N56VZ or Y580

Hey everyone, this is my first post here and I would like to have some advice, which of the notebooks (ASUS N56VZ or Lenovo Y580) I should buy.

The situation is the following: I want to replace my 3 year old notebook, which is an Acer Apire 5739G, with one of the named laptops above. The Acer is pretty outdated now and I really wish to have something which lasts long (~4 years) and can ensure good performance and mobility in future. The usage is widely spread (multimedia, CAD and simulation software, office and also gaming)

After long research I came to the N56VZ with i7, GT650M and an amazing looking design and the Y580 with nearly the same specs but with even better graphics (GDDR5) but IMO the design isn't an eyecatcher.

I can't decide between them as I really don't know what is the better way. I saw the benchmark of the GT650M for Max Payne 3 and it won't be possible to play it on High settings, which is a bit of a shame. The Y580 provides an overall better performance (possible to play MP3 on High) and it gives me a better feeling for upcoming games in future.

The probably best way would be the ASUS with one of the GTX graphics, but I'm not sure if they will release a new model for the N serie in near future.

So, what should I do in your opinion: Waiting another month, getting the Lenovo for having it a longer time, or should I go with the Asus and get used to play modern games with medium-low settings?

 

Funny thing, benchmarks. For example, the gtx670/75 is a fermi card. It smokes the 660m, but draws twice the amount of power to do so. Meaning that if you have alienware/rog style cooling on that gtx, it will run well. And the standard issue 660m will seem less appealing. But the score is still comparable while drawing only 35-46w or so.

In the same vein, the kepler cards could then overclock like crazy, because they have so much to go on. Some 3dmark11 scores with the g55/650m are pretty high, for example.

Thing is that if you buy either a y580 version with the 660m or the n56 with the 650m, or a larger top with a heavier card again - you will still have to play on reduced detail in the latest games, if you don't want to create some special cooling solution.

The question is how comfortable the laptop is running at "acceptable" performance. And that is.. subjective, obviously.

And if you care the most about gaming performance, you should probably wait until the gtx680m cards turn up. You should be able to fry a steak on it, just not as fast as on the fermi cards - but it will also have much better performance compared to 660m and 650m.

There are a few things that needs to be sorted out with the kepler cards, though. All the kepler cards use this dynamic overclocking/boost schema. And it turns out that on the setups that don't have very generous cooling, and extreme timing, the actual benefit of higher timings doesn't turn up.

The same thing happens with gddr5 ram versions of the card. Seen that with several cards so far on the tests, at least, that the gddr3 and 5 versions of the same card score the same. And that's because of the timing on the ram, possibly the front-bus, and possibly together with power-saving functions on the chipset, or voltage outputs. That the timing settings just aren't high enough to benefit internally on the card along with the broader bus. Meanwhile, it draws a bit more power, just for the gddr5 ram - for no real performance improvement on normal timing.

What's absolutely certain, though, is that unless you have those laptops with the larger cards married to the wall-socket, they're not going to perform well. So that's something to think about when wondering about if it's worth it to wait and get the absolutely shiniest new chips.

... I mean, I'm not buying a laptop for ultra-high gaming when I'm looking at something without christmas lights and dual exhaust. I'm buying one for "good enough" performance (while running cool) with an hdmi out. And that's where the y580, n56, gigabyte, sager, etc, with the 650/660m cards turn up. On that "low-powered gpu, but pretty good performance" segment. With different up and downsides.

(Another thing you could consider is the n46. 14 inch with the same specs - or at least there should be a version like that - as the n56. Same category of performance, slightly lower battery-use, and still good enough cooling to drive the 650m).

 

Thanks for you answer, nipsen!

I forgot to mention that I don't want to have a mobile BBQ with me. These heavy NBs with about 4kg aren't the thing I would like to carry with me. The 14 inch variant is a bit too small for me to work outside and in university.

I also know that there is no notebook which stays cool and provides the best performance as well. But I kinda search something that offers the best from both sides and I also don't think that the GTX660 will get so much hotter, as it will be in the same small Lenovo body as the GT650 in the N56. Also, why would Lenovo even release such kind of notebook when the GTX would have that high power losses?

Maybe I should wait for the temperature tests for the Y850 and compare it with the N56. If there is really a significant difference then I would go with the N56 anyway, as it's not fun to play on hot stones.

 

Besides, the keyboard on the y580 is sexy. The curves..

But, well.. the thing about this is the dynamic overclocking. Everyone says that, you know, the gddr5 ram is faster, and it should wipe the floor with the lesser models. And the "higher standard timing"(read: overclock) on the gtx version in that line of cards will give you a huge boost, and so on.

The problem is that it doesn't seem to translate into real results on laptops. I'm not going to say it can't possibly be worth it, but I'm not so sure that the increase is so incredible as some seem to think. I.e., the old fermi cards still perform better than either on standard timing. So.. what are they trading when increasing the clock-frequencies and the timing on the 660..? I mean, it is the same chip as the 650m, you see..

