V1S-A1 Review / Pics & Benchmarks

The V1S-A1 was released mid August 2007, it’s a business class notebook with gaming capabilities. It’s a very sleek, sophisticated notebook, remaining portable while being very powerful. The V1S can provide multimedia and gaming performance while unlike the G1S not being what I consider as so ‘Flashy’.






Specifications as reviewed:

General
Model V1S-A1
Processor:
Processor installed Intel Core 2 Duo Processor T7500 (2.2GHz)
FSB 800 MHz
Cache 4MB L2 Cache
Chipset Mobile Intel PM965 chipset (Crestline) 800MHz FSB + ICH8M-Enhanced
Memory:
Memory installed 2GB DDR2 667 (1024MB x 2)+ 1GB Intel Turbo Memory
Max. supported memory Two sockets for expansion up to 4GB
Display:
LCD Display 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680x1050) Color Shine
Graphic Engine NVIDIA 8600GT 512MB w/ DirectX 10 Support
Video Camera 1.3 Mega Pixel Swivel web-cam
Storage:
Hard Drive 160GB 5400RPM SATA
*Support Module HOT Swap Function and 2nd HDD or battery.
Optical Drive 8x Super-Multi DVDRW Dual Layer w/ Light Scribe
Card Reader 8-in-1 card reader (MMC/SD/Mini-SD/XD/Memory Stick/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo)
Networking:
WLAN 802.11 A/G/N
Intel AMT 2.5 Ready
LAN 10/100/1000 Base T (Intel 82566MM Gigabit Network Connection)
Bluetooth Bluetooth V2.0 + EDR
Modem Integrated V.92 MDC Fax/Modem, with AC-Link Version. 2.1 Compliant.
Other Features
Security Reliable security protecton with fingerprint authentication.
BIOS Booting / HDD User Password
Protection and security lock
Kensington lock

LED Status Indicator Power-on/Suspend
Battery Charging/full/low
Storage device access
Capital / Scroll / Number Lock
E-mail in box
Wireless indicator
Touchpad Lock
Bluetooth
Hot Keys Instant launch Keys:
5 buttons: Bluetooth, WLAN on/off, T/P-Lock on/off, Power4 Gear+ Hotkey , Instant Fun PLUS, Splendid

Function Keys:
Fn+F1 Suspend switch
Fn+F2 Wireless switch
Fn+F4 Internet
Fn+F5 Brightness down
Fn+F6 Brightness up
Fn+F7 LCD on/off
Fn+F8 LCD/CRT switch display
Fn+F10 Volume on/mute
Fn+F11 Volume down
Fn+F12 Volume up
Fn +C Splendid Technology
Keyboard Spill-proof Keyboard with 87/88 keys
Sound:
Built-in Built-in Azalia compliant audio chip, with 3D effect & full duplex
Speakers Built-in speaker and microphone
Power:
Battery Pack 8-cell, 5200mAh, 77Whr
*Support Module HOT Swap Function and 2nd HDD or battery.
AC Adapter Output: 19 V DC, 4.7 A, 90W
Input: 100— 240V AC, 50/60Hz universal
Accessories:
Included Accessories Carrying bag and optical mouse
Other Accessories Docking station (optional)
Operating System:
OS installed Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition
Virus & Tool Software Symantec Norton Internet Security 2007
Adobe Acrobat Reader 8.0
NERO Express V7.0
ASUS Utility ASUS Live Update
ASUS Power4 Gear eXtreme
ASUS LifFrame2
ASUS Wireless Console
Virtual Camera
Net 4 Switch
ASUS Multi-frame
Asus NB Probe +
Instant Fun PLUS
Dimensions:
Dimensions 14.3" x 10.4" x 1~1.4"
Weight 5.9 lbs.


Reason for Purchase:

Previously I owned a Dell 8100, almost 5 years old, so on a whim I thought to myself, “Time to buy a new laptop.” Well I decided to go back to Dell since that was my first laptop, I purchased an Inspiron 1520 with almost the same specs as the V1S. Well after receiving it and being disappointed with many things I sent it back. This is when I found www.notebookreview.com. After plenty of research I found myself in the Asus Forum deciding what to get. It was between the G1S and the V1S which was coming out. Well as you can see I choose the V1S mainly for the looks and build quality.

