Asustek XG Station external graphics card

Talk about a mysterious looking device, Asus is reportedly going to show this off at CES next week, anyone heard anything about this?

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20070102PR202.html

 

Very, Very interesting...

Hmmm

 

wow thats pretty interesting indeed, kinda like a usb sound card

 

Wow, I suddenly have a feeling that I should start socking away cash...this looks good.

 

This seems to be a sound card and a dual monitor output.

I cant remember the product but its equivelent to a matrox something.

Not as exciting as you think but still very small. Its express card and it would sell very well.

Consider how many people on nbr ask for something like this. There is a demand.
It doesnt put a new gpu in your computer.

I do believe its going to also put hdcp support if your gpu doesnt have it. Theres going to be a lot of gadgets that do that upcoming this next year when people buy blue ray players for their 2006 laptops.

 

Thanks for the insight stamar

 

Hmmm reminds me of Sega's 32X system, designed to assist in graphics and sound quality. Lets hope it delivers.

 

Looks definitely worthwhile. Hope to see it at CES soonnnnn

 

The article states the XG Station has a "discrete graphics chip " which seems to imply that there is a graphics card/GPU in there - at least that's the way I interpret what they're saying.

Stamar, I think the Matrox product you're referring to might be the DualHead2Go(?) which splits the RGB out from a computer/notebook into two outputs allowing you to have up to three displays.

However, IBM/Lenovo has docking stations with PCI slots that accept video cards. IF the XG Station does have a video card, depending on what GPU they've put in there, this could be a big deal.

Imagine having a thin and light notebook with integrated graphics for work on the road and a docking station with a dedicated video card when at your desk. Hopefully this is more like the ThinkPad dock rather than the DualHead2Go.

Do any of the ASUS resellers here have more info?

 

Oooh looks nice. Hope ASUS uses a decent GPU, say at least an nVidia Go7600

 

ok

yes its a pc i e graphics card ok

you can add a pci e graphics card through the express card slot. Its going to be a gpu in somantics only, not like what you are thinking of. not a computer gpu like an ati anything


However you will notice your gpu is in something called pci e x 16.

Ok a gpu connected through pci e, it would not be something for gaming. It would handle something called hdcp, something like an added AA or something like that.
It could not be a gpu like you are describing, something that turns you intel 950 into a nvidia 8800 gtx. This is not possible.

What the gpu is is its actually only something that lets you play hd dvds or blue rays.
What you are dreaming about, it doesnt exist and it never will.

that would be nice. Theres nothing like that out there. Theres no interface to a laptop thats that fast

it could not be as fast as an intel 950

 

I would be careful saying what we want will never exist, i could guarantee that it would be easy to make if there was enough support, make an interface and sell graphics card thats like ExpressCard, just slightly different, there is no reason you couldn't access the other buses on the computer. It wouldn't be hard.

 

oh ya why id say never is because there is a large industry that would lose money if you could do that.
So I would say extremely unlikely as to ever.

I mean your notebook does have an interface that can accept a new gpu, it is just internal which makes a lot more sense anyway. there is not external computer interface that fast, and theres never likely to be one ever because the gpu companies would lose money by introducing that not gain money.

there will always be a gpu speed and an external device speed and not likely they will ever meet

this new external device speed is just not as fast as the pre agp gpu devices to give you an idea. Computers will probably always be like that much seperation because thats what juices the consumer best so far.

 

IBM had a dock (probably still does) that accepted PCI-E video cards. I think someone here wrote an article on it-he installed a 6600GT.

As Stamar said though, the connection was something like PCI-E 1X so the performance was extremely low for a 6600GT.

However, his point that "GPU companies would not make money" doesn't make much sense to me. If they can sell a low-power chip for mobile use and a high-power chip for the dock, it seems to me that they make more money.

And who knows what'll come-if a faster interface came along that let me have a notebook with ultraportable weight/life and a docking station that would make it a gaming beast, I'd definitely be interested and I know many others who would too. No more need to compromise!

 

Stamar is right that this shouldn't be blown out of proportion. I haven't actually seen a specific quote that said the XG will be connecting using a Express Card interface, but that would be the best case scenario over USB 2.0 or even FireWire 800. In any case, even with Express Card, the interface is equivalent to PCIe x1, which means anything over a desktop X1300 would be completely pointless due to bandwidth starvation. In fact, even if a X1300 is used it needs to rely completely on dedicated memory to prevent HyperMemory traffic from hogging the PCIe bus.

It is an upgrade from an IGP and Stamar is correct that it is an easy way to add HDCP support (which isn't related to AA by the way), but it certainly isn't a real replacement for a discrete GPU in that sense.

