S96J Graininess Issue Thread

They are the same except for their lcd screen so there's a chance that the fix may be only for a particular type of screen and not the other.

 

NO! THERE IS NO CHANCE of that. Doesnt matter what lcd. On ati x1600 you can have any lcd. The fix will be for the vga card not the lcd. Read my posts before. I already ruled out any possible lcd problems. The problem is with the ati card NOT the lcd.

 

A Nerd? Of all the things ive been called...A nerd!(thats a first)

 

you have 600 plus posts on this forum alone. Get a grip you are the darth vader on the nerd scale.

 

...............retailer wins....now back to work....

 

Ok ok... anyways hope that they find a fix for this issue soon

 

No. Because you probably spent 10X more time posting in this thread about how we shouldn't care than you did emailing and calling Asus or Intel letting them know we do.

 

I did my share more then any of you did. Dont forget i gave every one of you a headstart. i actually spent the time the money and the labor to find out the cause and effect, over 20 hours of manual labor infact. The 10 minutes spent on the phone with intel and asus is not an acomplishment even thoough i did that numerous times. A lesson in irony is that you are ingratefull. If it wasnt for me all of you would still be concentrated on the screen thinking its a faulty lcd when infact prooven by me (the ahole that does nothing but take away from your noble cause) that it has nothing to do with the lcd. Youre welcome! Nobody not one person said thanks eddie. Nobody sent me a thank you email not even a thank you private message. Nobody here spent more then 10 minutes calling intel or asus. There is your lesson in irony. Its ironic you take away from the people that helped you, who gave you a cause and effect while praising others for doing the same thing i ve been telling you to do all this time......pick up the phone and call intel or asus. Its ironic how everyone knows their lcd is not broke thanks to my hard work but i am getting attacked over saying what most people feel. I ll say it again. I rather have this any day all over the screen then one tiny sub/dead pixel.

 

Actually I, personally, have pointed that out several times in this thread. For all I know you just wanted to be able to tell us all to STFU-that's-how-he-screen-is-so deal-with-it and it backfired, but it doesn't matter. You did, in fact, put it to rest. Still, unless you then are the one strenuously raising the issue, the rest of us can just refer to something someone on some message board did as evidence. I even PMd you to ask you nicely and you told me that resellers have no more pull with Asus than users do. Apparently Ken had no problem using his Intel contacts to get the issue raised. Ken, FWIW, also didn't seem to find this a big issue at first, but that didn't stop him.

 

Reminder: Keep it friendly and please stay away from personal attacks. I had to delete a few posts that were inappropriate here.

 

Thank you for proving it. However, I think others pointed out that other laptops with the X1600 had the graininess also. I know I mentioned the Acer, and the Mac was mentioned a few times, both here and elsewhere.

However, the point is that we need a fix. I'll heap praise on whoever gets that pushed through.

Krista

 

If a fix does in fact come out, can someone either start a new thread anouncing it or somehow get it posed on the news section. thanks

 

First of all It didn't take just 10 minutes, second, if it really just took 10 minutes for the case to get to engineering level in Taiwan Headquarter then I call it efficient and professional.

Yes, I've just decided if I hear any updates from Intel or Asus I'll post it here at NBF instead:
http://www.notebookforums.com/post2397291.html#post2397291

P.S.
All credit goes to Hyperluminous, thanks to him brought it to my attention, I must admit that I don't know everything as I didn't aware of the grainness issue until he describe to me, my apology to Hyperluminous.
If all of you appericiate what he have done to open the case with Intel then please give him REP+. Also he is the very first person who owns S96J in the US.

 

Thanks Ken, your the man

 

You are welcome but please thanks to Hyperluminous.

 

Hi.... just signed in to thank all of you guys for doing all these great job!
i juzt hope that this will be solved sometime soon.

 

Ken
It took me 10 minutes for them to tell me the same. Dont take it pesonally i wasnt attacking you. I was generalizing. I think opening a ticket with intel is poinless. Call asus directly and see what they say. They will give you the same shpeel as they gave to me. That is why i keep saying end users must complain not dealers. I know between you and I we can count on 1 finger maybee the returns for this particular issue. 1 in a couple hundred? Thats not enough to raise an eye brow. I had 5 times the return rate for the z71v screen in the first few months for its sandy screen and they did nothing about it. And people complained ALOT to asus and to dealers and we had many returns. And to this day it still has the same screen, Ultimately the screen is not the problem here but my analogy applies. If intel has a solution for this call me extremely surprised

 

If it wouldn't take who knows how long... with the potential of more damage taking place while it's out of my hands, I'd exchange mine, but, I don't think I'd get one without the problem, so what's the point? I built mine and bought the parts separately. I personally don't want to rip everything out and find another bare bones it's compatible with, when it's an issue that can and should be fixed.

