Just a quick Advanced Order note.. (W3j / W2j)

Greetings Guys and Gals,

It's late... very late... I've been up all night putting the final touches on our project car and I got done and checked some emails and one really got to me and just wanted to make sure of two things... 1 that i'm not crazy and 2 that anyone who has placed an advanced order with us for the w3 or w2 understand what's going on.... Now, it's perfectly ethical to use this as an example without mentioning names... and since I voided out their order, they're technically not a customer either......

..... Basically, I got an email from someone who was first off pretty low on our list to begin with and basically told me that the delay is "unacceptable" and that "the delay came without any warning" and they want to know "how you're going to compensate advanced orders which were in before the latest delay?"

.... Since I have no control over Taiwan being unable to fit these new models on the last shipment and since ETA does mean ESTIMATED time of arrival.... I think that's a lot to ask... and given the $50 member discount on those advanced orders.... all I have to say is the answer to "how I'm going to compensate people" is that I'm going to void out their order. Call me what you want, but I've got too many understanding and appreciative customers waiting for these notebooks to hold up a system for someone who lacks any understanding of what's going on..... It's one thing if people seriously couldn't wait due to the delay and we could cancel the order or ship it to another address....... but (and corect me if I'm wrong) it's something totally different to expect me to be god and have control over manufacturing and on top of that, give them more than I already have when they're still going to get one of the first of the new units that crossed the pacific..... I don't need that... and it's tough to believe a forum member of all people would try to bully me and make me feel like the bad guy.

Sorry for the rant on the forum, but you should see the email.... That's what you get at 4am.

 

I have nothing bad to say about your actions regarding the manner at hand...

OFF TOPIC: Congrats Justin on your 6300th post on NBR Now go to sleep!

 

Some people are just crazy. I don't know how many times its been said that its ETA. So really since its ETA there is no thing as a delay everything is estimated, and when they get here well then they will be here. You have already done tons for the preorders. 50$ rebate getting everything done beforehand so you can ship them immediately which from what I understand is a lot of work. Magically moving ETA's would be nice but I know that's not going to happen.

 

Canceling them seems reasonable to me.

 

Justin,

Not sure what the circumstances were but probably under mail order law you were fine since the delay probably works out to less than 30 days. Yeah people should always go to the FTC website to read the law that way when they do have a complaint they fully understand.

Why can't people just be polite. Civility would go so much further.

 

Well I'm still not through processing the orders yet, so for anyone who doesn't even have their order processed, there isn't even an issue here.... everyone who does (the people who are the real early adopters, understood what could happen), but really in the end the who 30 days from purcahse thing is only even aplicable if 1, the delay isn't for a product that doesn't exist yet, ie: an advanced order that's stated as such when they order it and 2, only if the company refuses to let the person cancel their order.... In this case I made it clear I wasn't going to be dealing with people's "stuff" because we're all in the same boat here..... and I'll glady void the order unless we already shipped out the notebook.

Anyway..... 4 hours of sleep feels soooooooo good.

 

Just another reason why another Advanced Order for future products is LESS likely - congrats to the few who ruin it for the rest...you are truly a meatstick.

 

Yeah, a meatstick indeed...whatever the hell that means.

 

^ LOL - I can't be certain myself...

 

Your still in the right as far as I can tell, there is no reason that someone who was amply warned of the delay should get mad, especially when you are giving hem a discount. I'm not even buying this computer, and I sure knew about the delays. I think some people need to get over themselves.

 

Just a thought, but sometimes when you handle an irrational customer with care, he/she might actually turn into an appreciative customer down the line. Not saying that this customer was right, but I have a feeling that you're looking at heart failure and early retirement if you continue to take customer demands as personal insults.

 

I will try and take the side of the customer. Customers should always be in the right, even when they are wrong. You can't be a business man and expect to succeed if you put down your customers and treat them poorly. Customers have $1800+ on the line, and they have every right to ask questions and seek solutions to what is happening. They even have a right to cuss you out if they want, (even though it doesn't help anything.) But businesses have no right attacking customers. If someone *****es and asks to cancel their order the respect you give them will determine if they ever place an order with you again. You can easily sell their W3J spot to someone else easier than they can replace that hard earned cash they payed for the laptop with. Just as we knew the ETA might change, you knew advanced orders was a large undertaking. As a customer, we are not supposed to "understand" this large undertaking, nor are we supposed to care if it is easy or hard, all we want is our product. It is up to the BUSINESS to deal with the difficulties of an advance order, because YOU decided to do it. Making the customer feel guilty for asking about a product that they have paid for is unethical. If you can't handle the load, don't do it. Please don't come to the forum and ***** about how hard doing "advance orders" are, when YOU made that decision.
Remember, everything you post is a reflection of your company and you personally. *****ing on the forum doesn't add to company respect, even if some lemmings are fine with it. Remember, the consumer keeps you in business, not the other way around.

