[NW] Upgrade the C90S to a 9600M GT 512MB DDR3 [FIXED!]

Okay, I attached the file to a post on the Nibitor forums so hopefully they can add support for it in the next release.

In the meantime, I'll see if there is anyway to properly change the settings with the current Nibitor version. Don't worry, it WILL work. You might just have to sit tight for a little while.

EDIT:

By the way, the card not running at full speeds is expected. The 9600 and 9650 both did the same thing until the performance tables were edited correctly (although I never did get around to fixing the 9650). So don't freak out and don't do anything crazy just yet : )

PS: If anyone can post up the Zepto 9650M GT bios file I'll fix the performance tables on that just so we have it as an "archive" or something.

 

there is no proper asus drivers for this one, rofl. this is an experiment, we're going beyond what asus planned for this laptop. and i tried a few different drivers and they all yield the same result. nibitor won't accept that bios under any of them. tried on both win xp and win 7. surprisingly, win 7 yields much better performance compared to win xp. that comes as a shock. microsoft did not lie!
and don't worry about me trying dangerous stuff. even crippled like this, it's already much better than the 8600m gt and very close to the 9600m gt's stock performance. i'm eager to find out more about this card. it's a beast. oh and i tried prototype...
holy hell. no lag at all with everything set to high with 4x multisampling at 1680x1050

 

Very impressive! Can't wait till you have that baby running at full speed. Could you do a 3Dmark06 test with it. Would be interesting to see what score you get with the clocks crippled!

 

hmm that's great news...
I'm just so desperate as Zepto doesn't respond to me any more... I emailed, called... and nothing seems to happen any more

I guess it's because they don't want to ship it over to europe... its just so annoying... i mean i really want to buy sth, price doesnt even matter so much but still it's not possible. Hell, id even pay 100$ more if they would just send it...

 

zepto is based in europe too
there should be a website for your country

 

i don't have 3dmarks06 and frankly i aint very interested in downloading the entire thing. is there a lite version or something similar i could use?
*edit* going to try virtualmark.

 

ah virtualmarks can't give me a score. going to download 3dmarks 06 then...didn't want to but i guess i'm the only one that can test it, huh?

 

Yeah it is quite large I don't have it either I managed 5000 points with my current 8600M GT DDR2 and E6600 now I have the Q9650 installed I can't be arsed to downlload it again either hehe. Still I think you will be needing it later once you have that baby working full speed as we all will want to know if you can beat 9800xpv current C90S record of 6700+ points!

 

well ran 3dmarks with the crippled card, and outch...didn't expect that...
2498.
i don't get it, visually i see improvements over my previous cards, how come my score is so low?

 

@9800xpv
Hey 9800xpv,

Thank you for your words.
I’m working hard on any idea I’ve mentioned in my posts here! Soon I’ll show you real effective thermal solutions for C90S including BIOS mod. When I’m done I’ll open a new thread “C90S Unleashed” on NBR with step by step pictured guide, any hardware & software tools and techniques you need to do it yourself in home.

C90S is a low powered desktop put in the shape of a laptop, which is the source of thermal and power consumption problems. To deal with the thermal problem we need to understand physical nature of processes (physics) and mathematics to make some calculations. The cooling design is based on dynamic air flow. It’s obvious why. From thermal point of view constant air flow is a better solution. Copper’s CPU & GPU heatsinks, better copper’s heatpipes are good decisions in right direction. Some of you make a mistake when are bending C90S heatpipes (they have a specific internal structure) because in that way you are reducing capacity of heat transfer. Inappropriate using of heatpipes is one of the weaknesses in C90S thermal design. To stick permanently two copper pieces together use “Arctic Alumina Premium Ceramic Thermal Adhesive” instead soldering. The die temperature of Video DDR chips in C90S is 105ºC.

Achieved Goals (CPU X6800 2.91GHz):
1) GPU Universal Copper Heatsink for NVidia 8600M/9600M & ATI HD3650/HD4650
2) C90S + NVidia 9600M (Thanks to NightWalker)
3) C90S + ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650
*8600M Idle mode temperature 54ºC with stock “heatsink”, ambient 25ºC, Fans ~37 dB-A, without any mod of the C90S case

Current Goals (CPU E7500):
1) In full load with stock settings GPU temperature not more than 70ºC, ambient temperature of 25ºC, air flow produced only from C90S’s fans and Noise 21dB-A
2) C90S + ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650
3) WEB site dedicated on C90S (almost done)

A picture of GPU heatsink with HD3650 in C90S (3008x2000, 2.62MB)



Question: Do you know why you have overclocking tools and no one for modding system BIOS?

