upgrading from leopard to snow leopard or lion

hey guys,

i have 13 inch macbook white. bout 3 yrs old i guess. 2.1 ghz intel core 2 duo wid 2.5 gb ram(i upgraded it along wid 500 gb hd) . i have leopard on my mac, and i wanted to know whether its wise to upgrade to snow leopard or lion. i mean i dunno whether my current config will be able to handle the new os. or would i need to put more ram.

and also which is better? i know lion is new and all, but still i wanna know user reviews.

Thanks

 

Your system is just fine for Lion however you really should up the ram to at least 4GB for best results. Also, you will have limited multi-touch gesture support since you don't have the new glass trackpad on your Macbook. It really doesn't make sense to go to Snow Leopard at this point as it's being discontinued and newer softwares from developers will be Lion supported. I can't recommend enough to do a complete erase and reformat when upgrading to a newer version OS X. If you just upgrade only you may end up with an unstable system.

EDIT, one thing to note, if you do want install Lion, you will in fact need to upgrade to Snow Leopard first so you can buy Lion through the Mac App Store unless you have a friend or family member that will let you download it through their Mac App Store. If you create a bootable disc you can do a full erase of Leopard and install Lion.

 

so u mean buy snow leopard and then buy lion from mac app store?

 

Buying two seperate copies of the OS and installing them seems like a waste. Back up your data, and buy the OS X Lion thumbdrive, and do a clean install from there.

 

I'm not sure if it's been confirmed that the OS X Lion thumbdrive is a full install of Lion for people with empty hard drives. From what I've read it requires a Snow Leopard install.

 

Really?? Thats ridiculous. If thats the case, it shouldnt cost $69, it should be more in line with what the download would cost from the App Store.

 

I believe the USB key allows for fresh install of Lion. The target audience were those running Leopard or even earlier that do not have access to the Mac App Store.

 

That's not correct. It says right on Apple's website that the USB key is for upgrading from Snow Leopard. The target audience is not Leopard or earlier users. It was just created to have physical media of the downloadable version of Lion.

 

so guys, based on the above discussion, i presume buying snow leopard for now is a better option. coz i dun think i would get a disk or usb for lion here in india(ill check it out) . but can anyone confirm whether the upgrade from snow leopard to lion is free frm mac store or do i have to buy tht as well?

 

I don't know if all of that information is right.

Technically you can't upgrade to Lion without Snow Leopard. You can however install Lion on a blank drive.

So if you know someone with say a 5 pack of Snow Leapoard installs willing to give one up you can use that and then upgrade to Lion. You don't even need to ask them for the disk, you just technically need their permission I guess and then you can do this:

How to install Lion over Leopard | Macworld

Basically you buy Lion on your buddies laptop (Lion and/or Snow Leopard), download the file and do a blank install on your disk (you have to wipe your drive).

Also I found this all out in one google (Forums are helpful, but Google works great too).

 

I don't know if all of that information is right.

Technically you can't upgrade to Lion without Snow Leopard. You can however install Lion on a blank drive.

So if you know someone with say a 5 pack of Snow Leapoard installs willing to give one up you can use that and then upgrade to Lion. You don't even need to ask them for the disk, you just technically need their permission I guess and then you can do this:

How to install Lion over Leopard | Macworld

 

OMG, this is really wrong information. Yes, he can buy Lion on a friend's Snow Leopard Mac as I mentioned earlier, but he will need to create a bootable disk in order to install it on a blank drive. He'd have to right-click on the Lion installer in the Applications folder and choose "Show Package Contents" and drill down the DMG file "InstallESD.dmg". From there he'd have to drag that file into Disk Utility and burn a DVD or make a USB installer.

And what do you mean by he doesn't even have to ask for the Snow Leopard disk, he would just need permission? How would he install Snow Leopard?

 

Read the article.

 

Okay, just read the article. Still, your post is incorrect. Asking for someone's "permission" to use one of their SL installs and not really installing it does nothing. I know you're point was about the license agreement but it doesn't make sense what you said earlier. It's like me borrowing your Mac but I don't take it, I just virtually borrowed it, that's why your point didn't make sense.

The rest of your post saying how to install Lion on a blank drive is incorrect. It requires multiple steps and a creating a bootable DVD. The installer by itself will not install onto a blank drive.

 

Right, you need to explore the package contents of the Lion installer in order to create a bootable install DVD. It isn't something that the installer offers since that is supposed to be used only as an upgrade. I also wonder if there is such a file on the OS X Lion USB thumb drive sold by Apple. It would be more expensive but, if a bootable DVD could be made from that (or even directly boot off of the thumb drive bypassing the whole upgrade route and performing a clean install), they would not have to rely on a friend who is still running Snow Leopard to download the OS X Lion install file.

