Possible battery recall looming - just trying to give you the facts...

Ok, well the last thing in the world I want to see is a recall of any kind on any Asus system. In this case, like most of the world, a possible recall may happen with some of Asus' batteries at some point down the road. Like all top brands, Asus mainly uses Sony batteries in their systems, or at least they did. Sony provides a majority of all cells in all notebook computers in the world... so it's no surprise... they make great batteries and Asus uses nothing but the best. I know that 90% of all 2005 Asus models had Sony cells inside, although this year there are some models with different cells (I believe the W7 uses a panasonic battery actually), but never the less, we may see something go down at some point in the future.

So far, to date we've seen the problem with Dell...... then Apple.... and today Toshibia. Sony hasn't done anything with their own systems yet (which I assume wouldn't happen till they very last moment), but the issues are common to all. Now, I forget the exact number, but something like 1 in 2,000,000 Dell laptops caught fire..... or whatever that number is. That number is something I think companies are going on. So basically, if Asus only has 1,000,000 systems out there with Sony batteries, in theory, based on those averages - they may not ever see the batteries cause any problem. Also, based on those numbers, it may be prudent for them to simply deal with a single lawsuit if and when something does occur. When it comes to something like this, it's always one dollar figure verses another... The car companies do this all the time... if a recall is going to cost $50m and all possible lawsuits if they lost would cost $10m - why do a recall, right?

Anyway, I'm only bringing this to the forefront because I know that Sony cells are used in a lot of Asus models and although I don't think there is anything to freak out about, everyone should know that most notebook batteries in the world use Sony cells - so it's something that should at least be on your mind. You have a better chance of dying in a plane crash, but just be aware. Personally, I believe that all of the buyers of Sony that are currently starting recalls will eventually use that in a collective suit against Sony, which in the end will be the company pay for a majority of the cost. It's my opinion that only then would Asus get involved, as long as Sony is footing the bill and at that point everyone may be entitled to a new battery.... which is pretty cool. Asus simply couldn't afford to do something like that though, or at least that's my impression based on what I know of their sales and margins.

As a footnote, the voluntary recall Asus had last year for Z71v batteries that didn't take a full charge after only a couple months came as a fully backed recall from Sony - considered a limited issue by Asus until December when Asus started to replace some of the already replaced batteries. They found out by the end of the year that there was actually a manufacturing process issue which required those batteries to be repalced again. So, although Asus uses a lot of Sony cells, I'm not 100% sure if they're all the same cells.... I know for a fact that some of the cells on the higher end models are better and are physically a different model number........ Asus may be in luck because only one Sony lithium-ion cell was actually what was recalled in all of these recalls around the world to date.... So, it's possible the only batteries effected may even be Z71v batteries and anyone whose got a serial number starting with a number over I believe 58 may be in the clear.

Just wanted to start a dialog and see if anyone may have any questions or concerns as it really isn't a reason not to buy an Asus system, or a laptop in general.... so feel free to post anything on topic.

 

I dont think Asus owners should have anything to worry about. I just hope others dont get scared and not buy an Asus, or sell theirs off lol.

 

That's my concern and naysayers will say "well that's because you sell them"... No, that's not the reason, but everyone can have their opinion.... Asus makes a great system, number one....... and in the end if there is a problem they're going to take care of it...... but any problem is really shared by just about every computer maker, so if someone passes on an Asus for something else because of what batteries were used, that's not really bright, because it's something probably every decent computer maker will be dealing with.......... I'm at least here to tell you that I know Sony batteries were deffinately used prior to the Centrino Duo models because Sony made the best batteries in the business...... other companies right now will want to keep that a secret...... But anyone who has the guts to ruin their battery and try to break open the case..... you don't need to know the model number really.... if they're green cells they're made by Sony... I think purple cells are Panasonic....... white cells are someone else.... and so on and so on.... but again, I'm also pretty positive that the specific model number cells in question aren't the ones being recalled by other companies.... but we'll see what happens.

