Thermal paste won't stay put?

G751JY here and about two years into owning it my GPU temperatures went from 87c max up to the 92c thermal limit and it started throttling in games hard. I took it apart and re-pasted everything which got me back to 87c again for about two months until it started to hit 92c again. I took the laptop apart again and this time applied a seriously liberal amount of paste and wouldn't you know it my temps went down to 76c! Since then every day the temperature goes another degree higher and today I am slipping back to 87c and I know what is coming next. So, what do I do? How can I keep the thermal paste on the chip and not seeping out off the sides of the chip?

I am using Noctua NH-1 btw.

EDIT: Nov 24 2016 - Update for posterity

Well it is time for an update I guess. So far the K5 pro has been absolutely perfect for my RAM and VRM. I was much easier to manage than anything else I have used before and seems to be just perfect for the job. If anyone is thinking of replacing thermal pads I would HIGHLY recommend going the K5 Pro route as it is really easy to manipulate into the exact positions that you need and it definitely stays in place while doing a great job of conducting heat. As for the ICDiamond on my GPU it has been much better than the Noctua paste as it is clearly more viscous. My temps started out at 76C max and have degraded slightly over the past month as it has no doubt spread out a little and maybe even pumped a bit but compared to the Noctua starting at 76C and rapidly degrading to the 92c thermal throttle limit in a matter of 2-3 weeks the ICdiamond has kept me under 80C for a month now and seems to be holding quite nicely.

If the ICDiamond pumps a bit more out over the next few weeks I was thinking of building a barrier around it with K5 PRO on the ouside of the die where the dpression is so that it literally builds a wall around the chip so it would not be able to pump out at all. Half of me wants it to fail just so I can try that theory out but as it stands now I feel like I have a new laptop where my overclock is strong and my temperatures are lower than they were with no OC and factory paste. Thanks everyone for the input, especially hmscott, and thanks to computer systems for the fantastic product and the unexpectedly fast shipping from Greece to Canada! I will definitely be using ICDiamond on all laptops that I service and K5 Pro for all thermal pad replacements as it is just so easy to work with.

One final thing. If I run prime95 alone my CPU never goes over 70c but when gaming it easily reaches high 80s and if the game demands over 50% cpu usage I even see low 90s although it has yet to thermal throttle. It seems this laptop has really good cooling for the GPU, with the appropriate paste job, while it gets tapped out when trying to keep both the GPU and CPU cool at the same time. I really have no idea what to do about this as I am fairly confident I did the best thermal paste job on it as possible considering the prime95 temperatures when the GPU is not experiencing load.

Ok, that is it for now! I will update if I decide to do the K5 Pro wall idea. ^^

EDIT3: March 18 2017 - Last update for posterity

Holding up superbly! The ICDiamond has held since it was applied! I have not had to re-open my laptop since and it has not overheated while the temps have been steady and stable. This is definitely the way to go!

 

I've used NH-1 on desktops, including this one still running without re-paste after 10 years.

That's because I applied a careful thin layer that didn't extend past the edge of the CPU / heatsink, so air can't get in to oxidize and dry out the paste.

That longevity is easy with a desktop, it doesn't get moved around every day.

With a laptop the flex of the chassis can also flex the join between the heatplate and the CPU, allowing air in that oxidizes the paste.

You can try to limit the paste job to the center of the CPU - matching that spot applied to the CPU on the heatplate - leave an edge of about 1/8th-1/16th inch all the way around the CPU edge clear of paste.

If you are careful, and the heatplate makes tight contact against the CPU, you can do this with an even thinner paste like Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra, which can provide an even better seal against oxidation.

Or, if the heatplate doesn't make good contact, you need a paste that will fill in the gap better, one that won't dry out as quickly - like IC Diamond.

ICD can last 12-18 months or longer. Also keep the edge of the CPU clean when applying. Make sure no paste is showing that can dry out and wick in to the rest of the paste.

You are experiencing the effect that I try to help people avoid with Asus laptops.

The Asus paste is a thick gooey paste that seals against oxidation for the lifetime of the laptop - for most people. It's best to live with it, and not re-paste.

The Asus paste may not allow as low of temps as the enthusiast paste, but it will keep you from needing to constantly re-paste through the life of the laptop.

The Asus cooling system, as with most laptops, will flex with the laptop chassis, and that thick Asus paste holds on resiliently, and keeps temperatures running consistently throughout the lifetime of the laptop.

Now that you have removed it, you need to find a paste that will last as long as possible, to reduce the times you need to re-paste.

