S96J Graininess Issue Thread

Another +rep for Eddie.

 

It's simple. The older drivers did not have full AVIVO support. I suspect that they use it for overlay filtering or something. It has many applications, which is one of the reasons why I went ATI rather than nVidia this time. The last I heard, nVidia wanted people to PAY for that sort of extra functionality despite it being in the chip...

I have my Z96JS here and the graininess doesn't seem that bad, though it's not the same panel as the S96. I suppose it looks worse when you sit right in front of the laptop rather than putting it a few feet away, or is it really that much worse?

 

Hmmm... thanks a lot for the insight, AlexF. Any suggestion on how to disable AVIVO? I'm going to go look into that myself now.

 

No idea, I've been looking for the last half hour. The supplied standard ATI Catalyst doesn't appear to have a setting to flat out turn it off, though I suspect there must be *something* like a registry hack or patch to turn it off. ATITool that comes with the Omega Catalyst seems to have lots of hacks, though not sure if it would work on stock laptop drivers...

 

You mean ATI Tray Tools? ATI Tool is for overclocking. =)

 

Eh? My bad, typing too fast... but yeah, ATI Tray Tool. ATITool is the nice tool which beeps when you have artifacts on your video card.

 

You mean artifacts on your screen due to graphical errors on your card. =)
Just kidding. But yeah, the beeping factor is nice. =) But that's only if it start's beeping once you've OC'ed your card by atleast 15%. If you look in my sig, you'll notice that my X800XL OC's abnormally well. A lot of people have reported that they couldn't really OC it at all. I got my 3D mark 05 Performance from 5115 to 6805 through overclocking. No typo there. 5115 to 6805. I also OC'ed my 3800X2 from 2ghz to 2.6ghz, which has a minor influence on that benchmark increase.

I'll see what I can do about disabling AVIVO. I do still feel there is a chance it won't fix the problem, because my computer shows signs even without drivers, and I doubt AVIVO is running without graphical drivers.

 

I have just finished to watch a movie on my S96J.

Definitly the screen has some Graininess issue !!

You have to be blind to not see that

.... where do I have to sign ....

 

Well there was a poll around here before. I think it got locked a while ago though.

Definately no arguing, it exists. What you can argue about is how bad it is, but I kindly ask that we do not. Best thing we can do right now is work toward a solution, and arguing over how bad the problem is won't help us to find a solution.

If you really want to get into this, start bugging Asus and ATI about the issue. Let me know it exists, and make them aware that it is something they should look into correcting, or atleast addressing.

 

I just got my s96j, the graininess issue is there, but i think most people here have exaggerated it. By no means is it like playing a game through a "sand storm" and such. I cannot tell the graininess on dvds/ anime unless im an inch next to the screen. While looking at pictures, they still look very good, as good as my desktop 17 in display. Of course, this will be a problem for people who have to work with video editing/photoshoping because everything has to be so perfect. Fortunatly, i dont have to work with those programs. This laptop is great, and its speakers are perfect for one person listening to it. Just wanted to let you guys know what i think about it. A bios updated to fix the graininess would make this lappy even more perfect

 

Still not sure what you consider "primary use" for a computer with these specs. This computer can do just about _anything_. It's a mean graphics machine. Anything that affects the visual quality affects the primary use, IMO.

Anyway, there is no argument as to whether or not this issue exists, just how much it bothers people. Since it exists at all a fix should be worked towards.

Krista

 

I think he means "web-browsing". Hehe.

I use mine mostly for coding, and school work. I do play games every once in a while, and I like to have the power to do so. I found the Z96J to be a good choice for me because I can use it for both comfortably.

Isn't that almost identical to what I said just a few hours ago on the previous page?

I think the best thing we can do now is try to pressure Asus and ATI to first address the issue, and then to work on a BIOS fix. Or a driver fix if they can manage that. But I really think that we will be relying on Asus and ATI for a "fix". Unless of course, someone feels like re-writing and testing some BIOS roms. Haha. Not me.

 

has somebody send a mail to asus,ati,intel concerning this problem.

 

haha that was the first question of this thread.

and wow. geared2play dude is still arguing that this isn't a problem. let's all believe him.

 

Dude. Please read through the thread before posting anything. Atleast through the last couple pages. Krista has been bugging ATI about this for the last couple days. Still can't get them to address anything.

He has acknowledge numerous times that the visual artifacting exists. BUT what he is still trying to say is that the "graininess" should be keep you from getting this computer. It is still a VERY nice computer, with a BEAUTIFUL screen. Any other notebook with the X1600 will have the same issue. This would include the half a dozen other Asus notebooks with the X1600, and all the other brands with the X1600. And you don't hear hundreds of complaints about it, or big long threads for them, do you? The whole thing has been blown out of proportion for the S96J.

