Problems? See this thread at archive.org.
Hi all,
I have a bit of a strange thing going on with my shiny new N56VZ. I decided that it would be a good idea to buy these:
Sandisk 120GB Extreme SSD
Icybox caddy system
In doing so, I can swap out the HDD from the primary bay and replace with the SSD. Pop the bluray player out and into an external caddy and reinsert the old 1TB HDD into the secondary slot with the internal caddy.
It works fine, I was able to create a fresh install of Windows 8 RTM (GPT Partition) onto the SSD which works fine with the BIOS product key and still runs fast/secure boot. However, there is a slight problem with the old HDD in the secondary bay in that, if I go to restart the machine after windows says 'Restarting' then the screen goes black *just* before it reposts, the HDD makes a little squeal. The kind you might get if you just rip the power cable out before it's had a chance to park. In other words, it's not a good sound. If I shutdown, it seems to be alright...I think, but I'm still not convinced.
I've read caddy's having an issue with shutdown, but I think this might be different as it does actually power off.
What's more annoying is if I pull the old HDD out and try to boot, it goes straight to the BIOS so I need it in for it to work.
Anyway thanks for reading, any ideas?
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Yet another variant of crash
Might be best to figure out exactly what happens before trying to find a way to get around it..
But it seems similar to this: http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus/709678-n56vz-fails-sleep-shutdown-2.html#post9111804
Still -- that the system skips to the bios when it's not inserted isn't supposed to happen. Could be that the bootloader in use is actually still placed on the old hdd? That this is what the bios detects as first choice? Try testing a boot, hit esc, and pick the ssd for example - if it doesn't boot then, that's probably what happens. Windows doesn't replace the original efi-boot on a new install, after all. Only the "recovery" thing asus uses will do that.
On the other hand, if that's actually what's happened, that the device boots from the caddy drive - this could probably explain why windows won't unmount it properly before shutting off.. Isn't difficult to avoid things like this, but windows dev people might not plan for all situations, such as having the boot-partition on a drive the other system files aren't on..
Another thing, it should be easy to put the efi-boot over on the new disc. Essentially, you just copy the efi boot file into a /efi/... directory on for example it's own partition inside the gpt-partition, and mark it with a bootable flag. If you're up to it -- might want to take a look at rEFInd.. good replacement for the original bootloader, and won't do strange unseen things you don't know about either. Tutorials should be relatively easy to go through - you just need a partition manager of some sort.
So best guess (underline: guess).. combination of absent diagnostic pin and not properly unmounted boot partition at shutdown. -
Okay, so I kind of see the problem. My old HDD is full of system partitions including EFS and my SSD is nothing more than one partition. I'm guessing then, this isn't the way to do it? EFI should be on the SSD?
I do want to retain all of these on the E: though in case I need to revert it back! I'm really confused by this whole UEFI/EFI lark though, I'm a bit too old school with my MBR's etc. I've tried EaseUS Partition Master 9.2.2 but it shows the overall structure completely wrong? Then the Paragon Partition Manager 12 latest demo, but that won't move partitions in the free version. Maybe because I'm trying to do it from Windows rather than a boot CD?
I'm completely confused. Do I have to make a partition on the C: or can EFI be contained in a folder? Maybe I should whip out the HDD and try installing it all again from scratch without the interference.
At the moment though, I can't boot from the SSD alone because the only option in the BIOS (with secure mode off etc) is BOOTMANAGER which lies on the old HDD. There's nothing on the SSD to allow me to boot the machine.
I'll try this first and deal with the grounded pins later if it doesn't stop the HDD whining on reboot. I should say, it sleeps fine so I'm pretty sure it's not the pin thing....but we'll see
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You got further than me on the first attempt
..I always just boot a linux spin to do things like this, so I didn't think of that. Minitool Partition Wizard has uefi/gpt support for those things.. Haven't used it myself, but heard it works reasonably well..
But yes - essentially you would mount the efi partition, and find a directory /EFI, and some files in it. Copy those to a new partition inside the gpt-partition on the ssd, and you could simply launch that efi-boot manager from the bios stage. Nothing magical about it.
The problem..s is that in windows, you can't use the normal tools to mount system partitions (you need to.. something.. mountvol /s and a driveletter, but only on the professional version). And then you can't simply create a new one, or arrange it afterwards.
The next problem is that the administration tools (like many other partition tools, it seems), use conventions from the earlier mbr system setups. So like what you see in the screenshot you had, they don't give you the option to resize the partition inside the gpt-partition, or even see that it's a gpt partition there (and you can't create a gpt-partition either, so.. stuck). Also, marking an mbr-setup disk as "active", isn't the same, technically, as marking a gpt-partition active, but the same conventions are used over each other..