Here are some threads at ROG Forum, one of the owners Darnassus has been re-pasting her laptop for years now, and continues posting updates when she re-pastes again, and again, and again. Very informative.

REPASTED G750JX, SHOCKING RESULT.

GPU 'PASTE' ON THE VRMS. WHAT IS IT?

FOURTH REPASTE! GOSH BLUE LADY..

G750JX REPASTE THIRD TIME. ;D

There are lots of others with re-pasting posts, but hers are the most consistent with other reports, and span a couple of years of re-pastings.

 

Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra/Pro -it's not the easiest to apply but once on there, it stays put. I haven't needed to reapply it on the 10 or so systems that I've applied it to.

 

How long has it been on the longest duration application? Any temp changes on any over time?

 

Has been solid - I was expecting my wife's Lenovo to do badly, given that it was dropped and banged around so much but it was totally fine. That stopped me worrying about the CLU moving from the heatsink and onto any other components. The whole notebook was a heap and broken but the CLU hadn't moved at all.

Dell Latitude - over 3 years
2011 Macbook Air - 3 years
O2 Joggler - 3 years

As for the others, I can't remember exactly when I pasted them but they're all around the 2-3 year mark.

I noticed significant temp creep-up on a Lenovo Thinkpad but I put that down to bad application and after cleaning it and reapplying the CLU, it's been fine. As for the others, they're still within a degree or two of how they were at first application.

 

Thanks for the detailed reply hmscott! I also recognize you from the ROG forums. I will check out those links you provided. On overclock.net the general discussion so far is of the viscosity of the NH-1 that I am using leads to pumping out the TIM over the sides and then it loses its good contact with the mount. I think I am working with a pretty low mounting pressure here. I think I am going to grab some Shin Etsu G751 as it has very high viscosity and I hope it will not pump out of the sides. What do you think about this?

 

The gap and low pressure is what allows air to get in and degrade the paste.

What is needed is what Asus uses, some gummy stuff that solidifies and doesn't let in air / moisture, so the paste is very stable for a long time even with flex and long term use.

If you have laptops that have a higher pressure mount, or really good fittings, keeping the paste away from the edge keeps the air from getting at the paste too.

Thick paste will make up for uneven surfaces better than thin paste, but if the edges are showing to the air, it will also eventually degrade. You can keep it from the edge, and wipe any that oozes out, and hopefully that is enough.

I'm not familiar with the fine details on which Shin-Etsu paste is best for what application, but this one sounds interesting, it might harden and keep out air:

"Intel recommends Shin-Etsu X23-7762 so I purchased a tube and have never looked back since. Shin-Etsu X23-7762 is more like Thermal Pad in a tube, and the composition is very different from all the others."
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/360490-28-best-thermal-paste-lowest-temps

Thermal Grease X23-7762
https://www.microsi.com/product/x23-7762/

That page has links to several other Shin Etsu formulations...here is a good starting point:
https://www.microsi.com/product-category/packaging/thermal-grease/

There are so many choices out there, with new TIM's coming out, you can't really judge the longevity by temperature drops - you need years of use and owners reports back as to the need for re-pasting.

Going with an older TIM may lose a couple of initial degree's in temp, but be a better choice over the long term use.

Unless you are up for re-pasting on an aggressive schedule like Darnassus I would try to find a paste that lasts long.

If you go with a conductive TIM like CLU, a metallic paste, you have to be very careful to *not* flick globs of it onto nearby parts, and mask off the area with a "bib" with a cut out for the CPU/GPU for application - let the globs hit the bib instead of the MB.

Please keep us up to date on how it works out for you, initially and long term

 

I think I am going to grab some MX-4 and try that out as it is really cheap and I can get it on amazon prime. It seems like I need to look for high viscosity paste so it doesn't pump out the sides and I lose contact. I might also order some Shin Etsu as well. I probably should just go straight for the Shin Etsu... I don't know. I will report back though.

What do you think about MX-4 for viscosity so it doesn't bleed out? On the back of the package it specifically says no bleed.

 

Actually the MX-4 alone didn't work out so well for Darnassus - she later moved on to other pastes, you might want to skim through her posts - yes, there are a lot of them

Her earliest post gave the best clue, she said there was heavy gooped paste on a lot of the parts, which I pointed out was likely to bridge any gaps between the cans and the heat plate.

These gaps with the MX-4 paste drying out and pulling away from the parts / heatplate was the main failure for the MX-4.

