[SOLVED] Asus G51J BSoD thread - part 2

well that does it I'm installing XP for gaming

 

Hey Thalanix,

I was wondering if you could help me find the Atheros 8160 LAN driver for XP. The link on the Wikia page is dead. Thanks.

 

Hi guys,

I want to say at this point... Nice work by all of You!

I am from Germany and I bought my G60j with Amazon and was having the same problems as all of You when I started testing my machine.

1. Core I7 going down to multiplier x7 when drawing high power
2. WAW 2 just cutting out... no BOSD, only crash :-(
3. Faulty VGA out (flickering on TFT)

I read all the pages of the first post (puh) and installed inf drivers and new nvidia drivers and *tata* it ran stable on waw2 with my eyes bleeding cause of the game. Shot myself and through the campagne and never had a crash since.

I set my nvidia drivers to use "AA and Anisotrope to Appclication Controled0" (in german: Anwendungsgesteuert) in global settings an set AA and Anisotrope in WAW2... works fine for me now. The only thing that does not work is exteral monitor+game+lid closed... crap!

I have p4g installed, CPU Power on 100/100 and cooling on aktiv (note that setting cooling to something else will overheat the machine cause the fan will only react to the cpu heat but NOT to gpu heat ... bad asus)

Coming on to the Core I7 problem...
it is a thermal power thing thing and it IS a bios thing. When drawing high power the g60j will just flaunt down because of

1. Thermal issues
2. Power issues (not enough)

I believe that there is a cut somewhere in the bios cause our machines GPU just gets to hot (I had 100C whith furmark only stess test!!). That is why the CPU cuts out... not enough power. This could be resolved by Asus in Bios setting (wow, one more setting in this super bios) but would result in most of our machines getting very very hot!



From DC I draw peak 130 Watts from the wall
(AC should be round about 94 Watts).

I have consistent stuttering in SM2 Tests and could not stop that with anything that was supposed in this post or anything I tried!

with p4g installed, newest drivers and display bright or low I get standard readings in 3D mark at about 11000 Points.

Furmark and prime95 still throttled down my machine.

So I asked Google about this and found a german forum on the same issue but with dell studio xps 16 (the little desktop radiator). They had switching problems too and said a problem with the name of "Throttlestop" could solve the issue. NO, it doesn´t for me but mainly they agree that the dell does not tell the core i7 to switch properly. 4x1733 MHZ when processor is at full usage and 4x1600MHZ when CPU and GPU are being used. Does this ring a bell?

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/ThrottleStop.zip

The also say that the Studio XPS 1645 will be discontinued because of heating problems (oh...). Ok, Dell only gave a 90W PSU and in their case Throttlestop and a 130W or higher PSU can solve the problem but that leaves them being alone with the problem. I see similar ducking from ASUS in this case.

All in all I am giving back this crappy machine with the faulty bios an getting myself the G60Vx with a core 2... that should solve my problem with the core i7 permanantly!!!

Thank god I live in Germany where we have a return plan of 14 Days by law!

Can anyone varify Throttlestop not working or does it work for U?

Thanx for Your helpful notes... I will follow this post on my old machine now (Vaio FE21s) and will keep You posted on my new machine. Ok, will not solve the problem, but if it gets to hot too or stuff like that then it could be the case and or the venting that kill your machines!

 

it is proviable, just not under win7. i get a good 10% more on each test with XP on stock settings (10930 3dmarks), and SM3 scores in win7 have been pretty much garbage on everyone's runs. ideally the two graphics tests should score around the same.

if you add even a little additional strain on the system, say, keyboard lights full, removable hdd plugged in and maybe writing, and pre-heat the card with furmark to get the fan spinning right away you should have the same little drops that i showed.

http://download1.msi.com/files/downloads/dvr_exe/Atheros_lan_vx_mb.zip
updated

although games consistently crashing may be attributed to power, the only one that i've actually had crash (not BSoD) is CoD4 on XP. borderlands and the rest play fine even with the oc. on win7, not a single crash. it will either BSoD or nothing.

if you or anyone else are have temp problems, say >95c on stock with furmark, consider sending it in. even on my stock machine i didn't usually go over 93-94 with furmark in a 20c room.

with the closed lid bug and throttlestop, i'll have a go tomorrow.