I tried complaining to ASUS, they said they don't support the S96J. I tried complaining to ATI. They said they don't support notebooks.

Krista

 

I'd have returned mine if I thought I could. As I said, it's unusable for photo editing which I do frequently for work. Krista, as I understand it, is in the same boat.

 

Yep. I'm a webmaster. Colors have to be accurate. I also do a lot of photography.

Krista

 

I don't mean to be rude but why did you get this laptop in the first place?

 

I was one of the first who discovered, or at least posted, about the graniness issue. Nothing was out there about it when I was doing my research. Guess that's what I get for buying relatively early...

The X1600 is one of the best laptop video cards out there (or would be if it didn't have this issue)! What do you Think I should've gotten? This should be a mean graphics processing machine.

Krista

 

it is to me and alot of other people/ SOme people just cant deal with it. You are entitled. I ve had machines returned for less then that. Everything from light leekage to dead pixels to vieweing angles to hue and saturations and things that i cant even spell. I think the question is. Why didnt you return it when you had a chance? That goes to the countless people that bought from us or anyone else. Why didnt you return it when you had the chance? I just think its strange that we had more returns on other (every single asus product we sold over the years) models that dont have this issue then the s96j and z96j where i can count the returns on my 2 fingers neither one for this grainy issue. The z96j and s96j is the most popular by far. It also sports the lowest return for credit rate despite this controversial issue. WHY? Someone please tell me why this is?

 

Someone asked the question earlier, about the return, but I'll reiterate.

First, I built the machine. I'd only be able to return the bare bones. Which means ripping everything apart, then looking for another bare bones that would be compatible and putting it all back together. Also, I'd probably have to put more money into it in the process, and the only comparable machine I know of is the HAL80?

The HAL has, what should be, an inferior GPU compared to the X1600, for more money.

In other words, I want what I paid for, so, if it's a software or firmware issue, I want it fixed. Not returned. Other than this I LOVE my laptop.

Other people, even those who bought this prebuilt are probably having a similar conflict. Is there another laptop, with this good of specs out there, for this price? This was the best when I was shopping. Maybe there are more now.

Krista

 

Krista you are only one. I was not singling you out. These units w3j s96j and z96j has sold in tens of thousands to many people some of who may be more in tune with technology then your self. I was speaking in general terms. The overall return rate......Very low. This issue appears very big. i can count on my one hand the ammount of people i ve seen on forums that would return it for this reason. Tens of thousands of users many of whom come from the forums while you have your self and some others that are EXTREMELY unhappy witht he screen. i just think its a bit strange but i do hope you and others get what you consider a perfect screen. Perhaps if you and others keep up the work and call ati, asus and intel it will happen. if you think a few dealers can do it for you without the backing of the publuic you are wrong. Intel asus and ati will not read this forum and will not care what anyone here has to say becuase they dont have to reply here.

 

The grainy issue is not a concern to me. At all, its just a great laptop, the only major issue is really the grainyness otherwise its awesome. For the price and features you get.

Plus most people probably dont notice it.

 

Foremost because it doesn't "directly" affect anybody who isn't doing photoediting. Second, it goes unnoticed for the most part. Typing in the white backgrounds of word processors and webpages and playing fast motion games you hardly see it even though it's there during the game making things cloudy, because most people have no point of reference, they'll never know what they might be missing. Third, and largely, because this was caught after the bulk of us passed our return deadline. Even if I could return the barebones, I then need to Ebay the components for a loss or hold them and wait notebook-less until a comparable barebones comes around. I'm cool with that, actually, and will be selling the whole **** thing in the near future if this isn't fixed soon, but I'd prefer some techie at Asus spend a half a day to catch the bug and fix it and save me the hassle and leave me with what is otherwise an exceptionally nice notebook.

If somebody sold a video card with this problem it would have been a scandal by now. ATI routinely fixes stupid things like this one for BF2 in the 6.2 Cats.

"A blooming or ghosting effect is no longer noticed when playing the game in night vision mode."

OH HELL, there's a blooming effect in one mode of one game......quick let's rush a fix in the next driver release!!!!!!! What? Your notebook displays inconsistent colors? Deal with it.

 

Eddie, sure sounds like you are there.

As for the graininess issue, ahem I am not taking sides but I think Krista is right ahem.

