GPU in Best Buy G74?

I remember hearing around here that the G74 you can get at Best Buy has a nerfed GPU. Most of the nerfing they did I'm okay with (12 GB ram to 8 GB, 1.5 TB HDDs to 1.0 TB, 1080p to 900p), and the Best Buy model's price of $1199 is a lot more pleasant than the $1700 of a G74SX-A1. However, I'm curious about just how bad the changes to the GPU would be. Would they take the 560M to the level of a 555M (without the benefits of Optimus, obviously)? Or a 540M? Or worse? I just want a ballpark.

 

If I remember correctly; its a 20GB/s loss in bandwidth. The gimped 560 (again if I am recalling correctly) tends to perform similar to a non-gimped 460.

However, as with all of the G74's, its soldered to the board, so there is near zero chance of upgrade (excluding the possibility of an eGPU).

A friend of mine just recently was asking me about which of the top end ASUS laptops he should go for, I recommended the G73SW, and still do

 

I'm interested in this statistic as well. I'm currently looking at this laptop but I have huge concern for the shader nerf to the 560m as well.

Not to take this off topic, but I'm pretty sure Mitlov would be interested in hearing the answer to this question as well:

Is it true that a maxed g73 model would outdo the g74 best buy model?

 

They didnt nerf any of the shaders/cores, just the bus width, which on these particular Nvidia cards may act as a bottleneck at times, especially when extending displays or playing at higher resolutions.

I would say that a maxed G73 could best that of a BB G74. The GPU will always be the Achilles heel of all G74's due to it being soldered. My (relatively) aging 5870 can best it with ease.

 

Thanks for the input CrappyAlloy. I'm trying to learn as much as I can. I heard that the regular 560 has 192 pixel shaders but the nerfed best buy verision has 128 pixel shaders. (I read that on this website in some thread about the best buy laptop.)

Thanks again for clarifying that a maxed 73 would be better than the BB. Now, the next task is: Where can I find, or rather, where should I start looking to find a maxed G73. I do believe NewEgg stopped distributing those as the G74 model is out.

 

No problem.

Ah, I see what you are confusing. Both the GTX 460 and 560 have 192 CUDA cores in total, but a standard 192 bit BUS WIDTH. All of the BB models cut this bus width to 128bit. Generally the higher the bus width, the better, as it allows for more of the vram to be used simultaneously as the core/engine (the 192 CUDA cores) loads up said VRAM with textures and things, before it gets pushed to your monitor

And just an FYI, you also cannot compare the bus width across ATI/AMD cards and Nvidia cards, as the controllers themselves are usually different. Nvidia tends to favor slower ones, but a higher width. AMD/ATI tend to have a smaller bus width, but compensate with faster memory controllers (this is partly why my 5870m with its 128 bit bus width and 1gb of vram still does so well against the 460/560 etc)

 

Sweet...so it should still out-perform a GT555M, even if it's not up to the standards of a normal 560M? I could definitely live with that for a machine that's 2/3s the price.

The resolution thing is also interesting, because the Best Buy model has a 900p screen instead of the 1080p screen of the SX-A1. Sounds like a game might run as smoothly at native resolution on a Best Buy model as on an SX-A1...it's just that it's doing so at the native 900p instead of the SX-A1's 1080p? In other words, the decrease in max resolution offsets the decrease in GPU performance, keeping FPS in the same ballpark?

I completely understand that reasoning for someone where graphics were priority #1. For someone where gaming performance outweighed all other factors (perhaps Caziban's situation), the G73 sounds like a better bet.

But personally, I was looking for a work-and-play machine with a great keyboard and good build quality that has a superb cooling system (unlike my MBP) and can game "pretty well." I love the G74's keyboard, but I hate the G73's (as in: deal-breaking for me). For the same price, I'd much much rather have a lesser-performing G74. I just wanted to make sure it was good enough to play all the new games I'd want for the next three years, even if it couldn't play them at top graphics settings. Sounds like it is.

Thanks for all the info, CrappyAlloy...+1 rep to you.