 

This statement is 100% wrong due to the fact that there are many many many stupid people in the world! A customer never EVER has the right to cuss out someone if they want to! The advanced orders were all placed on ETA's now let me explain to you what ETA's mean in sesame street language. ETA = Estimated time of arrival that means its subject to change. Wow that's so hard to understand! If you cannot grasp that you do not deserve anything!

 

"Unethical" is a little severe, don't you think? Like you said, it's Justin's business. He can make any decision he wants as to which customers he takes on. If someone is being obnoxious, he has every right to tell them to go **** themselves, though as you point out that could affect his company's rep and certainly whether that customer ever comes back. Though it sounds like he could care less about the latter!

That particular customer (and others like him/her) may just have been honestly mistaken. Carelessly, too, in my opinion because I think it was pretty clear what the deal was, but they were probably just honestly surprised due to their misunderstanding. But that ain't Justin's problem, so while civility is obviously always good (though I totally understand how it can be in short supply at 4am!) there's no way he should feel obligated at all to offer any kind of compensation for the ASUS delays.

 

Unfortunately, the customer doesn't have the right to cuss out a company that they wish to do business with and a business has the right to refuse to do business with anyone they do not wish to do business with. If you're going to be rude to me, I'm not likely to want to sell you anything, cause that means I'll have to deal with supporting you down the road if any issues occur and I don't want to have to deal with that. Likewise with ever doing business with you down the road. It isn't hard to find someone else who appreciates your work enough, and losing one customer out of thousands isn't going to break the bank.

 

You guys must work for some interesting companies and never dealt directly with owning your own business. Businesses have the right to refuse service, that is correct. They have just as much a right to cuss out an individual as the individual has to cuss them out. But the customer has no loyalty to a business, but the business has legal loyalties to the consumer ie, they can't go off and start using their credit card number just because they have the information. The business to customer relationship is generally just ONE WAY. It is easy to get heated as a customer, but you are the one that has the most on the line (yes, a LLC can lose money but we know in this situation, Justin can fill any order for a W3J that someone wants to cancel). If any of you have worked customer service, you know the first thing is to please the customer. You don't get short with them, you please them. You want your reputation as a company to be high, and you want possible new customers to know they will be treated well. That doesn't mean roll out the red carpet, but it also doesn't mean to give the customer **** for asking about something they paid for. Obviously Justin doesn't have to give any form of compensation (I think the ability to cancel orders that have been charged is more ethical, which he has done) but he has no right to talk **** about any old/current/ or former customer online or through e-mail. This shows bad business sense and comes off as someone who doesn't care about his customers...

Again, it's a one way road. Customers pay and expect to receive a product. They deserve to have all knowledge about this product and expect questions to be answered. Wether Justin says "ETA ETA ETA" or "Advanced Orders are difficult" doesn't matter to the customer. They might understand the situation but they have no obligation to the company while companies have obligations to the customer. Not sure how you guys don't believe this. I don't expect I would ever buy from a company that is publicly stating that what they are trying to accomplish is "hard" and we should understand the situation from the begining and be fine with it. Most people aren't fine with putting 2k on the line and leaving it out there. To comfort fears, updates and polite responses are very important. I am not baggin on Jason, he has offered updates that have been very helpful but sometimes dealing with a bad customer should be kept quiet and between the customer. It should not be used as an example to SCARE current and possibly new customers.

 

It's my impression that the email Justin received was a lot more severe than a simple asking of a question. It sounded like he was being reamed out for Asus not shipping the laptops on their original estimated date. If the customer did not read the terms of the purchase he was making, he has no right to complain about delays. It was clearly stated that the product was not even manufactured, so the date that it was due to arrive was completely a shot in the dark. A company is not obligated to sit and take a reaming from a customer and then treat him like a king. In the real world, civility goes a long way, and yes, both parties could have been a lot more civil, but I have no obligation to deal with a customer who is rude. If I hand them back their money, I have no responsibility to them.