 

Any idea what batteries brand new laptops coming out in the following months will be using? (w3j with Merom, V1J(p) etc...)?

 

Sure as hell hope they arent Sony batteries. Might catch fire.

 

It's really just about all manufacturers that are going to face the same problem as Asus so if you're going to run from buying an Asus to something else based on the fact they use Sony battery then keep in mind you'd better rule out a bunch of other notebooks. This past weekend a battery went up in flames at LAX airport and that was an IBM ThinkPad that had no recall out whatsoever:

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3172

That one in 1,000,000 chance of a fire occurring even if you do have a faulty battery means you're pretty safe. More likely you'll be in a car accident than have a battery explode on you.

 

well i hope asus recalls affected batteries, regardless of such a low % of failure.

 

But agian, recalls are usually only put out there for blatently obvious issues where something doesn't work..... No ONE has recalled these Sony cells without multiple counts of their systems catching fire because of it and you can BET there were already multiple suits against those companies by the affected parties.... We don't hear about those things, but I can guarentee you that's the case. They're not recalling them out of the goodness of their heart or even because of a little bad press.... it was one or the other and that's either pay for the one or two systems that may ever had a problem in the world and pay a ton of money if anything happens...... or go through the cost of paying to ship all batteries back around the world and pay for new batteries to be made and then pay for those new batteries to be shipped back out to consumers. Just like any other company, that's what they face and if it's cheaper to replace only those that run into issues, than that's what they'll do. In Dell and Apple's cases, just the bad press after multiple systems had caught fire is one of the biggest reasons they had to go through with it. So, basically, until you have a public display of an Asus system burning down a house on the evening news - don't expect a recall unless in a suit to Sony from the computer sellers Sony is forced to pay for all of the recalls.... then you'll see everyone get into the act.

Again, you must remember, there are different sony cells, they do make great batteries and there are no indications they are the same cells in those batteries that have been recalled by other manufacturers to date...... and no one has had any problems either.

Basically, your battery is going to get super hot before anything happens. The problem is in those people who don't think that's a big deal and never report it. They're not just catching fire....... the problem would cause the battery to overheat first and anyone with a centrino system that gets above 100C - you should be calling Asus to have them check it out regardless...... but as long as your battery is fine and staying at a reasonable temp, there is no reason to worry. Like Andrew said, there's a better chance of being in a car accident.... those are good odds and frankly ones that we should all have been aware of for years...... computers have always had a chance of malfunctioning and in the course of doing do - perhaps catching fire.

 

the 1 in 1 000 000 is based on what stats? of reported cases that gets press? my prediction, we will see more and more bad press on battieries and in my opinion for the better. to not only force companies to recall batteries but also to force companies to look for a real solution to what seems a growing problem.

just like to add, theres no problem with buying an asus laptop, or any other laptops because of this issue, but i personally wouldn't go about defending the position of companies on battery recall. i hope it doesn't rely on a incident which causes human casualties for the industry to stop and say "we have got to get all those batteries back and fix the issue."

 

Linsook - You're trying to say that I'm sitting here defending not recalling the batteries, are you? I mean, you could actually read through my opening post and claim that's my position? I think the fact that we sell Asus laptops sway the way a lot of people may read my posts. I'm not defending doing anything.... all I'm saying is that since no one physically could tell without destroying their batteries, there are many Asus laptops with Sony cells and that's simply a public service. What I then want to make clear is that there are different model numbers used by Asus than what have been recalled..... this info can be searched upon in google and only the old Z71v batteries can I prove are the same model number cells as those recalled in all of those millions of Dells and Apples...... Everything Sony makes isn't having this problem, but it's a physical problem.. there is a solution and that solution went into affect in January as they notified Asus in December that they found the problems with the Z71 batteries were a physical manufacturing defect they found in the actual design of those cells - I'm assuming this is where this case is stemming from because what I've read and heard about this issues with Dell and Apple, it's a "physial manufacturing defect in the design of how the cells are made"...... so they know what was cuasing it and the're fixing them..... So that's why I don't believe these is anything to even consider worrying about on any Core Duo Asus because after the issues with the Z71v - they wouldn't get any more of those batteries in until Sony fixed the problem they were having, which was all taken care of by January.....

