macbook (apple) vs. T61 (Lenovo)

I bought a refurbished black macbook a week ago for $1150 + tax CAD, which i think is a good price. Now I've been having this dilemma between the Lenovo T61, Dell D630 and macbook. I didn't opt for the D630 because there aren't many reviews of it yet, and the T61 I had heard had a really dim screen. The non-refurb macbooks were too expensive for their specs, but the refurb price is what sealed the deal.

But today I saw a T60 15.4" for the 1st time, and from what I understand the screen is very similar to that of T61. And you know what? I thought the screen was pretty good. And I loved the feel of the laptop, from the hinges to the screen, everything. And of course I've heard that it's a quiet, cool, good performing laptop overall, and the battery issues seem to be connected mostly with windows VISTA.

So my conclusions is this: if OS X isn't that much of a big deal for you, and you have more money than a refurbished black macbook (around $1050 USD + tax), the Lenovo T61 is almost superior in every way. Better quality inside and outside, ability for more customization, and of course, cheaper than the macbook at the same specs.

If I hadn't seen the refurbished macbook prices, I would've chosen the T61, hands down. But I think I'll be happy with my macbook anyways, especially considering the low price that I got for it.

 

If you want an Apple, I think the MacBook Pro is a better value.

 

Well, of course the T61 is superior in almost every way...... it's a completely different class of notebook.

Having said that, the MacBook is still a nice machine (I would disagree with Homer; for what the MacBook is for, I think it provides a very good value....... if the premium features of the MBP aren't needed, the MB more than does the trick).

You could easily sell your MacBook though and get a T61........ although for what it's worth, it doesn't seem like everything is sunshine and roses with the T61:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopi...&start=0&sid=ab4b09de258fc5f6365b074fb52afb21

-Zadillo

 

The MacBook is a good laptop, however it lacks a video card. In my opinion, the $1,000+ price range is too high for a laptop that lacks a video card.

 

Many laptops in the $1000-1500 price range lack discreet graphics cards. And for many people, discreet graphics aren't a specific requirement, so I'm not sure what the issue here would be. Heck, the large majority of laptops in this price range feature Intel GMA950 (or now Intel GMAX3100 graphics).

Heck, even the T61, after all, at it's price ranges in the MacBook area, only has integrated graphics. And for many users, the NVidia graphics card option for the T61 would be unnecessary.

-Zadillo

 

I understand that some laptop customers do not need a discrete video card. But, I do not think any Apple customers would object to a video card upgrade option.

 

No, probably not, but again, most of the people I know who buy MacBooks don't do anything with them that would benefit from a video card anyway (the people who do want this are either gamers or people who use apps that actually do use the GPU, and for either of those markets, more expensive laptops are more suited to their needs anyway).

The target market for the MacBook and most other $1000-1500 consumer notebooks are consumers that use them for word processing, web browsing, etc. and none of those things depend on dedicated graphics. Frankly, the increased battery life from integrated graphics becomes a general benefit there.

Same thing even for business class machines like the T61 which are available with integrated graphics at the lower price ranges.

 

Even the Dell Latitdue D620 has a video card. It is a really crappy one, and most business users do not need one, but Dell makes it an option.

 

Yes, I understand...... but what's your point?

Yes, it's an option in some laptops, and for people who need them, there are plenty of options out there.

But the MacBook's target audience doesn't normally use them, so I'm still not sure what point you're arguing here.

Obviously someone who just had to have a dedicated GPU would choose a PC notebook with one as an option, or a MacBook Pro.

But there's plenty of merit in the MacBook and any number of other laptops that only have integrated GPU's.

-Zadillo

 

I agree that most customers do not need a dedicated video card, but it is a cheap and easy option to have. I like Apple laptops, but they often lack options. I think Apple should add more options like a video card and WXGA+ resolution for the MacBook. I would have taken a longer look at the MacBook if it offered a better resolution and a video card.