 

Did you expect freezes during battery mode with your cards?
I do with 9600m GT
Thank you

 

@phoenon
Hey Phoenon,

The answer is no. I haven’t any freezes or restarts on battery mode. My system is working perfectly with any network interface and attached peripherals. I’m with HD3650 from the picture in previous post, XPpro 32-bits, SP3 and all updates to the moment, without any kind of installed overclocking tools or antivirus. I know what you are talking about – it’s another C90S’s weakness related to Power Management. Unfortunately this is a design problem on hardware level and the solution is another laptop. You can bypass the problem if do next:
1) Uninstall TurboGear – overclocking utility from Asus which is the cause for system freezing in XP. Some applications may fail to start (AcrobarReader in my case) on battery mode but your system will never freeze.
2) Disable SpeedStep in BIOS settings on the Setup
If after that your system freezing again or some applications didn’t start, the problem is wrong software configuration. What exactly is wrong it's difficult to discover.

 

A bios mod would be awesome Angel. Maybe we can then control the fans. Hopefully you would be able to help me out with the C90P also if I were to send you the bios to play with. Would be a godsend as the Q9650 when OCed puts out quite a bit of heat

 

i tried calling nvidia tech support and explained my issue, being specific as to the fact that the card itself is not defective, and that it's probably my laptop that can't read the proper speeds upon bootup.

they told me to try nvidia system tools, which could possibly force the card to use it's default speed. the guy didn't seem too sure of himself, however i don't see the harm in trying. if this fails, i'll call asus and ask for a possible explanation as to why we need to flash our cards like this. who knows? maybe a computer BIOS edit is really the solution. i somehow doubt that the video cards are to blame.

 

Well I'm still expecting freezes, but it's strange, I expect them on W7 x64 and with the WifiWay (linux based)...
any ideas?'
thank you
ps since I installed my E7500 I uninstalled TurboGear. No RMclock and no clockgen on startup...

 

Wow you guys do some impressive work on these systems. nightwalker hows about you get your hands on a hd 4670 for that cpu you have there.

 

tried what nvidia told me, of course that didn't work. although on a working 8600 i suppose it's an interesting program. too bad i don't have mine anymore.

i tried calling asus. and damn, they were downright hostile. they refused to give me any support or even a bios dump of the c90, just because i installed a video card that was not meant for the c90s. can you believe this? not only does Asus lie about video card upgrades for our model, but when we ask directly about an upgrade we did without their help, they get mad about it saying we're not allowed to do this??? (modifying the bios that is.)

 

Atvaark,

I know it must be killing you to wait right now, but don't worry the card will run at full speed after the performance tables get edited correctly.

It doesn't appear that we can edit the tables correctly with the current version of Nibitor under any circumstances. For now it looks like you have to wait until Mavke (Nibitor author) adds support for the GT130M in his program. I have been e-mailing him to see if there is another way to do what we need.

Hold tight buddy, it might take a little while but we'll get that card at full speed soon.

 

I thought I read somewhere before that it was possible to get a unsupported card to work by somehow telling nibitor that the card was a previous version like a 9600m gt. I'll have to dig around to see if I can find the post that talked about it.

 

Currently, trying to do this with the GT 130M sends the values completely out of whack. For example it lists the core clock at 23000! Since the original values are read incorrectly any subsequent changes and flashes to the card would almost certainly result in bricking it. Thanks for the help though.

Here's a question... Are there any standard bios editor programs that can also read .rom or .bin NVIDIA files? There are only a few lines that need to be changed so if we can find another program that can open the file and read it correctly I can use that to change the values.

However, the safest option is to wait for the newest Nibitor release.