Where Purchased:

I had a few options when coming to the purchase of the V1S, I sent a few different re-sellers emails and PM’s on the forums and only www.excaliberpc.com responded. Luckily for me they also had the lapto in stock which was a big plus! I’d like to say that they were very helpful, quick to answer all my questions and even called me when my order was ready to be shipped to confirm everything was ok. I purchased on a Saturday, it was mailed out that Monday and I received that following Friday. Great Experience and I will be using them again.

Design and Build Quality:

The V1S is very well built, very sturdy and very professional looking. This is the first laptop I’ve had without some mechanism to hold the laptop together when closed, so that took some getting used to. The hinges on the laptop are tight enough to hold the screen down without having to worry about it coming open when you’re not ready.
The Lid provides plenty of some protection, but could be better. I didn’t have to press down very hard on the LCD to get ripples. The lid did not wobble at all, but did have some flex.
The laptop is very thin, and light, very portable for anyone that’s on the go.

The Screen:

As you probably read earlier my screen is 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680x1050) Glossy. This is where some slight disappointment comes in. The screen is grainy, mainly it’s noticeably on a white background. It’s one of the same problems I had with the Inspiron I sent back to Dell. It’s unfortunate, but it’s something that I can live with. After a while it’s not very noticeable.

Speakers:

I’m not sure if the issue I’m having with the speakers is isolated to myself, but the sound from the laptop has a major echo. It sounds like as if I turned on ‘Hall effect’. Other than that it’s probably what can be expected of a laptop, nothing special, good nor bad.

Processor and Performance:

The notebook comes standard with T7500 2.2 Ghz and 2 gigs of Ram, 2x1 gig sticks. The notebook does not hang and I have had no problems. I decided not to upgrade the hard drive and stuck with the 5600rpm, the Dell I sent back had the 7200. I can honestly say that I can’t tell a difference in speed, not when accessing programs, booting up, and installations. There was no noticeable difference. The Notebook is very speedy. I did do a fresh install and removed all the unneeded background tasks and it’s under 60 seconds from the time I hit power till the time it’s ready to use.
I haven’t had a chance to play any game on it except Guildwars and of course that ran at full resolution without a hitch.

Benchmarks:


PCMark05


HD Tune


3Dmark06


3Dmark05


Heat and Noise:

The noise level on this laptop is wonderful, there is none! Well not none, but when the fan comes on it is barely audible. It does distribute some heat on the right side of the laptop where the fan is. I use it on my lap constantly without any problem, there is practically no heat on the bottom.



Keyboard and Touchpad:

Well I wish there was some dedicated buttons for volume and such rather than the function keys. The keyboard has no flex and is very durable as well as spill proof. The touchpad is very responsive, unfortunately the right click is awful. You have to hit it in just the right spot for it to click, and if you want to highlight text or drag and drop it can be quite annoying. I know it’s not isolated because I’ve read a few other people have the same problem in the forums.


You'll have to excuse the fingerprints please
Input and Output Ports:

1 x Express Card
1 x VGA port
1 x Headphone-out jack (SPDIF)
1 x Microphone-in jack
1 x RJ11 Modem jack for phone line
1 x RJ45 LAN Jack for LAN insert
3 x USB 2.0 ports, 1x IEEE 1394 port
1 x TV-Out
1 x E-SATA & USB combo port
1 x HDMI
1 x Docking Connector (hot swappable)





Wireless:

802.11 A/G/N
Intel AMT 2.5 Ready
10/100/1000 Base T (Intel 82566MM Gigabit Network Connection)
Bluetooth V2.0 + EDR
Integrated V.92 MDC Fax/Modem, with AC-Link Version. 2.1 Compliant.

The wireless is very nice; I’m not close to my wireless network at all and always have full connection strength. Downloads and surfing also is very quick.
I hooked up the HDMI just for this review and it’s very easy and nice on the big screen. I didn’t mess with it very much, but I wasn’t able to get sound on the TV for the few minutes I did.

