Creative Software Debugging Thread

I've been experimenting with the Creative software, and trying to get it to not fail in epic proportions. Gathering insights from others in this forum, it seems that when Bass Boost is enabled, when another application tries to initialize / reinitialize DirectSound, Windows locks up. (At least with the Audigy Advanced HD 1.0 package Asus licensed with Win 7 x64) Starting one's game, then Alt-Tabbing to the Creative Control App and enabling Bass Boost does work, tho I would suppose if the game does any audio changes, it'll likely go b0rk.

Thinking it was an issue with bit/sampling rates, I tried quite a few combos, but to no avail. I was thinking back how Audigy cards have native hardware modes, ala 16/48K. Also, updating to Feb2010 DirectX has no effect.

I haven't tried disabling exclusive mode via the Properties page in Windows 7 for the audio. I remember that was an annoyance with early foobar2000 development.

I'd also like to get some feedback regarding:

1) Software updates - Are there any? Can we get a copy of the X-Fi MB package for x64 and try that? (It should have a 30-day trial) Also, I remember a chap by way of Daniel_K who did a lot of modding of this package. If anyone has a link to some of his work, by all means provide.

2) I've found that you need basically the full application install, minus MediaStuff and WaveStuff to get ALchemy working. Of course, this disables Realtek's EQ page. Any ideas on a workaround?

 

Well, I've had some progress.

1) Disabling exclusive mode for the device still crashes.

2) Going into the Control Application, and enabling CMSS-3D and the Graphical EQ, and enabling Bass Boost resolved the lockup issue. (NWN2 boots without startup crash, and Steam loads)

So apparently Bass Boost requires the EAX software engine to be enabled to function properly with DirectSound. I'll see what I can disable to get it to b0rk again, but it seems we may have a winner here.

As for the occasional seizing of the OS, well, I can't say yet since that will require more time for booting and general usage.

 

Here's a link to some of Daniel_K's work:

SB Audigy ADVANCED MB - Windows 7 Compatibility Up... - Creative Labs

 

Outstanding work here. I've not touched the default load and all is well, however, I have confirmed Bass Boost is NOT enabled so that's probably why I'm not having any problems.

Cheers,

 

It's admirable that you are willing to waste your time getting something pointless to work, and even if you accomplish what you have set out to do, at the end of the day, it's still pointless.

 

I assume you mean it is pointless since you can't tell the difference (I never even knew it was off). Does it truly offer no additional sound fidelity when using the internal laptop speakers? Other posts on this board seem to indicate it and I'm concerned enough to leave the Bass Boost unchecked so i suppose I'll never gain any first-hand knowledge.

Cheers,

 

Considering the amount of feedback this forum has received about Creative causing this/that/that too, and that Bass Boost was a desired feature of many a poster, I would think this would invalidate your smirky opinion.

Anyhoo, the laptop comes with EAX4 support, and dammit, I want it. Heck, I paid for it in the licensing fees. NWN2 sounds so much better with EAX enabled. Plus it irks me when something behaves this badly.

I have a sneaky suspicion the issue involves internal resampling. On Creative-based cards, EAX processing is all done at 16bit/48KHz internally on the hardware, then resampled to the desired output as called by the application or DirectSound. I see no reason why the software-based engine would be different. By enabling CMSS, the EQ, or EAX Environments, you are forcing all audio to get resampled to 16/48 and then resampled back. (Creative states the X-Fi MB package has higher fidelity. Probably because it uses the X-Fi's -136dB resampling algorithm as opposed to the Audigy's -86dB) This forced resampling is probably avoiding whatever conflict the Bass Boost library is having with Windows Mixer. I bet it works just fine on XP.

Or it's conflicting with some sort of DRM, seeing that you get a total system lockup.

< /technical rant >

 

There are some benefits, mostly for gamers, which should be everyone who owns a G73. You can setup CMSS-3D Headphone Mode to do some outstanding HTRF cues and such. It may require to setup Windows in 5.1 Surround mode, and have the soundcard set to Headphone. I'll have to experiment, digging my old bag of Creative card tricks.