But. If you create a gpt-partition first. Then create an efi boot partition/system partition at the beginning of the disk (put the contents from the uefi/efi partition on the old hdd inside, or something like rEFInd, which looks a lot nicer, but may have trouble with the secure boot parameters for win8..), mark that as bootable -- and leave the rest of the space unallocated - then a windows install tends to play nice, and add itself as a efi-bootable system, with it's own efi-boot system partition after the first efi boot-manager..).
I'm assuming that it's going to work to edit the partitions and keep 1 primary partition with windows (old mbr setup), and adding the asus efi boot as well, in it's own gpt-partition (i.e., new->gpt partition. Inside gpt-partition, create partition->200mb, mark active, copy files into it - or optionally just copy that other partition). Completely backwards, but it probably will work - efi boots and the boot-managers are much more robust than the mbr boots, since they directly address a specific partition, and identify them on boot, instead of using the system assigned ids.
Agree this stuff is completely confusing, though.. Honestly, I've held off on moving back to an efi boot again on my laptop, since it's not strictly necessary yet. So I still have a grub boot that boots a linux and a win boot. It works.
Even if it's more convenient and.. neater, to have a universal efi boot-manager (like rEFInd, or at worst asus' bootloader) on the beginning of the gpt-disk, and then the other OSes that support efi-boots (win7-8, mac, linux) in order backwards inside the gpt. -
Well good news - I'm getting there.
After much faffing about, I decided that I couldn't figure out how to clone the EFI partition to the SDD. In the end, I got a copy of "OS to SSD 3.0" from Paragon which worked, although the process was difficult to do (because I had to reverse some of my previous actions)!
I tried to restore my original HDD so it was back to factory, but I had removed the D: drive and combined the C & D into a singular partition. In doing so, I couldn't restore properly using F9 as ASUS now seem to use the Windows 8 reset function rather than the old ASUS restore function. Using the MSDN copy of Windows 8, I was able to install it back to the combined C&D partition on the old HDD. After-which using my desktop PC, I plugged both drives in at the same time and used "OS to SSD 3.0" to close the Windows 8 & EFI partition to the SSD from the newly restored HDD. And whaddya know, I put the SSD into the laptop alone and it booted in TWO SECONDS! :O So that works. I've now backed up this structure to DVD just in case I need it again.
That's part 1 solved!
After the back up, I took the HDD and completely erased it (so it's a single GPT partition, nothing more - nothing less). Worked fine in the Desktop PC, nothing odd. I Plugged it into the Notebook and Windows failed to detect it. The notebook was set to 'fastboot', so I forced it into BIOS and fortunately this allowed the HDD to be rediscovered and now it works in Windows (PHEW!)
However, my main problem is that it STILL makes a really nasty noise on reboot only. It shuts down and sleeps fine, but sounds like the notebook cuts the power seconds prematurely before it starts up again. So, any new ideas/ thoughts before I try to RMA the caddy/try a different one?
Could it be that I'm using a GPT partition?
Maybe that's just how ODD's are turned off?
aAnyway, I'm so close now to perfection....thanks again
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First of all - nice But some workaround.. having to get by the desktop computer, and so on. I think I need to write a better guide.. figure out a way to create the gpt-partitions in windows..
And no, gpt partitions are mounted the same way as others. According to the bios settings, the second sata port is also handled in the same way as the first one (many laptops have different detection routines, sleep/rediscovery on the second sata port set in hardware - the n56 bios doesn't have that - they "unplug" the second sata in software instead when switching profiles, etc.. the "odd" switch in power4gear).
And I've tried using a second hdd on a different caddy in win7.. one that also limited or had to turn down to sata1 speeds to work, and didn't have that problem with it turning off like that..
Also strange that it didn't get detected in windows at all. I'm not an expert on how these caddies work, so I don't know if this is true. But it's at least possible that the way win8 deals with the device is different from how it works in win7. Combine that with a set of new workarounds in the asus acpi scripts, and that could explain how this happens.. but difficult to say for sure.
Maybe you can see something in the logs? Search for "eventvwr.mc", should turn up. We're looking for something like the drive being disconnected with a warning every couple of seconds, or a yellow or red warning at the shutdown or reboot. If it's that, you should be able to find a way to set the controller on the second sata port to match the acpi capabilities/speed of the dock (but a bit of a long shot).
Other possibility is the diagnostic pin. That perhaps windows is using that to figure out how the drive is to be handled. I.e., it detects the dock's capabilities instead of the drive's settings. I've read guides where people isolate the contact.. paint over it, etc. But not sure how exactly the pins are set up - was a link in that thread I linked to on the top, though..
..were there any jumpers set on the hdd, by the way? I'd try that, just to see if that changes anything - there's usually a pin set that can lock the drive to lower speeds. With the way the bios doesn't limit the drive, and the way the enclosure might not support sata3..
ASUS N56VZ - SSD/HDD Combo Shutdown/Reboot issues :(
Discussion in 'Asus' started by jonboyuk, Apr 20, 2013.