 

Yes, as it has more CUDA cores then the 555 (192 vs 144, and is in the same series)

Again, your technically correct, the lower resolution should compensate a bit. But if you ever want to use multiple displays, or an external/internal(upgraded) monitor with higher resolution at some point, you might feel it.

Agreed lol the keyboard on the G74 is much nicer, saw the BB version the other day; I suppose the BB G74 would be a great fit for you then

 

Wait so all G74 GPU's are soldered on or just BB models? Sucks that BB gets nerfed models, I mean they always do but the price is so competitive.

 

Sounds like you've hit two birds with one stone CrappyAlloy! I applaud you! Thanks for the helpful information. Indeed Mitlov is correct. I'm looking for the best performance I can snag at a reasonable price. I use an external keyboard, mouse, and 32' monitor (1920x1080) so, the keyboard on the G73 will not affect me, or any other physical component. I usually treat my gaming laptops as desktops, for the most part, but I play with friends and travel often, so having a... Portable Desktop would be the best option.

 

All of them; I remember pics from Gentech that showed it. Unfortunate indeed

 

So is the GPU a card that is soldered on or is the entire GPU + VRAM soldered onto the motherboard? That would mean ASUS' departure of their own proprietary MXM format and somewhat upgradable. Man looks like I'll be looking for a Sager or older ASUS (G73).

 

I don't even know where to start looking for G73s. Pretty rough results with Google searches haha

 

Personally, I don't use an external monitor (even with my current 15" machine; definitely not with a 17" machine). Nevertheless, good to know, and thanks for the info

 

Tsunade: http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus-gaming-notebook-forum/557761-asus-rog-g74-coming-66.html post 654

Caziban: Newegg does still have them, as well as Amazon, good prices too.

 

Is it only the BB model that have the 128bit bus? is there a way to know (like the 460 1.5gb / 1gb) witch one of the 560m have the 192 and 128 bus width?

 

As far as I know its only BB models; and the only other way to know other then just using a GPU tool, would be the vRAM (usually) 1.5gb/3gb should be the 192bit, 1gb/2gb should be 128bit (it goes in multiples of each other)

 

Lame! Now there is hardly a reason to buy that ASUS G74 line, comparable Sager laptops aren't much more expensive and you can order barebones to save money. Though the ASUS warranty is nice.

 

Although it is only the bus width that has been gimped down decreasing the bandwidth 20gb/s and not the cores it still does not produce the same Pixel fillrate as the 192 bit version with the same clocks, a loss of 8 ROP's. The 560m 128bit version is the same and suffers all around so it really is not a good choice to go for.

Compare the difference in power:

192 bit 460m: ROPs: 24 Pixel Fillrate: 16.2gb/s Texture Fillrate: 20.9gb/s Bandwidth: 60gb/s
128 bit 460m: ROPs: 16 Pixel Fillrate: 10.8gb/s Texture Fillrate: 21.6gb/s Bandwidth: 40Gb/s

 

Wow you are correct
http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus-gaming-notebook-forum/557761-asus-rog-g74-coming-56.html

Wouldnt that mean a literal/physical modification has been made to the Core for it to lose 8 ROP's?

 

Haven't got a clue just dont see how hacking off some Vram changing the bus width and punishing the core can be classified as a reasonable reason for doing so. Or how it saves them money. There is a picture on the forum somewhere of the sections missing Vram so its clear it was a 192bit chip that has been modded.

I still stand by what I said a while back that the Chips that fail binning or have faulty Vram modules etc are modified and shipped off to Best Buy for cheap. It would make sense why it is being done and sold so cheap.

 

All that stuff is soldered to purposefully modifying XX motherboard for Best Buy and YY for Newegg makes no sense. Only explanation that remotely makes any sense is lower binned chips/cores/defective cores.

 

Nearly every single stat on the Best Buy model is reduced performance from the G74SX-A1. I seriously doubt that they're doing it to get rid of defective parts; it's just a scaled-back version for two-thirds the price ($1200 instead of $1750).

