GL702VM cons ? maybe alternatives?

GL702VM cons ? maybe alternatives?

I am looking for a 17" laptop with gtx 1060, decent sharp display panel (60Hz is ok), under 7lbs and not more than 1" thick.
Preferred, but optional: IPS, g-sync, TB3, good build quality and feel, 2 x 2.5" HDD bays.
Don't care: sound quality, keyboard flex.
About $1500 for base model and maybe up to $2k with upgrades (PCIe 4x SSD, 32Gb RAM).

So far I was considering Asus GL702VM-DS74 (+upgrades), MSI GS73VR, GP72VR, Sager 817x, HP Oman 17t.

I spent a few evenings reading the forums here and found some negatives (like limited TB3), but nothing really concerning so far.
If you know something bad about GL702VM, can you tell me please? What is it missing?



I also went to local stores (Fry's, Bestbuy and more) to compare different models.
Here is what I think so far:

While looking online, MSI GS73VR was my favorite, but I had concerns about cooling and fan noise. In store I did not like the look of it at all.
Yes, it is very thin, but it looked a bit like my Ikea shoe rack - seems to be made of thin shiny sheet metal that bends pretty easily (areas near usb ports).
I am sorry if I offended current owners.
I played with at least 6 MSI GS and GP laptops in stores and not a single one had a decent display panel. Maybe they just need to be calibrated, but it is concerning. I am not an expert, but MSI pannels looked a bit blurry, some were washed out (low contrast). All gaming Asus and HP laptops had better screens in my opinion.
GP series feels a bit too bulky/thick, but it is probably subjective. I actually like GP plastic more than GS metal.

All Asus GL702 and 502 screens looked good to me. GL702 did not feel exceptionaly bulky or thick. I wish it had a more professional (less gaming) look, but it is not too bad. GL702VM is currently my favorite.

The look and feel of HP Omen is acceptable, but it looks more like a budget laptop. HP display panel seems to be pretty good (similar to Asus).

I do not have access to Sager/Clevo laptops.

Thanks,
Mike

 

Omens run hot and build quality is average - I wouldn't recommend them

Honestly, if you are fine with undervolting and manually tweaking fan speeds a bit - GL702VM is a really solid machine.

FULL DISCLOSURE: I've tweaked my own GL502VT - dropped temps quite nicely - aside from that - I've got nothing to complain about.

GS series are a bit on the fragile side - but they're not as easy to break - though dropping them is a big no-no.

GP - that's entry-level - I personally dislike the cooling solutions in them.

 

Sometimes first impressions need a 2nd go around...

Edit: and sometimes re-reading the OP's post is good too.

The OP wanted a GS73, not a GT73 as I answered below. Hopefully Mike is now interested in a GT73.

You're personal perspective and experience may not be doing the GT73VR first impression justice.

It's not a ceder chest, or an oak desk, it's a light yet sturdy laptop. You'll find few others that are better - and they are likely much heavier.

You mentioned being disappointed with the GS/GP screens, they are all entry level TN panels, and will wash out under strong florescent lighting.

You need to see them in your normal lighting to get a good sense for them - and only view head on - they only look best that way.

If you were looking down a row of them from the side, they were all failing to impress because TN's don't have good side view saturation.

The GT73VR has 2 great screens, 120hz 1080p TN (with better than normal TN side views), and a 60hz 4k IPS which should look great. Did you turn on and view the GT73VR screen, or get turned off on the looks and pass it by altogether?

If you haven't owned such high end laptops before, they may look strangely made, but there are reasons for this, mostly weight savings and cost - but cooling works into this too.

I'd give the GT73VR another chance, and judge it's performance not it's looks. You can get used to the looks, but the performance needs to be there from the start.

The GT73VR has been the best experience out of the box for production 1080 laptops, the AW, Clevo, etc more need tweaking and cooling redo's - re-paste, refitting parts, etc.

The GT73VR with an undervolt on the CPU runs very cool with stock paste and cooling. It can be further improved with re-pasting, but for most people it's unnecessary.