Also, don't forget to setup your Front Speakers in Windows to Full Audio (as opposed to satellites)

 

I don't know if this helps, but the this thread: http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus/479344-g73jh-steam-lockup-fix.html, makes reference to the Realtek drivers being updated helped lockup issues with Creative/Steam.
I updated my Realtek drivers but haven't re-installed Creative yet so I don't know???

 

OK, I've confirmed what settings work, and what doesn't.

You have to have one of the EAX Filters on, either an EQ, or CMSS-3D, and they actually have to be doing something. For example, enabling the EQ, and setting it to EQ Flat is the same as disabling the EQ, and will still cause lockups if Bass Boost is enabled at game start. So if you want to use Bass Boost, and want to minimize any audio processing (to keep things clean) then I would suggest an EQ setting with a minimal adjustment of say +/- 0.4dB in the 31Hz band, or CMSS-3D set to to "Minimal" Stereo Widening.

Note: EAX Environments do not qualify.

 

thx for the info, but unfortunately, updating the driver isn't a fix, per se. It fixed a conflict the Realtek drivers had with Steam, but not Creative's conflict, which is with anything that uses DirectSound it seems. (My NWN2 install isn't a Steam game and it still locks up if Creative's applications aren't configured properly.)

 

When I first received my G73JH it locked up constantly with the factory install. I did several clean installs and unaware, each time I put the Creative package back. I've never installed Steam. It was subsequently determined that the Creative software was the root cause of the issue. It was during this time I had a chance to listen to what the Creative package had to offer, and to me the difference in sound fidelity was always worse with Bass Boost enabled and/or adjusting the EQ. Because of the way that the sound is wired in the G73JH, both are pointless with the internal laptop speakers.

I suppose at that point I would be asking myself, if I don't use the Creative software, what is the point in keeping it installed.

 

@Kalim: If the software doesn't offer you any benefits, then, by all means, uninstall it. However, some of us actually do use a feature or two, and desire a functional setup. Ergo, this thread/guide.

Note that I too have a fresh Windows 7 install, and so far the stability has been fine since I worked out this nasty little issue with Bass Boost enabled.

I consider this to be a workaround rather than a fix, and I am still digging to see if any software updates are available.

 

It wasn't meant as a smirky opinion. Do try to take compliments better.

However, what it does do is further validate my belief that when some people see "Bass Boost" they immediately interpret it as better. It's called, "suggestion". In a blind ABC123 comparison I bet they would think differently.

Like I said, "admirable".

 

The question panzer06 asked was about the internal speakers; what benefit are you getting from the internal speakers and the Creative software?

 

let me plug-in my music hdd and run some comparisons....

1) Enabling Full Range Fronts kills Bass Boost, and the sub for that matter.

2) You can flesh out the audio to sound a bit more full, tho these are still internal laptop speakers. Adjust crossover to taste, default of 100Hz seems to work well.

3) You can achieve the similar effects with the Graphical EQ. (Mostly the 110 and 250 Hz bands) the Bass Boost should be more of an even boost. If you find BB to be too stifling/muffling, then you can get greater control using the EQ.

 

I might have found an interesting thread on another fourm regarding the Creative software. Read it here: Windows Vista/7 and hardware acceleration. - Head-Fi.org Community
People state that this might be an issue with the DirectSound hardware acceleration. However since hardware acceleration for Directsound3D was scrapped in DirectX 10 and higher Creative EAX software cant utilize Directsound3D.

Furthermore people say that this issue has been fixed by letting the Creative software convert the sound natively to OpenAL, doing so would fix the Directsound3D problem... But seeing all these issues with the Creative software i highly doubt that this is happening.

Perhaps if someone installs Windows XP on his G73 and test it with the Realtek and Creative software it should work properly because DirectX 9 still has hardware acceleration for Directsound3D... At least thats what i think.

In another post they state that installing Creative ALchemy does the Directsound3D to OpenAL conversion, installing this might fix the EAX issue.
I can't test this out right now because my G73 got an unsolvable GSOD and i had to RMA it.

 

Update: In my experiments, I came across an interesting snag. If I enable just the EQ, I can startup NWN2 no problem. I can also start up Steam by itself no problem, then start Dragon Age (Steam version). However, if Steam is not started, and I go to start Dragon Age directly, letting it call up Steam, then Steam locks up. However, if CMSS-3D is enabled, it doesn't lockup under the same circumstances. F'kn weird.