 

i know nightwalker. but for some reason, i can't believe that the problem lies within the nvidia cards. i'm positive the reason why they're out of whack on the c90 is because of the c90 itself. changing the clocks in the video card's bios is a good solution, yes, but i'm sure the issue can be resolved by tweaking something on the c90 itself...nibitor works with nvidia cards, but what happens when we slap an ati card in there? i know nibitor is nvidia only...and does ati cards suffer the same issue? I'm sure this can be solved by asus doing an effort on their part and building another firmware for the c90's bios. i don't have the vast knowledge you all have, but i still want to help, so I'm doing everything i can to find solutions.

oh and on another note, that program nvidia made me download is kind of neat. i really love the system monitor. gives me updates on everything i'd want on my system. not just video card.

 

>.> The only other solution I could think of would be to use a overclocking program like ati tool or rivatuner and see if you can software overclock it to the stock gaming clocks. That might actually not be possible since the gaming clocks also use a higher voltage setting and it isn't possible to overvolt via software for laptop cards yet. I would just wait for nibitor to update, I'm sure he will do it pretty quickly.

 

Hi,
How do I update the BIOS to the latest 1002.ROM version from the Asus website? Is this the best bios update out there?
I am clueless as how to do this, I get how to do an image if the file is .iso, etc
but not sure how with the ROM files.
Thanks!

Update: I drilled about 18, 5/16" in the bottom case underneath the video card to let the heat escape from the heatsink and noticed core GPU temps drop by an average of 10degC. Highly recommended for all 8600GT cards.

 

@ King of Interns
Hey King of Interns,

I would like to help you, but some things are out of my abilities. At your first question the answer is - no. Don’t be sorry about that because BIOS fans control has two big drawbacks:
1) Sensors dependent
2) Speed of temperature changing
In a case that you still want BIOS fans control I’ll give you an explanation how to do that. It’s not a simple task and it’s a time consuming process.

Regarding Q9650 – yes, if it’s possible I’ll do that after fulfillment of my agenda from my previous post.


@phoenon
Hey Phoenon,

Thank you for the information. I’ll tell you how to track the problem and how to fix it if is possible. Before I start here is some information about my system. I’m using Solaris 10 and Fedora 10 as servers more than year without any problems. I have 3 simultaneously working network adapters – 1 wireless and 2 wired 1 Gbits. No problems on battery mode. The same is for one of the most friendly live linux distributions - Knoppix. Most of the linux users don’t know how to configure correctly their wifi and that’s why they have wifi connection problems. First and most important question -- is the problem is hardware related? To find out the answer please follow the next:
1) Boot from Knoppix 6.0.1 CD ( Download and burn the image KNOPPIX_V6.0.1CD-2009-02-08-EN.iso on CD )
2) In the system tray enable wifi network and connect to your home wifi
3) Pull out your power cord
4) Use the system
At this stage if you have some problem this mean that something is wrong with your hardware. If everything is OK then restart the system and repeat the procedure. If all works the problem is software related. To find out what exactly is wrong you must check “Windows Systems Event Log” for errors and “Device Manager” for problem devices.

 

Atvaark,

You are correct regarding the bios being the issue with the clock speed switching issue. However, it is fairly certain that Asus has no plans (maybe they never did) to release a proper non-buggy bios update. If I had to guess I would say that the problem is a combination of the PCI-e, MXM, and ACPI code in the bios.

Anyway, while the C90S may not be perfect, it still is one of the only true "unlocked" MXM laptops around. I view the performance table modification work around for the NVIDIA cards as an acceptable alternative to not having any GPU upgrades at all.

Having said all that, I would be willing to bet that this is a nonissue with ATI cards. I've got a feeling that they will run full speed without any tweaking. This is just a guess at this point though, until someone can confirm it.

Lastly, don't get too frustrated with the situation, as soon as I hear anything from Mavke regarding GT 130M support I'll let you all know.

 

oh i ain't frustrated. right now i can run everything i usually play without any problems. what frustrated me was the way asus handled our efforts at doing what they were supposed to do. complete and utter rejection. it's very clear that they took this as an insult. and refusing to help us with the bios is what i consider rude. for us, it will take ages to be able to edit the bios and fix all the problems. for them it's a 10 minute task...

 

Asus, Asus Policy and C90S as Asus product

Asus is a correct business partner according to user’s agreement. No doubt about that!
I don’t like Asus support policy and I’m not an Asus supporter! C90S is my last Asus product.