 

Well, the problem Apple has in particular is that they need to maintain clear distinctions between their consumer laptops (the MacBook) and their pro laptops (the MacBook Pro). As it is right now, there's only a $600 difference between the highest-end config of the MacBook and the base-level MacBook Pro.

WXGA+ on a 13.3" screen seems iffy to me though..... does anyone make 13.3" laptops with that resolution? I'm not sure I'd see the point.

Either way, once you did add a dedicated GPU to the MacBook, and if you offered a higher-res screen, you'd probably end up with a price that wouldn't be all that much lower than a MacBook Pro anyway.

Honestly what it sounds like you're describing to me is the ' 13.3" MacBook Pro' that a number of Mac fans have been longing for, an updated equivalent to the old 12" PowerBook G4. These are people who do want the higher-end features but in a smaller form factor.

But frankly again, if they do make something like this, it's going to have to fit somewhere in price between the MacBook and MacBook pro, so it would probably end up in the $1750 range or so, which would really not make a whole lot of sense.

But anyway, ultimately, Apple's need to maintain these distinctions is what keeps them from putting some features on their MacBook line that are found on other "consumer" notebooks (i.e. ExpressCard slots).

I do see your point, but realistically, these things aren't going to come to the MacBook line.......... the closest thing would be that rumoured 13.3" MacBook Pro.

 

I was disappointed when Lenovo decided not to introduce a 14.1" laptop with WSXGA+ (1680x1050) resolution. I want a 14.1" MacBook Pro.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Toshiba offers SXGA+ (1400x1050) resolution on their 12.1" tablet laptops.

 

Honestly I'd be curious about how useable that is. I recall trying to use another Toshiba...... one of those 12.1" U series laptops, and it had a pretty high resolution, but text was really tiny and difficult to read.

As far as Apple, one of the major features in Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) is full Resolution Independence; something they've been building in so that the OS and apps can support it, allowing for much higher resolution screens while allowing things like icons and text and the user interface itself to scale properly so that this general problem is avoided.

I think that once this comes out, Apple will start using higher res screens across the board (there are some rumors that the upcoming MacBook Pro updates might feature higher res screens anyway, since Leopard had originally been planned to be released around this time, but I don't know if that will happen or not).

 

SXGA+ on 12.1? Wouldn't everything be too small to read? That probably puts a big strain on the eyes.

Yes, it would be nice to have the options on a macbook, especially WXGA+. But I don't need discrete graphic cards, and had I taken the T61, I would've bought the integrated version so as to take advantage of longer battery life.

I don't think as you said MBP are a better deal for everyone. Had they made some in 14.1 or 13" then yes, perhaps. But right now, you can't compare them to the smaller macbooks.

 

You couldn't pay me to have a dedicated gpu. integrated graphics and better battery life ftw.

OP, you should stop comparing the Macbook and the T61; they're totally different class notebooks. Obviously the Thinkpad is superior, it's a business notebook. I think everyone on this board knows that the Thinkpad is superior to the MB.

ps. I have a MB. I would have bought a Thinkpad if it wasn't for OS X.

 

Yeah, honestly I don't understand why more companies don't adopt the feature of the Sony SZ, to allow the user to switch between integrated graphics and a dedicated GPU. I think this would be a really nice feature on all sorts of laptops, personally.

 

It would really come down to how the OS handles the resolution. I'm using a 1920x1200 15" screen and under Linux/KDE the fonts are a good size (and sharp). I gather that's what Leopard's Resolution Independence is meant to handle - as resolutions increase, the fonts should appear the same size, just sharper. I have no idea about how well Vista handles this. Anybody know?

 

Yeah, I think that's the direction where OS UI design is going. In Leopard's case at least, the Resolution Independent stuff isn't just about text, but also allowing developers to create apps with resolution independent UI elements, etc. as well, so everything scales properly regardless of the resolution of the device the app is running on.