Price vs Performance

I'm here to put things into perspective: I don't think that it is now possible, if it ever was, to call Asus laptops a good value. The prices from the mainstream laptop manufacturers: Dell, Compaq/HP, Acer, and (Gateway?) are just too good. Now my apologies to non-Canadians, but I can only reference Canadian models and prices.

So for example, Dell Cda. is currently selling the Inspiron 6400 (E1505 equiv.) with a Core Duo, ATI X1400 256MB, 120GB 5400RPM HD, 1GB RAM, DVD-RW for just $900. Throw in an extra $40 for the 9-cell battery and it's $940 with some 5+ hrs battery life. What's the closest Asus competitor? I'd probably say it's the A6Jc specs and price-wise. The cheapest sale price I've ever seen on the A6Jc is $1400, but it is typically at least $1500. Let's say for the benefit of the doubt $1400. What do you get for that extra $500 (even more after tax)? You get a Nvidia Go 7300, which is far inferior to the X1400, worse battery life, the same cheap (and arguably uglier) plastic construction, and a smaller 100GB HD. Oh, and a nifty little built-in webcam haha. A $500 camera evidently.

But now you will start talking about Asus' better reputation, customer service, etc. I completely agree. But you also have to keep in mind that the most important components in a notebook are not being made by Asus. CPU, Graphics card, Memory, HD, optical drive, battery, are all made by someone else, and usually the same company who made those parts in that Dell. Those are also usually the parts that are going to fail.

OK fine you say, Asus was never very good at the value segment anyway. So let's take a step up to the S96J/Z96J or A8Jm/F3Jm, all variations on essentially the same laptop for around the same price. These typically can be had for $1600-$1700. So now we're looking at almost twice the price of the Dell. What do you get? You get a bit more powerful components yes, such as an ATI X1600 or Geforce Go 7600. But this power also eats into the battery life: 2.5 hrs or so. Ouch. Half the Dell's. Yes, the graphics are a step up, but they're gonna get outdated in a few months anyway by the new DX10 cards, just like the X1400.

Ultimately you have to look to the bottom line: at least the majority of us without a whole lot of disposable income do. Do you really need all that power? For the vast majority of users, the Dell is more than powerful enough, and also comes with a hefty battery life to boot. The Asus is probably slightly more reliable, but definitely has better customer service. So the question is, is that slight edge in power, and better customer service worth the $500 upgrade to an A6Jc, or $700-$800 before tax upgrade to one of the Asus powerhouses? For that price, you could actually almost buy two of the Dells. So you could go out, buy one Dell, spill coffee on it, drop it on the ground, throw it out of a moving vehicle, or whatever, and still have enough money leftover to buy a new one. Or you could buy the Dell, keep it for 2 yrs, then buy a new one after 2 yrs and that would add up to 4 yrs usage with an Asus, but with more power after 2 yrs.

Asus is a luxury machine. It is a machine for people with lots of money to spend. Like a BMW or Mercedes, it is a powerful, well-engineered machine. Unlike a BMW or Mercedes, there isn't a whole lot to separate it from a Ford/Dell, because the Dell uses almost all the same parts as the Asus. So, yes, the Asus is better than the Dell. But is it worth all that money? No. If money is not an object, or if reliability or loads of power are essential, then the Asus is a good buy. But otherwise you should really be considering the Dell.

 

What about 2-year world warranty as a standard? What about BETTER built quality and design? What about a customer service and people like ProPortable or other sellers who are always happy to help you? What about free (in my case) Bluetooth mouse and solid bag? Besides have you heard about broken Asus laptops? Cause me not. But bad Dell? Hmm, A LOT. Not to mention couple of million batteries to replace. So I think Asus is not SO EXPENSIVE as you think. You pay for some standard etc. Of course is not the cheapest one but I think a lot of people will spend more money just to be sure they have good machine. So like you say, you can buy BMW (Asus is more like Audi )or you can ride with some crappy car like Ford. And of course, both are cars. But Ford is ALMOST like BMW and ALMOST makes a diffrence.

 

You get what you pay for.

 

If cost is your primary concern then look elsewhere but if you value quality at a slight premium then Asus are a serious contender. No gamer is going to be satisfied with an X1400 so to compare a laptop with such a card to one with an X1600 is just wrong as they can not be compared, they are in a whole different league with regards to game performance. Asus excell in performance laptops not budget laptops.

What about build quality? Dell laptops are made so that they can be maufactured for as cheaply as possible, that's just the way it is. When buying an Asus you know you're getting guaranteed quality that is going to last, something that is worth a considerable premium, if it wasn't business notebooks wouldn't be so popular despite their higher prices.

What about design? The inspiron notebooks are probably the most ugly laptops ever created, white bumpers? Wtf? Nigh on every Asus laptop has quality design and this is something people pay a premium for in all walks of life. If they didn't Apple products wouldn't sell so well, nor would designer sunglasses.

The problem you are having with Asus is that they are not great value FOR YOU. You fail to see that other people value many of the extras that you get with an Asus laptop, for a small premium and, as such, an Asus laptop represents great value for them.