If a laptop catches fire, someone is going to talk, especially if it happened after the recall. I mean, we certainly need to assume that some of the cases are staged, just because if they can catch it on tape or have a burnt out system to show.. it'll certainly make the news...... but even still, we haven't seen many cases, but there are studies every year that show how many systems catch fire....... I mean going back a decade they've shown these in all the pc magazines. My one in a million comment was based on news reports when the Dell and Apple recalls started which gave both the number of batteries being recalled - which is millions upon millions........ but also gave the number of incidents reported.. which was under a dozen for dell and I think one maybe from Apple... Now, yes, of course there are more, but if one person sued a company like dell, I'm sure it was settled out of court and part of that settlement was to keep the whole situation quiet...... whatever led to the recall isn't something I could answer and it's not something we're ever likely to know for sure, but it wasn't the goodness of their hearts - you can bet that.

I just think I'm in a position as both a system builder and a consumer in which no matter what happens we're really not affected - it's not going to cost us if they make a recall or not and yet if all customers get a new battery, that's a great thing too....... I just know from my years in the business and my many more years as a consumer...... these are the considerations going down. Right now there is nothing to say Asus is even having a problem and like I said, either someone has a problem and they're hand is forced...... or Sony loses a suit with the computer sellers and is forced to do recalls through all computer makers....... those are the two options. The only Asus system that I've even seen "burnt up" was a system that was in an office fire - the notebook wasn't the cause - and it was something Asus liked to show off because the systems till worked afterwards...... other than that, I think it's up to people to just be proactive and report anything they find not to be working correctly..... don't you? I mean if Asus knew they were making systems with bad batteries, that's another story..... Asus isn't getting the batteries for free and then making a ton of money on their systems because they're using some crap batteries....... this isn't something anyone would have known until Sony physically copped to the problem after they researched it...... and again, it's my opinion that Sony would have only researched it after someone found a problem and it's likely that say a system burnt up - say it was from any company... that company was sued or something and the fault in the product was discovered....... then they went back to the source - Sony - and then sony had to try to duplicate the problem and figure out how to solve it. So, my guess is this problem has been known to Sony for at least a year... the solution for at least 9 months and all system makers should have good Sony batteries as of at least the last 6-7 months...... or they used other makers.... I think the only reason the Dell and Apple recalls went into may of this year is because older models were still selling up to that point.. I truely beleive it's a problem that's already been corrected because Sony is still making lithium-ion cells and who would buy them if they still bad... rather who would take the chance?

 

look, justin, i've already read what you wrote in your first post. i am by no means worried of my notebook exploding. all i've said was i would like the affected batteries to be replaced. if thats not going to happen, fine. if it will, great. you don't have to talk to me like i'm going to drive away your customers.

and my last post was more of a response to the stats being brought up. they are very subjective. we don't know how big the issue really is... and like you said, they would never tell us and again, i just hope it really isn't that bad, taking their word on it.

don't take my posts the wrong way, i'm not against you. it's respectable that you've made a thread to inform us all. it is nothing personal, i'm not targeting asus, i'm not talking with just me as a concern, just making general statements.

 

Linsook - my comment to you has nothing to do with customers. I simply asked you if what you said about defending the companies from recall was directed at me..... I know you said "i wouldn't defend....", but I'm simply asking if that was written in regards to a way you took my comment. If I were worried about sales, I wouldn't have made this post. I've always been about informing the community here and getting a conversation started on questions and concerns people might have.... as this type of stuff should be in the open. I also took the rest of your comment exactly as you meant it...... where some may get confused is when you did say "affected" - since we don't have any proof of asus using those model numbers outside of the Z71v - and those were already replaced for another reason.