 

to be honest, if i knew about this problem i wouldn't of bought the s96j.

 

No, what should "keep you from getting this computer" is the fact that no reseller is willing to take up the cause on our behalf. Allegedly strong reseller support was on reason I went with Asus and we can't even bother any of these guys to send off a quick emial or place a freaking phone call.

And, ya, I wouldn't have got this either had I known this issue existed and will, in fact, be replacing it with something else soon and updating my review at NBF to add a warning to potential owners if we don't at least get work from somebody that Asus is working on it.

 

Dude. Don't blame Asus. It's the mX1600. It's ATI's problem. And they won't help us right now because they are pre-occupied with AMD buying them out.

That varies from vendor to vendor. In most cases, it means that you will be treated kindly, and if anything breaks you can get it repaired and resolved with ease. Not like spending 3 months trying to get your dell fixed.

Enough of this, let's all bug ATI about a fix.

ATTENTION! FOR ALL THOSE WHO DO IMAGE EDITING, OR CANNOT STAND THIS ISSUE:

Connect to an external monitor whenever you get a chance. You can get a really nice CRT for well under $100. I got mine, with a max res of 1600x1200 at 85hz for $65. This is the monitor I use for my desktop in my sig. Output to an external monitor with this notebook is FLAWLESS. NO GRAININESS WHATSOEVER.

 

This is just my opinion, but . . . .

The problem with bugging ATI is: they are too big to listen to individual consumer emails. The "chain of command" should be followed. Your reseller should listen to you, Asus should listen to their resellers, and ATI should listen to Asus.

So . . . if you are not getting anything from your reseller, move up the chain. That means bug Asus. Although, it can't hurt to bug ATI as well.

 

I agree somewhat with your sentiment though I have no intention of returning it or replacing it. This issue has not impacted me at all.

I agree that resellers (including Eddie) should be doing their best to resolve this issue. There is obviously an issue and it needs to be resolved regardless of how many people feel it is a problem. The problem lies with the fact that percentage wise there are very few people that are aware of this problem or notice it when looking at all the notebooks with the X1600. I would expect that the people in these types of forums represent a very small percentage of the total people buying these notebooks. I would also expect that many people here would have noticed this problem if it was not for these graininess posts (like me).

As a reviewer of this notebook I too am concerned with the lack of effort to resolve this issue. I wonder how many of the 35,000+ people that have read my review (and then bought it) would have changed their mind if I would have mentioned the graininess issue...

 

Well if you can get a couple thousand people together, who all have a laptop with a mobility X1600, to all mass message ATI at the same exact time, we might be able to get a response out of ATI.

I do see the logic in your train of though on the issue. Anyone up for getting a rally together?

 

I'd encourage you to. I just updated my review at NBF.

 

I sent a message to ATI. Hopefully they now understand the big picture and why they should address this issue. =)

 

are you guys sure its an ati problem and not a bios problem? Im pretty sure i read about a thread where some guy ( owned either an acer or a toshiba ) downgraded, if thats the right term, his bios version to an older version and resolved his grainy issue

 

It was a Toshi. Want to explain why it exists on basically all systems with an X1600, and not on any other systems? It's probably a video BIOS issue, and we need ATI to release an updated bios. I don't see a fix coming anytime soon, but if we can just get enough people together to get ATI's attention...

Still waiting for response from ATI.

 

I got the same response back from ATI that Krista did. I of course sent another message straight back. Here is what they sent me:

 

ATI is not going to fix this even if 1,000 of us email them. They have an iron-clad out. It's got to go to Asus. They may snap their fingers and resolve it or, more likely, they'll go to ATI at a higher level.

Higher level. Hmm. Maybe there's a better way than following the proper channels. I think if we blow the whistle on ATI's highly touted X1600 through Toms, or Anandtech, or Slashdot or DiggNation or The Inquirer we'll see quicker resolution. I'll start gathering links to the problem as it extends across manufacturers and prepare a mini article to send off to everyone. Will take a few days, but when I'm done I'll post here so everybody can copy it and send it off too.

Geez, I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner.

 

Haha. Me too. The best thing is, I was threatening ATI about what is going to happen to them if they don't address it. Meaning just this sort of thing. Now since they refuse to respond to me, we'll go about spreading word of the issue. Great idea!

 

Right after the AMD/ATI merger, somebody is gonna jump on a chance to make some news.

 

Come on ill help, i thought my issue was fixed till i opened up full black ms paint, grrrrr

 

I'll make it three somebodies.