 

If you want a dell, get a dell...then post here again when your laptop bursts into flames seriously tho, I own both an asus and a dell and i like them both for different reasons. But every laptop targets a specific set of ppl with specific needs. Dont just speak for yourself, you have to realize that for some (for many in fact) powerful graphics make ALL the difference, and these are not just avid gamers but ppl who need to run demanding 3D processing apps on the go. The most expensive ASUS laptop doesnt even compare to the most expensive DELL, have you seen the price of the XPS series ? You could configure the M1710 to be over $4000 dollars!! or what about the M2010...and i could go on....

I think youre generalizing too much. Asus owners love Asus laptops because it fullfills their needs, the same goes with different computer manufactures out there. This "value" you talk about depends largely upon on one's individual requirements. As for price, its all subjective..and as the saying goes...you get what you paid for.

 

The Asus is sexy. Period. hahha

 

I don't know if my reply is wanted or welcome, but I'm going to give it anyway.
Why I paid EUR 2352 (which is around 3000 USD$) for my V6J, and I did not buy a Dell. And why before that, I paid EUR 1390 (less than 2000 USD$) on an M6Ne, and I did not buy an Acer or a Sony. And why I paid EUR 550 to fix my M6Ne after it was smashed in a car accident. And why I don't regret any of these decisions, although money is an important object for me as I am only a relatively poor PhD student, with close to the base salary in this part of Europe.

0. Because US/Canadian taxes are a joke compared to European taxes (that's partly why it was so expensive)
Later edit. As I found out, Canadian taxes are 20%, US usually 6%. Still I maintain US taxes are a joke compared to (then) Canada and The Netherlands, where they are 19%.

1. (now we start with the true reasons) Because of build quality. Strength and quality of materials.

2. Because of looks. Honestly, and without any offense intended to anyone, all ASUS models that I have seen make any other machines in their class look like either 1. poor, cheap Cinderellas, or 2. cheap kitschy ensembles of glimmering LEDs and shining silvery plastic. (And the V6*-es make all other ASUS machines pale in comparison, as well).
Perhaps some will say that this reason is superfluous, but for me it is not. If I do pay on the order of thousands of EUR, and I would do that anyway for a quality notebook, I want a machine which screams CLASS whenever seen from distance, close-up, front, back, lid closed or open, or any angle
Perhaps I can even promote reason #2 to #1.

3. Component quality in itself. The mainboard on a machine is the most important component in my opinion. You can gather together the best CPU, HDD, video card out there and throw them on a cra_py mainboard, and the result will be guess what? A cra_py computer. That's at least my experience with desktops. And who is #1 (arguably) in the mainboard arena? Well, some say ASUS. I tend to agree.

4. All those little things like: 2year pickup and return warranty, included ASUS-branded notebook mouse (built by Logitech, not A4tech or Genius), included carrying bag and carrying pouch, included ASUS-branded DOS-bootable USB key, triple-language XP Professional recovery disks.

I would say also screen quality, keyboard quality (which are all very good in my ASUS machines), but I have no idea how those compare with other brands, cause I haven't owned other brands. My impression is however that ASUS tend to choose their components rather well, and favouring quality over low price (whereas other brands might do the opposite precisely to lower the price of the machine). Several examples:

* The M6Ne suffered an impact with a freight truck (!!) while in the back of a car. The car was smashed beyond repair, however the M6Ne was only cracked in a corner, and all the components except the (of course) cracked LCD, and the HDD, were physically undamaged.

* The Hitachi Travelstar 4200 RPM 60 GB HDD in that M6Ne was in the corner that suffered the fullest force of the blow. It was curved so that in the end between two opposite corners there was a level difference of 3 mm. That HDD still works today.

* The M6Ne screen, which is absolutely brilliant (as said in my signature ) in terms of viewing angles, brightness, color quality.

About service:
* I paid, as I said before, 550 EUR for the repair of my M6Ne. Those money included the cracked case, and the cracked LCD. The following components were changed: case, LCD, mainboard, CPU heatsink, VGA heatsink, battery. The laptop was returned fixed & working without further questions asked.

Now, these are my subjective reasons for paying a cra_load of money on my ASUS machines. These reasons might not be the best. I apologize in advance to ASUS owners who think my reasons are superfluous, and have much better ones which they know from experience are true. I also apologize to people who have bought or are planning to buy other brands, and believed until now they are (going to) own a machine as good as any other. Because that is simply not true.

Yours truly,

E.B.E.

 

as far as i know Dell (or HP) does not sell 14" notebooks that are relatively lightweight and has a x1600 in it or a Geforce 7600/7700.

brain stew is correct. in marketing terms, "value" has different meaning for different people - and it is NOT necessarily measured monetary value.

 

I still think the best way to guage value, and quality is to see how many notebook need to be repaired. For business users the cost of not having a notebook because its away to be repaired could be far greater than the price of the notebook, so quality is very inportant!

Having worked for a Asus/Acer/Compaq/Toshiba reseller now for close to 2 years I can honestly say that Asus and Toshiba notebooks suffer the least hardware and software problems. From what I have observed, when there are problems with an Asus notebook, they are normally software related, user errors at that.

Personally I feel Asus notebooks are great value to me, as I know that I've got 24months of carefree use out of it. And it looks nice on the eyes.

When last did you hear someone say 'wow thats a nice looking dell'?


Insane

 

I think the s96j competes with the e1505 very closely

The two machines are practically mirror images of eachother. they use the same lcd same size same battery type.