So my word of advice is to experiment with what will work for you. Apparently I suggest trying with CMSS enabled first, then work backwards disabling whatever you don't want enabled 'til you know what works. Since CMSS-3D works great with headphones for HTRF gaming, I suggest you use that.

Or, disable Bass Boost and use the Graphical EQ, whichever you prefer.

 

Sorry, but I'm not referring to the same issue. I was referring to getting Bass Boost feature to work without seizing one's laptop, not EAX x.0 hardware accelleration.

 

For what it's worth, if I enable CMSS-3D and the EQ, in addition to the Bass Boost, I no longer get a instant lockup when I go into the Ease of Access Center.

I think you may be on to something.

 

Wow Kalim.......not very kind words!

Because its pointless to you, does not mean others are not interested.

If you or anyone else is not interested, simply move on. No need to shoot the guy down!

 

I think Kalim was just being sassy as opposed to being mad. No need to get on his case, since I already sassed him back.

 

I've been Googleing around a bit and found this thread that is also posted on this forum. http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus/479344-g73jh-steam-lockup-fix.html
Someone seems to have fixed the bass boost issue a while ago by installing the drivers in a certain pattern. He doesn't get a lockup when he is accessing the Ease of Access Center so there seems to be a way to get it working i guess.

 

Great catch Chastity! The CMSS-3D workaround works fine for me. I'm on the stock 6.0.1.5978 Realtek drivers. I had never uninstalled the Creative software, I just made sure to never enable bass boost. Now by only enabling CMSS-3D, I can enable bass boost and no lock up when starting Steam or Ease of Access Center.

 

You've inspired me to reinstall the Creative software and try to get it working. Afterwards, I need to test it using my gaming headset to hear if there's a noticeable improvement with CMSS-3D. I find it helps to immerse oneself into the game even further with that virtual surround experience.

Thank you very much, Chastity.

 

Heck yeah, gaming with headphones rocks. Ok, back on topic...is there any way to test the subwoofer without the other speakers making sounds? Like the standard speaker channel test? I uninstalled Creative a while back and had the "hidden" Realtek menu options apeared, and I've never noticed an increase or decrease in bass. When I enable bass with the Creative software and adjusted the bass it just sounded like more or less mids and highs verses more bass; like a real cheap car radio equalizer. Now I'm wondering if my subwoofer is even emitting anything. If I crank music on the G73 and try to put my ear to the subwoofer the other speakers and vibration make it hard to tell.

 

The sound in the G73JH reminds me of a narrow water pipe. There is only so much that can squeeze through, so as you turn up or down the bass, you restrict the flow of the treble. You really notice it when you are listening to music, each time the bass hits, the high-end drops off. When I tried to limit this effect I found that you really couldn't add much bass at all before the compression would start to kick in making it sound horrible and fake.

 

Just download a test tone generator, and start playing test tones from 120hz on down. You'll be able to localize the bass down to about 80hz. After that you'll probably have to put your ear up to the subwoofer. I doubt it can go much below 80hz anyway- it's such a tiny little thing.

 

I'm also looking into an updated install whipped up on the Creative Forum headed up by a chap called Daniel_K. It's an updated Audigy Advanced package for improved Windows 7 compatibility.

I'm also testing out this fun toy I got at BestBuy (and got it 12% off for open box. I'm so demanding.) The Skullcandy Super Pipe iPod dock:



This little 3W / channel unit sports 75mm drivers, and the tube-casing helps enhance bass response. It has AC or 4AA battery operation, and a remote for the iPod. Also sports an Aux-In for non-iPod stuff, like say a G73JH. Also packs nicely in the Targus XL backpack. Let's face it: the embossed skulls accessorize with the G73 very well.

 

@Chastity: Would you, please, post some dimensions/measurements of this thing from BestBuy? It is kind of hard to judge from the picture. And also a link to this thing on bestbuy's website or at least model/brand.

 

You know, with an appropriate strap you could attach that thing to the back of the neck and literally rattle the skull with each boom. LOL

Yeah, that looks like a neat toy and the Targus XL backpack seems like a good choice for portability.