.... I just want everyone to keep an open eye and report anything out of t he ordinary... My only concern for the entire laptop industry are loss of sales to other companies.... dell deffinately lost and will lose sales due to this problem, but they'll lose them to other makers...... The problem is many, many more notebooks are going to be affected in the end and the only solution to someone who is really freaked out about it would be to not buy a system at all, anywhere........ Now if anyone has any information on the particular cells used in their current laptops, we could create a datebase for to compile systems that have batteries that people may want to keep an eye... or call Asus and see what may be going on...... but we need those model numbers.

 

This is rather scary. I realize that the odds are relatively slim, but I'm not even thinking about monetary loss. Knock on wood, consider your laptop battery exploding at home while you are away. Next thing you know your house is on fire and several lives are at risk. I hope this isn't another Ford Pinto.

 

is there a database showing what battery manufacturer is used to make each battery?

I've noticed that Asus seems to use a particular battery for a LOT of different models...

surely the list wouldnt be too long.


Insane

 

heres another one.
http://flickr.com/photos/stewart/248457222/

http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=35172

 

Thank you, Justin for the heads up.

 

No problem Lisa, but for you... I believe when I checked out my W7's battery is was actually a panasonic, which is what I believe a lot of the newer batteries actually are...

Till we start to see anything happening with an Asus, I'll continue to enjoy all of the Dell converts....

 

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/buyer/news/94952/sony-recalls-laptop-batteries-enmasse.html
http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=35351

finally stepping up...

 

It's OK, I'm not scared, I have this shiny notebook cooler underneath my Asus to protect me!

Oh wait...it's plastic painted shiny silver...and it doesn't cover the battery...and it's from Targus...and I'm a deep sleeper...oh crap.

 

..... did I tell you or what? Sony would in the end, end up paying for everything.... Although they'll want to keep a smile on while saying they're footing the bill, it deffinately takes legal pushing to get a big corp. to that point. Now, where it becomes interesting is when and if Sony taking the blame extends to other companies, including of course Asus.

I have a new theory on this and it comes from a conversation I had last weekend. Because the use of these particular cells is really just between Sony and the company they sold them too... it's possible that action will only be taken by Sony when forced..... so Sony taking the blame and footing the bill doesn't simply mean Sony won't make deals in other cases that aren't specifically stemming from issues with these other recalls UNLESS there is some force applied from the customer (ie: Asus - in this case anyway)...... Now, everyone could call Asus and inquire about the maker of the cells in their particular battery on their particular computer....... enough calls and concern may tell Asus that if their customers are concerned, they should help fight any potential problem. In terms of Asus, this is still certainly up in the air as far as being affected by this issue, but if they are, need to be proactive about it when dealing with Sony...... sometimes the only way to get the ball rolling is to start with a little push.... so go give Asus a call and just voice your concerns.... They may tell you that panasonic makes the battery in your particular notebook and that'll let you sleep well at night!

 

I actually saw a news article the other day on the television that IBM where in fact recalling some of their laptop bateries, as Sony make batteries for lots of manufacturers it could happen to any lapotp, im not worried, if Asus have to recall, at the end of the day its Sony's fault not Asus's.

 

Right.... that's generally why I put started up this thread.

 

Now, I started this thread as fair warning and to just help keep people up on the latest as this story relates to Asus. Now, if you don't know, I've at least told you that at least 90% of Sony's Vaio's are made by Asus, if not all of them at this point...... and many Apples are as well. Asus certainly used Sony's cells prior to this year in probably a awfully high majority of their notebooks...... I don't have any proof of the use of their cells after January 1st of this year though.