Very little is different except the gpu.


You can get a s96j for around 1100

e 1505 900. 200 for x1600

thats not a bargain but I recomend paying it.

Now, asus has no equivelent to the e1705.


Asus actually has many more different models of nootbooks for sale now in 2006 than Dell which is the worlds largest seller.

Sort of weird. Anyhow, most of them dell has no comparable model.

If you are in the market for a 17 inch gamer, asus has nothing that can even spit at the e1705.

theres no 14 inch or even 15 inch dell gamer notebook. They just dont offer them. So I dont even really know how to compare.

I think I can safely say that outside of the 17 inch notebooks asus is actually the leader in introducing new gpus to the market. I think this is brand new to 2006.

If you are searching for a machine that is in dells more limited line up, and its one of them that is a good value, then consider Dell absolutely.

Dell has quite a few models that are a poor value as well.
I think the e1705 is important to consider for any notebook buyer,
IE would that machine work for you? If so get it. If the e1505 works for you or the xps 1210, consider those. I dont think those are going to work out for most people though.


I personally do not value reliability in short lived consumer electronics too much. 10% at the most. Im buying an asus because its the best value, it buys me the most technology for my money. Other than the e1705 let me repeat that.

 

I just wanted to add to the european poster talking about sales tax

Canadian sales tax is no joke.

I dont know of any european sales tax like that. However I think northern europe and scandinavia is more than canada.

Where are you? canadian sales tax varies by province but its easily 20% Im sure it is in the worlds top 10.

You are thinking about us sales tax, usually 6 % . anyhow, Im clearing that up for you it might be useful someday.

 

Right, my error. I thought Canada and US tax were similar.

European tax is usually 19%.

 

In Poland VAT is 22% (highest possible), but in Germany for example 15% (lowest possible in UE)

BTW I hate VAT, why the hell government should get more money from sold goods then shops (in most cases), and not mentioning even other taxes

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax#EU_countries for a complete list, gravitating around less than 20%, but we're going offtopic.

 

heh I dont think a sales tax comparison is whats appropriate here.

But In canada the government is actually in the business of retail stores.
Totally bizzarre to my american sensibilities.

But that is like their IRS. Making sure no one buys anything tax free.

Just a different way of life you dont think about until you see both sides.


edit I stand corrected.

canada is 14% european union is 19 so all of europe has more sales tax than canada.

What I was trying to explain is that in canada many items are pretaxed as well like beer over 1$ a can and cigarettes 3 times the us price.
To make a long story short, stuff is expensive there.

 

I have to agree, the Asus quality is worth at least a couple hundred to me. Back on topic...

 

Canada is actually only 13% now . GST cut to 6% from 7% and each province differs with their provincial tax. Take Alberta for example, no provincle tax at all o.o .

 

I priced out the Dell e1505, with comparable specs to the Customized W3J that I just ordered. The Dell is MORE expensive, for the same specs/warranty/etc.

The thing about large retailers like Dell, is that they make you get lots of 'optional' equipment, over the standard. As with all types of things, like cars, etc, when you buy a lower base model, and upgrade...it is more expensive than buying a higher-end model with most of those features standard.

Thats the nature of the business. Asus knows that, and tailors to the high-end user. Dell to the low-end.

Pick what works for you.

 

this is an unfair comparison

However I did it anyway.

This is the machine Im trying to get next month

http://laptopmag.com/Review/Asus-A8Js.htm

at dell.com e1505 the same set up using 20% off total is 1545$ Freaky huh?

I personally think asus actually prices their ensemble models using the dell site. I dont want to explain why but take that as a theory and try to disprove it if you are bored.

only its a much higher quality machine and it comes with 512 mb 7700 vs the 256 mb ati.

Now depending on what comes to market first dell can always be cheaper. They both HAVE to beat eachother at some point they would lose money to do it even.
That is market economics and I blabber enough here anyway so Ill stop.



This year Asus is very competitive with dell on price. This year asus will pay for market share. They want your business, even the person who wants to buy the base e1505 theyve got something for you.

 

Why do people buy BMW when there is KIA?

Why do people buy Taylormade when there is Acuity?

Why do people buy Ralph Lauren when there is Walmart?

Why do people buy DFI when there is Asrock?

Why do people buy asus when there is Dell?

Answer: Quality, and status

Discussion closed.

 

It should be 14%, 6% GST + 8% PST. GST drop 1 % since July.
Cheers

 

I got the w7j from proportable and the buying experience was good. However, I have also bought other computers from places like dell and gateway and their buying experiences were good too. The one difference is the attention to detail and the human interaction with asus and proportable. That and the fact that Asus laptops are well built and look great compared to other PC makers.

 

B.C.'s at 14% right now I think. It used to be 14.5%. Hurray for Gordon Campbell (premier of B.C.)!

I see no reason why not to buy Asus. They're relatively well priced, of superior build quality and design, and high end specs.

Also, Asus does have some equivalents to the E1705, under the Multimedia powerhouses.

 

but it is not competitive with the e1705 on price and tech


a7j is a good model? couldnt recomend anyone buy one.

 

I got my A8Ja, specs in my signature, for $1350USD.

