Another reason to wait on a new laptop: LED-backlighted LCD displays

So Apple and HP together announced that they will hopefully be implementing new LCD displays in their notebooks featuring LED backlights, which feature evenly lit screens (e.g. much bigger sweetspot) and a much better color gamut. The brightness of LED backlight is roughly 1,680 nits...whoppingly higher than the ~200-250 nit average we get in today's notebooks.

These will jump out for the mass public in Q207, around the same time as the arrival of Santa Rosa and Penryn (shrunken die of the Merom from 65nm to 45nm).

http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20070103PD210.html

LED-backed LCD monitors (LCM's) have already been out for desktop users for over a year now and the big question is how much of a premium we are going to have to pay for LCM's (if any, but I am sure there will be). This report purportedly claims the contrast is amazing: http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/000980.html

EDIT: Many flatpanel LCD HDTVs are backlit by LEDs as well.

 

As far as I know you can already get LED-lit LCDs. For example the high end Sony SZ do have it (SZ3VWP).

 

Wow I've never even heard of the SZ3VWP before!

 

That's just the European naming system. In the U.S., the SZ360 model and up, and most of the forthcoming 400 series, have backlit LED screens.

 

I'm not sure if this quote was from the article linked. I tried to find it in the article, but couldn't. Anyway here's my feedback to the above..

The next generation Mobile CPU from Intel (rumored to be code named Penryn), won't be out until 2008, (which means it probably won't be in laptops until late 2008). Penryn is rumored to be a 45nm CPU, and while it will be based on the Merom design, it will be upgraded with new features like a 6mb cache on the high end, and a 3mb cache on the low end. So calling the Penryn a "shrunken die Merom" isn't quite accurate.

Santa Rosa, which is the code name for Intel's next generation mobile chipset, will not support the Penryn CPU, but rather the existing Merom CPU with a couple of updates. Intel will provide an updated Merom CPU for the Santa Rosa chipset, (a Merom that will support an 800 MHZ FSB and that will use the new Socket P), but it won't be Penryn.

Intel Santa Rosa announcement URL
Intel Laptop CPU Roadmap article URL
Intel CPU Roadmap article URL

 

jas, your referenced articles are all too old.

Check out this article a couple of days ago on computerworld: http://www.computerworld.com/action...ewArticleBasic&articleId=9006938&pageNumber=4

Here is another article in Nov of '06: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/11/28/intel_samples_penryn/ again stating Penryn release 2nd half of '07.

Also, Santa Rosa does indeed support Penryn. Why else would Penryn be released a full year before the Montevina platform? The Montevina platform regardless is still purported to supported Penryn (upon its release in '08 or late '07).

 

dont wait, its bs

 

Go to the sony forum on this site and ask about how many sony szp owners broke their lcd.
The thing is very fragile. Not to say that apples and hps will be fragile but I would wait and see.

toshiba libretto is also led lit and i think the fujitsu 2010

 

To get that extra brightness, the power will need to come from somewhere. So that means higher consumption rates for LCMs.

Samsung's LGP Prism technology does a good job of creating an even backlighting.

 

um

lgp is lg phillips

lgphillips is the company that uses the word prism for its screen. Other manufacturers use the same technology samsung probably does to they might have even invented it. But they dont use that word to describe it.

cmo uses the same type of screen in the g1 and the v1j

 

You could very well be right. I was going on Donald's explanation of the LGP Prism from the HEL80's display here:

 

Ok I understand more clearly now

the screen is a samsung screen

it uses the same technology as the lg prism. Thats what that says.

Its not an lg screen but its 'like' the lg prism. I always thought it was an lg screen because I probably read the same thing some time ago.

It is the samsung version and they might not even have a seperate word for it cmo doesnt either.

edit no it is called samsung prism lgp. the lgp stands for the polyer layer in the screen. Ok why this is confusing is because the company LG uses the name prism . Actually its called tir prism you can see it in best buy. Im assuming these are the same things but I could actually be wrong.

 

lgp stands for light guiding plate its a layer in all lcds.

The prism lgp spreads the light evenly. Not a name brand not invented by samsung or lg.
Invented by a small company.

my mistake.

 

Yea, well that doesn't mean that my information was inaccurate. I admit that I missed the news that Intel are ahead of schedule on the manufacture of Penryns but nothing that you quoted provided information that would have me change anything I stated previously. I still say that Penryns will not be supported by Santa Rosa, and that these laptops won't be out until 2008 (only maybe now it won't be late 2008). Looking into the articles you mentioned.

from that article;

And then later in the article;

That reads to me that if we get any Penryns in 2007, it will be late 2007, (even then, the article doesn't state that it will be the Mobile Penryns out in late 2007). They also state that Penryn's will be supported by the Bearlake chipset specifically, so it again makes sense to me that this means Penryns will not be supported by the Santa Rosa chipset. Intel has already announced both the chipset, (the Santa Rosa’s ‘Crestline’ North Bridge chip is officially named the 965GM), and the CPU that will be supported (the modified Merom I mentioned previously).

from that article;

Again that doesn't read to me that Penryns will be supported by Santa Rosa but rather that they won't be supported until the newer chipset.