Why did you think your's was "fixed", and what did you do to "fix" it??

 

I talked to ASUS, they told me they don't support the S96J and that I needed to talk to intel but they didn't have a phone number for me.

Good idea on the article. Those big sites will draw some response.

Krista

 

Uhhh, they dont support it? Its their laptop... Why wouldnt they?

 

If Krista was able to actually talk to someone at Asus, one of you that has the Z96J should try. It is not VBI, so they should support it.

 

To fliptwister and hyperluminous: I read both of your reviews and was one of the reasons why i bought my s96j. I am wondering why you guys didn't include this 'issue' when you first wrote it? Did you not notice it until later? I would have been a little more unsure when purchasing this s96j if that grainyness issue was in the review, i may have even decided on a different notebook.

HOwever, i have the s96j and don't even notice this problem. Therefore, adding the grainyness 'issue' to your review may deter some people who would normally be happy wiht the s96j adn not even have a problem with this issue from not purchasing it.

Though I don't notice the issue at all, I would be willing to sign a petition or help everyone else in what ever you guys plan to do with ati etc.

 

Thank you Mr. Noodles. Appreciate the support.

Intel, I believe, basically "bought out" the S96J from Asus in the way most "name brand" companies do. Even though Asus designed it, I think Intel produces, and supports it. Technically it is an Intel notebook, although theoretically it is an Asus. Hence the name VBi. You guys should have gone with a Z96J like I did. =) And no, I am not calling Asus. Too busy. Plus, they won't listen to a 15 year old. No company ever will. Except for G2P.

Just call Asus and say there is a problem with the Z96J's. Then mention all the stuff you were going to mention about your S96J. All of it stands for the Z96J.

 

I wrote my review for this site in the end of May (published 6/5). This issue did not start popping up until about 2 months later. I did my review at NBF on 5/17 and Hyperluminous on 5/5.

I'm still undecided on whether I will edit my review. I still think this notebook rocks and I think 99% of the people who buy the S96j will not notice this. I have watched many DVDs, played many games, and viewed thousands of photos and never noticed this problem until I read this thread. I also know this is a driver issue, there is no problem with the S96j screen. As I stated earlier, I have Vista on the notebook as well and the graininess does not exist while on Vista.

This graininess is still not a significant issue for me. I can not see it unless there are certain solid colors and I'm within 12 inches from the screen. While this issue does not bother me in the least I admit it exists and I agree it needs to be resolved. I will help in any efforts in getting it resolved.

 

I didn't notice it at first. My review was focussed on what I was focussed on which was the assembly process and the ergonomics and getting it up and running and finding out answers for people like how the battery life is, etc. As far as the screen, my focus was on other things....namely how is the resolution and brightness and response time, etc. Also, the notebook is my "play" machine and I still use a desktop for daily routine tasks which end up being 75% of my computer time. And this is a very unusual problem. You may notice there's something slightly off about watching DVDs, but you hardly suspect it's anything other than ghosting or contrast or brightness at first.

I gave fair criticism of the loud touchpad buttons and keyboard flex, so I was being fair. I do feel bad about people buying it in part because of my review, but I doubt that either Flip, Symetrikal, or I played more than a partial role in people's decisions. Once the problem came to light, I was waiting for a fix and still am, because I firmly believe this is fixable. Over time it's become clear that resellers aren't giving a **** and a fix may be protracted in coming.

The best thing you can do is wait for my article to be sent and then we can all email the inidividual news sites enmass and hopefully get one to take notice. I owe it to the community to take a lead role in this and will be working on it the next couple days to word it precisely and present overwhelming evidence, but I'll need the time to gather all the data form various forums and write it up in such a way that it won't be passed over as a pissy nerd venting.

 

Oh, and I edited my review in a very balanced manner.

 

I know for a fact that it is not. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. If you want to know WHY I know that drivers are not an issue, read through this thread. Mainly the last few pages. UNTIL THEN I will not respond to you about it. I do indeed agree with you that the screen is flawless. I also know for a fact that the issue has been observed under Vista.

Don't blame the issue on the vendors. It's their job to sell, assemble, and give hardware support in the case of failures. It is not their job to fix issues such as this. And the resellers aren't the only ones who are "sitting back and doing nothing". ALL NOTEBOOK VENDORS are doing this. You would think that by now some "major brand" company would have addressed ATI about the issue, but they have not. If by your view the Asus resellers are to blame, then basically ALL notebook vendors are to blame.

 

Asus builds then and sells them to Intel.

I messed with the gama to fix my grainyness, I set it to +1 in ATI Tray Tools, and it went away in SOME apps.