For me, it's better than a Dell E1505 because (in order of importance):

1. It has a much better graphics card => big plus
2. It has an integrated webcam, which I use all the time
3. It is a 14" laptop, and that mean better portability for a university student
4. It is better quality
5. It looks better

I admit that Dell does have some pretty good coupon deals, but as far as money vs. satisfaction is concerned, I'm definitely happier with my Asus.

By the way, how do you pronounce Asus? I always thought the accent was on the A, but I called customer support the other day, and the guy put the accent on the U.

 

I think that people are forgetting the Dell Latitude D620 when they are saying Dell has no 14" offering. When we're talking Latitude series there's a huge increase in build quality as well and a standard 3 yr warranty.

 

Use the search, Luke.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=75456

 

I seem to have triggered quite a discussion here. I'd like to address a couple points:

I completely agree. Let's be clear here: I am not saying that Asus is a bad buying decision, or that you should not buy Asus. Totally the opposite. All I am saying is that you should buy Asus for the right reasons. You should buy Asus if you have a bit more money to spend, and absolutely need top-notch reliability, customer service, and performance.

But I've noticed a lot of people here calling Asus a "good deal." OK, that may be true in other countries such as the US and EU, and Asus is just ripping us off here, or Dell et al. are higher priced elsewhere (however from what I've seen, Asus prices are just the same in the US.) But calling Asus a good value, at least in Canada, does not make sense from a price-performance perspective. Asus is not at all price-competitive in Canada. As I indicated before, in Canada, the Dell Inspiron 6400 well-configured is currently selling for $900. The Asus A6J is $1400. And the S96J/Z96J and F3Jm/A8Jm are about $1600-$1700. Considering the specs, I don't think that you could make the argument that the price difference is worth it. The A6J is actually configured worse than the Dell, for $500-$600 more. The X1600/Go 7600 configured laptops are more powerful than the Dell no question. But in the desktop world, I don't think you would ever see anyone paying $800 more to upgrade from a Geforce 7600 to 7800 for example. Yet in the laptop world, somehow this is acceptable. Still, if you absolutely need that power for work or games, then of course the Dell and HP are not options. The thing is, most people think they need all that power when they actually don't. The X1400 actually plays a lot of games just fine, including most of the most popular games out there right now: Battlefield 2, HL2, CS2, World of Warcraft, Warcraft III, Civ IV, etc. And yes, it can even play the latest and greatest like FEAR and Prey with very playable frame rates, albeit at low graphics settings. It will handle Vista with ease. And its battery drain is far less harsh than those above mentioned powerhouses.

The other thing I might point out (and I digress) is that, just because a game is more than 3 years old doesn't mean it's not worth playing. Far more people are still playing CS 1.6 than CS: Source, despite the fact that CS1.6 is about 8 years old (which is literally forever in a world dominated by Moore's Law.) It's not because they don't have the hardware, or even because they don't own HL2. It's simply that a lot of people think the older, uglier CS plays better. There are endless bargain bins full of great, classic games waiting to be rediscovered by many gamers. We don't think, because a song is from the 70's, or because a movie was made in the 50's, that we shouldn't bother to listen to or watch it. Then why would you think this way when it comes to computer games? (Answer: diabolically ingenius marketing people have brainwashed you.)

The point I'm trying to make is: buy Asus for the right reasons. A lot of times, Asus computers are actually a lot more expensive than similarly configured computers from other brands. This is not to say that Asus is not a good computer, just the opposite. Asus is a quality computer, but it commands a premium price. It is a luxury product. At least for Canada and the US, if you buy an Asus simply because you think it is priced better than the competition, I suggest you shop a little harder.

(N.B. When I talk about value, I am referencing purely a price-performance ratio. 3DMarks per dollar or however you want to put it. I do not use the marketing definition of "value" as the value to "somebody", because as we all know, marketing people are full of sh*t, and will claim night is day and day is night if it helps them to sell product.)

 

Well start here

http://www.milestonepc.com/canada/product_info.php?cPath=187_277&products_id=1310

and see what you can put together.

Im thinking, 1200 cnd or much less probably 1k for a complete system. with the x1600 it will stay compatible with software longer.

much better deal.

u need to find the cheapest solo, sata hd and ddr 2 ram.

next essay.

 

Most of the time, Asus is never much more expensive than the competition...maybe Canada is different, I dont know. Gotta say, the poll really speaks for itself.

 

1K? I have to wonder where these numbers keep on coming from when you are actually putting out the evidence to the contrary. Milestone PC S96J configured:

S96J ($700)
1GB DDR2 667 ($140)
Core Duo T2300 ($250)
DVDRW ($95)
100GB 5400 RPM ($151)
Intel 3945 wireless ($45)
XP Home OEM ($100)
---------------
TOTAL: $1479

This is the bare minimum price. Still $580, before tax, more than the Dell. I don't know if the barebones include a battery, I assume they do. Does anyone else have any other suggestions? I don't think I'm the only one who would be very interested to find an Asus that is priced on par with a Dell.

Hard evidence. Please.

Yes, the poll does speak for itself. I guess I shouldn't be surprised of the results in a fanatically pro-Asus forum

 

Heh no

no Im not actually going to shop canadian internet sites for you. Not without an hourly rate involved.