Unfortunately you don't provide any information to suggest that Penryns will be supported by Santa Rosa, except by your straw man argument around release dates. (I don't think that Penryn's will be out a full year before Montevina anyway, but more like 6 months) And I already stated that I believed that Penryns will be supported by the next generation chipset (as all the articles suggest), although again you state that the Montevina platform will be out in '08 or late '07. Only you must be guessing the late '07 release date, because nothing that's been posted has suggested that happening (they all state 1H08 for Montevina)..

 

Em. Bearlake is a desktop chipset and they way they talk about Penryn refers to the Penryn family rather than Penryn (the mobile version) itself. Notebook chipsets are generally one generation behind desktops, which is why desktop is on the 965 series while mobile is on the 945 series. While I can't guarantee it'll be compatible, it's fairly logical that Penryn chips will be supported by the Santa Rosa platform. It'll be kind of like a Santa Rosa refresh like the Napa Refresh for Merom over Yonah.

And Penryn's timeframe is for H2, realistically Q4, 2007. 45nm is on track or ahead of schedule and has been for a while. With AMD hard on their tails for a H2 2008 45nm launch, Intel needs to release 45nm products in 2007 to maintain their lead. Processors tend to be refreshed every 6 months so with 800MHz Meroms launched in Q2, Penryn is perfectly scheduled to replace them in Q4. Chipsets/platforms tend to last at least 12 months as well and support 2 sets of products, which is why Napa supported Yonah and Merom, and Santa Rosa will support 800MHz Meroms and Penryn.

 

Well since none of use here work for Intel, we can admit that we are all guessing based on what we think, or what we read, or what we read and then think. Having said that if anyone cares to read the articles already linked in this thread it seems to me that;

1) The next mobile chipset from Intel the 965GM, code named Santa Rosa, is scheduled for introduction in the first half of 2007, and will support a Merom CPU which will be updated to support an 800mhz FSB and the new Intel Socket P.

This is stuff that's been stated in these articles. I haven't read anywhere yet that Santa Rosa will support the next generation Intel mobile CPU, which has been codenamed Penryn. If someone knows of a reference-able source somewhere that states it will be supported, they should post it.

2) The next mobile CPU from Intel, codenamed Penryn, will be supported by a new chipset. The new mobile chipset is codenamed Montevina (desktop is codenamed to be Bearlake). Some Penryn CPUs will be available late 2007, with the mobile version specifically noted as available in 1H08. The Montevina chipset is specifically noted as being available 1H08. Admittedly with pre-release information, the article writers are basically guessing too. We'll have to assume that they've tried to source their research somewhat.

If someone has a different interpretation of these articles, please feel free to contribute and again if something has been written somewhere to suggest something different, please link to it. I'd love to read it. As pointed out in my prior posts and as a result of everything that I've read so far, my predictions are;

1) Santa Rosa based laptops will not support Penryn CPUs
2) Penryn/Montevina laptops will not be available until 2008

 

Sorry, buddy - but just like you said, regardless of whatever crap article we pull out of our behinds, it's all speculation (from us and the aricles).

But, in the end, it is apparent that I side with ltcommander that Santa Rosa will/can support Penryn. We can argue all day long but in the end, like said already, we're all just speculating.

I again apologize for my rather terse post relative to yours.

 

Not really. I work for a company with LED lamps and LED's uses 10% of the power to produce the same luminosity of conventional lamps.

Iam not sure if it will be the same for lcd monitors but I think it will consume less not more at all.

 

Iskander is correct - LEDs are 90% more power efficient than typical incandescent bulbs. So, with today's technology, extra brightness does not mean higher consumption rates.

The same applies to cars. Back in the 60's people always imagined that the extra horsepower implies extra fuel consumption but they were obviously proven wrong with the advent of numerous technological advances in the engineering of motors, such as direct fuel injection, better engineering, valve-timing, introduction of electronic/computer-managed systems, or even a complete redesign of the motor (e.g. the rotary engine is ridiculously efficient relative to piston-driven motors).

EDIT: Here is an article displaying how incandescent bulbs has an efficiency of only about 12 lumens/watt while LEDs have a whopping efficiency of about 120 lumens/watt: http://mactom.com/mactom.main/?section=RV&subsection=FifthWheel&page=Lighting

LED's are the future (they're brighter, energy efficient, more durable, smaller, and is heat-free) but the biggest drawback is that they are expensive.

EDIT EDIT: It only gets better - this increased energy efficiency implies better battery life for laptops - check out this review of the Sony VAIO TX2XP, which uses LED-backlights: http://www.trustedreviews.com/notebooks/review/2006/03/14/Sony-VAIO-VGN-TX2XP/p1