From technical point of view C90S is unique and incredible laptop from 2007. In the period October, 2007 – August, 2009 it works 24h per day without any freeze or restart nearly 2 years. C90S was one of the best reliable and stable systems for me. As an assembler Asus have all my respect and gratitude for C90S. I’m proud to own C90S!

Regarding so called C90S BIOS “problem(s)” – There in NO problem(s)! Don’t confuse the right of companies to customize their products with our wishes to control peripherals at BIOS level.

I’m fully agreed with Atvaark that Asus can easily to solve our problems. This is the right way! Unfortunately we already knew the Asus answer. Thank you Atvaark for your right questions to Asus. I would like to say “Asus, change your support policy!”

 

to them the C90 is a dead horse but I think this thread proves that this laptop from 2007 and the C90P from 2008 are very good laptops. I don't think anyone for example has such a powerful quad in a 15" laptop as myself for so little money or with as much freedom to OC even with my currently underpowered 150W adaptor can still squeeze 3.3ghz from it ! As for bios once we are able to rewrite the bios to give us full speed when we need it, it will be perfect, just need to get that lovely GT130M working now

 

@gonzo76
Hi Gonzo76,

If you are talking about C90S:

“How do I update the BIOS to the latest 1002.ROM version from the Asus website?”
The answer is already on Asus forum.

“Is this the best bios update out there?”
Yes, it is the best original Asus Bios.

Here you are the link to last Asus C90S Bios 1002 with E7500 support (this is a mod of original 1002). The original 1002 is also included.
1) Download and extract ISO
2) Burn it on CD
3) Boot from CD
4) Run update
5) After finish, restart your system

C90S-Bios-1002-Mod-E7500

PS: There is a more intelligent way to flash your BIOS. Just look at on your boot screen. I'll be happy if you find out how.

 

Anyone have any idea why my idle temps are so high...they are around 75-80 degrees. I have a c90p heatsink installed, and it did bring the temps down slightly, but there just seems to be something wrong. I even have the card at its stock clocks and it is still that hot.

Maybe I need new thermal tape? I bought some random tape off of ebay, and don't know if it's working so well.

 

Have you carried out the vicious mod and purchased a decent laptop cooler to put underneath?

 

@bmounx9
Hi Bmounx9,

1) What software you are using for GPU’s temperature readings? (Speedfan is not accured )
2) It will be good if you give some info about your ambient temperature. Why? If this temperature is 35ºC - 40ºC then your GPU’s temperature is normal.
3) Are yours fans are up and running?
4) Threw out any thermal tapes! Many manufactures are using thermal tapes or pads because it’s a chip solution. For the best thermal conductivity always use quality thermal compound. For laptops it’s an essential element. At the moment the best compound is Noctua NT-H1. Some compounds are dangerous if you are not careful (e.g. Arctic Silver 5 – slight electrical conductivity).
5) Clean very carefully touching surfaces with Isopropyl Alcohol!
6) It’s very important to use compound correctly. Here is video instruction how to do that.

 

Sorry to tell you that, but I'm pretty confident, that this is where all the problems are coming from. I don't know why, but you already know how hard is to run properly 9600M GT, and even than you still has 30 seconds delay in the initial boot (if that is fixed, correct me). Well, 5920G doesn't even want to POST with one of those, I guess it wouldn't get any better with contemporary nVIDIA GPUs. Why, well sorry, but you are the proof It's shame because nVIDIA made the MXM... and ATi hasn't compatibility issues (at least for now, fingers crossed, to keep it that way). I wish you good luck though, we should be able to get what we like after all. Just to say - I'm currently running MSI vBIOS HD4670 and it was plug'n'play... I guess that nVIDIA GPUs are messing with the on-board BIOS, and if they are not in the list, they are not running properly, or they are not running at all.

Most of the Acers that have G in the end of the model name has MXM inside. MSI is big MXM supporter too

I'm with you there. So far there is no reason to think otherwise.

 

There is no "30 second delay" when using what I call an "unlcoked" MXM card. There seems to be a LOT of confusion regarding MXM modules in general and what is actually a "locked" card and what is considered an "unlocked" card. I'm a bit busy right now but later today I will write up a short FAQ to clear some of these things up.