You buy the barebones, you find the cheapest prices on the components

ebay, newegg whatever. Im not in canada. NCIX. Below 1100 Im certain, and it would be money better spent as the machine would have a longer period before it would be obsolete.

Try and find the cpu for cheap and then upgrade it some future date far off.

just the barebones from milestonepc. unless you can find it cheaper somewhere else.
I mean, I dont want to see you stop and post in the forum until youve spent the time to try and figure out how to buy computer equipment online. if youve got time to chatter youre online go figure it out. froogle, proicegrabber whatever.
If youre sure you cant shop like that and you need someone else to do it for you it might not be the project for you.


I mean Im not trying to be personal. But thats all this is about evil sheep. You dont kno how to shop on the internet and all you can do is use dell.com right no . theres no asus.com for you

good luck

 

Please, facts, not rhetoric.

In fact, I have shopped around, and Milestone PC offers some of the best prices in Canada. That's likely one reason they're so popular. In fact, Milestone PC is on record saying on these forums that they make only $100-$200 a laptop. So that means, if that figure can be relied on as factual, that at cost, the laptop still couldn't be cheaper than $1280.

On another note, I've noticed that Asus barebones prices have very little variation. Apparently something to do with Asus policy towards resellers. The S96J can be counted on to be about $700. That means that you would have to obtain the rest of the components, CPU, memory, hard drive, wireless, DVDRW, and XP, for $400 to get to your "certain" figure of 1100 CDN. XP Home is always $100, so that leaves us with just $300 for the rest. A T2300 is almost never cheaper than $250, leaving us with a scant $50 for memory, HD, wireless, and DVDRW. I would like to see anyone price-shop that figure.

 

Ok

$20 an hour. canadian

I will use the internet to make you a s96j for $1100 cnd.


I have talents you dont. This is obvious.

 

Oh really?

And here I thought I was going to do something useful online and make $20 instead of lurking looking for news.


Oh well.

 

I'm not sure what the guy who started this thread's argument is.

Value-wise for basic user components like CPU/RAM/HD, if you don't want an x1600/7600 class card in a <17" form factor and really aren't worried about a computer breaking, Asus might not be a good idea.

But the people who would want that in the first place are basic users, who would definitely value a machine having fewer problems. Though if you really wanted something rock solid if not top performing, get a Sonoma thinkpad or the like. I recommend Dells and lower-end Macbooks to friends all the time in lieu of Asus if I know they're mainly going to use it for email; if they want power and mobility Asus is usually the way to go.

If, however, you're leaning more on the "enthusiast" side and like your games without carrying 10lbs of laptop (I'm assuming case+power adapter) around with you, then there really isn't an option outside of asus. I get compliments all the time for my A8Jm which is even in my own opinion less sexy than a W3J. Then I tell them that my little 14" laptop would cream their DESKtop at any of the latest games.

Yes, then you have the argument that a 7400 will play games just fine. Well, my desktop 9800 pro is faster than a 7400 and it's true that Battlefield 2/Doom 3/HL2 will run just fine on it at 1280x1024, but only after tweaking the settings to figure out how to get acceptable performance. Oblivion just kills my 9800 pro; my 7600 handles it like a champ.

Basically, if you're in this forum you have an idea of what you want and chances are Asus fits the bill well.

 

Good point. Ive seen comparisons like this made for other makes as well, and they rarley hold much value. Logic such as rwie's makes too much sense.

 

You're joking that's the bare minimum, right? Who says you need 1gb of RAM? Besides, buying that separately online from newegg will only be about $80. DVDRW? What about just a DVD reader? 100gb HD? What about a 40gb HD? Don't have to have an Intel wireless card. Who needs MS Windows XP? There's linux. Whether or not you want these in a laptop, that's not the point. You argued that it's the bare minimum and you've just been proven wrong.

 

*sigh.* I would reply more but I haven't read one intelligent or well thought out response. Most of you who have issues with what am I saying have failed to read most of my posts and/or grasp the nuances of my argument.

 

I find it hilarious that you think you have proved something here. How old are you, 15?

 

Most of the responses given, aside from a few such as one of starmars, were very well thought out, especially RWIE's explanation above. Dont be blinded from seeing this. You should have realized to begin with what kind of responses would be given, being a possibly biased Asus forum, and never have began (or encouraged continuation) of such an argument over it. Dont bother responding, since such a coherent response such as mine would probabaly not live up to your intelligence level. And please refrain from responses such as "how old are you, 15?" Shows a bit of untactfulness really. Dont blame us for missing all of the nuisances of your argument, when you obviously have a similar situation.

 

I will go and look up canadian prices on the hardware you need for $20 an hour evil sheep.

I dont have it ready on hand because Im not a canadian. I dont shop the canadian computer parts sellers.

I thought it would be more appropriate for you to look those things up for yourself.

But for real, if you need me to look up the lowest prices of all the components necessary Ill do it.

I spent a lot of time trying to help you I made a correct estimate. Only for your benefit really I dont know of another canadian trying to make a laptop for $1100 thinking of buying the e1505.

If it were US I could show you the right channels.

But you will have to find those out yourself. Look for the cheapest components.