 

Stick with what you have in the computer as usually it works out for the best. Now, my other machine was pretty new and was upgraded to lion, but SL worked better on it than Lion. Lion, by itself, isn't a whole new change in OSes but just gives you tweaks in gestures etc that aren't really important in the big scheme of things.

 

Do you honestly believe that Lion is just tweaks in the gestures and extra stuff that isn't important? If so then you don't really know Lion or even at best you really never used it. The security upgrade by itself in Lion is worth more than the $30 that Apple is charging. Filevault 2 and Mail are two more reasons why Lion is a major upgrade from Snow Leopard. Spotlight also had a major upgrade in functionality. Let's face the truth, Snow Leopard has been having some major security issues and people have been measuring it against Windows 7 and Windows 7 has come out the winner. That should tell you how bad the security had become in Snow Leopard if it's being compared to Windows 7. As I said, you never used Lion.

 

You can always crack in a system with filevault on and I am not a big fan of mail or outlook for that matter. I know there is supposed to be this launchpad etc in there, but who remembers those pinching maneuvers all the time? I am still using hot corners and frankly, I haven't changed a whole lot after Lion's update.

 

Well I stand corrected, you're right. Lion offers nothing especially since most people can crack in a system with Filevault and since YOU don't like Mail and can't comprehend with the gestures then Lion is worthless for the rest of us. :roll eyes:

Show me proof that anyone has cracked into Filevault 2, and if you have proof show me where it's common. I find it so funny that Windows generally offers very little in features but improves stability and memory management (something already superior in OS X of any version) yet the Windows fans shake their pom poms with cheer even though people have to pay upwards starting at $150 for it. On the Mac side Apple designs their system for future generation, charges very little and it gets undeserving hate. Mail is one the biggest advances in Lion alone. I have a feeling you've really never used Lion.

 

Let us forget hacking the macbook, but how many people actually even use filevault after their original experience with it, if they turned it on in the first place? Heck, I bet most people don't turn on the firewall, which is turned off by default for some reason by apple.

I never said gestures are completely useless, but you have to admit that in OP's case, it is not really worth it to spend money and install Lion on his hardware. I believe there are better uses for that money.

 

His system is just fine for Lion, he just needs to add more ram. What all could he do better for his computer for $30? Are you saying that Lion isn't even worth $30? Anyone smart would pay more than $30 just to get better system security. You're posts are starting to sound like trolling.

 

If you don't visit the sleazy parts of the internet, OSX is pretty safe.

Also from supply and demand economics, the value of a product does not correspond to what it is worth to each individual consumer but the aggregates of all consumers and producers. What that means is that while Lion's $30 price is probably correct, it isn't worth $30 for some people. If Lion was worth $30 for everybody, well the price would probably be set too low then.

 

Well your first line really pertains to the Windows world.

The OP wasn't asking about if Lion was worth it to upgrade or if $30 was too much to pay? He wanted to know if his system was Lion ready and I answered his question which was yes. Please stay on topic rather than joining the "I hate Lion party".

 

All I was pointing out is that any consumer good that is priced well it is not worth the asking price to everybody.

So Lion can be worth $30 and not be worth $30 to him and he is in by no means trolling, that is just his personal belief in the worth of the product he purchased. Not everyone's opinions are going to agree, so one person can recommend a product while another person can criticize it.

 

Yeah, says the guy who recommended a zero dollar game just because the price was good.

 

Ok this is really off topic.

But it is basic math.

Say you can sell to 90% of users at a 99cents price point. You can sell to 70% of users at a $10 price point. Well your revenue increases 10 fold, but your customer base decreases only by 20%. So you make a lot more income.

Hence if income is your priority (which is true of any major corporation) if 100% of your users are willing to pay a certain price then your price is too low because you can make more revenue at a higher price.

Anybody with a sense of economics can understand that.

I would never buy a $0 game just because its free. Why? My time is worth more. But if you are on a budget, a $0 game is a good deal, especially one as high quality as TF2. But once again, majorly off topic.

Also to get a 90%+ adoption rate you generally need to give them something and/or penalize them for not adopting. I.E for some people a price of $0 is not good enough for them to upgrade to new technology. You would have to pay them/impose fines on them for not upgrading for them to upgrade. So TF2 would have to pay you $20 for downloading it for the price to actually hit it so that it was worth it for 90% + of gamers to download it for free. I'm sure you would agree paying someone $20 to download a game for free would be too low of a price.

Basic economics, your potential revenue at a higher price is greater if your adoption rate is very high at a lower level. Hence if you want to make money (like every corporation) you would never do that.