 

HeadsUp onn the BSOD:
When playing CODMW2 MP mode (single mode was pretty stable) with AA on (x2 or x4 not sure.. didn't matter anyway) I got 4 BSOD's in less then 2 hours of playing.
Then I had an idea of changing the "Processor Power Management" at the "Power Options" from *min state 90% - max state 100% TO *min state 100% - max state 100% , and from that point I haven't got a single BSOD after playing for 2 hours. ( I will continue playing and see if it was only luck..)
**Turbo mode as OFF after changing the states ( Turbo changes the Mhz of the processor as well)
***GPU is set to 550/950/1375 after when CPU's working hard for 20 secs.

 

. sry for double post..

 

Wow, I wasn't hoping for it to be a power-related issue, but it seems like it actually does have something to do with power.

I posted a quick reply talking about how setting CPU to max @ 70% ish stopped giving me BSoD in Borderlands, sudden shutdown in Mirror's Edge & Resident Evil 5.

I think it's not 'not enough power' issue, but more of motherboard can't manage power well issue. Because I had sudden freezes when I 'turned on my cooling pad' , 'connected my USB mouse' , 'connected my EXT-HDD.'
(Turning on Cooling pad while playing game, Connecting USB mouse while in-game. For this issue, my comp didn't even show up a BSoD. I am planning on sending this machine back to ASUS once my Univ Term ends.)

When I was posting here before, I thought this was to my machine only (power management issue) but now it seems like it could be even more general problem.

Did any of you have an issue when you were in-game, and connect / disconnect any USB device that relies on USB power 100%?

Gosh... I thought ASUS received #1 place for Service & Customer Satisfaction, and now we are left with this?

 

Oh that would be weird if the USB and BSOD issues were related because of power somehow :-D

 

Windows need to initialize the drivers .. don't do that while playing game

 

Gotta put these to rest, sorry...

I have had mine set 100% min since day 1, I only use turbo now because I know I still bsod without it in mw2...

I use a powered USB hub so that eliminates this possibility. And I don't disconnect things while playing mw2 and I still get the BSOD.

 

Thalanix thanks. I got XP installed but now I cant boot into my Windows 7 on the first hard drive. What did I do wrong this time.

 

Well i bough a Energy meter witch appears to function properly , here is the comsuption for my G60J :

IDLE -> 52 W

CPU stressed -> 100 W
GPU stressed -> 120 W , the cpu had 1 core at 2.8k

GPU+CPU stressed ->125W ( CPU underclocked )

 

Yikes, that's scary given it only comes with a 120 watt PSU.

I wish companies would quit under doing their power supplies.

 

Yeah no kidding...I wonder if Ken over at gentech has any more of those 150 watt ac adapters available. I'd like to pick up a couple for myself.

 

Yeah...did they sell those? Newegg doesn't have any, Asus.com is out, these might actually need them, and the G72s actually SHIP with 150 watt ones to begin with. I've actually avoided buying a G72 from like Best Buy or something in large part because I can't buy a spare PSU.

 

I gathered he had some in stock because he sent one to someone here to test out with his G51J.....can't remember who it was though because I'm terrible at remembering names.

 

Ryzeki tried out the 150 psu, and still got the BSOD

 

Yeah I knew he got BSOD's after getting the adapter....just saying that I'd like to have an adapter that wasn't cutting it so close that it was pretty much underpowered any time I'm playing a game. The extra 30 watts would be nice to have for peace of mind.

 

I total agree with you Farva....anyone happen to locate any??

 

I just sent a PM to Ken from gentech to see if he had some for sale. I'll let you know what he says....dunno if he had just one for testing purposes or has a little stockpile (hopefully) that he'd be willing to let go.

 

assuming you didn't overwrite your win7 partition, you should be able to edit the C:\boot.ini file to include win7. add a new line,
eg. multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(X)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows 7" /fastdetect /NoExecute=AlwaysOn where X is the number from 0 to 3 of the primary partition (as they appear on the disk).