Don't get me wrong, I love my S96J. I love the screen. I read the forum posts about the graininess issue and went on to buy the notebook without a second thought. But there is a software related issue---which we have pinpointed thanks to your time and effort---which makes the display grainy on certain colors on many S96J's. This is not subjective nor should it be expected: it is there and you can't miss it if you looked for it. However, the degree to which it bothers the user is subjective. Many users simply aren't bothered enough to even notice it. Some notice it but are happy enough with the notebook to live with it. Some notice it but absolutely can't stand it.

But, if the user has to use the screen for purposes which would be hindered or detered by the presence of this display issue, then the investment of more than a thousand $US entitles and necessitates the immediate contact of all parties involved in the manufacturing, distribution, and sale of the said notebook.

In other words, Krista obviously likes her notebook and really wants to pursue all avenues other than an RMA for her unit. If the notebook is business investment, it would be negligent of her not to rattle some cages and bring the issue up in public. I applaud her and Hyperluminous for their initiative on behalf of all S96J owners.

On the other hand, you have obviously spent a great deal of time on this issue---I made sure to read through all of your posts on this issue before hand---and I want to be among the few to thank you for your efforts. If you were just another consumer then I would say you went above and beyond the call of duty here. But you are also a retailer/customer representative, and if customers complain (however loudly or rudely) about a product issue you should be willing to pursue the matter without expectation of a hollywood movie ending or even thanks. Your technical expertise cannot be a substitute for patience and thick skin. Besides, business 101 says the customer is always right...at least when he's talking to you

Some of the other resellers, Ken from GenTech in particular, have also taken up the issue with Intel and ASUS. That is all the consumer should expect from a good reseller: someone to step up and go to bat for him/her. Even if the issue is trivial in some people's eyes, it makes sense--business, technical, personal, and otherwise---for all parties involved to get the manufacturers working on the problem.

 

He was not alone. If you guys think this can be solved by resellers you are wrong. I say again. you want a solution do something about it. Posting here does nothing to get a solution but it did give you a cause. I ve dealt with this before numerous times and from a reseller standpoint opening a ticket does zilch for the end result. The users hold all the power in their numbers. i can sit here all day long and call asus and intel but ultimately it leads nowhere. Remember we are only resellers we are a dime a dozen.

 

Guys thats my point exactly. I blow it off like nothing just like every other vendor only becuase our customers are NOT complaining. You the few forum members who are outraged and the majority of the passive posters here. Aside from that pretty much 99.99% of our customers did not bring this up by phone or forum. if they do i ll tell them the same thing i tell you. The power to fix this is in the numbers....

 

I say we test eddie's methodology. So how about anyone who has noticed this problem on their lapops try getting in touch with ASUS/Intel and let us know how it went. It couldnt hurt.

 

Ok, then, what do you propose we should do to get the issue addressed?

Mass email Intel/Asus?

 

I say we combine this thread with the W3J graininess thread and work together. And if anyone has a number please post it so we can all call the same people and annoy the crap out of them. Let's give em hell!

 

Ok, lets Give Em' Hell but we need a contact number!

 

eddie can you give us a hand and let us know the best number we can reach them at? Is this notebook support number the best way to reach them?
Notebook ONLY Hotline: 510-739-3777 ext. 5110
If we're all proactive instead of waiting for a fix maybe things will progress faster.

 

Yes, I suggest we also aswell submit tickets to ATI, describing the problem, I just did.

 

Guys i didnt say someone. I said everyone. That m,eans everyone who would liek to see a solution. Intel is probably the wrong place to call though i dont know. Pretend you have a z96j even if you have a s96j and call asus instead. Like i said you want something to happen it cannot fall on one persons head.

 

Ok, ill try contacting Asus, I mean, an S96J is basically an Z96J.

Will try that tomorrow.

 

Pointless. We'll just be bashing our heads against an impenatrable wall of CSRs and support techs.

There are two solutions. #1, Ken's trouble ticket gets filled. #2, We somehow get this to the media and negative press pressures ATI to implement a fix. I presently have a dozen links to threads about 6 different systems with this problem. We need more and then to submit this to everybody from Slashdot to TheInquirer. I'll post the ones I got, feel free to add more.

 

Well I sent ASUS a ticket.

We'll see, I dont understand Hyperluminous's idea about the media?

 

If any little news site pics this up, it'll spread and pressure will be instantly on ATI to fix it.