So do you actually get a stable performance increase without messing with the settings? That would be great. Will it have higher, but still acceptable heat levels.. possible. But I'm not completely convinced it's not a setup specialised for quick bursts, you know, like in CAD or OpenGL guis, rather than games.

 

Yes well, I am not that experienced with OCLK but I think it isn't a permanent solution anyway. This would probably lower the notebook's lifetime and also ends your warranty immediately?

For all who already bought the Asus N56VZ: Could you share your impressions so far (especially about performance and temperature while gaming)?

 

Y580 is just out but there is no review yet. I expect notebookcheck.net will do one very soon

 

I am really looking forward to the review of the Y580.

I was told that a review for the Asus N65VZ on notebookcheck will be released by next midweek (06-20-12).

 

no, of course not. Like I said, the gtx version comes with an increased clock frequency from the factory. Lots of card versions specified like that from the manufacturer of a particular brand, like Alienware, or MSI, and so on.

And you overclock via software now. Don't even need a soldering iron.. Actually, the trick now is to find the best underclocked frequencies that ensure the best battery life at the needed performance.

But what I meant was that the kepler cards.. 660m, 680m, 650m, etc., have this dynamic overclock and underclock function. It's not something you control yourself, it's included in the logic on the card. And this has a peculiar effect on the performance on laptops. Possibly because of low power output, low/turbo-boost bus-speeds, or a combination. That it seems to just even out everything, and shave off the "expected" performance increase for gddr5 ram, etc. Meaning that increased timing on the card might actually not give you much of a performance increase, except in extremely specific circumstances.

We'll find out soon enough, though.

 

Heck yes, this is exactly the comparison I want ay. I was originally looking at the Over Priced fascination that is the Macbook Pro with Retina Display but then saw the Y580 and N56VZ for much cheaper and round the same specs . . . the ability to compare these would be awesome.

 

Hehe, well I have decided myself to get the Asus, but now the notebook isn't available here until 2012-07-12. Seems like they didn't expect that it sells so good.

Maybe the review to the Lenovo will be out before, but I heard the HDD has some heating problems due to the fail placement in between CPU and GPU.

 

I wouldn't touch Lenovo with somebody else's money but that's me

 

Yeah the Lenovo is sounding like an engineering failure but the review/s should be interesting, especially for comparison.

 

And why do you say so? Look at IdeaPad subforum, where some people got their Y580 and are happy with it.
I'm standing exactly before same choice and probably go for Y580, mostly because it's available right now and I'd have to wait for Asus for over three weeks.
But reading peoples impressions, I must say that there are less complains about Lenovos machine. Of course this is not the best way to judge but in my opinion, "real" review aren't either - it's still people who review.

Edit: Maybe I was a little to fast with saying that there are no complains. There are some cases where drive is getting really hot under heavy load -> link

 

I just mentioned that issue 3 posts before

But yes, that's excactly the reason I rather don't buy the Lenovo.

 

yup, exactly what my comment was aimed at Draghmar

 

I was talking mostly to BiancaL My fault I didn't make quotation there

 

Hehe, that was a double quotation fail then

 

No complaints???? I've seen TONS of complaints, esp about their Ideapad line. I remember reading that the Y560 had lots of heating problems and other problems. I'm not even talking about the G series. Their warranty for the Ideapad line is sh** too.

A friend of mine was very excited about ordering their T lap last year and it was quite expensive. The screen turned out to be awful and he had a lot of other problems.
Lenovo isn't IBM!

Sorry, there are other options on the market.

 

This works both ways, you know...I have few friends with Lenovo and they doesn't complain. I've heard from someone from computer shop service that Lenovo has lowest return rate from all brands they sold...

I don't like to sound like fanboy - I do believe that all brands made better worse hardware in their life. Asus was no exception. I'm pretty sure that if some brand was so bad then it wouldn't sell enough to make profit.
And to be honest I've seen a lot of complains about everything, so I'm used to them.

But I understand that everyone can have its own point of view. For example I don't like D-Link and wouldn't recommend them to anyone.

BTW I know that Lenovo was bought by some China manufacturer but that doesn't matter so much because most hardware (and more) this days is from China or Taiwan. And even if not it still can have some flaws, like my Canon 40d which was made in Japan and few months after I bought it I had to send it back because there was problem with shutter (common problem with this model).

 

Notebook Check's ASUS N56VZ-S4044V Review (in German): Test Asus N56VZ-S4044V Notebook - Notebookcheck.com Tests

Note that the German N56VZ-S4044V is different to the US/Other, ASUS N56VZ-DS71. ie The screen on the N56VZ-S4044V appears to be a TN Panel going on the color reproduction values from that review, but I heard the N56VZ-DS71 uses a IPS panel . .