^which apparently is said not to work, in which case you would need a retail disc to restore the win7 bootloader. plenty of info on google.

is that idle on battery- or AC-like (in advanced power) settings?
if you were using furmark, one core at 2.8 is interesting. i havent been able to get that on either system without dropping consumption elsewhere. either way, 20W for the GPU compared to a 65W TDP (underclocked 10%, so more like 58.5). not even 50% effective.

30 extra W won't help if they never get past the motherboard's distribution. i could be wrong, i'm not sure if ryzeki tested throttling with it.

 

On monday I will get back the 150w PSU (left it at work) and I will test any power-related issues you want. I might also install XP though I don't have a license yet...

I am so busy with college and work... the good thing is this is my last semester lol.

 

Any chance locking the GPU clocks might fix this? any info on that? anyone tested this ?

 

52 W idle without battery on entertainment mode.

I tested again gpu on max , and again 1 core at 2.8 but when it reaches a certain point 125/126 W it goes down to 970 Mhz, the power comsuption goes down , an the core raises again etc...

 

I've been keeping up with this topic for a while now and it seems to me this problem is a mix of hardware and software/firmware seeing as how ppl are getting varied results I personally can play MW2 and MW1 both on maxed settings with no problems the one game I run into this problem is combat arms, its frustrating that there still isnt a fix but has any one looked at this? its likely not a solution but who knows http://www.sevenforums.com/crash-lockup-debug-how/35349-2-int-stop-0x124-what-means-what-try.html

 

Something on PSU

If You are pulling 125 Watts of the wall Your Computer ist not using all of this power (input watts). You have a certain degree of thermal output caused by the PSU in transforming DC into AC so that the real output (output watts) should be something like 70-80% off the input watts (in this case 87,5 up to 100 Watt range)

So that would mean, that Your Watt meter could show up to 150 Watt but You are only using up to 120 Watt.

Regarding this it would show that all the G´s on this thread are not underpowered by the PSU.

I would also go on internal power management. In my bios there was no way to turn on or turn off the C1E state (probably because of the heat it may cause) or Speedstep. C1E off could result in the CPU not switching an hense prove that the C1E usage in bios could be faulty...

Has anyone tried Throttle Stop on their machine?

 

it's the CPU that's throttled, not GPU. it stays at whatever clock you want it to.

with just the mouse plugged in, full brightness, i get the same pattern (winXP).

51W idle would run the battery dry in less than an hour, even at 80% efficient it would drain it in a little under 1h 15.

throttlestop did not work. still clocks down to 900.

 

I was wondering, Does windows XP fix the problem or simply doesn't show the BSoD?

 

@thalanix

Thanks for testting... had the same results... did not work but I found something interesting in this Forum

http://www.xoticpcforums.com/showthread.php?t=5230

In Short: Core I7 cuts out with thermal issues and not power issues (related, but heat first)

I read on notebookjournal.de and other test sites, that the g60j had a reasonably bad thermal issue "in the box". This could be why the gpu has such a high temp (i would think that 80-85c should be reasonable) but we were cutting (me) up to 100c... and the rest of you 90-95c

So, case gets hot and core i7 cuts out and throttle hits to multi 7

This results in BSOD, cause signal between gpu and cpu flaunts

Did anyone try to cool the Your g´s down by case colling (zalman, coolermaster?)

 

I encountered the Bsod on startrek online and after installing the driver on the wiki ( http://www.tweakforce.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4606）no more bsod

 

Weird... Haven't had a bsod for more than three days now - the only thing I did was disable Virtualization Technology and Legacy USB support in BIOS, no idea what this could have to do with the actual problem. Though I'm not really convinced that this solves it all (How can it?), can someone else please test as well?
I don't have a G51j, mine is a PRO62J (similar to M60J), but the problem seems to be the same.

 

Totally off the wall:

Just played Borderlands for a while, and when I was done (no BSODs yet) my power brick was almost too hot to touch. As I remember my high school physics any kind of transformer becomes much less efficient the hotter it gets; could the power issue relate somehow to that? The hotter the brick gets the less actual power it supplies?