Here's my list. Note that Mac users call it dithering but the description is identical.

http://www.geared2play.com/phpbb/nfphpbb/viewtopic.php?p=5333&sid=9329c92236f6b210efa4a2b6d1ebe915
http://www.notebookforums.com/thread147968.html
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/labs/92081/evesham-voyager-c545.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=66204
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3086&review=Samsung+X60+Studentbook
http://www.abs.com/forum/Forums/TopicInfo.aspx?forumID=4&topicID=914
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=66693
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=1541488&highlight=graininess#post1541488
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=76895
http://forum.onmac.net/showthread.php?t=1194
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=2361266#2361266
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/99609816/m/330008478731
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2006/5/16/3997

 

Mass email is one strategy. "Mass Calling" is even better.. But I do agree with hyperluminous...the real people we need to target are probably ATI since its a problem with their GPU. Has anyone tried to get in touch with ATI? And if the media picks up on this, it'll definitely get things moving...remember the exploding apple/dell batteries?

EDIT: Oh yeah and if anyone finds any more threads, add them to the list above.

 

You all have a few problems.
1. Though the power is in the numbers i am willing to bet there are maybee a half dozen people here that are willing to spend 5 minutes or more to work it out by contacting ati asus or whoever. The rest dont really care and are able to deal with it. Try convincing 99.9% of the users that bought this laptop who dont post on forums and who dont know nor feel there is anything wrong that there is something wrong with the video card. The reason i bring this up is that asus and ati know how many units they sold. if 10 people in 10,000 complain it is not enough to raise an eye brow. If somehow you can merge a collaborative between the dell, asus, hp, alienware and whatever forums have a similar thread then you have power in numbers.
2. try convincing the ati people that Eddie has proved that it is infact not the lcd it self. Yes its a good idea to talk to ati directly but in all honesty I think its pointless and there will probably not be anyone there to lend a helping ear.

I will use last years ghosting issue on the z70va. Though that was a physical defect warrantable through warranty while this is not i think i can use it as an analogy. In a matter of one month we had close to 100 rmas filled and many more over the next few months. We replaced all the screens and kept the broken ones in inventory waiting for asus to ok the mass rma's. It took them almost 2 months to ok it. One vendor with that many rmas. Half of those rmas were barebones that people bought without parts. We dont warranty them without the cpu. That means that a huge load of our customers were calling asus for rma directly. Now thats just one dealer. Multiply that by ooooh i dunno 20. I can tell you for sure that every single asus rep there that was around 1 year ago knows what ghosting is. If you call asus now and ask them about the grainy effect the ati card produces they would verbally attack you with question marks. Long story short. No progress has been made other then isolating the cause to outside of the actual lcd which did not require me to swap lcds little did i know its evident by reading other manufacturers forums that the problem is not related to lcds at all.

 

Eddie, here's what you're missing and how you can help. I'll bet the vast majority of people buying S96Js now are aware of this problem before they purchase it. These are the people who think it won't affect them or believe a fix is possible. What about the other potential customers? The ones who think it might bother them or who doubt a fix is possible or don't like that such a problem has gone unaddressed for so long? They're just gonna not buy it.

Ya, sure, maybe 1% of those who've bought are actively complaining......now.....maybe more will later. Still, what about those who never buy it because of this issue? 300 lost sales a month could equate to a million dollars in profit margin over the course of a year. What's the cost of putting a programmer on this issue for a couple days? Easy math? I think so, but I don't have a sales rep to b!tch to....I get a CSR who just finished answering a call from somebody who wants to know why his email isn't pinging the hard drive any more.

 

I finally see what everyone is talking about. I went to cheapassgamer.com and the background looked all blurry. I dont think its that annoying.

 

Dithering - according to descriptions I would say it's. For seeing it exactly download Xnview (it's free viewer), load some image (using the computer without problem), then choose Image->Convert to color->256 (dither).
Is it similar? Although according to macbook posters it's 16bit dithering (65536 colors) in laptops, so here it will be exaggerated.

Putting on media it's the best idea to solve IMO, because it will enforce finding solution (and in the meantime stall the market for x1600 laptops). But try to be objective, not pointing to Asus directly, it's X1600 mobile problem, but of course put the links reporting the issues with every models (confirmed).
That way the bios update (?) should be available for everyone.

 

Sure its easy math but way out of my control. Doubt we lose 300 sales a month. Prolly not even over a year over this issue but ye all dealers loose sales. The driving force behind the sales thankfully is not the forums. Though if it was everyone would suffer. Like i said i can only provide physical repairs to what are deemed hardware malfunctions. This not being one of them. The only thing i can provide is my services to test and diagnose the cause. Did that long time ago. Whats done after is out of my control. Hope you understand that.

 

AnandTech got a Z96j in his Core 2 Duo review

maybe we can get him to help us to do a quick review of the grainiess issue, that will get a lot of attention for sure.

 

Heres a thread, with what Ken from Gentech came up with today:

http://www.notebookforums.com/thread173555.html

 

Excellent!!!!! I've got almost 9,000 posts in their forums, so I'll see who I can wrangle up to request them to add that addendum.