 

The OP is talking about GS73VR, not GT73VR.

 

Thanks for pointing that out.

Then @mikelev 's estimations and observations make sense abd are all correct.

Maybe it's time to consider a jump up to a GT73VR

 

1500$ budget :/

 

Yeah, then Mike's gonna have trouble being happy given his comments about build quality and screens.

Maybe save up some more, and get something nicer, like you seem to want?

GT73VR 120hz 1080p + 1070 6820HK (last gen unlocked CPU) => $1949

MSI 17.3" FHD 120Hz 5ms GT73VR TITAN-017 Intel Core i7 6820HK (2.70 GHz) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 16 GB Memory 128 GB SSD (PCIE Gen3x4)1 TB HDD Windows 10 Home 64-Bit Gaming Laptop VR Ready
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16834154284

GT73VR 120hz 1080p + 1080 6820HK (last gen unlocked CPU) => $2199

MSI GT73VR TITAN PRO-003 Gaming Laptop Intel Core i7 6820HK (2.7 GHz) 16 GB Memory 1 TB HDD 128 GB SSD (PCIE Gen3x4) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 8 GB GDDR5X 17.3" 120Hz 5ms Windows 10 Home 64-Bit VR Ready
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16834154325

It's a bit more for a 7820HK...
https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=50001312 4814&IsNodeId=1&Description=gt73vr&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=36

BTW, a GT72 is a bit of a bump up from GS/GP, it is missing a lot of the features of the GT73, you can get one with a 1060 pretty cheap, but the 1070 costs almost as much as the GT73VR above with 6820HK, which is better than the 7700HQ - you don't want a 6700HQ as long as the 7700HQ is available:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16834154468

You can get 15" laptops cheaper too, but if you are like me the 17.3" is a requirement.

Please let us know what you end up getting

 

Not sure if there are different size chassis within GT series, but the ones I've seen are too big for me. I cannot imagine myself bringing that thing to a meeting
I will not be bringing GL702 to a meeting either, but I view it as a more portable option. I do not really play games much, but I want to be able to play occasionally (probably not the most demanding games) and I like having access to powerful GPU (just in case)

 

They do look big, but it is volume used for cooling, not weight. They are lighter than they look, at least compared to the GT83VR, which is heavier than it looks

The Asus laptops are good too, I've had many of them, they are just a bit more expensive - and better performing as well - but heavier in the same class as the GT73.

You'd likely be happy with the GL702/GL502 as long as you take the time to install XTU and undervolt, there are lots of posts about it in the owners forum, and lots of people that can help you walk through it.

Try picking up a GT73 and a G752, and take a look at both side by side.

The advantage of a larger volume laptop, 17.3" in the full form factor is that there is more room for cooling hardware, so they run cooler and quieter under normal usage, and even under heavy usage they keep the high end GPU's and CPU cool.

Thinner looks nice, it's more compact and maybe lighter too, but they run hot and the fan noise can intrude in the office environment under load.

It takes a while to get a good handle on all the variables, and use gains experience, so I suggest diving in with something, and if you aren't happy with it - return it for store credit and get something else - usually you have 7 - 30 days - sometimes longer - check with the store before buying.

 

Thank you! I don't mind manual tweaking and undervolting.

I think the worst thing about GL702VM is the lack of option to switch to built-in Intel GPU If I understand it correctly, systems with g-sync cannot switch to iGPU.
I don't care about dynamic switching (Optimus, etc), but it would be nice to have GPU selection option in BIOS since 90% of the time I will not need the power of GTX 1060.
I am actually OK with 2-3 hour battery run time, but extra heat and faster power drain kills the battery and causes excessive fan noise.
How hot does your laptop run when you are not playing ? i.e. when doing basic stuff like web serfing or text editing?

Thanks,
Mike

 

At idle, the dGPU will downclock and run decently cool - I doubt heat or noise will be a problem at idle.

 

The GT73VR has a mux switch, you push a button next to the power button while the system is running, and SCM pops up and tells you it's gonna reboot and switch to the other GPU - either from dGPU to iGPU or the other way around.