 

businesses do have the right to refuse.

ne ways its human nature to blame or get mad at someone. in this case, the person had no way of expressing his anger to the people in taiwan and so he turned to Proportable because he was the next closest thing. i believe this is not a very mature way to deal with the anger. i myself have been patient and know that the delay is not the resellers fault. but you just get irritated by the fact that they pushed it back nearly a month and a half. some people are more patient than others some are not. people have their own way of releasing their anger. in this case, though very not adult like, he had to tell someone.
i know that its not just the people buying thats all stressed out, im sure all these resellers are stressed having to deal with these delays.
and im pretty sure no one said it was gonna be released on a certain date.
ETA is the key word.
so i dont think no one is to be blamed.

 

I am a 100% wrong? I think you are the exact type of customer businesses want then. One were the customer is wrong and the business is right... That leads to getting taken advantage of but if that is your thing. And deserving doesn't have anything to do when you purchase with hard earned money. That rich kid in your highschool who treats everyone bad might not deserve a **** thing, but that doesn't stop his dad from buying him a new BMW when he turned 16.

 

Dude - the way I take it, someone was pissed they had to wait longer than expect (due to no action on ProP's part) and demanded Justin take more money off of this order...that's a threat and maybe even blackmail..."if you don't take off more money I'm going to cancel or blah blah blah".

In a perfect world, consumer/business loyalty would go both ways b/c that way both sides are getting what they want. What incentives would someone like Justin have to come in here, waste his time posting and giving discounts to forum members, if customers had no loyalty. Some people will spend an extra couple bucks (figuratively not literally) if it means continuing business with a company they've done good business with before or ones that have some value add (ie...in depth knowledge of products). Otherwise, businesses would be a bunch of used car salesmen selling on dollar rather than product and value.

And the customer is NOT always right. If someone is being beligerant, they deserve to be put in their place. EVERYONE deserves respect...not just the customer.

 

As I said, ProPortable doesn't need to take anything off the order. Trying to get something for nothing is wrong. The problem lies in the dealing of the situation. The customer asked for "compensation", most likely monetary, and Justin owes them nothing but politeness in his response. That is all I am saying. Most people are used to dealing with Big Companies.. ie best buy. If they give an ETA, and it is missed then , at times, there is compensation. I understand ProPortable would lose alot of money doing that, but having a customer who might be used to that asking for some compensation is not wrong and should not be dealt with as a public specticle. I am not saying customers should call up and swear and cuss out businesses, I never said that was right. But I did say that the business has more in their favor by taking the higher road with a customer than the customer taking the higher road. Dealing with a ****py customer politely is better than dealing with a customer badly and losing that customer and any of his friends/family that would have made GREAT customers. Granted it is not my business so obviously Justin can do what he wants but I can have my opinions and express them.

 

Alright, I'm addressing this from the perspective of a customer of PROPortable, as well as someone who has worked in computer sales previously. Justin's handled my order - which, mind you, had some complications due to my credit card company - with respect, due diligence, and more attention than I have expected or received from any company. Perhaps if Justin had received the same level of respect from this customer, the outcome would be different...


On a slightly differnt note, in response to Barrok - Even the most customer-service savvy business will encounter pricks, and depending on the status of the company it will impact the course of action. IMO, "The Customer Is Always Right" translates to "This company needs to get out of the red and into the black, so fix it, make a sale, and move on". The phrase "Buyer Beware" is more appropriate here - not beware of a scam, but be aware of what you are purchasing and the accompanying specifics. The majority of consumers (and people for that matter) are ignorant and lazy, qualities which feed into one another. Had someone done their homework before purchasing, perhaps they wouldn't have anything to complain about. Especially in this matter, there is a plethura of information out there that they could leverage to make their decision and understand the current state of the W3J. They obviously made no attempt to gain any level of comprehension.

