Temps still high after re-paste

Hello,

Let me begin by stating I have a bbuy version of the Asus G73JH laptop. I bought the laptop July 10, of 2010, so I've just missed the one-year warranty deadline. I have some know-how with computers, but this was my first real gaming laptop. I started to notice very hot temperatures (referring to my GPU) when I would play video-games. The laptop would even idle hot: there were times when coming back from work I would log-in to see 75-80 degrees celcius just idling!

It took some courage, but I finally decided to perform the GPU thermal re-paste.The dis-assembly itself went smoothly, (thanks to you guys and the noob guide) but when I began to reassemble the laptop the bottle of rubbing alcohol I used to clean off the GPU spilled DIRECTLY onto the HDD. I was so disappointed in myself - I was so focused on the tedious tasks involved with reassembly that I didn't even notice the cap was still off the lid! Anyway, I attempted to air the HDD out, but I knew it was bad. After letting it sit for a few hours under a lamp I decided to take my chances. In hindsight, I probably should've waited a few days before I attempted to power on, but I was eager to see if my first paste job was successful or not. The first boot attempt was a success, that is, I got to the log-in screen, sound and everything. But once I attempted to log-in, I knew something was wrong. The HDD is fried, you can see the burn marks on the PCB board. So, not only do I not know if the GPU re-paste was completely successful, but I lost my HDD and all of it's contents on-top of it.

To resolve the issue I went out to bb today and picked up the Seagate Momentus XT hybrid HDD. I removed the old HDD, replaced it, and then booted up using the recovery disks I had made when I first turned on my ASUS last July. So herein lies the problem: the disks seem to be failing, the AI recovery process will work, and I'll receive the normal prompts, but randomly throughout (what I believe is the OS install, disk 1) the installation will stall and eventually the optic drive will open triggering error code -3. I guess my question is, is the recovery failing because of a faulty install of the recovery restore point, or did I not correctly reassemble the computer which is resulting in the MADNESS!?! I honestly believe I put everything back together in its working order, I took my time, and took pictures before/after during each step for to be sure. I don't have the F9 failsafe because of the fried hard drive, I've been up all night trying to resolve this. Should I just have it RMA'd, anyone have any idea's of what this could cost me? I mean, I already replaced the HDD. I am willing to perform another operation on the laptop.

Also, is there anyway I can get a W7 disk from ASUS and bypass the AI Recovery Restore altogether? I am willing to go out and buy another copy of W7 if you guys think it'll help resolve the problem. I really do appreciate any assistance anyone can offer me, I can honestly say this problem is beyond my know-how. The worst thing is, I don't even know how to trouble-shoot this problem. Thanks again.

 

Torpspot, Sorry to hear that .
Do not buy WIn 7 - you already own a license, all you need is the media- IT can be downloaded from here (both thanks to Chastity)
http://pcaudio.ath.cx/
or
G73 Series Driver and Application Reference

Then just use the code on the sticker attached to the bottom of the computer.
You can also DL the driver and app disk , once win 7 is loaded pop it in and you can load all the needed driver - video , audio, etc
That way you will end up with a clean install.
AI recovery program - I have seen more than on person who burned the disks but could not restore from them. No need to RAM yet.
This guide may come in handy also http://forum.notebookreview.com/asu...lk-through-doing-clean-windows-7-install.html

 

YEOO,

Sytem: Asus G73JH BBuy Version. *Past Warranty*

I re-applied GPU paste, followed the NOOB-GUIDE exactly. I even took the opportunity and upgraded the HDD (threw a Momentus XT in this bad-boy). My question is, why are my idle temps still around 70 degrees celcius after a re-paste? To be honest, I thought my GPU fan was the culprit behind my high temps, does this prove my initial suspicion? Every fan gaget + tool I've downloaded has never had a reading on the fan speed, it's always 0%. I understand you can't manipulate the fan speed with mobile cards, but is it normal to read at 0%?

I am willing to re-open the case and replace the fan, but will i need a whole new card? Can a computer-repair store do this, will it cost a fortune? I appreciate any assistance or feedback. Thanks

 

Hi, Can you post a screenshot of your HWINFO sensors please.

Also how did you conduct the repaste what paste and method? Did you make sure that you only used a small amount 3mm pea amount etc?

The main quick fix is to make sure that the heatsink is not clogged with dust and dirt and you can clear this when dissassembling or using compressed air.

The Fan speed will register its RPM in HWINFO but not the %

 

Can you hear your fan spinning? Open the bottom and turn the computer on. It should run, especially when stressed. If it still doesn't spin, then your fan is gone.

If your fan works, take a picture of the CPU and GPU dies when you lift up the heatsink. Putting too much or too little thermal paste will make your temps not optimal.

 

These may have been the first things you did; but did you check the fans with HwInfo32 and blow out the vents with a can of air?

