flame away but the time capsules should NEVER be used as a backup device

Well after time capsule number 22 of 31 died today, I thought I may rant slightly about these so called server grade backups

they " Just Work " for a few months to 2 years then seem to LOVE to pack it in taking entire backups and even causing me to transplant drive platters to recover business data.... small piece of advice go find a decent seagate or WD drive and use that

and sure looks like im not alone either as I will soon be entering 22 serial numbers in the dead Time capsule directory

http://timecapsuledead.org/

next time apple wants a server grade backup try something with redundant power supplies and a SERVER grade drive, not some drive outta the discount bin

 

No flame here. The data is strong that these devices have serious problems with longevity and reliability; it wouldn't be so bad if they were cheap (they are not) OR if premium-priced (which they are) they had premium server-rated drives and electronics in them. If Apple runs true to history they will not admit error until faced with a serious class-action lawsuit, which is just a shame.

 

glad im not alone, cause im REALLY sick of rebuilding the power supplies in these things for people who wont let em die, Swapping motors and PCB's in those crappy so called server grade Hitachi's and Recovering HUGE amounts of data, ... then the pricks at apple give me the same line every time ...... you opened the device to recover the data ...... warranty void



you know some good proven seagate constellation drives and a better cooling system, and a well engineered power supply isnt too much to ask is it?

 

i've also read on engadget that these devices just work and then fail after a year or 2...i will also advise people to get a simple and cheaper hard drive and connect it to a cheap router which supports usb drives...

 

Um...ok. Thanks.

 

That's too bad; I was seriously considering getting one in the next month or so but I think I'll shelf that idea for now. The concept and design of the Time Capsule looked good to me, on paper at least.

So is it just that Apple is using crappy drives in them or is the design at fault?

 

Luke, send them for a cheap NAS unit with RAID. Mirrored drives are a life saver if they REALLY want their data safe. something like the dns-323 and a pair of 1T drives is under $400

 

first sorry for the double post

1 they are using crappy drives ( hitachi deskstars ) which die under heat and are NOT giving a MTBF number

2 the damn fan in them is useless so they OVERHEAT from having a power supply and a drive squshed in a tiny space with other electronics, and no decent venting

3 not so great of an internal power supply, sometimes you can resurect them with alot of work soldering in some replacement capacitors. had better luck building an external power supply and using that

4 the drive is not user accessable so data recovery instantly voids warranty

5 what moron uses a single drive for vital data backup ... can we say MIRRORED drives

so Im calling it a HUGE design fault. Come on they advertise this a server grade backup, I wouldnt use it to back up my print server

and these problems extend to the new batches as well as 4 of my dead are mfg in mid 2009

and one of my favorite lines from the apple forums:

 

I've looked at the Time Capsule drives.... was quite tempted but they're way too much for what you get. I'm currently looking at a WD external drive, poss a networked one with raid. That way I get a cheaper drive, with a 2nd backup also.

Backups or external storage should last longer than 2 years. A hard drive by iteself shouldn't output that much heat. I gather from other posts TCs don't have fans in them...... kinda poor maybe, but I've seen dell PCs that have drive 4/5 years old and they run quite hot, but survive on 1 fan on the PSU.

My 2 cents.

 

I'll be welcoming an HP Windows Home Server soon - and hope to retry Time Machine with that. The Time C... - damn, I promised not to do that any more, curses - Capsule is worthless as a backup asset since it's slow, unreliable and uses Time Machine which is itself inherently unreliable.

I hope to remove the first two negatives with the HP, and have it as a convenient 'goback' and first-level backup (when all else fails I still have my Superduper backups) that actually more or less really 'Just works' better in the way that Windows-based stuff actually does.

 

Wow. Just Wow.

I'm speechless...........

 

well it sure cant be a worse setup , and if you toss in an extra pair of seagate barracuda 2T's ... lotta junk storage

 

I take it that you don't qualify for comment number 5? Sounds like you do seeing as you created this thread and had over 30 TC's. Flame all you want but I'm finding this a little hard to believe that you went through this many TC's. I'm on my first one since Macword 2007 and have had zero issues, period.

 

My personal, and business data backup is all in RAID, I have over 30 TC's I work with because I am a Sysadamin for multiple companies who have a very eccliptic mix of equipment. I am not your average home user or gamer. to me 30 Tc's is a very tiny fragment of the backup units I work with weekly and when I have a 2/3 failure rate I occasionally feel the need to pass on the occasional warning and in some cases a bit of a what were they thinking rant

and please do a search on your own as to the number of users affected by the power, heat and drive problems as this is even much more wide spread then even I dreamed of.