 

no BSoD, but throttling is still there (and potentially more as it is better in 3d).

that relates to how it uses turbo boost, not regular clocks. either way, thermal isn't an issue on my machine. GPU goes up to 93c, and drops to 91c on stock clocks (xp, 195.55). was able to keep under 97c on a massive 600/1000/1500 overclock.

with prime95, the CPU stays around 75 with a fairly low fan speed, so intel's TDP of 45 is probably correct. even with the GPU abalze, it doesn't get higher than 55 iirc.

if it was, it wouldn't have the cycling as it does under the right circumstances with furmark.

it may become less efficient, but it will still put out the watts. the throttling occurs even if you start it up on a cold morning.

 

has anyone else tried this?

 

posted that cod4 mp still gets the BSoD a dozen pages back.

 

I did a quick check and didn't see any mention on the couple previous pages, so I thought I'd note that ASUS has released a new BIOS, version 207. I doubt it resolves the BSOD issue, but I guess it's worth a try. I just installed it, but I haven't had a chance to stress my system.

 

no fix on throttling or the BSoD.

 

What happend to the class action lawsuit? We've given ASUS long enough to fix this issue and since they haven't fixed or replaced the defective laptop, I say it's time we take legal action against them.

 

I dont think 3 months qualifies as long enough for a CAL...

 

Agreed. Unfortunately I don't think a law firm would take the case for anything under a year old.

 

Has anyone actually presented our information to ASUS? Have we gotten any official response to our finding? We need documentation that we attempted to let them resolve it, but they didn't.

 

I PM'd Asus CC a while ago according this matter and they decide not to respond us.

 

I am a marine at Camp Lejeune and i can get a lawyer for free from the base. I am just waiting for allurgrocies or thalanix to find for sure what the issue is before i talk to a lawyer.

 

Unfortunately the lawyers in the military won't do cases like this....if you're talking about a class action lawsuit. Basically what they will do for you is defense if needed, but in the majority of cases where you might the the plaintiff they won't touch because they can't. It's not the military's business in these types of things.

I was in the Navy for 13.5 years and I got ripped off on a truck that was sold to me under false advertisement and tried to get legal to help me. They told me, and would very well likely tell you, that all they can do is adivise in a legal case...but they can't go to trial as your representative.

 

interesting...i heard otherwise but i will still check it out just in case.

 

largefarva is correct. They might be able to help you by writing some strongly-worded, legal-sounding letters pleading your case and desired resolution, but they likely wouldn't take you to trial, and they certainly won't take a class-action suit.

Somebody would have to find a lawyer to represent the class, and they'll undoubtedly want some compensation. I really do believe that everyone affected would be better off taking their cases to their local small claims court. You'll have a better chance to present your case (I would strongly reccomend that your laptop be as unstable as possible), and Asus might realize they might have a bit of a problem when they have to respond to even 100 such cases.

If somebody knows more about law, they might chime in, but basically, you're arguing that the g51, a "gaming powerhouse," is not fit for the particular purpose for which it was designed (gaming).

 

and as documentation we need a lot more than just my test outlines and results... i see only groceries semi-partial results. people who register just to post wouldn't exactly count in this case (no offense). we need evidence in the form of screenshots for 3dmark runs, throttling runs, or shots of the watt meter.

 

Maybe have a thread dedicated to guiding each G51J owner to perform a series of useful tests and posting them up as evidence. This way we can provide consistent data that the majority of the G51J owners can match up and even help resolve the issue based on the findings.

 

Just post it to the wiki, we don't need another thread to have to read thru. I've just posted a youtube vid:

<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/i0HvUfLfj4c&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/i0HvUfLfj4c&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width='560' height="340"></embed>

We need more people to run the tests on the wiki: http://g51jbsod.wikia.com/wiki/ASUS_G51J-A1_0x124_BSOD

Post as much detail as you can, like what NVIDIA drivers you are using, what is open in the background, etc. If the instructions aren't clear enough maybe thalanix or I can try and make them more specific.

We still have yet to pinpoint this issue, and tie it into the BSOD. I have a few more ideas but I'm going to have to do some more testing and troubleshooting.

Of course things would be a whole lot easier with some tools to work with the BIOS. Searching for those alone has eaten up a big chunk of the time I've spent on this.

 

Last time I heard from Asus is they think it's the pirated version of games causing the problem and they can not duplicate the problem with retail version, so I asked one of my customers to take a picture of his retail version of Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare 2 and the receipt, I email to Asus on Jan. 11th and got a reply they will notify the headquarter.