That way you get the best of both GPU worlds. iGPU when you want to run on battery, and dGPU when on AC for highest performance without Optimus.

Other laptops have the MUX switch too, or they have dGPU only, avoid all the Optimus laptops if you can. Optimus sounds good as an idea, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.

If you haven't heard about the drawbacks of Optimus, here they are briefly:

1) iGPU is always powered on, so it's stealing power and cooling budget from the CPU, it can add 10c under load to the CPU temps.

2) iGPU controls the internal display, so no G-sync, no custom resolution which means no OC'ing the display.

3) All the color and display controls go through the iGPU, so that big expensive dGPU is just gonna sit there without controls or advantages available if the dGPU was directly connected to the display.

4) Not all apps will support switching easily from the iGPU to the dGPU, including *all* Windows OS and apps - they are all forced to use the iGPU for rendering. Same with video rendering apps, except those that offer plugin's that support a dGPU.

5) Strange stutters and glitches have plagued Windows 10 due to Optimus switching randomly back and forth between iGPU and dGPU, causing unpleasant lags in apps and games.

6) Both iGPU and dGPU drivers need to be compatible, there have been situations where an iGPU driver upgrade has resulted in black screen and it's a pain to run through in the dark - or using an external screen - to revert the iGPU driver. You are doubling the chance of an incompatible video driver causing problems.

So, dGPU only or a switchable in BIOS or Windows MUX to switch the display between the iGPU and dGPU is best

 

Yes, I have read the threads where you argue against Optimus.
It looks like now days dynamic GPU switching is much better than 5 years ago, but I am also concerned about added complexity of the hardware design and the need to have 2 video drivers work well with each other. Many potential points of failure!
I currently have an old HP Pavilion dv7t with switchable dGPU/iGPU and for the first 2-3 years it was a nigthmare. HP released some more or less stable drivers only when this dGPU became obsolete It also took them years to release a BIOS update that disables dynamic switching and enables manual.

MUX switch sounds like a nice feature. I wish Asus had it too.

 

Tnanks! That is good to hear.

 

It turns out that even though MUX is cool, I rarely found myself actually needing iGPU battery saving, and often just run on battery without switching.

Without the ability to swap batteries, even iGPU MUX on a large laptop isn't going to last long enough to help in the situations I'd want it. Like on a train, long car trip, international air, so I always scope out the power outlet locations and run plugged in.

Yeah, I know I sound fanatic against Optimus, that's because I went through a huge long drawn out battle helping Asus G750 users transition through a generation of Optimus laptops that were otherwise identical except for moving from dGPU to Optimus.

Those G750's had essentially the same CPU's - similar but speed bumped GPU's, and it was hell for those guys / gals that needed Optimus to get out of the way - overheating their CPU's and/or their apps not supporting Optimus.

That's where undervolting was first really needed, along with custom fan curves, and other hacks to reduce CPU load so the iGPU added heat didn't shoot the CPU into thermal throttling - RTSS FPS limiting, CPU Affinity, etc all were applied in tandem to get things under contol.

The worst part is Asus had done a great job beefing up GPU cooling with Copper and larger surface area heat exchangers, and didn't realize the CPU cooling needed the improvement more, and didn't do anything to reduce the impact of the enabled iGPU.

The good news is Asus went dGPU on their next generation model's, with 1 Optimus model at the lowest end for those that might want a longer lasting battery model.

It's a real heartache when you can't use that new $$$$ top end dGPU with your apps as expected, due to Optimus.

Anyway, sounds like you are going to have fun exploring lots of options, and I look forward to seeing what you get first, and if you change up a few times before ending up with your long term laptop

 

you can't deny how much extra battery life optimus gives you.

3 hours for pascal only, 5+ for optimus

according to hwinfo, the nvidia draws 6-7 watts at idle.

i wish nvidia could lower that idle draw to match Intel igp 2 watts.

 

Some laptop's maybbe like that, the little power draw ones, but the large ones like the GT73VR only increase by about 30-45 minutes on iGPU only, so it's not quite as big of a deal.