 

Right. However, the OP never asked whether or not Lion would economically survive at the $30 price. All they wanted to know is if their system could run Lion. People have started inserting their personal opinions regarding economics, the features of OS X Lion, and a few other things essentially turning this into a different thread. It started out as simply "can I install Lion" and it has turned into "is Lion worth it," far from the original topic.

 

EXACTLY!!!

The OP asked if his computer was suitable to run Lion and these Lion haters came out in full force with all sorts of personal opinions of why it's not even worth $30 when that had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

It's so painful to watch a thread go down the tubes due to some people who can't stand to see Apple sell a product so much that they have to discredit it in order to talk the OP out of something they were interested in.

To see Shriek11 talk down the features of Lion, go as far as talking about hacking Filevault.....and then watching Xfiregrunt give a long paragraph of Economics 101 over a $30 OS X upgrade is just plain sad.

 

All I said was that if somebody recommends not getting Lion, they aren't a troll, and I proved my statement with clear hard, mathematical evidence so it would be impossible to refute (my only reason for that econ stuff) . I never said Lion isn't worth $30 however.

My b on derailing the thread.

As far as the OP I think the original guide I linked is your best shot, follow the instructions there (pick one depending on your technical abilities) and just go with whatever you want.

 

Yeah, you totally derailed the thread. Still your entire point was pointless. The OP did not ask anyone's recommendation on Lion, he just wanted to know if his system would run it. If you're going to join the discussion you should stay on topic. Personal negative opinions on Lion when it's not part of the discussion do nothing but create troll bait. You're certainly doing a lot of defending in favor of people stirring up controversy on the forum. I'm done here, reply all you want, I know who you are now.

 

The OP quite specifically asked for opinions, I don't understand how you expect all of them to be positive. All I did was state through irrefutable evidence that not everybody would think that Lion was worth $30, it was more of a thought experiment, and that is all I said I did was wrong. I mainly did that because I don't like subjective, anecdotal ideas even though sometimes I have to rely on them.

You can't expect everyone to respond positively when someone asks for an opinion.

 

HLDan -

You're the one who didn't read the OP. Your later posts do nothing but berate other people and they're the only ones here which are off topic. Please, go back and read the OP again. gvarsani also asked whether it was wise to install Snow Leopard or Lion, and asked which was better, and said he knows Lion is newer but wants to hear user reviews. So a discussion of Snow Leopard vs. Lion is on topic.

Anyway, I don't think the $30 will make or break anybody's decision. To me, the more important questions are whether the features in Lion are compelling, whether the UI changes are really a step forward, and whether it's worth the extra work to install.

In my opinion, the answers to those questions are 'maybe', 'no', and 'probably not'. For an older machine with 2.5 GB RAM and no glass trackpad, my advice would be to upgrade to Snow Leopard and wait on Lion. I don't see any reason to stay with Leopard instead of Snow Leopard. SL is better in pretty much every way, including being faster on older hardware. Lion still has bugs.

I upgraded to Lion, but then downgraded back to Snow Leopard for now because Lion broke Time Machine compatibility with my NAS. After using Lion for a month or so, I'm pretty ambivalent about it. There's only two things I really missed from Lion after going back to SL: resizing windows from any edge or corner, and the Finder improvements. I thought Auto-save/Versions was going to be a killer feature, but it doesn't work on network shares which is where I tend to keep my files when not traveling (see aforementioned NAS) or on FAT volumes. I thought Mission Control would be a nice improvement over Expose, but unfortunately it made Spaces work clunkier and I live on Spaces. And I've been wishing for a real window maximize function ever since 10.0, but full screen apps are not that, and they're going to kill off the menu bar.

You do have a good point about security. I don't know whether that is compelling enough for the OP. So far, there haven't been enough people targeting OS X users for me to worry and Apple will still be releasing security updates to Snow Leopard for some time. I see the Lion sandbox model as the way of the future but not a must-have feature today. But it depends on the level of risk one is willing to accept.

EDIT: xfiregrunt beat me to the punch

 

Asking which OS is better to install is not asking if Lion is worth the money spent for it. What's even more disturbing is the negative people on this forum don't really come up with any real arguments other than personal negative opinions by basically saying, "If "I" don't' care for Lion neither should the OP". Everyone is entitled to their opinion (however I'm not in regards to you), but some people come here looking for opportunities to sabotage Apple's OS when they can find a thread that slightly baits them to do so.

I really don't know why you always jump to the offense when it comes to me. I notice no matter how much someone spews hate against Apple you never seem to go against them, yet when I say anything positive to challenge their argument you jump at me saying I berate other people just as you're doing to me. Pot calling the kettle. Please find someone else to hate on here.