How big of a deal is the FN and CTRL issue REALLY?

Even Fujitsu does it.. Dunno who their ODM is. The Fn key issue is a make or break decision for me. I went for the F3Jp over the A8Js, just due to this.

 

I purchased an F3J just to avoid the swapped Fn and Ctrl keys on the A8J. I could never stand the swap on Thinkpads, and the thought of owning a computer like that was unbearable.

 

Umm ... does a key hex editor like key tweak not fix this issue?

 

I am a hardcore programmer and have no problem with it.
Yeah, it was annoying for the first 2 weeks but ASUS laptops are too great to be ruined by such a little problem.
[Note : I frequently use CTRL+S to save the program and CTRL+SPACE to activate the code-completion so don't make such a fuss about these things]

No, these things won't help at all, even the keyboard cannot be re-wired (it has a matrix).
The FN is a special key that even works outside Windows.The only hope is BIOS editing and no one has done it yet.

 

I don't even want to talk about it... I'm still grieving they moved the Ctrl key from middle row, far left. Who needs a Caps Lock key anyway?

 

i'd say for normal typing/programming, it doesn't really matter. yes, it takes *some* time to adjust to, but bottom line is it's adjustable and can be get used to within a few mins

but for gaming (i'm talking about CS) though, it is and always will be a pain in the buttocks. it's physically awkward to be using the control key on the right of a fn key when u're using the wasd keys for movement. the only feasible solution to that is to say remap the movement keys to esdf, but then the left shift and tab would then be way too far. the pinky is not meant to have such exaggerated movements so ya, ONLY during gaming (specifically for FPS games, perhaps?), it IS a real pain.

am just so glad my G1 is the 'right way' around. i'm sure asus knows that G1 is for gaming and therefore they put the control at the 'right' place

 

Its not an issue once i adjust to it. But the moment i use other brand's laptop, i became slightly irritated...

Anway, it's not like the Fn key is being used frequently, right?

 

Its strange, some people comment that when they are switched around, so the Fn is on the left of CTRL, that it should be the other way.

However those who own notebooks with CTRL on the Left of Fn, complain that CTRL should be more to the right.

Nobody is happy. Lets just get rid of both.

 

Maybe they could put it like a jigsaw.... slide the keys around according to your preferences....

 

Then some moron who can't type will put all the letter keys in alphabetical order

 

Which studies have shown might not be a bad thing depending on the circumstances - like the original keyboards before they became Qwertified to stop the commonly used letters from getting entangled in the typewritter because people typed too fast [1]. I just wouldn't want to borrow a system from someone who did that - though I'd just slide them back

Actually I didn't like the Scroll-lock and PrintScr buttons being the way they were by default - that you had to hit FN+PrintScr to take a screenshot and not the other way around (in a fast paced multiplayer game and I want to get a pic to post - much better, like my old laptop had). So I got a little app that changed them around. Now that wouldn't help touch typists, but the rest of us might use something like that to change them around that way, and it applies to every program we use in Windows

Cat

 

well i happy to note my G2 is [Ctrl][Fn]
and my past 3 Sonys have all been same so i guess my G2 is normal lol

 

You get used to it, but it still bothers me, reason being that we use all Dell laptops at work, which have it Ctrl then Fn. It isn't quite a big deal unless you accidentally press the Hibernate key. -_-

Anyway, no idea who the idiot was who put it backwards on all their models, but it makes it different from the norm. (norm being what all normal keyboards and even the 5$ generic keyboard use)

 

But normal for desktop dos not equal normal for laptop, so that comparison is not valid (there are more disrepencies). Hell, (most?) desktop keyboards don't even have a fn button. So the norm can solely be based upon laptops (. The [ctrl][fn] might be in use in the majority of the keyboard, [fn][ctrl] is still used among lenovo, asus, apple and fujitsu-siemens (those are the ones i know, there probably is more) making it a strong minority.

OT: Does anybody elese have a problem with the saying "like comparing apples and oranges"? They're both round-ish, with a sweet or sour taste, they're both fruit and come from trees. You can totally compare them. The saying should be "like comparing apples and grass" or something

 

No, I would have to very much disagree.

When desktop users sit in front of a desktop, they instinctively expect the CTRL key to be in the lower left (and later lower right) of the typing part of the keyboard. This has always been the case ever since the advent of the AT 101-key style keyboards. It is extremely rare for this to not be the case.

For a laptop keyboard, they have all the keys in the same place for the main part of it, but they try to condense the keyboard into being a nice rectangle and jam all the keys all over the place, and sometimes this is done without thinking too much about order, ergonomics and usability.

In earlier laptop keyboards, the Fn key would sometimes be one of the keys along the top of the keyboard, or in the lower right quadrant, the upper right, or in the lower left like where it usually is these days. Before, there was a rather obscene lack of consistency across different manufacturers.

Also, I have a Logitech DESKTOP keyboard with an F-Lock key which acts similarly to an Fn key. They don't even put it along with the rest of the keys. Why? Because it would confuse the crap out of people and get in their way. Why? Because they EXPECT certain keys to be in certain places.

As a side note, the governments also usually have strict guidelines as to what a keyboard should be like. According to our Logitech rep, he told me that the Canadian government only buys keyboards that conform to a specific standard. They have about seven different layouts for Canadian (English, French, Bilingual) keyboards and they have to make one just for the government, because it has to conform to the standard. And then other some other organizations only buy when it conforms to another specific standard. But in ALL of those, they always have the CTRL on the LOWER LEFT.

By that logic, everyone is the same since everyone has a head, most people have ten fingers and toes, and they're all born from mothers. Let's forget that we have different nationalities, and different ideals, and different names, we're all the same.

Just because you generalize the identifying characteristics doesn't make them the same.

 

This is not something done by 'some idiot.' Can't compare desktop and laptop keyboards...there are a lot of differences between the two, and in where certain keys come up between desktops and laptops and even one laptop to another is more different then the same - there is no standadard for either (outside of the QWERTY area - and even that has many contenders). All the laptops I've ever used in the past 6 years have had it in that order, and there are a lot of companies that make it that way (ASUS, ECS, Lenovo, Apple, Fujitsu-Simens), and a lot the other (HP, Toshiba, Dell). I prefer it the way all my recent keyboards have had it. I could get used to the other way pretty quickly though.

If anyone wants to do something rather than write essays on the subject see my last post

Cat

 

After a while it gets natural, and I end up knowing where every key is subconsciously.

 

It's not a question of getting natural. It's a question of having to switch back and forth because of a lack of CONSISTENCY between manufacturers.

I'm already a "natural" with a QWERTY keyboard, having my face in computers for the last 20+ years. I'm also a "natural" with different variations, switching because I have to deal with US English, Canadian Multilingual and Canadian French (yes, the two are NOT the same) keyboards all the time, and also sometimes having to deal with the AZERTY (ex: FRANCE FRENCH) key layouts. That's three similar layouts with some keys string around differently and one that's completely different from the rest. I also have to deal with a keypad that's in alphabetical order rather than QWERTY.

In any case, you might find this Fn thing minor since it's on your only computer, but fact of the matter is, it's not natural and it'll be VERY apparent the more different systems you use.