you are better off using a linux os like ubuntu. As far as how long you should go with your current pc, that is up to you. I am personally waiting for the next refresh to take a step into the world of apple. I would reccomend the same to you.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

is it good to buy the latest macbook/MBP or to wait abt 3 more years for the next one???

also..will start up time of either mac or windows thro boot camp increase???

so bascally mac is the way to go since you can hav both mac and windows???im still not sure the amount to which i will use mac...

does mac hav a smiliar application to onenote??

 

mac is not better for being able to have 2 Operating systems as u can run OSX on any intel computer (might be some driver issues but it can be done). and you can run linux on everything aswell so dont decide based on what operating system you can run.

bootcamp does not speed up start up times thats based on your hardware like a faster harddrive such as a solid state drive would speed up boot

and waiting 3years is silly why not just wait untill your 80years old then buy a mac by then they will be even better. IMHO if you like the product apple are offering and want to switch then do so no one can tell you if you should upgrade now or later.

you will definatly notice and improvement running OSX over vista especially on a brand new laptop with up to date components then a laptop that was out when vista was originally released.

just my 2pence ^^

 

see...the only thing stopping me is tht my current laptop is a 1.83 core 2, 2gb ram, 160gb harddisk, geforce go 7400....so im only thinkin whether my present laptop can still b used for somemore time..i only got it last year in march..

i dont know..it is a lot of money too...will see...

are there any cons to gettin an apple?

 

It's not worth the trouble to run OSX on a PC box.

 

other than the legal issues its not hard to do at all.

 

Well for me I made the switch to Mac OSx and I am still on the fence to be honest with you. Yes having the ability to run all my engieering suites in Vista is great, but having to continually switch between Mac and Vista a PIA.

I really enjoy using Mac OSx I mean it does everything I need but, the GPU lacks serious power for Autocad and other suites, it also isn't so great for a casual game, as I am on the road more often then not.

Battery time is a mjor bonus while working in Osx and so is the ease of use. But making things work in a business setting aren't teh best yet for Mac. I think there still needs to be alot ported over.

Like I said I am still on the fence. And I am currently thinking about selling my 17" MBP and going with the 15.4 Sager.

Some advice woudl be to think long and hard about what your computer needs to do. And decide wether or not YOU can live with the switches from one OS to another or having ease of ue in an office enviroment.
Don't get me wrong I love my Mac but it's hard to be the lone wolf in the buisness world.

Try using certain functions of MS Offcie or Visio or cad or even Engineering Modeling software just think about what you need it to do.

 

It works but it isn't the best thing in the world. If you're doing EE stuff, which it sounds like you are, I would go another route. I work for a company that makes radiotelemetry equipment and I have a MacBook Pro right now and I don't think I would do it again.

I've found I spend 99.99% of my time in Windows. Some of the big name Scientific programs have been ported to OSX but not the majority. No major chip programming board has an OSX emulation. So you will have to spend most of your time in Windows. On top of that most of the people you will be writing software for don't use a Mac.

Also keep in mind that MacBooks have only 2 USB connections so you will need a USB hub or 2. I've also found that the boot camp drivers don't work all that well so I end up carrying around a mouse.

Macs are a consumer PC, probably the best consumer PC, but they really aren't made for us.

I hope this helps.

Take care,

JP

 

Like th others said, I dont think the graphics card is powerful enough to run your CAD tools.

When I had to use the digital lab to program VHDL stuff onto FPGA boards, all the computer boxes were PCs.

Amongst engineers in general, I have seen Macs used by a select few software engineers. They were only able to do it because OSX has unix support and they could SSH into the university computers. I'm sure if OSX didnt have unix support, it would have much less support by engineers.

As a prospective buyer of the macbook, my goal is to develop Iphone apps and C++ code because it has native unix support and it looks cool. If it didnt have both, I wouldnt even consider it.

 

Didn't know it ran on Mac OSX. But compared to Windows it supposedly runs smoother and takes up less memory.

 

but isnt the new macbook pro pretty good??it had a geforce series 9 GPU and comes in either 256 or 512 MB..so wont that be enough for modelling, CAD and gaming??my present laptop only has a series 7 128MB GPU wit 128 shared..

i once installed MAC OSx on my laptop and the only thing which stopped me from using it was the difficulty in getting the wireless stuff and internet to work..i jus dont know whether to make the switch now or later..

 

The new MBP is pretty solid, if you really don't need a new laptop now, hold off as long as you can so that when you do buy, you by the best potential system you can get. That is my take on it. I have been looking into getting myself a MBP for well over a year but have held off because I have managed to work around my notebook's problems so I really didn't have a need for it.

But the choice is up to you man, I hear that the next refresh is the one worth waiting for...

 

Simple answer: No it's not enough.

A CAD / modeling card needs a beefier card. I'm not sure about the specifics, but the gaming cards are pale in price and CAD performance when compared to the FireGL and Quadro based cards.

However, I think if you are doing simple modeling e.g. drawing or looking at simple features, I think these cards are OK and will get you by. It may be choppy and may not support all the features, but you can get by. In college (if I remember right), i got by with a Voodoo 2 in an early version of Pro-E. Professionally, I did have an IBM Thinkpad T61 (has mobile Quadro chip) and got by on simple CATIA parts. Anything more complicated, it rendered poorly and slow.

 

I think you may be asking 2 questions:
1. Is the Mac powerful enough to run 'heavy duty' programs. If you get the MBP the answer is 'yes'. My son is doing a PhD in Physics and he just got a MBP and all the department uses Macs and he couldn't be happier.

2. Are all the programs you need compatible?
Only you can answer that by checking the compatibility of each program. As others have said, a certain number of Engineering programs will not be available in a Mac version. But Matlab and stuff that that should be just fine.