Lets say this "John Doe" got to JFK airport in NY and bit-ched his plane was late 3 hours (trust me, it happens enough). He's gonna be told to sit down shut up, and enjoy his in-flight pretzels - or find another airline. Planes can't materialize out of thin air, and neither can a product for purchase. Sorry for the ranting, but this pisses me off bigtime. I've had to work with customers who have physically demolished their computers and then asked why we won't replace them under warranty, basically causing a tremendous raucous. Bottom line for me - I've seen the phrases "ETA" and "W3J" together more times thanI've heard "Paris Hilton" and "Sex Tape" - and believe me that's a LOT. So, with that, I agree with Justin 100%. Its not worth his resources of money, time and effort that could be put towards processing someone else's order.

 

Why would Justin want to come in here and post? My Friend, Capitalism! Better Customer service = more customers = more profits. Businessmen don't usually do something if there is no alterier motive (profits) behind it. From personal experience (i ordered a W3J but later canceled because I needed my laptop before finals) I wouldn't have ordered from ProPortable because I have a tough time ordering from smaller companies, but once I found this forum and saw his updates and posts, it really made me see the "man behind the business." Because of these posts I made a pre-order. Even though I canceled, His posts showed me more customer ser vice and he had a customer (asus's fault I canceled, nothing against ProPortable or Justin) and would have received more profits.

 

i just wanna add....

Chill ppl... W3J is on its way and oh btw 3dmark05 score...3917

 

Airplane comanies are one of the BEST at offering compensation for late flights and delays, so that example might have not been the best to pick. As for your situation about demolished computers, again you treat the customer with respect but they know darn well that what they did to their product was their fault. In this situation, a customer wants information about his purchase which he has yet to receive. He has the right to ask for compensation, and Justin has the right to offer none. But again, there is no reason to treat him unfairly or use him as a specticle. Sorry, but as a customer that is how I feel. If I contact Justin through e-mail, it stays between him and me. I would expect the same for Justin.

 

I gotta tell ya Justins posts get more debate than anyone else around here.

 

Last post for me on this, but this is what it comes down too....

If Justin expects his customers to understand ETA and that the product might be late and that we should not complain about it, it is fair for customers to not hear his complaining about how hard advance orders are, when he knew before hand that it would be hard.
Seems logical.

 

^ I think we all have the right to complain until we're blue in the face and pissed off mofos.

 

Sounds to me like that customer was picking a fight with you, Justin. I just placed my order, too, but I was well aware beforehand that I should expect delays with it. I think that on occassion a customer has a right to complain but it has to be accompanied with reason and patience. It sounds to me that this customer had already made up his mind that he was being screwed over and didn't even want to hear Justin explain his position. "The customer is always right" attitude is great and all, but what if the customer is a total idiot?

 

Interesting to note that airline companies are also notorious for losing money. Coincidence?

 

Speaking as a ProPortable pre-order customer AND as someone who has run a small business (liquor store, believe it or not), the important thing is that it's a free country. No one violated any laws or any rules or anything. In fact, this whole exchange wasn't all that out of the ordinary (as Justin can probably attest to, unfortunately).

ProPortable is Justin's business. And a good one, too, based on my personal experience and those of others on this forum and others. It was his choice to offer a pre-order at all -- esp. considering the debacle last time -- and he backed that up with as many disclaimers as necessary to give his customers all the important info (or rather more than enough disclaimers here). It was also his choice to refuse to offer compensation for ASUS's missed shipment and the resulting delay. And also his choice to post about a customer he felt was especially aggravating. I'm sure he knew exactly what he was doing each time, and all of those choices are entirely his prerogative. My personal opinion is that his refusal to offer compensation was entirely justified, and his conduct regarding this offer of pre-ordering has been on the whole exemplary. His decision to air out this e-mail with the forum wasn't what John Q. CustomerService would do. But c'mon, the whole pre-ordering thing has been nuts and a lot of work, and most of us aren't at the peak of our tolerance at 4:00 in the morning.

As for this customer, it was also his choice to pre-order a W3J from Justin. His choice to not pay attention to the disclaimers. His choice to mouth off to Justin when he learned of the delay. His choice to demand compensation. Whether or not his expectations were justifiable or not, it's a free country and he can say or demand whatever he wants. And Justin can react any way he wants (well, aside from punching this customer in the face or something). My personal opinion is that this customer was a fool, but that his behavior is nothing out of the ordinary -- all business owners experience this sort of thing all the time.

We're all entitled to our opinions about proper business conduct. In many situations I would agree with much of what Barrok has said. But with some perspective, lets realize that all this is just our opinions and no one, Justin or this customer, did anything totally out of whack. Lets put away the pitchforks and torches.