 

Well, that does nothing. Actually it does something, but not much of anything. It would take me forever to explain what is going on, but I'll try and sum it up. Say a shade of a color we refer to from now on as "X" gives a grainy appears on the green. If you mess with the gamma or similar settings, the graphics card now outputs "X+1" or "X-1". Which does not react with the graininess. So things that used to be "X" no longer look grainy. But everything that is "Y", or what used to be "X+-1" is now displayed on the screen as "Y+-1" Thus resulting in an output of "X", making the color "Y" look grainy. Confusing, yes, I'm sorry. It's the best I can do without giving you a 5 page analytical essay.

 

Well at least it does something...

 

No, not really. If you are looking at a certain solid shade repeatedly, then yes, perhaps. But if you are playing games, or watching videos, there won't really be any difference whatsoever.

 

ARGHHHH!!!! I was THIS close to coming onto something...

I had this theory based on why output to an external monitor looks fine. So then I though, well what if I tried making the external monitor primary display, and the laptop lcd secondary. Maybe the CRT would be grainy and the lcd be fine.


TOO BAD.... It didn't work.

 

I wasn't arguing with you. I'm unsure why you think this was directed at you. It was not. Possibly because it was after your post? Sorry anyway...

I do not get this graininess while on Vista. It may not be the drivers but it is definately related to software, drivers, or OS. If it was related to hardware or bios I'm fairly certian that I would also see it in while in Vista. I have read through this whole thread numerous times by the way.

I never said this was the resellers fault. Clearly it is not. I said that they should be putting pressure on Asus and ATI to resolve this problem. The resellers are our first line of support and they have more leverage with the manufacturer. I don't want them to fix the problem, I want them help to apply pressure. Are you saying that resellers should not be helping us resolve this? If we buy a notebook from them and it does not run as intended (even if it is not hardware related) it is not their problem?

I respect the fact that Eddie has at least joined the conversation and admits that this issue exists with the X1600, there are not other resellers actively involved with this thread.

 

No offense, but I still don't believe it. It's not that I do not believe you, it's that I think it is there but you just haven't noticed it. Perhaps it was in one of the other "graininess" threads that got closed, but someone posted some pretty nasty pictures showing how bad the issue is in Vista.

Care to explain why I can see the issue in the BIOS, under a live cd, under Linux, and under windows? And why it doesn't appear on an external monitor? If it was some sort of driver or OS issue, it would appear on the external monitor as well. It appears to be some sort of hardware or BIOS defect/glitch that applies to the output to which the main lcd is connected.

Sure, it would be nice. But I don't blame them if they dont because I don't really think it is their job. And apparently NONE of any existing notebook vendor does, because they haven't addressed ATI or anyone else about it. I'm really surprised that places like Toms Hardware and AnandTech, etc. have not made a statement about it yet.

 

JPZ,

It is not there with Vista for me. Today I chose the same desktop color in both windows xp and vista. This color clearly shows the graininess. I went into display properties > desktop and choose "none". Then clicked on "color" and then "other". The color I chose was the darkest green (5th row, 4th color from left). I then went into dark room and got 2 inches from screen. I could see graininess clear as a bell in xp and not at all Vista. I will take pictures tomorrow to show you. I saw those vista pictures you are talking about in the graininess poll. I don't know what to tell you...I do not have them in Vista on my machine.

If it is the bios then why am I not seeing it in Vista? Why are other people not seeing after clean installs? Why are other people seeing at times and not others? Relating to external monitor: couldn't it only be a driver issue related to main monitor? The second output is VGA, how does that relate to main monitor? Where the external monitors 16:10 LCD displays?

I want to solve this problem. I don't care if it is bios, software, or drivers. I'm just not convinced yet that it has to be bios. It could be related to GPU high quality acceleration in overlay mode. It could be that the back end scaler for the LDVS is not working properly. It could be the bios. I just hope we find the answer. Peace!

 

Where do you sign up for a free copy of Vista again?

As well all now, this issue only applies to certain shades of color. Perhaps you just aren't looking at the right shades of colors within Vista. You already said it took you months before noticing the issue... I myself noticed it within minutes of turning the computer on. I saw it right after a clean install. My only explanation as to why some people claim it "comes and goes" and doing such and such makes it go away is that they really don't notice the problem nearly as easily as others. I happen to be one that notices it fairly easily... and even I find it easy not to notice it while playing games and the like.

 

To the people that think they can see this issue while playing a dvd. Have you played a dvd on another laptop lately? Can you explain what pixel scaling means? Now can you explain what a grainy screen means opposed to pixel scaling?