I recommended she try thermal pads, shims, or a thicker paste like Asus used, and suggested K5 Pro for the parts other than the GPU / CPU - and that seems to have helped prolong the times between re-pasting.

Here's some links for K5 Pro:

https://www.amazon.com/viscous-thermal-paste-replacement-Aspire/dp/B00K04D3UK

https://www.amazon.com/viscous-thermal-paste-replacement-Aspire/dp/B00UTX7K2E

!!! K5 PRO !!! Thermal paste for use intsead of thermal pads. NEW PRODUCT


Acer Aspire 5738ZG Thermal Pad Replacement (K5-PRO + Copper Shim) (Better Performance)


A typical reaction to amount of K5 Pro used, and the answer:

"Keith Newman 1 month ago
I'm just putting this out there. I think you may have put way too much compound on... LMAO"

" ComputerSystemsGR 1 month ago
Thank you for your message and interest in our videos. Your comment is exactly the reason why we are making these videos. Most users like you can't understand that K5 PRO is a thermal paste designed for different usage than normal pastes. K5 PRO is designed for thermal pad replacement only. This is why a biger amount of paste is needed. K5 PRO is used to fill the gap between the heat sink and component and the important factor here is to make sure that the gap is filled."

Something to think about. There are lots of posts on the ROG forums besides the ones I posted, read those and search for others on shims and re-pasting.

 

thanks for the detailed reply again hmscott. My problem is not with the components but the GPU itself. I have used NH-1 on the components and they are cooled just fine as I have had no problem in that respect. The only issue is the thermal paste pumping out of contact with the GPU die and the heatsink. The NH-1 I used on the components (replacing the thermal pads) seems to be staying put just fine and if I had an issue with them I would just use replacement thermal pads and not MX-4. I am jus looking for something with high viscosity so it doesn't pump out that is all.

EDIT: Ok screw it. Just in case I ordered some K5 pro but it won't be here until nov 1 - dec 1 because I guess it is coming from china.

 

You could have a warped coldplate (or heatplate), they do come poorly fitted sometimes.

How long have you had it?

You might be able to return it for another one.

Or, RMA to get new fitted cooling hardware.

Try IC Diamond for the TIM on the GPU/CPU before returning / RMA'ing, that should be thick enough to make good contact, put on plenty - not too much, and see if that helps.

 

@Exostenza Why make it so complicated. Either Liquid ultra or ICD. Use ICD if the gap is too big between heatsink vs die. Both work very well for your purposes

 

I have had it for over two years and I tried to buy the extended warranty but they wouldn't let me from South Korea for some reason. It was a huge hassle and I just gave up on it. I am back in Canada now but that doesn't help. So, I think RMA is completely out of the question. I will pick up some IC Diamond I guess. Thanks.

Also, I ordered 20g of that K5 Pro stuff. Should be here in a month or two...

Thanks for all the help man.

 

Alright! Everything came in and I had time tonight to do it up proper. I have the ICDiamond on the CPU and GPU and K5 Pro on all the other components. Thanks a bunch for the help hmscott! GPU is maxing at 76C now which it did with the fresh Noctua paste but I now understand how much more viscous ICD is so I am hoping it will stay. Here is also a picture of the job before I put it all back together. I will update again in few weeks or a month to let you guys know if it stayed put!

 

That looks great!!

I hope that keeps things cool for a good long time

 

Hello Exostenza,

Thank you for your purchase and your interest in our product.
We just wanted to specify that all our products are shipped directly from our laboratory in Greece, unless they are bought from Amazon FBA (which we also provide and restock regularly).
If you have any more questions about K5-PRO you can also contact us at: [email protected], or by using the contact form directly from our oficial website: http://www.computer-systems.gr/ .

Regards,
Michael Kontoudis
Computer-Systems Sales Department

 

What's the real thermal conductivity of the K5 Pro? @judal57 pointed out that it might be less than 1w/mK.

 

@Mobius 1
4W/m°C this is equal to 4W/273kelvin*meter = 0,014 W/m*k .... that's right mobius ... less than 1W/mk .... the worst thermal pad i have ever seen had 3,2W/mk ... this thing is insane bad

 

@Mobius 1 if IC diamond have been using the conversion scam as they do ... the conductivity of IC diamond will be = 1228,5W/m°C

 

Thanks for pointing that out @judal57

-

 

This is TOTALY wrong. judal57 I think you should go to high school again or just do a 10second search before you start talking about things that you don't know. The correct is

T(K)=T(C)+273

This means that if you know the temperature in Celsius and you want to calculate it in Kelvin you just need to add 273. This means that in absolute value 1K = 1C. So the thermal conductivity in K should be exactly the same as in C.