Other examples of nerfing in the Best Buy G74:
900p screen instead of 1080p
8 GB ram instead of 12 GB
dual 500 GB HDDs instead of dual 750 GB HDDs
1.0 megapixel webcam instead of 2.0 megapixel

Yes, it's a nerfed model. But when the price is nerfed too--by 33%--I think that's fair.

Edit: and even if the nerfed GPU isn't any cheaper to build, they may have reduced it (along with everything else) so that G74SX-A1 vendors could say it was "better in every way" to justify the significantly-higher price tag.

 

Mitlov: True, but either way, it will perform better then the GT555 you were worried about earlier.

Anyways, after Dallers brought it to my attention that there was a reduction in ROP's, I did a little more research on them to see what exactly their purpose is in the entire process. They essentially take pixels from the pixel pipelines and finalize them, give them a depth value; the ROP's therefore are what have great influence on the pixel fillrate; Lower numbers of ROP's = (generally) a lower pixel fillrate, and its the pixel fillrate which generally determines what resolutions (along with the total bandwidth/throughput of course) the card can put out to effectively/efficiently. So with that being said, the lower res screen on the BB model should still compensate.

Dallers: I know we cant really compare directly between our ATI's and these Nvidia cards, but we too only have 16 ROP's, the same as the gimped 460/560...and only maintain the very slightest lead in pixel fillrate against the gimped versions. Even you have the 1600x900 screen correct? I know, from our POV, I am fighting a losing battle lol but just thought I would chime in with what little more I learned last night.

 

I learn so frickin' much from hanging out on this forum. Once again, great post.

The Best Buy G74 may be "nerfed" compared to the SX-A1, but it still outperforms an XPS 17 or an Alienware M14x, all of which are as expensive or more expensive when similarly equipped. Sounds like a fantastic package for $1200.

 

Well RAM and HDD's aren't a big factor for power users, but normal people will see that. 900p screen again can be upgraded. Biggest thing for me is the discreet card, and the fact that ASUS has turned away from MXM or their own form of it just irritates me as Acer has done the same after Core 2. Only leaves Alienware, Clevo based notebook resellers, and MSI that have removable/upgradable MXM cards.

 

here's gpu-z capture from my BB G74. ' 3'

 

What temps you guys get with this laptop when playing games for a long time.

 

Hmm yes, Its a shame were loosing the MXM boards, but really how many will upgrade that MXM board?? Sure its a nice feeling in your head to know you "can" upgrade to a 580m from the 560m or even to a 485m. But really when you compare the cost of the new MXM board $400~$550. Selling your notebook and getting the next baseline GPU that should be more powerful in a years time. Works out cheaper and you get a new notebook with maybe a new gen CPU or more USB3 ports etc etc

Good think about a Sager 81xx is you can upgrade or repaste that CPU and GPU with ease!

Anyway the only time I ever upgrade my MXM capable unit was my old Dell 17 "2003 model" when I upgraded from a 5800 Go to 6600 Ultra Nvidia back in the day. I'm talking 5 years ago and it left me rather disappointed. Specially looking at the cost if I waited It would have been cheaper to get a new unit.

Normally i sell my main system every 12-14 months to recoup 60+% of its cost and put that cash towards a new unit. That way I dont loose as much

 

Anyone try to overclock their GPU's yet 2gb or 3gb? I did a little overclocking today on the 2gb bestbuy GPU and so far im sitting at 850/1700/1310 and the average temp using furmark is at 63c. Should I set the memory clock higher? or does it not really matter. This was my first attempt at overclocking and I'm using EVGA precision and Furmark v1.9.1. From the temp. readings I feel like I could overclock the GPU much higher. Feedback/Critiques would be much appreciated.

 

The 560m GPU clock should clock up over 900Mhz I've seen so try a little more . 63c in furmark is crazy low. I hit about 89c after 10-15minutes, but about 86 in games like crysis2. Either the 560m is waaaay cooler GPU or the cooling system in that g74sx is really good!!

 

Here's Chastity's performance review. Stock and overclocked benches. Note the max temp with furmark, seems the 560m does run cooler.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus-gaming-notebook-forum/595264-performance-preview-g74sx-3de.html

 

So how about cpu's temps after you run some benchmarks or play some games?