EDIT: Just noticed you double posted
A mod should close this, and the discussion should be kept in the other thread you posted in, the JH GPU temps thread in the gamers section

 

after doing this mod too many times and doing it to peoples old and new notebooks too many times the conclusion i draw is that thermal paste reaplication on a system with clean radiators does nothing 98 out of 100 times. I get attacked on this forum for saying this every time. as if this forum is owned by the thermal paste manufacturers. I have done it over the years well over a thousands times to notebook that are new and old (overheating from a clogged radiator). Every time i observe re-ap actually work i feel like having a party. feel free to attack me for spilling the truth about thermal paste

 

Because your opinion is contrary to people's experience. Sure, you have a different experience than everyone else. But that's why people think you're wrong.

 

Like sgogeta4 said it could be the fan, this is the temperature it suppose to be after repaste:

 

do this mod 1000 times to 1000 brand new g73
turn on msaa to full speed
run furmark for 10 min
you might get 2 out of 100 systems that average lower then 85 celcius on the vga core in furmark on the stock vga driver that ships with it. Updating the vga driver may also change the core temps.
Now Take a temp meter to the gpu block. The same meter. The same notebook the same test. the same environment. your results will defy everything you think you know about thermal paste and its effect on core temps.

 

You might also want to try a vBios flash. Ages ago when I did mine Ziddy had a sweet vBios called Ziddys vBios v3. That's what I'm still using now. Just did a repaste and dropped my temps by 20c. When I saw how the thermal paste was applied from the factory I was appalled.

BTW, @Geared2play.com, I did two identical best buy models at the same time. My friend brought his over and I repasted the two g73jh's in a couple of hours. His TIM application looked worse than mine. Unfortunately he is deployed on a naval submarine for training right now so I can't really test his temps, but before he left he said his frequent gpu lockups stopped.

 

If there is sufficient paste and the radiator is clean then I would agree, a repaste with the same or even different thermal paste would not yield significant results. But often there is a poor paste job previously or the radiator is dirty as hell, so people notice a significant benefit from reapplication.

 

I think it's funny that Geared2play accuses this forum of being moderated by the thermal paste manufacturers. Because from the statement made, I would almost accuse Geared2play of being from Asus RMA just trying to defend their paste jobs. If Arctic MX-4 and Shin Etsu did not have mountains of data supporting their compounds' superiority to stock paste and pads, we would not all spend the $13-16 a tube that they charge. I mean, we're not morons and we definitely know how to run a temp probe app and read the results.

That aside, OP I would guess you're running into the same problem about half the people who have repasted seem to have. If you put the paste on too thick and don't put the heatsink down tight enough, it won't work as well.

A trick I have only seen mentioned here a couple of times is prepping the heatsink surface itself by forcing paste into the tiny cracks and divots in the metal. I'll describe this in detail real quick (sorry for those of you who know all about this and may be reading):

1. Apply a small dab (half as much as you would use for chip itself) on the surface of the heatsink where it will touch the core.
2. Take an old credit card (clean!) and vigorously buff the paste into the metal with it's edge.
3. Scrape off all excess (leaving nothing but what looks like a light film of paste).
4. Go through the normal process of pasting your core and attach the heatsink. Remember to make the application as thin as possible while being uniform.

Most people are not aware that thermal paste works best to fill in the micro-imperfections in the surface of chip and heatsink. You aren't trying to make an immersed connection like electrician's conductive putty, but rather eliminate small air pockets in the two surfaces which cause resistance.

 

@BTOTech: I <3 you death and all, but I thought this was a beaten issue. People with issues of a poor paste job, or from deteriorated TIM see the benefits of redoing the paste. (I certainly did, as well as others who had a similar problem) If my temps were cooler, then I never would have touched it. But, it wasn't, so I did, and I did see improvements. Big ones in fact.

But that's because there was a problem.

And you agreed with me in our PM discussion on the matter. So if you don't mind, just sit back and let us have our fun with experimentation. kthxbai

 

Here's the ss of my temps.

it shows that my fan is functional, should re-paste and clean out?

 

assuming those are your idle temps, yeah go ahead and blow them out.

 

That's because the people here are thoroughly entrenched in their love of the expensive snake oil pastes and ignore the empirical evidence that's out there showing how small the difference is between pastes.

The problems with the G73 GPU cooling are not related to paste. What I've seen are:

1) the RAM pads don't compress well under the limited pressure of the spring loaded screws and this ends up preventing good GPU die contact.
2) not much excess cooling capacity anyway - it needs more heatsink at the end with airflow. It's on the edge of adequate.

They built a cheap heatsink with a poor mounting design and that's the real issue here. Quality went out the window.

If someone sees a big improvement after "repasting" it's most likely because they managed to squish those pads down a bit better and they were particularly bad in their case.

 

Inproper application of the heatpads can be a issue, but I don't care for the dry crusty stuff they call thermal paste... these issues were clearly addressed in later models as the temperature difference is significant.