The other way to get around the bandwidth issue is what I think CalebSchmerge is saying by implementing a wider bus interface to avoid bandwidth issues. But if that is the case, you would need to develop a proprietary connector which wouldn't really get anywhere. Traditionally getting high bandwidth external interfaces have been difficult anyways due to signal degradation and no doubt higher latency.

I'd definitely like to see how ASUS is implementing the XG.

 

ooo but the gpu companies customer is the laptop manufacturer.

So it would gain the market of the small laptop computer home user

but entirely lose the market of gaming laptops

these interfaces are designed and implemented in a maximum money for many companies agenda.

 

Im not familiar with this pci e 6600 gt thing ok

but the pci e is not as fast as agp so connecting it to a agp 6600 gt doesnt matter.

You can connect a 8800 gtx to ur usb hub if youre feeling really nerdy but that doesnt do anything but confuse people lol

actaully, perhaps a pci e graphics card is faster than a 950 . I doubt it but its possible. possibly there is a device upcoming that is like a dedicated gpu faster than a intel 950.

 

Stamar is correct about the product itself. What you describe seems to be what this new product is.

However the word we are looking for is External Grahpic Cards, and yes they are in the works and sorta exist already.

You know how you have external hard drives and and take a box, and then put a hard drive in it, well external GPU's will work on the same line.

I don't think graphic card companies will loose money, I would think of this as broadening the market demand, and allows those who own older computer and notebooks and give them a chance to do more video intensive applications.

However it is too soon to tell, how well these external graphic cards will do or how effective they will be, but they are in the works.

 

Is that English? I can't tell.

Stamer you are obviously confused. EVERY major graphics card today is PCI Express. They are PCI Express 16x, which is just 16 PCI Express 1x channels put next to each other. The standard scales just by connecting a card to more channels; 16x = 16 times the bandwidth of 1x. For instance, my motherboard has 1 PCI Express 1x slot, 1 PCI Express 16x slot, and 1 PCI Express 4x slot.

The current *ExpressCard* standard exposes USB 2.0 and PCI Express 1x to the card in the slot. That means the bandwidth for a graphics card using *ExpressCard* as we know it now would be very limited. There are desktop PCI Express 1x graphics cards out there, though, and there is a GPU in the Belkin Universal Expansion Dock.

Aside from some electrical engineering speak about trace length (which I imagine is not a problem since ExpressCard already supports external devices) there is no reason that the ExpressCard standard couldn't be *extended* to expose more PCI Express channels to external devices.

I also see no reason why a manufacturer couldn't devise their own way of exposing these channels externally, especially if the motherboard chipsets are already supporting them internally.

Lots of laptops have high-density docking connectors coming off the bottom. So what comes off the bottom is a PCI-e 16x connection for an external graphics card and a PCI-e 1x connection for all of the other things a dock normally has. Big deal. That's only 17 PCI channels and a lot of chipsets provide 20.

It only takes 2 brain cells worth of imagination.

Seriously, Dell and IBM already both have docks that take half hight PCI and PCI-Express cards.

But you have to dream it to do it...

 

And here I was getting used to miniturization and convergence and now we are moving toward having all these dangly things sticking out of the notebook.

Anyways, I still think the bandwidth issue is the fundamental limiting factor. Express Card and PCIe x1 just don't have the bandwidth required to support even mid-range GPUs, especially future DX10 ones, so either they'll need to come up with a new interface, which would really need to be universal and ratified not just ASUS specific for the product to take off, or the scope of the product is slightly more limited.

EDIT:
I can see what you're saying Jumper and it's certainly possible to make a docking port. My concern is that such a design has to be done at the notebook level and it would be proprietary to ASUS notebooks. That really limits the market and I'm not sure how worthwhile that is. Especially when it's really only applicable to IGP based notebooks, because discrete chipsets would already have their PCIe x16 lanes routed to the GPU. There really aren't that many extra PCIe lanes to spare right now since the Express Card, wireless card, bluetooth, ethernet, and whatever other features need lanes too. To really make inroads you would need a universal connector shared by IBM/Lenovo. Dell, HP, etc. and that would require a lot of discussion and hashing out, which maybe has been happening, but I haven't heard anything about it yet.

 

ooo technically possible, but youll never see it. Thats what Im trying to explain.

Its always been possible but why has it never existed? I mean think back to geforce 2 days to today.

I mean hell, we dont even need this expansion, you can literally pull your laptops gpu out and fabricate some sort connection from it to an external desktop gpu. This should be entirely possible.

 

Let us dream the impossible dream then

 

Actually with AGP it makes a lot less sense.