 

I to am waiting for the next MBP refresh. It will be here sooner than you think.

 

What do they usually do for refreshes? Is there a general trend for these (ie. every 3 months)? I'm looking at the normal MB and if something happens around Christmas then I can wait.

 

atm, and im sure in the future, i would b using mainly internet(firefox/safari), messenger and office..and VLC player..i would need a program to compile my C programs mayb later on, and then interface boards and stuff wit the laptop(for tht i can use windows on boot camp)..so basically i need windows for games, solidworks, prgrogramming work,matlab and other engineerin stuff...

i think i might go ahead and buy it..

 

when is the next refresh???and wht happens during the refreshes??more performance features???

 

There's little reason to run OSX on a PC anyway .

You need us! Rawr!

 

I guess the next refresh would be Nathalem. Or other wise known as i7. The desktop versions should be availible around mid november. No more FSB and HT will be back.

 

Haha, seems like you are going to be spending most of your time on Windows... I am a computer science major myself and I recommend using a unix based operating system for programming. So when you get a mac, program on it using the terminal for compiling and use a text editor or another program, such as Xcode, that will help you in editing files. You will learn a whole lot more this way, and you won't have to deal with the compilation nonsense on Windows. I explicitly went out of my way this school year to install Ubuntu for my programming. Don't regret it one bit.

 

nathalem refresh expected to come out?

 

Well Core i7 is expected for desktops around mid november. Not a big boost in gaming. But a heck of a good boots in other processor chores. Especially in H264 encoding. Somewhere along the lines of a 20-40% boost of current systems.

I think this would be the update to wait for, if apple move fast with a roll out. I am thinking of getting a new laptop at this time. not before.

 

I would think (if any) next refresh to happen in ~6+ months?

If you want to get a MAC because you think it's cool, just say it
IMO, I think the MAC is cool. That's why I want it even though I know I can get better productivity out of a PC laptop (e.g. wont have to switch OS when I need to program with MFC).

I'm a Software Engineer (ex - Mechanical Engineer), and I find the features it offers to be excellent for programming. For Solidworks stuff, it wont be as good as a Quadro based mobile workstation, but it'll do (again depending on how complex your models are built).

It's compilation nonsense in Windows if you don't use a decent IDE. But I agree... Makefiles and Ant build files are easier in Linux once you get used to it.

 

There is very little reason to play the "let's wait for the next refresh" game... there's always going to be a new model coming around the corner. If you buy one now, it will be no less useful 6 months from now... but if you constantly worry about waiting for the next version, then all you're ever going to is be constantly waiting.

Apple just overhauled the MBP, which means you're going to have to wait until at least February-March for the next update... and it will only be an incremental update at that, ie - slightly faster processor most likely and not much else.

Frankly, you'd be better off simply buying a close out, last-gen model from their refurb store. Buying a "brand new" Mac is a waste of money... you get the same warranty and everything buying a refurb as you do buying brand new, while saving a good deal of money.

Right now, they have a 2.4GHz C2D w/2GB RAM, 200GB HD, SuperDrive, and the GeForce 8600M GT w/256MB dedicated vram for $1349... If you feel the need to have "top of the line," the 2.6GHz version with 512MB ded. vram is $1799.

If you've found application performance to be satisfactory with the machine you're currently using, then you'll be extremely pleased with the performance of either of those machines.

There is however, one main caveat... If you buy the machine with the intent of only booting into Windows to do necessary work with your Windows-only applications offline, while using the Mac for all of your general computing needs, ie - internet, email, digital media, etc... Then its a good direction to go. But, if you're going to find yourself simply booting into Windows all of the time, then there is very little reason for you to invest in a Mac and you'd be better served by buying elsewhere.

 

I would expect the next notebook updates to happen around March, Intel Nehalem should be ready then.

 

Nehalem for Notebooks will be ready Q3 2009!

 

Really? I haven't heard, I thought they were still on track for early part of 2009...

 

Correct. Intel will sit on the mobile version of Nahalem as long as they can; until AMD throws something out there. It seems like this is going to be a slow "tock" for mobile users, while Intel milks Penryn.

 

I think Nahalem for notebooks will be sooner then you think. If the new CPU's are that good Intel won't take it's time pushing them out the door. Plus AMD are releasing some new chips in 2009 so maybe some pressure on intel AGAIN.

 

Yeah, but in this case the OP said that he hasn't even used his Vista notebook for 2 years, which means he still has a more than capable machine. So I recommended that he wait for the next refresh, because it really makes sense in his case. Also, nehalm is going to be quite a significant improvement over Penryn.

 

I run windows through bootcamp on my macbook pro and solidworks runs like a dream.

 

wow...i think solidoworks and matlab are gonna be the most heavy duty applications im ever gonna use..

anothe qeustion, if you run windows in boot camp, can you install drivers and stuff??like to connect cables, and other hardware, like as if you were running windows on its own computer??

 

Yes, you basically use your Mac hardware as a Windows machine.

 

Ummmm, well......

Intel this week announced that "production" of mobile Nehalem (Clarksfield) chips will commence in sometime in the Q3 timeframe, but no comments were made regarding whether this is just starting the fabs or that this will be full production followed shortly thereafter by general availability. Thus, we have no timeline for actual shipping date estimates on Nehalem chips - it could be delayed well into Q4 '09.

 

According to Anandtech you get way worse battery life in Vista vs OS X on the MacBook / Pro. Just a point of note.

I love macs and they are great for programming work and CS stuff. But if you need to interface with some weirdo hardware with serial ports and things, or you need a FireGL, I'd get a Thinkpad.

OS X is way better than Windows for techies, obviously, because of its unix underpinnings. I use the terminal all the time. But if you only run Windows on your MBP then that doesn't do you any good. Switching between OSs is not really worth the trouble IMO.