Optimus doesn't help, it's running the iGPU only that helps - Optimus mixes dGPU and iGPU potential use on battery and AC, but on AC it just gets in the way of using the dGPU and on battery it leaves the dGPU available and potentially wastes power.

iGPU only or dGPU only /MUX are better than Optimus.

 

What about Asus GL702 with GTX 1070 and 120Hz IPS panel? I saw 15" version today and liked it. Not much bigger than the ones with 1060. It is also within my budget (2k total) if I get 250gb NVMe SSD instead of 500gb. I already have additional 500gb 2.5" SATA SSD that can be used as second drive. Do you think I will have more problems with heat dissipation than with 1060 ?
On my way to search the forum

 

The forums have a lot of good info going back before Pascal, these models started with Maxwell.

The GL502's are the 15" and the GL702 the 17". Plenty of people enjoy the 15", I look for 17.3" or larger.

 

Check this - http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/asus-rog-gl702vs-gtx-1070-kaby-lake-i-own-one.802368/page-8

The guy lists his experiences, which are overall pretty positive.

 

Yes, that sounds pretty good!


A few more questions :

Can I remove the bottom panel (to access HDD, m2 and RAM) without loosing the warranty? Is there a way to tell that I opened the laptop. removed HDD (and put it back), etc? What about repasting? Is there a way to tell if the heatsink has been removed and reinstalled?

 

Not sure about opening the panel but repasting voids warranty. Good news is - Asus stock paste is pretty decent.

 

Hi!

Borrowing the thread instead of starting a new similar one. How hot does the GL702VM run while gaming? Is it so hot that it throttles? I can get one for a good price but I am a bit put off by the forum threads reporting throttling.

Br J

 

im having the exact same dilemma. Apparently the people over at the asus forums say the new bios 305 update lowers temps to mid 80s, and 70ish if you undervolt. It just seems a bit scary/off-putting to buy a brand new laptop that potentially has thermal issues and might even need undervolt. But then again, if one trusts the asus forums; i guess mid 80s for a 1060 gaming laptop is acceptable? anyone got any thoughts?

(i actually started a new thread about this )
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/asus-gl702vm-overheating-issues-safe-to-buy.808012/

 

Mid 80s for a 23mm laptop is fine considering it also has a larger-than-average 74Wh battery. BIOS updates make a huge difference on these models. Going from BIOS 203 to BIOS 300 on my unit reduces thermals by about 10*C

 

On a side note - the Kaby Models actually run decently cool without throttling. (judging by the stress tests on the 502VM on NBC)

 

so you wouldn't be too worried about buying a gl702vm despite thermal reports? i mean, im not saying i wouldn't want to undervolt. It just feels sketchy buying a new laptop for this much money and having to "fix it" right off the bat

 

I've already bought the 502VT (last year's model) 11 months ago. So to answer your question, no, the thermal situation is not terrible. A bit of tweaking and it's perfectly fine. Hell, I even use the older BIOS 203 since that's quieter and runs in the upper 80s under heavy load. No issues thus far.

 

thanks for the input! appreciate it!

 

I wouldn't buy a GL502/702 right now.

Just wait another couple weeks for the GL503/703. It will have a 120hz display and they supposedly fixed the thermal issues.

It's still amazes me why Asus wouldn't have used more than two shared heat pipes. You shouldn't have to undervolt a brand new laptop just so it's thermals run within safe limits.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

To be fair - the default heat numbers are upper 80s which are safe. Also, heatpipe count by itself doesn't mean much - 2 large pipes do more work than 4 small ones (for example, the MSI GE62 has 6 small pipes and run hotter)

 

As a GL502VMK owner, I agree with this.
It's really a shame that Asus never fixed the thermal problems on all GL502/702 and I guess it will still be a problem on the GL503/703 ones, no matter what they say.