If you expose 20 PCI Express channels to external device(s), that can be divided up however the external device(s) want/require. You could have:

*16x graphics card, a 1x TV tuner, a 1x eSATA connection, 1x for a high quality sound device, and 1x for all the legacy devices.
*5 4x graphics cards driving 10 external displays for low-end 2D work.
*2 x 8x graphics cards in SLI (what a lot of SLI boards with only 20 PCI-e channels end up doing)

Any number of combinations.

Exposing AGP externally gets you one thing - graphics. That's it. It's a single-device deal. It's not very versatile or useful for anything else.

Exposing regular PCI externally has been done, because of its versatility to the user.

 

Well exposing something like that would require rethinking how notebooks are made, because that's implying that the notebook itself is a barebones machine that you plug stuff into. That certainly won't be happening anytime soon.

The upcoming Santa Rosa chipset only has 22 PCIe lanes in total. 1 is required for Gigabit Ethernet, 1 is required for the Wireless card. You would probably want to set aside 1 for a Express Card slot and possibility 1 for Bluetooth although that is probably implemented by USB 2.0. That leaves 18 lanes only if the notebook doesn't have a discrete GPU. Such a "attachment" based notebook would then be IGP based.

It is an interesting concept though since it would redefine the meaning of Desktop Replacement. Instead of a huge everything you can stick under the hood design, it will then be a smaller "lite" design that will really only show it's power when you put it on a desk, hence DTR, and plug all the atttachments in. Personally though, I don't like DTRs of any type since I would like both power and portability together.

 

I see it as potential to redefine what exactly a 'laptop' is, or on a more basic level, what the purpose and intent of a computer is to begin with. Is it a fixed configuration device that we leave on the desk, or is it a combination of whatever devices we carry with us or have around us that have common interfaces?

I don't see why you couldn't re-use the same lanes and switch them between going to the internal GPU/internal hardware and going to the dock. IANAEE (I Am Not An Electrical Engineer) though. If ExpressCard, which is PCI Express based, can hot swap things on an off lanes, it should be possible.

What I really wish is that the ExpressCard group had had the foresight to define more then PCI Express 1x equivalent. ExpressCard/34 and ExpressCard/54 use the same internal connector:



Why not have ExpressCard/54 add more pins to allow for more PCI Express lanes? They had a great idea but they only brought it partway to its logical conclusion.

 

Here's a link to an External Graphic Card. Here.

However, this is not aimed to desktops users or laptop users, or even regular consumers with a price tag of $17000+!!
But this shows a new path and demand for ATI and Nvidia will be taking in the future, to grab and compete on a slightly different market.

Here's the Sidecar which can turn your desktop or laptop through the PCMCIA slot into a multimonitor desktop. Here.
This is very cool!

This also shows that the technology is there, it is just a matter of time and some help through some technology barriers and we should have external video cards, in my opinion, but this wont come so soon, like many hoped, it will take a while before it becomes mainstream and becomes affordable.

 

Hi,

i think Stamar has a point here, but according to this source : http://vr-zone.com/?i=4426

Well ok, the 945GM isn't a big performer, but there is a definite increase in gaming-performance.

It seems to perform pretty well and a 7900gs isn't that bad for gaming ... although it might not be able to release its full power (see Stamar), but some gaming with reduced Details should be possible.

But since the 7900gs alone costs around 200€ I am a little afraid of the price of the XG Station (400+ ? ) - butt if the Performance is right: count me in


Tobi

 

OMG 7900GS in 12" machine?! Insane!!

 

oh wow Im definitely mistaken about one thing

There is a 7900 gs thats incredible.

Well if this can work that changes a lot. Hell Ill just get a 7900 gs for my a8js.

I mean if you could get a gpu why would anyone ever buy an a8js again? Get a dell e1405, and plug it into a 7900 gs.
Like anyone I hope they make that product Im just not too hopeful. I would have bought a different notebook I think if I thought it could have a 7900 gs externally.

O guess I would get a 12 inch or a 13 inch with a large battery life.

I wonder what the price on this thing will be?

 

If it will be under 300$ I will buy it for sure.

 

im getting a hd 22 inch monitor already.
Um Ill go 400$ for an external 7900 gs. That seems right. I mean um.... maybe more think about it. I spent 1500 for my a8js. I could have gotten a 800 dell e1405 and even a 500 $ 7900 gs external and come out ahead.

and I think Id have a better system as well because the battery life would be better. 500$ works if it can go pci e x16 speed.

and it must right? I mean i have to use some logic.... why use a 7900 gs if it goes pci e x 1 speed? why not use a 7200? It must go pci e x 16


I lose some ability to game where ever ok, but gain superior weight and battery life on the go. hook the thing up to my monitor. This eliminates the gpu notebook kills asus main business itself.



men in black suits are talking about this device right now and asking who they have to kill.....