 

The "dry crusty stuff" is a phase change thermal material (a wax basically). It softens with temp and works very well. They use it because it is very stable and doesn't flow out or break down. It is very common.
http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/26951.pdf
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_6950_1_GB/3.html

So no, it's not bad paste. It's what the engineers picked for the application. As you can see, AMD prefers it.

Again, if you saw an improvement after "repasting" it was because you managed to increase GPU contact, probably by compressing the pads more. Repeated assembly of the heatsink will probably do this. But if you see people who don't get results it says their pads were probably not a problem and they have a hotter GPU and the heatsink is already at its limit. Older system BIOSs also run the fans slower so run hotter.

 

I dont care what anyone says compound makes a difference of all the compounds I have tried ICD and Shin etsu so far have smashed the others out of the water.

It is very difficult to test and compare thermal compound because it is impossible to get the exact same application, spread and conductivity to the heatsink with each application.

Techs and likewise will argue against repasting and such along with claiming different thermal compounds make a minimal to no difference and on a large scale things they probably dont, but when you own a JH the difference is that of upto 20oC in some cases so please do not tell me it does not make a difference because it does proven and guaranteed by people on this forum who literally wiped off the crap applied a blob of ICD and reseated the heatsink with the same stock pads and dropped from 107oC to 90oC or less in an instant. I began at 105oC and repasted 7 times with a variety of compounds including AS5 and never saw below 90oC with the stock pads and screws tightened the same. Since using ICD I have not seen above 80oC and since using 0.5mm I only required a minimal amount of compound maybe 2mm if that and I rarely see temps above 70oC at extreme burn.

Claiming otherwise is just foolish because your too ignorant to test and see for yourself and you continue to apply a sticky form of washing up powder to a GPU and wonder why every laptop gets RMA'd and then have to change GPU supplier because you can't understand why the temps are so high. Idiots.

There are several ways of decreasing your temps cleaning the vents, thinner pads, but I still believe and stand by that fact that using a good TIM will produce better results.

Make your own decision about ICD but do not moan that your not seeing the results from your repaste just because people say ICD wont make a difference, go see for yourself.

 

I don't understand why people cannot grasp the idea that in the case of the 5870M, there was some substandard application of TIM, or just bad TIM used.

In my case, I discovered:

1) One of my mount screws was not tightened properly
2) The TIM had degraded, and there was obvious air pockets, probably from not being tight on one corner.
3) The TIM had flowed and collected to one side of the GPU.

All of this was documented and pictures taken. Furmark runs reached 102C MemIO very quickly and if left to go for over 15 min, would shut down from thermal protection on stock clocks.

After just redoing the paste, and remounting the heatsink, I have the cool monster everyone has come to luv. MemIO is now equal to the other temps, and temps run cool. Furmark hits about 76-77C, with a max of 80C with overclocks.

The thick viscosity of ICD7 is a great match for the heatsinks that Asus provided, allowing for a much easier opportunity to achieve an optimal bond with the gpu and heatsink. AS5 users have shown consistantly higher temps, and I believe it is because the AS5 thins out too much when warmed with these heatsinks.

So, in summary, it's just the right paste with the right characteristics for these somewhat less-than-optimal heatsinks we are given. I'm sure that if the heatsink was lapped properly, the AS5 scores would drop. As an example, I changed motherboards on my desktop, and repasted using ICD7 instead of AS5 this time. CPU temps dropped about 1C on average, which is a marginal improvement at best.

 

I think its the typical engineer's brain that concludes something like that. They did the experiment once a long time ago and since everything in their world is black and white, nothing has changed since then.

My repaste with ICD7 was highly successful. 105-80c

 

ICD was a pain to work with (used to thinner stuff), but as Chas said, it's really a good choice for wonky heat sinks.

As for the cooling capacities? *shrugs*

But that's not why so many people champion ICD here. It's not better for cooling (or worse). It's just better FOR THE JOB.

 

Chastity explains it well. A big problem with the heatsink is that the core is often not in full contact with the heatsink because of the thermal pads. This without a doubt will cause a big temperature increase in the GPU. The thermal conductivity of any paste drops like a rock if there's more than the tiniest gap. It is only meant to fill in surface imperfections.

When you repaste, as you call it, it is very likely the pads end up thinner than originally. They stretch very easily. Repeated compression of them probably makes them thinner too. If core contact was subpar before and you improve it, there will be a very obvious temperature reduction.

There is the risk of the pads becoming too thin though if you stretch them excessively. They could lose contact between RAM and heatsinks. I'm not sure what this might mean for the RAM whose temp you can't measure.

You can't just automatically blame the phase change TIM they used because it is not the problem. The crap heatsink design is the problem.

 

The biggest problem is not the heatsink or the pads or the paste its the plank that conducts the repaste at Asus. Simple.

If there was a competition to see who could apply thermal compound and manage to miss as much of the die as possible, easy winners.