 

On the bright side, there is now one less idiot between me and my W3j.

 

Wow.... my late night thoughts sometimes bring out some interesting conversations..... wow... that's all I can really say. I'd like to point out a couple things and answer a couple questions and comments that were made in the last 4 pages or so.

1. I could be talking about you, but as long as I don't mention your name and the basis of the what was said has a direct impact on say... people of this forum, then yes, "an anonymous patron said this" is totally acceptable in my book, just so it doesn't happen again. I'm not putting up personal information and giving the person a name or even a sex...... and I'm not saying so and so just got a divorce and had to cancel their order because their wife is taking everything..... This really plays on a little on everyone in this forum... both those with advanced order from us... those who may order something someday.... current customers... and just the general Asus crew...

2. Yes, the customer is always right....... or at least that's something the employees I pay try to follow. Yes, people are stupid, that's a given... but even those I employ are told to tell the inquiring customer what's what when they feed you a line of bull or clearly have no idea what they're talking about. As for me, I've built a rep for this company and it'd take a lot for me personally to bring that down, especially when a situation like this only happens say.. once a year or twice, maybe.. I made it clear that this was a service and I was willing to offer this service to mainly the forum members (at least that's the only place I mentioned the page was up).

3. A pain in the butt before the sale translates into problems down the road 99% of the time. I'm not in business to work miricles..... jerks are jerks and although I could always see where people are coming from, in a case like this, the person didn't want to cancel their order but once they get the product, they don't need us anymore either... So, I'd bet on a completed transaction like this one, I'd tell the person there's nothing we can do about the delays which Taiwan creates.... I mean we deal with Fremont and something that Taiwan does, they don't even have any control over.... so that's ridiculous to expect. I've got far too many of these advanced orders to be walking the line with someone like this who expects far more than we can offer. I don't like doing it, but by voiding out their order, I actually did them a service. They didn't like the wait and they wanted to be compensated and so on and so forth..... ok, well I'm sorry, I'll just cancel that out for you and bingo, bango.... the order never existed and you can find it elsewhere. Money is money, but it's situations like these that prove to myself anyway, that I'm not in this for the money.... never was... the day I am is the day I sell the company because there's no money in hardware (that's a universal given) but sales are sales. When someone wants to give you their money and you don't want to take it, it means you're got standards which money can't buy.....

4. Rejecting a computer sale isn't like segregation or anything... it's not like I own a Burger King and refused to wait on someone clearly wearing the required shirt and shoes.... We reject orders everday... some automatically that come up with stolen or otherwise fraudulent information and some manually which pass certain tests, but have other red flags which we deem fraudulent. In the end, if we miss something, we lose money. However if we cancel what may have been a perfectly legitimate order which was just placed by someone who couldn't type properly.... we just don't make money..... coming out even is a lot better than paying for some computer some theif ordered.

5. I just made the post because of how I felt at the time. I don't take everything personally, but the email was addressed directly to me (not sales)... probably because the advanced order pages say to contact me if there is an issue.... but that's directly to me and the questions where then "what are YOU going to do"... not "what is proportable or asus going to do". It's one thing if we over estimated and had a shipment come in and then put some people on a backorder because we didn't have enough stock..... or if we said it was in stock and then two weeks later they still didn't get their notebook and they call and we tell them, oh it wasn't in stock when you ordered it. Those situations are understandable and frankly something I would at least ask..... but this is different and anyone who isn't going to be appreciative isn't going to get any appreciation back. We're all in the same boat and Taiwan doesn't have a cpntracted set time for delivery or they'd knock the cost down.... so this is something that was expected out of my pocket. I didn't expect 4 pages of back and forths by everyone, but I appreciate both sides and honestly love that the passion I have for everything is something a lot of you share...... this was slightly off topic, but on topic just enough to be right for the forum..... since there's no other real "news", I'm glad I could offer something up for debate.

.... with that, the latest on the W3/W2 shipment is always in our news thread here on the forum and on their respective product pages..... all the forum advanced order customers have been told if they can't wait till the middle of the May for the ETA and lets just say.... the end of June...... they can contact me and just let me know what's going on. I need to know what's going on so if anything at all happens I know who needs to be contacted and I'll have an understanding that certain people simply need something before a certain date...... So the reason I said... June isn't because I expect it to slip again (if it does I'm going to blow a gasket myself) but when know when the ETA is, we know we have to ship on at least 3 different days...... we've got weekends in between and we totally could get screwed by customs and have a hold up there...... so if the 15th is the ETA, anytime in May is also an ETA... just a little wider..... stuff happens.