 

@VAIO_for_Ever you don't need to talk ******** hahaha 1°C = 273k .... just replace in the equation ... that crap looks like real toothpaste
the absolute temperture is 0K = -273,15°C

 

Go to high school... so you claim that 1C =273K, 2C =546K, 10C=2730K, 100C=27300K? So you claim that water boils at 27300K? Even a 10years old child will laugh...

I didn't talk about absolute temperature but Absolute value . You will learn what absolute value is at maths when you get 15 years old. Do not worry. The first result on google is not always what you are looking for....

 

Thank you for pointing out this missunderstanding. Thermal conductivity of K5 PRO is 4W/m°C which is equal to 4W/m°K . We appologise for the confusion. We expected it to be clear for everyone but obviously it is not. We have already increased the thermal conductivity of our products so as soon as we confirm the final values we will update our product pages with the values in W/m°K .

 

K5 PRO is a 5 star product on ebay and Amazon. It is exported to thousands of users to more than 80 countries the last 3 years so it is definitelly not a scam. We understand that your claim is based on a missunderstanding that was caused firtsly by us for publishing it's thermal conductivity in W/m°C considering that everyone would understand that it is the same value in 4W/m°K and secondary by the wrongly calculated conversion by another user which lead to a value that is even lower than air.... We hope that now that you know the truth you will withdraw your unfair claim.

 

I'll delete the post when amazon/your website have been updated with w/mK value.

http://www.computer-systems.gr/content/k5-pro



Thanks!



Also you should contact either @downloads or @Charles P. Jefferies to make you a company rep.

 

We would like to infrorm you that the new tests about the thermal conductivity of K5-PRO have just finished and the listings on our site and on Amazon and ebay have also been updated with w/mK value.
We hope that this concludes the missunderstanding.

Regards,
Michael Kontoudis
Computer-Systems Sales Department

 

At what thickness was K5 Pro tested to be K>5,3w/mK?


@judal57

 

We did a series of testing starting from 0.5 mm to 3.5mm. You can see more details about our testing methods and research work on our products in our Telfor 2014 conference paper here
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...10cf2c1e3d2dc299e.pdf?origin=publication_list

 

Well it is time for an update I guess. So far the K5 pro has been absolutely perfect for my RAM and VRM. I was much easier to manage than anything else I have used before and seems to be just perfect for the job. If anyone is thinking of replacing thermal pads I would HIGHLY recommend going the K5 Pro route as it is really easy to manipulate into the exact positions that you need and it definitely stays in place while doing a great job of conducting heat. As for the ICDiamond on my GPU it has been much better than the Noctua paste as it is clearly more viscous. My temps started out at 76C max and have degraded slightly over the past month as it has no doubt spread out a little and maybe even pumped a bit but compared to the Noctua starting at 76C and rapidly degrading to the 92c thermal throttle limit in a matter of 2-3 weeks the ICdiamond has kept me under 80C for a month now and seems to be holding quite nicely.

If the ICDiamond pumps a bit more out over the next few weeks I was thinking of building a barrier around it with K5 PRO on the ouside of the die where the dpression is so that it literally builds a wall around the chip so it would not be able to pump out at all. Half of me wants it to fail just so I can try that theory out but as it stands now I feel like I have a new laptop where my overclock is strong and my temperatures are lower than they were with no OC and factory paste. Thanks everyone for the input, especially hmscott, and thanks to computer systems for the fantastic product and the unexpectedly fast shipping from Greece to Canada! I will definitely be using ICDiamond on all laptops that I service and K5 Pro for all thermal pad replacements as it is just so easy to work with.

One final thing. If I run prime95 alone my CPU never goes over 70c but when gaming it easily reaches high 80s and if the game demands over 50% cpu usage I even see low 90s although it has yet to thermal throttle. It seems this laptop has really good cooling for the GPU, with the appropriate paste job, while it gets tapped out when trying to keep both the GPU and CPU cool at the same time. I really have no idea what to do about this as I am fairly confident I did the best thermal paste job on it as possible considering the prime95 temperatures when the GPU is not experiencing load.

Ok, that is it for now! I will update if I decide to do the K5 Pro wall idea. ^^

 

Holding up superbly! The ICDiamond has held since it was applied! I have not had to re-open my laptop since and it has not overheated while the temps have been steady and stable. This is definitely the way to go!