 

Sorry to disappoint you, but if you use logic you'll see that it cannot use pci-e 16x.
ExpressCard slot is connected to the system bus over a PCI Express x1 lane or USB 2.0. Maximum throughput over PCI-E 1x is 2.5 Gbit/s and there is no chance to have more.
Even if 7900 gs itself is a x16 card (which it is) and it gets connected to x16 slot in XG Station, speed itself will be equivalent to "weakest link in the chain" and that's ExpressCard slot and his x1 connection to the system bus.


Nevertheless, the idea is really great and I am also potential customer.

Imagine Asus W5F or W7J or Sony Vaio SZ with this baby. Power and portability, all together, unthinkable so far !

 

*sobs*

I don't have an ExpressCard slot!!!!

*sobs*

Anyone want to trade me for a Z35....

 

Wow, would this be usefull to people with intergrated cards?

 

That's the general idea, yes.

 

Don't beat yourself up, Stamar. You bought an a8js, a great little notebook - just enjoy it! (If you want to get rid of it, just let me know.)

Sure, IF this XG Station does what is claimed, it might have saved you some money, but you knew that something like that was going to happen sooner or later anyway, right?

According to the vr-zone.com article (thanks, tygold),
"Lab experiments on a notebook based on Intel 945GM graphics connected to the XG station with a ASUS EN7900GS graphics card showed an astounding 9 times faster acceleration."

I think that the 945GM scores around 450 in 3DMark05, so if they're getting 9x the performance, that's 4050 with the XG Station. Pretty good, but still less than a 'built-in' nvidia 7700.

The XG is probably not meant as an outright replacement for highend notebook graphics - at least not for now. Maybe in the future when we get more bandwidth, the XG Station2...

In the meantime, it still does look very interesting. If ASUS can sell this for ~$400, I'd absolutely buy one.

 

Wow... this just opened up a bunch of other notebook options for me if this is true.

 

Yes.....I am totally going to get a W5F and get this with it. Ultraportable with a 7900GS, my dream come true.

 

I wonder if that means its proprietary?

 

theres something that doesnt compute.

IF the device is limited to pci e x 1 why would it use a asus 7900 gs. what purpose does a 7900 gs have in pci e x 1? how could it be any faster than a 7200 go?

And a side note if they have a 7900 gs for this device, why for god sake didnt they put it in the g2? Its not limited to pci e x 1 there.

Its very weird. when is q2 07? april?

 

stamar you crack me up, even when I understand only half of what you're posting. You are being funny or sarcastic here, aren't you?

Anyway, like I said earlier look for this to be a Sega 32X type of deal, where you'll get some sort of processing help on textures and physics, along with the nifty sidekick ports/slots. But man, if it helps raise FPS/FRAPS even a little in Oblivion, I'm there.

 

The EN7900GS in the XG Station is not a mobile graphics card, its the Asus made desktop 7900GS. Putting it in the G2 is therefore not an intelligent idea...

@Jumper, the Z35F has an expresscard slot.....Where did you get the impression that it doesn't?

EDIT: 500th post w00t!

 

ok ya i want the same set up you want ricerboy i want this asus w5f but i want the one with the side view and i want a 7900 gs xg station.
samsung 22 inch lcd.
its set anything else is a waste of time.

 

I dun really expect asus will put in the 7900 nor even a 7800. Most probably the 7700.

According to Asus's history, they NEVER put any 78/79XX in anything that's portable. My guess is they ll continue their tradition. But i really hope not....

 

I cannot tell you why is like that because I don't have actual numbers.
Once when XG comes out I'm sure there will be plenty of "comparing" reviews, where they'll try to put different cards (7600GT, 7400, etc.) in XG and compare it with 7900GS results.

I don't know for sure, but I believe that XG has x8 or x16 slot built in and in that way it's possible to use gfx cards made for desktop.
And here's a quote from VR-Zone: "The XG Station is the world's first docking station to provide a standard PCI Express slot for additional graphics computing power on notebook computers with Express Card slot...

April, May, June

 

Well thats what it says. If you take that literally it is a internal desktop pci e expansion slot. Mostly used for sound cards

I dont know of a pci e graphics card though do any of you?

there are two of them also, xg devices. I would say its just a color difference but I notice small different things about them

 

Alright I've re-read some of the posts in this thread and you guys are getting me psyched for this product. And I already have an X1600 that blows away most of the games I play! Can this be a good thing?

 

How would the XG Station be connected to the notebook to allow enough bandwidth since its got the 7900GS.

If its at or under $300 I will surely buy one.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but ExpressCard will provide more like x4 or even x8 than only x1.

 

No it's only x1.

http://www.expresscard.org/web/site/about.jsp