Now, Sony has finally recalled 300,000 of their own batteries and obviously Apple has also..... New to the mix is Sharp who is recalling a lot (at least a lot based on the number of systems they sell)... and 100% of Sharp's notebooks are made by Asus... I guess it's not that difficult to have connections when you're one of a handful of large ODM's in the world, but we know there are connections here. The only difference is that Asus has nothing to hide... Sony is going to be paying for all of these batteries.... Well actually, we'll all be paying because Asus' batteries recently went up close to 20-25% and everyone will be upping their price as soon as they bring in new inventory. This isn't really to pay for sony's recall, but the diversion which is said to cost Sony in the $300 million range is slowing down production and eating into supply.... so it's a trend that won't be changing till probably this time next year.

The real question is what will happen with those old Asus batteries with Sony cells. I'm pretty confident the new models aren't using any Sony cells, not even the fixed ones and it's probably because this news was available to Sony and someone like Asus at least a year ago. However, we still have no idea what may or may not go down OR if there really is any issue to deal with. Either way it has to come out and there's no hiding it, whether they want to or not and hiding it would only hurt them in the end which wouldn't make any sense at all. My gut tells me that problems with supply of not only batteries, but also systems may have something to do with Asus actually assembling all of these new batteries for sony, apple, sharp, and others for the recall. Their own battery supply has been pathetic and everything points to Asus being an active member in the situation..... I think if anything, if there is anything to recall, I'd say it might be in their best interest to hold off until they get these other batteries made and have time and supply to handle their own stuff.... Why put more stress on your manufacturing plant when you can have the say?

Just food for thought.

 

Along those lines, then, what would you think the delay for releasing their own model batteries will be? Based on some calculations, I'll probably need a new battery for my Z71v in about a year or so just from regular wear. Do you think Asus will have them available by then? I know right now they're pretty hard to come by.

 

Yeah, our stock of those batteries has been horrible... that and all models for that matter.. I don't know. To be honest with you, in a year, they might be even harder to get. I mean the Z71 only lasted a year and never got refreshed.... when they usually last 3 years with a model. So, honestly, parts might only be made a little while longer.

 

Well now I find out that the Z71v that I bought in 2005 no longer will charge my battery, nor will it start without the AC Adapter.

The Serial # starts with 53NP, but that is on the battery as well as the Z71v.

However, there is another serial on the battery with 70-N9Q followed by a few numbers.

My question is do you think it's a good idea to send my battery to http://www.batteryrefill.com/ ?

Thanks,
Athlon64M

 

wow, you've just revived last last year's thread .

well, i don't really know much about battery refilling. i heard that it's better to buy a new one

 

I did that, and it worked out fairly well. I've looked around, and it seems like there are a few places that have the batteries in stock right now, so I'd recommend buying a new one over getting the cells replaced. However, if you can't find a new one, it's a good second choice.

 

Right, but stock batteries doesn't mean "NEW" batteries. Li-ion Batteries are known to have a pretty bad "shelf life", meaning that batteries that aren't being used are worst off than those that are in use. It's hard to believe but it's a known fact.

 

considering NOBODY had ANY Z71V batteries in stock for months, I think it's safe to conclude that the ones in stock now are pretty new (1-2 months old at the worst)

 

Unless ASUS is still manufacturing other notebooks with the same type of battery, I'm not sure they still manufacture the Z71V battery... So there's a good chance the battery has been manufactured a long time ago, and will be pretty worn out when you buy it.

Perhaps a third-party battery would be a better intermediate solution? That might be manufactured more recently, and you would not need to replace the cells which is pretty fault-prone, I believe.

Athlon64M, the fact that a battery from 2005 died in early 2008 is not unexpected (in case you were wondering ).

 

asus brushed the z71v under the rug and hoped people would forget them. it actually worked for them but at the cost of countless thousands of customers who bought the z71v and swore not to buy another asus. the responsible thing would have been to atleast offer z71 bateries after warranty expired. they never did.

 

i think you should give battery refill a try

 

It died a lot earlier, I just wasn't aware of it cus I bought it for my dad and he mainly uses it as a DTR.