If you dont see what kind of s96j you can make for $1100, maybe using a core solo 40 gb etc I dont think you have the picture to compare.

if youre not going to look it all up yourself using ebay froogle, pricewatch pricegrabber, etc etc thats a shame but good luck.

im sorry if I seemed mean to you. You are actually asking for canadian web site advice and the majority of us are not canadian. Thats whats missing here, you keep asking for the websites and a lot of us dont know.

 

Glad I found this thread, I have something to contribute. Two nights ago I showed off my laptop to my friend, and he was thoroughly impressed but argued that a similarly configured "mainstream" notebook such as Dell would come with a cheaper price tag. Well, my system config is in my signature below: we looked around the web for over an hour for a Dell, HP, or Compaq with a similar config for less than $1500 (which is what I paid). After going through countless coupon options on the Dell configurator and HP/Compaq site, I can honestly tell you that here in the USA at least, no other OEM can match the pricing of my ASUS from GenTech. This isn't even factoring in the build quality of the ASUS brand, or the fact that it is very hard to find 15.4 inch notebooks with a graphics card as powerful as the X1600 in the USA. Well, I take that back---you might find an Alienware or Voodoo with some crazy SLI/Crossfire configuration jammed into the case that will melt through the table and onto your lap when you're watching a flash video. But you will have to pay ~$3000 for that privilege.

As for the whole Canadian $ versus US $ debate here...is there a problem with ordering from a US reseller and shipping it to Canada? I know some resellers won't do that, but you can find many who will do so online. The current rate of exchange is $1.12 CAN to $1.00 US, so $1100 US is $1232 CAN. Make sure we're all talking about the same currency here. Lastly, I think we should distinguish between fanaticism and enthusiasm: my experience on these forums in the two months I've been here is that most ASUS owners in these forums are very happy with the value and quality of their notebooks, as opposed to the Dell/Compaq owners who have had their notebooks explode on them or are right at this moment listening to CRS's from India explain to them that they must eject the RAM and hold the power button for twenty seconds. Consequently, all of the posts exhibit some favoritism towards the ASUS brand. In my opinion this is just enthusiasm. Now if some guy went around the Dell forums trying to talk down the members there because his ASUS is "way way better", then I would call that fanaticism.

 

Thank you for your replies, which I'm impressed have actually had some thought behind them, so I take back my rather cynical comments from before.

Gatordude: Actually there are major issues shipping from the US to Canada that unfortunately go far and above the exchange rate. First of all, most US retailers do not even ship to Canada, and if they do, there is a major shipping fee for doing so. Upon crossing the border, you are not only slapped with 13% sales tax (depending on jurisdiction) but also a hefty import duty upwards of $100. This despite a so-called "Free Trade Agreement" with the US. Free Trade my ass, this is just usury. The best way to obtain a US laptop is to just drive down there and pick it up yourself: fortunately, probably 95% of Canadians live within 3 hrs drive of the border.

You're also right that my usage of the word "fanaticism" was a bit sensationalist, and enthusiasm is certainly a better choice to describe these forum users. However, I think it should also be recognized that the general consensus of members in a forum as to the reputation of a brand are not exactly accurate. People who buy a value computer like Dell or Compaq generally just want a computer, and aren't too particular about the particulars. They don't really care about their computer until it malfunctions, and then they come here and rag. This is not to mention that Dell computers are not exactly "Inspiring" as their name would suggest, but are rather simply functional and value-oriented. Asus buyers, on the hand, are what we could describe as enthusiasts, and are very likely to come here and trumpet their latest acquisitions. This can be evidenced by the fact that there are probably about 2x as many people in the Dell forums as in the Asus forums, despite the fact that 100x more people own Dells than Asus.

Although it is impossible to generate a totally accurate picture of a brand's reliability and customer satisfaction, I believe that PC Magazine's annual reliability and customer satisfaction surveys are a good place to start. I don't think that they even get enough feedback to rate Asus, but consistent top finishers are Apple, Lenovo, and Fujitsu. Dell usually is in the middle of the pack (despite its rather poor public reputation) and Compaq/HP finishes usually dead last (which is why I would never buy one or advise someone to.) I might note that the spread between the top and the bottom is fairly moderate. You have to keep in mind that almost all the parts in a typical notebook are purchased from 3rd parties or outsourced to places like Taiwan (including to Asus.) Certainly the parts that are most likely to fail and which have the biggest impact on performance are not built by Asus, components such as the hard drive, CPU, graphics, etc. Consequently, variations in hardware reliability are actually often the product of other factors, like satisfaction with customer support, external factors that don't actually have to do with the quality of the notebook, etc. This is why I argue that you should take Asus's invincible reputation (going by the judgment of this forum) with a grain of salt. A lot of it is just really good marketing, along with a host of intangible factors like Asus' use of very high quality materials in exterior construction.To make another reference to cars, you might be surprised to find that in a recent comprehensive survey of automobile reliability, expensive luxury brands like BMW, Audi, and Mercedes did not even find themselves in the top 10 of manufacturers in vehicle reliability. Instead, it was the rather mainstream brands (mostly Japanese) such as Toyota, Honda, and Nissan that took all the top honours. You may be even more surprised to discover that Hyundai was actually in the #2 slot: an instructive lesson to the fact that just because you paid more does not mean that what you get is better.