Anyway...... you guys all still amaze me... it's responses like these that got a lot of your noticed for the monthly MVP nod..... not just from me about posts I made.... but nice responses to slightly off the wall threads..... Keep it up.

 

That's one way to think about it.... and honestly I've got to look at the best interest of the group as well. My big reasoning for only allowing orders from people who could accept being billed as it was processed and trying to cut down on the after order changes was because that all would have added to the overall time for delivery and would at least slightly affect everyone.

.... I think this was a W2 order.. I'm not sure..... but the idea is good.

 

Points well made on both sides. However, I just wonder about one thing. Justin, if you're not in it for the money, how do you make a living?

 

I won't add too much, most of it has been said, but I just want to say that Justin's attitude convinced me to buy from him, and he was personally helpful to me when I was trying to order. I have no problem with what he did, and I hope he keeps it up. He just wants to sell ASUS computers, and when someone goes psycho on him, I don't think he should be expected to put up with it. If I order again Justin, you will see my name coming through your site. Keep it up.

 

I had some slight problems with my order and my bank dropping the hold that was placed on my order. Justin was super helpful through e-mails. He kept an eye on my order to make sure everything would go through. He replied very fast to my e-mails and never left me hanging without information. I for sure will be ordering future parts or whatever I need through Porportable I always appreciate good customer service.

 

Ever seen the sign "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?

 

Whoever this is..... is a complete moron, every time you have posted you have made it absoloutely clear that the delivery times are just estimates are ultimately out of your control, personally I think you have been quite realistic in giving delivery times.... you will always get someone trying it on!

 

That customer (or ex-customer) can go pound sand.

 

I read through all that and can't help but think Barrok might be that customer?

 

W3J Rulzzzz ....

 

Highly doubt it

 

Dude, I am not that customer I have had nothing but good things to say about dealing with Justin personally (he can be a smart ass at times, but who isn't ). He is working his butt off trying to hook you guys up and I wouldn't take that away from him. I just feel this experience brought up some of my opinions on being a consumer and thought I should express them

 

The only thing I can say is .. nobody's always right: customers are jerks sometimes, and businesses can be too.
In this case, however, I think it's pretty clear which was which. And I totally cannot blame Justin for coming here to vent; considering the trouble he went to setting up the advanced order, getting chewed out over it couldn't possibly be fun. I guess it's like they say .. "No good deed goes unpunished."
This just reminded me .. You guys read Acts of Gord? Funny stuff

 

Now this thread didn't need any more life put in it, but since I've been pretty busy all weekend I just wanted to make one last comment and I'll put this to rest.

... I managed to make it through our first 2 1/2 years in business where if we broke even that was a lot..... we put more money into advertising these notebooks than Asus did... and we never really got anything in return. The last 3 1/2 years or so have been very good, but it's a give and take this business was not started for "money's sake" and it can't continue to be that way. For the just slightly double digit employees we have (during peak times), there's enough business to keep things going and I can make a decent living off of that. I also have a small design firm which is where I do what I was taught by trade..... and I've been working to really combine the two this year..... I get by very well, but I've also worked very hard for it. Where I say: "there isn't any money in hardware" is because it's not a secret how much money there is in hardware, and once the credit cards take what they take and you pay your people to build the system or whatever.... the actual "profit" is single digits..... and you've got to warranty it... it isn't a business for people who are in it for the money - although there are plenty who are and they usually don't last long. With regards to this advanced order.... I could so be paying someone to do this, it's just that no one wanted to handle it and eventhough I could make them, I guess.... their point of wanting to help customers with currently in stock systems did make sense. So in terms of running this advanced order it was something I really did for the forum members...... just like my participation here isn't something I'm paid for and honestly, only once a year has that activity seemed to give our company anything back monetarily. For me, I don't get anything else out of it..... so whether I paid someone else to come in here and help out or whatever....... it doesn't change what I get out of it. I come here becuase I like it here and I enjoy the community... and as all of you know, it's addicting!