 

I would say about 3" diameter and 12" long. I can't find it on BestBuy's website, but it's odd since it's a BB Only thing in retail.

It would fit behind the G73, and since the speakers are side-firing, being blocked by the screen is ok. Plus I found the keyboard controls work on my RockBox'ed iPod 5G. It certainly has better fidelity than the laptop's speakers, however, it doesn't replace good headphones or say the Bose Sounddock Portable (On sale for a measly $359!) There was a comparable Sony unit there for $199, tho I didn't have the option to try it out.

You can find the SuperPipe at some online retailers (Google is your friend). It's one of the better units of its genre and lists at $99. BTW, the Logitech S315i is an anemic thing, and should die with a wimper. Here's another interesting option:

Sony Sound Dock Seems to be a competitor to the Bose unit. I may just return the SuperPipe and get the Sony.

 

And I did get the Sony. I must say, you do get what you pay for. Has an internal lithium ion battery, which supposedly recharges in a half-hour, and reports to play for 7 hours. (Yeah, right, we'll see) It does have a very nice full range response, some preset EQ settings, sports an iDock, and has an Aux In. Uses a 20V AC adapter for use and charging. Comes with 2 iPod adapters for proper fitting. Also sports a FM antennae.

It's on sale this week at BestBuy for $199.99 (from $249.99), and is a competitor to the Bose SoundDock Portable, but at half the price.

It does fit nicely in a backpack, especially one intended for a G73JH (except for the free one from Targus/Asus) This unit is great for gaming, music, and movies, especially if sharing and you have the 1080p screen.

 

Does it include a neck strap?

 

Uhm, nope, then again, I wouldn't walk with a G73 either.

 

can someone post what settings there using I am not sure what works best....

 

Use any settings you like, as long as CMSS-3D is active.

 

FYI: Realtek 2.49 available. Both audio drivers and HDMI drivers.

 

What does it offer?

 

Additional time spent tweaking your already working system.

Cheers,

 

Just wanted to say thank you for this thread Chastity. Got my Creative up ad running on my first try. No problems yet with the games I play.
Just have CMSS-3D and bass boost on with the newest realtek drivers.
Cheers.

 

Enjoy your fragging

 

Hey! i just got a G73JH-A1 last saturday and right now I am in the process of fixing all the freezing that happens. I succesfully updated the bios to 209 and also found out that I wasn't the only one having the ease of access freeze on me for no apparent reason. I was wondering how the CMSS-3D works... when I enable it and listen to music nothing happens at all... is it supposed to work only in games? there is absolutly no difference when i listen to mp3s, there is no 3d effect.... I have a creative xmod and that has a CMSS-3D mode and the effect is like if you where hearing the sound comming from a stage in front of you where you vary the effect to have a bigger sound stage or a smaller one. With the xmod it worked with any sound comming from the pc.

 

I'm trying to figure out if I can update / upgrade the Creative suite, at least for Windows 7 compatibility, but maybe all the way to the X-Fi suite. Daniel_K has released some packs and toolkits for Dell machines that use the same Audigy HD suite as the G73Jh, but I have not found confirmation that they will work for us. I'd really like to have the suite working correctly because I'm used to having the creative packages (my desktops all run X-Fi cards).

 

I uninstalled my creative when I first got my unit because of the freezes, I downloaded the latest realtek driver and just thought I'd give the creative drivers one more chance. Haven't had any issues since but I did enable cmss.

 

can u guys provide link to the latest creative drivers? i uninstalled my driver and i thot i could just live without the extra bells and whistles.so if this is the fix can u guys link pls

 

It's not available on the support websites due to licensing issues. It is however on the Driver CD you got, unless you got a Best Buy model and got no discs, then you are at the mercy of the others who did get one. If you search this forum, you may find an old link I posted awhile back for it, but I'm not allowed to link it here again.

 

anyone else having probs with CMSS-3D not doing anything to the sound when checked ?

 

Update: Look at what I just managed to accomplish

 

I wouldn't need to because I have an actual license for the DTS/Dolby addon, so I can run the installer. And for those who might want one too, it's only $4 at the Creative Online Store.