 

I use a 1 TB Time Capsule for backups of this MBP. No problems whatsoever in the past couple of months or however long it's been.

Would not have picked up a TC if I didn't find one at a good price (refurbished, but for just north of $100 if memory serves). Figured that it's worth a shot for that kind of money.

I do have another external Western Digital drive that I'm planning to use for manual periodic backups just in case.

(Why is Time Machine unreliable?)

 

Think about it. Single Drive.

Would you entrust your entire 500GB-1TB worth of data on a single drive without redundant backup? What if you forget to backup the TC?

 

That's exactly what I'm not doing. I'm just asking why Time Machine itself is inherently unreliable.

 

I believe the OP was pointing out the failure rate and flawed design of Time Capsule.

Time Machine, the software portion is not necessarily be the culprit, but the single hard disk design in Time Capsule.

This to me defeats the whole purpose of automated backup (I mean, you yourself admitted you will do manual backup of the backup).

If Apple really cared, they would have made TC at least a RAID-1 solution.

 

And why should I care to do a search when my 1TB Time Capsule has been flawless since I got it in early 2008? Not trying to flame you but I'm not a pessimist, I don't need to go looking for negatives on every piece of Apple equipment I buy. It so annoying how people come here looking only for the negatives before buying an Apple product and even after they buy it even when it's working fine for them. There are MANY of us that have good experiences, not everything is widespread, and if you think the number of people posting complaints on the internet outweighs the number of people who are having good experiences that don't post you're sadly mistaken.

 

This problem does not affect all people who purchased it but a large amount of people have encountered this problem...

 

True for basically anything. The more displeased people tend to be the most vocal ones, after all.

 

He never said this will occur to all people. His post specifically states the view that the time capsule is not in any way shape or form a reliable backup for server operations.

I don't understand HLdan's hostility here. There has been A LOT of hostility in the forums recently. His views aren't specifically geared towards home users or even casual users. His views aren't even against Apple equipment in entirety. His views are geared towards business users. Users who's paychecks depend on the reliability of the TC.

A home user can get by on a single drive backup. Because losing their data won't affect their mortgage. CrazyCanuk, however, is in a different situation and he serves up a warning to all those with similar motivation.

It's misinformed to position his view or respond to his topic as otherwise.

 

I am relieved to have never been able to afford a TC unit, for I would have purchased it as an automated backup device.

I am equally pleased to see threads like this. Perhaps Apple will respond in the manner that customers will hopefully demand.

Apple, are you listening?...Please make available to us a decent, reliable, automated backup device. And when you do, call it "Time Capsule Pro", so we might be assured that we don't have to have a redundant backup solution for yours.

 

There's not a single post from the OP that stated he was only alerting all business users. He's a business user with multiple TC's. 30+ to be exact, IMO he's way overreacting. His 30+ TC's plus any other ranters on the internet barely represent 1/10th of a percent of the amount of TC's that Apple sells. I'm not backing up Apple in terms of this as there are people with legit complaints. My concern is people spreading FUD such as the OP's title saying that Time Capsules should NEVER be used as a backup device.
Did his post say, "Alerting all business owners, be cautious before deciding to use Time Capsule as your only backup device"? NO.

Also, I'm not holding hostility, however my annoyance as I mentioned earlier is result from posts like this. Others, besides myself have said we are having zero issues with our TC's, yet this poster ONLY acknowledged the ones posting negatives and didn't give a rats behind about anyone saying anything positive. Sometimes I wonder if these forums are more for therapy rants rather than offering help. This really is a big FAIL.

 

I love my Time Capsule. I have had zero issues. I have had it for almost two years.

Sure some may malfunction--just as all hardware. But I'm not buying the conspiracy.

 

Oh, the cognitive dissonance begins. Nor did he say "ALERT ALL HOME USERS."

The big fail is if you substitute Time Capsule with "Dell/HP/ACER/ASUS" laptop, there would be none of this hostility. The big fail is the blatant double standard shown here. If one person says "I have exchanged five Dell laptops because some plastic piece is out of place" there would be no discussion. If one user says, "my PC BSODed five times today" there would be no discussion. If one user says, "My PC has flex in the keyboard" there would be no discussion here.