A lot of you have been looking at certain Asus models and then declaring "Asus" as a whole to be of good value. This is a mistake. You have to consider the entire lineup, not just a few select models. I admit that a few Asus models are competitive in price in some very specific categories. Mostly the X1600 power category. The S96J/Z96J is a very good price compared to competing models with X1600's. But you have to keep in mind a couple of caveats. First of all, you have to build the **** thing yourself. A lot of people don't actually want to do that, and there is usually a fee (albeit fairly small) for someone else to put it together for you. The second thing is that the barebones are not covered by Asus warranty, but covered by your retailer. Some people are not willing to go for that either, because of the perception that small retailers are not as reliable as large brands (mostly due to successful marketing.) So it's hard to make an apples to apples comparison when speaking of the S96J/Z96J because, in many ways, it's in a category of its own. These two "problems," as they are problems for some people, lower the value of the barebones, a fact which is reflected in its relatively low price.

Outside of the barebones, the rest of the Asus line is actually not all that price-competitive compared to other manufacturers. In Canada (but I honestly believe that US prices are similar in ratio), the A8Jm/F3Jm, the cheapest X1600, are usually about $1700, but I've seen them for $1600. Let's say $1600. You can get a X1600-equipped Toshiba A100 for $1550, and a X1600 (or 7600?) Asus 5672WLMi for $1450. Now, that's not a big price spread, but the point is that, if you want to do a fair apples-to-apples comparison and leave out the barebones, the Asus is not actually sitting on the bottom of the heap, but somewhere in the middle in terms of price-performance in the power category.

But you know what? What if you don't play games, or don't play much, and don't want an X1600? What if you want a X1400, or integrated? In this case, the X1600 actually becomes a liability: it is dead weight (literally) and a giant battery killer. Asus doesn't exactly have a lot of options outside of the X1600's, and most of these are actually really poor value compared to the competition. For example, I talked about the A6Jc, which is more than $500 more than a better equipped Dell Inspiron 6400. The A8F/F3F goes $1100-$1200 min., which is OK, but against the Dells, Acers, Compaqs, and Toshibas of the world, going for about $900 right now, you're still paying a premium, and only getting integrated graphics.

Also, another forum thread around here is currently lamenting the fact that Asus offers virtually no discounts on its late-generation models. When a new piece of technology comes out, most manufacturers furiously slash prices to get rid of their old inventory. Asus: they sit on their butt. Probably because they can, as Asus is certainly a highly-respected brand among those in the know. But the fact that Asus is still charging the same price on Pentium M models that came out years ago is outrageous. These offer a terrible value to most people, and especially in light of the fact that Asus values itself as a "power" brand when it is selling highly outdated technology.

As you can hopefully see here, outside of a few select laptops, mostly barebones, which as I've illustrated carry their own baggage that reduces their value to many users, the overall Asus lineup, in a simple power (which is to say the power of its components) versus price comparison to other brands just is not very competitive. Outside of the power category, Asus' value gets worse and worse, and both its "value" products, and outdated models like the W3V and Z70Va, carry unreasonably high price markups.

Now there certainly exist good reasons for Asus' price premium: Asus is a luxury marque that actually earns its price in many cases, unlike other brands *cough* Sony. Asus has superb reliability and customer support compared to other brands. Some of its models are very well styled (others are extremely bland...like the A3/A6 series, all the barebones save the Z70, the A8/F3...) However, I do not believe that in most cases Asus manages to earn its massive price premium over other marques. It simply cannot. It's nice to have greater reliability and customer service, but is it worth 50%-100% the value of the laptop? This is the price premium you're paying for much of Asus' lineup. If you bought a Dell, you would think it pretty outrageous to pay $500 for a 3-yr warranty as opposed to a 1-yr. Why should it be different for the Asus?

I'll give you another example. I was recently in Switzerland, the home of Swiss watches. Now I know that Swiss watches are extremely well crafted, and they will certainly last a lifetime or more. That is an extremely alluring proposition. But I ultimately had to decline the opportunity to purchase one. The cheapest was about 100 euros (~ $120 US or $140 CDN.) Or I could go to a street market and find an actual exact replica for 5 euros. My undoubtedly cheap quality 5 euro watch could actually break down 20 times and have to be thrown away before the Swiss watch would earn its price. The replicas looked almost exactly the same as the genuine Swiss watches, and you would only be able to tell the difference if you were able to compare them side by side for a few moments. The whole point is, nobody would know how valuable my watch was except me. I actually told several people that my watch was Swiss and they believed me. I had to tell them otherwise.

I also had to come to the realization that it was far more likely for my watch, genuine or otherwise, to be stolen or lost before it actually broke down. The same thing goes for the Asus. The fact is, it is far more likely for your computer, Asus or Dell, to be replaced because it is severely outdated than because it was irreparably break down. Or to be stolen. The Asus and Dell in this respect are equal, because no matter how great your tech is or how much you pay for it, in 6 months its going to be outdated. The Asus, as of yet, is no more theftproof than the Dell. Yet you pay so much more for the Asus.