Basically, the C90S/P can be upgraded to ANY "unlcoked" MXM-II card. There may be slight difficulties like having to change the performance tables with certain vendors MXM cards however. Small price to pay in my opinion to have an upgradable GPU in a laptop.

I'll post more complete and better explained information later.

PS: Regarding other MXM laptops, did you know that other companies can (and do in some cases) make MXM laptops that will refuse to boot with another vendor's MXM modules? This allows them to advertise the laptop as "MXM" and "upgradable". However, these laptops will only support an MXM module with a special bit of code built into the MXM VBIOS that "syncs" up with the system bios during POST. Without this code in the VBIOS it won't boot. It's a dirty trick that has been done before.

 

AngelMarinov:
Thanks for the BIOS info. I had trouble finding this on ASUS site.

I would like to add that using the Nvidia Ntune, my GPU temp for 8600GT on my C90S was 82-88C before I drilled the holes. Now it is reading 75-80C (idle -load). I trust these are within spec (?)

 

@NightWalker - OK, I'll wait for the FAQ then

I'm not very sure, but I think that Compal's MXM modules are one of those, that requires Compal notebook in order to run at all, otherwise they wont.

 

That is true Triturbo. You will also find that there are numerous acer mxm cards that will only work in acer laptops too as they use a locked vbios.

@gonzo yeah those temps are acceptable. Try to get hold of a decent notebook cooler. I recommend getting the NYZT cryo lx it can be a bit pricey but it is well worth it. With a 12V switchable power supply powering it the fans really kick up a notch (that is 3x 120mm fans ) I load out at 73C in crysis with the 8600M GT DDR2 clocked at 575/1490/543 (max stable clocks) while having a Q9650 at stock working away next to it! I do have some decent thermal paste that would cut temps down to below 70C but I don't want to waste it until I get the DDR3 version that the repair centre owes me. Bottom line get a cooler if you don't already have one

 

Regarding BIOS:

Please, read this book! It’s more important to understand what you are reading. Then you’ll be more productive in your guesses, suggestions and at the moment some wrong conclusions.

“ BIOS Disassembly Ninjutsu Uncovered”, Author Darmawan Salihun

 

Wrong conclusions regarding MXM structure and how a laptop's system bios relates to it? I'm confused as to what it is you are saying. I base what I'm saying regarding MXM modules on documented facts. There have been multiple instances of people being able to successfully upgrade MXM laptops and also people who have failed for some of the reasons I have listed.

I do not have any special knowledge of actual system bios programming though and I do not make claim to such. I only know that certain venders are able to block out "foreign" MXM modules in their system bios.

PS: I think my comments at this point are actually adding to the confusion. I have to go for a few hours, but I'll write the FAQ regarding MXM modules when I get back and add it to the first post.

Angel Marinov,

If you have first hand programming experience with system bios', you're help to the C90 community would be much appreciated. Thanks all.

 

Nope haven't done a viscous mod, no cooler either. Removing the backdoor does put the temps down a bit. Think I may have to head down to the hardware store =]

I a using GPU-Z to get readings. The ambient temp is around 30 degrees. So the readings are above the normal.

So I guess I will pick up some more thermal compound. I can use it on the memory chips as well right?

 

King Of Interns,

I'm actually using an ACER 8600GT in my C90S. It was cheaper so I blindly bought that over the ASUS one. For one, the mounting holes are smaller diameter, so I had to mount the x-plate somewhat differently...but...the video card does work. I installed the drivers off Nvidia's website. When I tried to install the vid drivers from ASUS.com they did not recognize the card

 

yeah carry out the vicious mod it really helps in conjunction with a notebook cooler. You can always purchase a new door if you have to sell the laptop. I wouldn't worry about idle temps too much, they can be as high as 75C or even 80C with the C90S without the viscious mod. My idle temp is 51C with max OC applied so it does make a massive difference to carry out the mod and get a cooler.

hey gonzo, that is interesting, is your card a DDR2 or DDR3 card? The screw holes seem to be smaller in diameter with the 9600M GT, 9650M GT and GT130M too so it must just be asus's way of changing things hehe, I really hope the ati 4650 DDR3 card becomes a more common sight over the next few months. That would be gorgeous in the C90. PERFECTION!