Without undervolting my CPU went up to 95°C which is dangerous. Even after undervolting, upper 80°C are not safe at all, as Intel itself declared, "temps at 85°C or above are not recommended". I was hoping to get mid 70°C with undervolting but I see that with the most demanding AAA games it still goes up to 80-83°C after some minutes of gameplay. Compared to many others laptops (MSI, Gigabyte, Alienware) the Asus GL series is probably the hottest. I was hoping for a thermal fix through BIOS but with the 305 version released two days ago the situation is the same, I wonder what exactly they optimize with these BIOS updates. Oh well, I just hope it won't break for the next 4 years.

 

Generally, even 90*C is safe for the silicon of the CPU. What usually goes bad in gaming laptops is the GPU itself or the VRAM. Those should be kept under 84*C ideally. I've never seen a laptop CPU die to heat but I have seen GPUs do so.

As for other machines, it's mostly the same. Gigabyte machines all run in the mid 80s on the higher end models and mid 80s on almost all P series models. The GS63VR also runs in the mid-to-high 80s under Turbo mode (aka no downclocking). AW is the only one that can drop below 75*C under load after modding but at stock it's also about 80*C.

The reason for all of this is the idea that everyone wants paper-thin machines. I miss the days of 30mm tall laptops that ran cooler and quieter.

On a side note: The 120Hz screen does play a role. More fps - more CPU load - more heat.

 

how have they fixed the thermal issues? the 703 chassis looks near identical to the 702?

Ad yes, it feels pretty bad to undervolt/fix a brand new laptop to avoid throttling and burning the components to pieces.

i can't really wait, any other laptops you or anyone else here would recommend? what about:

Acer Predator G9-793

• Intel Core i5-6300HQ
• Nvidia GTX 1060, 6 GB

or a HP Omen 17

• Intel Core i5-6300HQ prosessor
• Nvidia GTX 1060, 6 GB

but is 80-83 really that bad though?
Would you recommend buying something else?

Well personally i was opting for a 120hz. But i guess it's not really a good idea? So you're saying the gl702vm aint really a good idea?


Heck, im just thinking i should scrap any hopes of these high end laptops, and get a 1050ti with a lower end CPU.
Seems like almost all the 1060's run hot.

 

I believe the 703 had its hinges redesigned so they don't block the vents.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

The hinges never blocked the vents on the 702. Only 502 models had that fore extra rigidity and cable space.

 

First part I've already answered. Second one - no, 83*C under max load is under what most gaming laptops get. As long as you're under 90*C on the CPU and under 85*C on the GPU - you won't have issues with heat.

 

It's not dangerous, but it's definitely high. And those temps are with undervolting, something you have to do by your own.
I bought the GL502VM 'cause it was the cheapest in my region. If you find any other laptop that has the same price and hardware of the Asus one then you should probably consider it. The most positive thing of the Asus is that there is no throttling, at least on my machine.

Where did you get those temps? They might run at 80/mid 80s but that's without undervolting for sure, so this is also a thing to consider. Anyway what I am saying is that the CPU temps at 90° up to 95°C (at stock) on the GL502VMK (60Hz screen) are not acceptable for an expensive gaming laptop, when, as you said, many others reach the 80/mid 80's, so overall there might be a 15° to 5°C difference.

The hinges are not a problem on my GL502VMK. I tried with the lid closed + external monitor and I got the same temps. I can't still explain myself where the problem is. If it's a bad airflow then why the GPU has good temps (always below 80°C) while CPU not? And why all the thermal/optimization updates through BIOS didn't fix anything yet?

 

Honestly I have no idea why the CPU has bad thermals but I suspect it may have something to do with only having two shared heat pipes. If you look at most other gaming laptops, they have more than that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Well that explains everything. I never looked inside other laptops.

 

Like I previously said - quantity doesn't mean anything with pipes. The GE62 has 6 pipes and still has worse temps than the 2+1 pipes of the 502. IIRC, the GPU fan and heatsink are actually slightly larger and the GPU itself has more surface area to offload heat thus running cooler overall. The CPU - I have no idea.

On a side note - if you ramp up fan speed to max through the RoG centre you also get a decrease of about 4-5*C