This is not simply a problem of Asus, but is part of the incredibly skewed nature of price-performance curves in computers, and in laptops in particular. While the bottom has fallen out of pricing for value desktops and laptops, the prices for power laptops has stayed the same or even increased. These days you can buy a desktop for $300 or less, and a laptop for $500. It gets harder and harder to justify dropping that $1500+ for an Asus when prices are so low elsewhere. If you have all the money in the world, go right ahead. But for most of us, we have to make decisions about where we spend our money. That $500 or $1000 saved could go towards a vacation, or buying a new car, or whatever floats your boat. In economics they refer to this concept as opportunity cost: the price of one thing in terms of another. I might be able to afford that brand shiny new Asus laptop, but if I skimped here might I be able to get something else I value even more?

Look, I've said it before, and I will say it again: I'm not saying don't buy an Asus, I just want you to be totally aware of all your options before you potentially waste your money. A lot of you don't seem to have fully understood my argument, so I'll try to summarize it here as best as possible: Analyze honestly your needs, analyze honestly your budget, then decide if you need an Asus. Don't decide you need an Asus and leave out those first two important steps. Don't be blinded by marketing and branding, as so many people are these days. You don't really need Nike, you don't need Coca-Cola, and you don't need Asus. If you can, why not, instead of giving your hard-earned cash to giant multi-national corporations who aren't exactly starving for it, give it to a 3rd-world charity? Or if that doesn't suit you, you can spend it on someone you care about, a girlfriend, wife, your parents. If all else fails, you can spend it on yourself. Do you really like travelling? $500 goes a long way on the cheap (especially if you live in Europe.) Do you really like sports? $500 gets you a great set of whatever. The point is, spend your money wisely, no matter how much you have. Make your money work for you, don’t work for your money. And all those tired but true clichés. Bill Gates could have gone out and bought a whole country if he had wanted to. Instead he's giving it all to charity and AIDS research. Which is why he is a great man, unlike legions of CEO's whose selfish lives will be simply forgotten after their 15 minutes.

 

Nice argument but for me it boils down to:

If I want a Geforce 7600 or X1600, Asus is the best value I can get for a 14" with 7600. HP has 14" but with lousy Geforce 7200.

But the HP has much better battery life.

So the price of the HP is one or two hundred cheaper when configured to match the A8JM, and the HP has better battery life.


If the A8JM can reach 3 hours of battery life, I'd buy it in an instant..

 

Also, I am kinda miffed why Asus is so slow to bring out the Core 2 models in NA, esp when everyone else has Core 2 available. Argh

 

That's a good argument Evil_Sheep, I agree many things you said in your last post. Particularly, it is true that if you are looking for low end systems with integrated graphics solutions, you would do well to look at a Dell. For me, this was not an option because my previous laptop had a S3 Savage integrated SVGA card. My thinking at the time was that I would get a value laptop that would serve as a workhorse with improved battery life. Well it backfired big time: without a decent video card, anything more graphically strenous than watching an MPEG/WMV file would lag horribly. I didn't miss the ability to play CounterStrike on my laptop---I switched to 2D games; I did miss the ability to compile and run OpenGL C++ code for a computer graphics class without the generated scene lagging the crap out of everything and forcing me to hit CTRL-ALT-DEL many many times. Also, as it turns out the cooling system wasn't very well designed on my laptop. This negated the power savings from the integrated graphics chip, and reduced my battery life to an hour or so most of the time I dared to venture about without a power cord. This was back in the day when cheap laptops cost $1500 and decent midrange laptops cost ~$2000. Needless to say, a very expensive lesson was learned, and I chose the Swiss watch this time around.

Honestly, I think that no matter what type of notebook you get, you need a decent video card. The most important---and possibly most expensive---part of any laptop is the LCD, so why cripple it by going with an integrated design that also saps your main memory? Unless the buyer is only looking for a highly mobile solution for word processing, web surfing, and emailing on the fly (which begs the question: why not a PDA?), it would really behoove him or her to spend a little extra on the video card. If this sounds agreeable, then the built on ASUS line of notebooks seems like the right choice for the smart buyer.

 

Just in case anyone gets any funny ideas from gatordude I decided to test out my Apocalypse Now Redux DVD in my 3 year old desktop (P4, Intel integrated graphics 64mb of memory, 512 mb of RAM) against the laptop in my signature.

Found no difference. Plays just as well on the laptop as the desktop.

I didn't bother testing wmv files between the two since I have played enough on both to know that I haven't noticed any difference.

The GPU does have an effect on gaming and 3D apps though.

Gatordude - are you a fan of the Florida Gators? They came from behind to beat Tennessee tonight.

 

Eh? I said anything more graphically strenous than watching media files...I could actually watch DVD's fine on my old laptop.

jason-Yeah...Go Gators! Even though they broke my heart four years in a row after a certain coach left

 

match construction to construction if yoru going to compare dell to asus. take the cheapest asus (S96j), against dells 15 inch business line as the construction is effectively equal (s96j is def way better then inspiron or xps and even without magnesium it reaches no flexing or creakyness, and a well protected screen, something youll find no sooner then the real latitudes (not the re names inspiron)
now take dells 15 inch latitude, put in 2 gigs of 667 name brand ram, put in an 80gb 7200 rpm hard drive, windows xp pro, 3 year warranty with overnight paid there and back, lifetime 24/7 tech support, and a t2500 processor, i know u cant match the graphics card so just upgrade to the max, with dells upgrade prices it will be enough of a hit for me to call it equal. hmmmm yeah i think ill take teh asus for that price