But this user has 22 Time Capsules crap out on him. Not 5, not 2, not 3, but 22. To give you an idea, 22 1TB Time Capsules equals $5500. And that is just the cost of equipment. Add on labor to make new backups and it gets real expensive.

Imagine if one of those Mac Pros died on you. And Apple goes "Well, to get back your data and be able to work tomorrow, you have to void your warranty. So you choose between your paycheck and five grand. Have a nice day"

Seriously, this summarizes your misinformed view

Lets do a simple search here. Oh wow, he never said that.
If you read the thread, you can summarize Crazycanuk's complaint in this properly cut and pasted quote

http://www.apple.com/timecapsule/backup.html

Seriously. Come to your senses.

While my mom told me never to argue with a fool, I, like you, am not a pessimist.

Search your feelings. You know it to be true!!!!

And search your precious Apple support forums. CrazyCanuk's experience is by no means an isolated incident.

Edit:

I myself will rather /wrist than spend $250 for a 1TB HD.

 

All I can recommend to you is to GROW UP! Don't create scenarios about me which you know nothing about. Don't say crap like, "If it was Dell or HP being complained about you wouldn't say anything...." You have no idea what I would say. Sounds like you're a fanboy of the OP since you feel such a dire need to defend him and create extra words which he never said, just like you're creating scenarios about me. Learn to be helpful rather than being a fanboy of the OP and start attacking me. You're way out of line and OT. The thread discussion is about the Time Capsule and the OP's thread title is not only generalizing, but making ridiculous assumptions that everyone is gonna have problems with the TC and it simply isn't true.

 

Honestly I thought about one of these for 5 seconds, it seemed like a toy to me. My MBP connects to a dedicated external HDD every couple days when I am at home and does a backup (7 year habit of backing up a couple times a week). My desktop backs up to a RAID config on my media server.

My MBP is mostly doing work online, so if it died 5 minutes before I would backup, 99% of what I "may lose" is on the web safe and sound.

Sorry to hear about the issues lately with those things.

 

Ok, guess I should have made the title more along the lines of never use one as a VITAL back up device. Now HL I fully agree not everyones TC unit will fail, but I will clarify that the failure rate of those that I have used from 3 specific batches have a high failure rate.

Now dont get me wrong but after 18 years of working with electronics I can most certantly rant for days on problems with equipment from pretty much any manufacturer.

Do I use Apple products, Yes continually since mid 1986.

Do I use other equipment, of course I do, look at my job and my sig

Do I have issues with other manufacturers, you bet every one of them has crappy equipment somewhere.

Now I will admit that my extreme failure rate was a shock, and VERY expensive and possibly detrimental to one of my Customers.

now how would anyone feel if all their backups of documents, pictures, music were to crap out when they needed it most. now look at it in a business point.

That $400 TC just became a HUGE liability as you need to pull someone in who instantly voids the warranty, dig out the reflow station and fix the power unit .... or in one extreme case Physically remove the platters from a drive, change out the motor on the drive and re-assemble to recover accounting data because the TC was NEEDED. so the owner could recover his data because his 15"Pro was STOLEN.

Now simple FYI Hitachi themselves call the deskstar series CONSUMER DRIVES
http://www.hitachigst.com/portal/site/en/menuitem.d673d3340c97167c10441762eac4f0a0/

total cost to that business for that little fau-paux ..... in excess of $10,000
when he had to go to an earlier backup cause the first one was corrupted... Lotta OT for that accounting department

 

Never had a problem with any of my Time Capsules. Do they run warm? Yes. Do ALL Apple laptops etc run warm? Yes.

You're always going to hear about the ones that die. Think about the millions of people who are using them without issue. I got a 500GB Time Capsule at launch, it works 24/7 and I've never had an issue. I also picked up a 1TB dual-band Time Capsule at launch, and guess what, too? No issues!

My father is also running a 500GB TC from launch, and no issues there either.

I'd also like to say, this whole thread seems like a big exaggeration. How did these people lose data? Did all these Time Capsules AND original computers die within seconds of each other? I know that if my Time Capsule died, I'd get a new one ASAP, and then resume backing up.... And personally, if you care THAT much about your data, one backup is never enough. A real backup isn't connected to an outlet 24/7... One surge/lighting strike and you lose it all, anyway. I run two separate backups. I can't afford to lose my photo-journalistic work.