 

Alright, that's good to hear. I remember someone just cutting out a big hole and just covering it with mesh, I may go ahead and do that.

Any suggestions for a cooler? I think I saw someone selling a Zalman cooler in the Buy/Sell forums. If that would work I may go ahead and purchase that.

 

The NYZT cyro: http://www.nzxt.com/products/cryo_lx/

It is the very best and you can then get a cheap universal 12V AC power supply for it to feed it 12V continous to get ALOT of airflow rather than using the 5V power from usb port. Really it is brilliant. Also because it is quite large it makes sense to also drill across where the CPU is too to get maximum cooling. Put it this way in addition to cooling my GPU well my Q9650 is running at just 41/42C at idle and 60C under stress test when it is on the cooler now at stock 3ghz x 4. Yes it will be noisy when using full 12V but it is worth the noise especially if you are gaming anyways and therefore have the sound cranked up or earphones on. Can't imagine a C90 owner caring about noise anyways

 

Oooh, that is nice. It is a bit pricey though. I saw a smaller version of it on NewEgg but it seems to only use two fans instead of the three, but it is about 30 dollars less. My shopping list just keeps growing, but I love the c90s, so all this money is well spent.

Yeah, noise was never an issue. The bright lights I have coming out of the back are an issue though, at least when I do work in the library =]

 

Ambient temp 30 degrees? how can you stand it? normally you'd be sitting around 17-21 degrees in a normal room...

 

30C is not that hot...87F? that is definitely bearable. it hit 42C here this last summer.

 

I live in a high point of a house so all that warm air comes straight up here. Actually during the cold season it is quite nice =]

I really want to do this viscous mod now, but class doesn't end for another hour...

 

Ha ha that is an awesome mod mate! Yeah it is kinda pricey but it is well well worth it when you use it together with a 12V universal AC adaptor. Just take the USB to cooler connector to make sure the tips that come with it are compatible. Shouldn't cost you most than $10-15 and will boost the speed by more than 50%. I still recommend getting the real deal over the 2 fan one as this thing is so well built it is pretty much indestructible. Something like this doesn't need to get replaced again so it is basically an investment for whatever laptop you have now :C90S and what you have in the future.

I know what you mean about shopping list keeping on growing, currently on mine I have an 180W universal adaptor as the 150W one is a bit strained with this beast of a Q9650, Windows 7 64 bit, a GPU upgrade (GT130M or 4650 DDR3) and eventually 8GB of ram

 

@NightWalker
Hey NightWalker,

You get me wrong!

I have no intention to offend or argue with anyone. All my posts are based on the idea to help and more important to makes any of us to be better and better.

NightWalker, it’s difficult to me to explain it but I’ll try a simplest and shorter way as I can. It’s good to have information and practical knowledge about “… documented facts …”. The point I’m talking about is to understand what caused them and the most important - to have an answer why. In this direction the IT degree from MIT or Stanford is considering only as a base. The mentioned book is a treasure which will help to anyone who seeking answers. You must have a clear vision what is exactly staying behind “… the right of companies to customize their products …”. Don’t forget when you faced with “… documented facts …” that there is something very important before – Idea, Design (hardware, software), Manufacturing and depending on the product, Assemblers Customization. I hope that you make a difference between that to use someone’s application and required knowledge for its creation.

“If you have first hand programming experience with system bios', you're help to the C90 community would be much appreciated. Thanks all.:”
Yes, I have. Unfortunately this is not enough and people in this field as most of system programmers knew it. It’s a real madness to try to do that if you are not a part from Asus. I’ll try. If I have results they will be posted on NBR’s thread “C90S Unleashed”.

Please, don’t take my words as an offence! As I said in my first post I’m grateful to you and I appreciate your work! Thank You!

This was my last post here. Thanks to anyone! I’ll continue to keep an eye here and I’ll answer to any question on “C90S Unleashed” when I’m ready.

@bmounx9
Hey Bmounx9,

“So I guess I will pick up some more thermal compound. I can use it on the memory chips as well right?”
Yes, absolutely right!


@gonzo76
Hey Gonzo76,

Here you are only BIOSes: C90S-BIOS-1002 and C90S-BIOS-1002A-E7500