 

Most of these individuals also setup folders on their TC's to store more then their Backups on it, but used it as a network drive as well ..... all by the recomendation of a " genius "who said its a great way to store files

only 8 units needed Data recovery but that is still 8 too many

 

I'll give you some sound advice, especially since I do run my own insurance business and have been in business for years so my client's data needs to be accessible to me at all times. First I run my entire business on Macs and I have a Time Capsule plus another backup appliance (Drobo). I also use Mobileme and store client files there in case my local physical drives fail. I also have a local iDisk on each Mac so my client files are backed up if the TC fails, I'm covered, if my Drobo fails I'm covered, if Mobileme loses my data I'm covered since each Mac has a local iDisk independent of the internet.
Yes, you should also backup your data via cloud computing. If you're going to trust important business files on local physical hard drives only you are definitely facing in the direction of a possible doom.

 

I don't doubt the backup strategy. The part that bothers me is that they are advertised as server grade........

Seriously, if a harddrive is going to fail inside of 5 years, there is no reason to bother. It's like archiving on acidic paper.

A backup medium should be reliable, otherwise what is the whole point of trusting my data to it.

 

Im imporessed HL, you are one of the few businesses that doesnt go WHAT???? when you ask them about backups. I Like the drobo units as well and prefer them to alot of nas units except for the Qnap TS or Seagate Black Armor units ( better software and speed ) but unfortunatly in this age of under educated techs and cutting corners proper backups especially offsite are a rarity. and when you toss in consumer grade electronics ........ you see my point.


I do see one small problem with your backup and dont get too angry but conforming to our laws here your doing a huge no no as if one of your machines was stolen alot of personal information becomes at large. Insurance companies, medical locations from labs to chiropractors, optomitrists, etc. HAVE to keep electronic data in a Locked room up here and not on a local drive for security of said personal information

 

You have a good point. I'm looking into using FileVault to encrypt my Home folder on each Mac. Although the desktop is protected under encryption, I'm not sure about the iDisk folder. Working on confirming that. Nothing is perfect and nobody's backup solution is rock solid. Hospitals and banking institutions have plenty of physical files that can get stolen as well.

 

Time Capsules were NEVER meant to be dedicated business backup devices. They were always meant to be simple to use for anyone, and mainly targeted at people who have never backed up anything before.

Sorry to say, but you are a fool for thinking backing up important business data to single drives was wise. Especially one surrounded by a power supply and router hardware. . .

 

Actually it would still be bad if they were cheap. A $79 tb WD external is cheap and almost failproof. Hard drives should not be expected to fail. period. It was a great idea to combine rounter/wireless storage/usb but it misses the main point of data backup, to actually preserve the data.

 

iDisk has no security at all, and file vault .... somewhat secure but it still opens up to a linux or unix box like a box of crackers. If you have the whole machine ..... its like a hot knife through paper


here is one of many articles on file vaults shortcomings for encryption. And I admit to having an employee good at file vault recovery ..... in under 15 mins.

http://zdziarski.com/papers/filevault.html

but ya we have to worry about physical security as much as the backups its on

and Circa I agree fully, but unfortunatly the previous IT bunch screwed the pooch and Im left with the mess.... no one did their homework

 

No it can't. I can envisage why they aren't more popular with Mac owners, but WHS vs TC very clearly illustrates the approaches of both camps and I'd say WHS may be more suitable for some home / SB Apple users who aren't completely indoctrinated to Fisher-Price = best.

 

Hmmm.... I was actually thinking about getting the 2TB version soon, but after reading the two huge threads on Apple forums regarding this, I may look for an alternative (e.g., a networked drive or HP home server).

Thanks for the heads up OP; I would not have known about this since I dont check Apple forums regularly.

 

I'd have to say that a single drive solution for backups is not a good idea in any situation. I got burnt with a Lacie drive that I was using as a backup. Lost everything. Would have got a TC but the bad experience with a single drive solution turned me off.... so I got a Drobo instead, and now that some TC's are failing prematurely, I'm very glad I did.

At the end of the day if your data is worth backing up then your backup needs redundancy. So if you are going to get a TC then you'd better buy two .....lol
a

 

Buying two TCs. Sort of underscores the validity of the solution :laugh:

I do endorse the WHS. It is one of the more versatile solutions available to home users.

 

WHS can be nice, HP kindly has a plug-in that supports Time Machine natively as where if you dont know where the plug in you need to setup shares and use itimemachine .... still works well but EXTRA work for the Mac side

and Underpantman, those little drobo units are GREAT, LOL, but dont load em with the hitachi deskstars ..... they die in there too but thank goodness they are mirrored