Battery:

The Battery is lasting about 2 ½ hours with screen brightness at about half, wireless on, and just normal stuff like surfing. However I have read some complaints about the wear on the battery being extremely bad. I have not tested this myself, and am hoping possibly it’s isolated.



Software:

The V1S does come with Vista Business as well as a recovery disk. Also comes with 3 other disks, one is ASUS DVD, PowerDirector, and MediaShow, 2nd is an OEM of Nero with CD/DVD burner, and 3rd Driver & Utility Disk.



Customer Support:

Well I haven’t had to use Customer support yet, but I doubt it can be as bad as my Dell experiences, at least here’s keeping my fingers crossed.


Conclusion:

I really do love the laptop, the look and build is beautiful. It’s thin, light, and very nice to look at. If you’re looking for a business laptop with high video performance this is the laptop for you. I’d highly recommend this laptop for people on the go, people in school, people for business, and especially if you’re looking to do some gaming on the side!

Pros:

Solid Build
Good Price
Great Performance
Professional look with gaming hardware
Very nice 1.3 Mega Pixel Camera

Cons:

Grainy Screen
Right Click button hard to press
Possible battery wear problem
Speakers have some echo

 

NOOOO GRAINY SCREEN?!?! Do you know that manufacturer? This may be the death knell of my V2s purchase.

 

Nice review. Tx for the information!

In the G1S thread, they had the same problem until someone figured out that uninstalling splendid, and playing around with the gamma in the nvidia control panel, they could make it go away. I don't have the link but I think it's the 2nd or 3rd page in the G1S owners forum. I'll try to dig it up later.

Overall it sounds like a good machine.

 

Definitely dig it up. However, I'm more than a little concerned since the 14-15" Inspirons have been having lots of trouble with the grainyness. Are you sure that by playing around with the gamma you aren't just covering up the grainyness?

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=131044 post number 10

Cliff notes:
I'll repost my suggested settings.

Uninstall Asus Splendid and go to zero gamma, 50% brightness, and 50% contrast in nVidia CPnl if you want a GREAT IMPROVEMENT in clarity of text, being able to see fill-in boxes on webpages, and color saturation. That leaves nVidia CPnl, Power Mgmt, and Mobility Ctr as controlling the screen. With Splendid (published by Macrovision, so it's an add-on), my screen lost settings even in a simple launch of Splendid.... without touching settings... so I uninstalled it and PRESTO, text is sharp and easy to read, looks like a Vaio notebook screen now.

Uninstalling Splendid removes a major module of CPU pixel processing sitting between your GPU and the LCD. Getting rid of the CPU load, since Splendid uses the CPU, not the GPU, is a second benefit, the first being having a usable screen

 

Hmm. Very interesting. Any before/after pictures?

As soon as I saw that the V1s/V2s had the glossy screens I knew there would be trouble.

 

I can see how some people would consider it grainy, if I look close enough on my G1s I can see it too. I don't have splendid anymore though, and i've tweaked the display to my liking to the point that it's not noticable when using my machine.

Oh well, chalk it up to glossy displays.

 

Cool. Nice review.

 

drbugs: thanks for digging up those tips, it worked like a charm.

i received my v1s yesterday from powernotebooks.com and overall i have pretty much the same opinion. a couple things though--only your right click button is hard to press? lucky you, cuz *both* my buttons suck! i have to press down on the far corner of each button to get a click registered. worst touchpad buttons EVAR! no kidding. the touchpad itself is decent though, just those god-awful buttons. at least they bundled a nice little logitech mouse.

also, i definitely notice a good amount of heat coming from the bottom right side, but that might just be because i havent lifted the thing from my lap since i unpacked it!

howd you test out the camera?

 

And to think that I thought the touchpad would be a positive aspect. Grah.

Nice review though.

 

2 1/2 hours with an 8-cell battery? Ouch.

 

It's a shame about the screen. Hopefully uninstalling splendid will do the trick..

As for the the touchpad.... ugh! I'm glad that I almost always use a mouse, but that's still really annoying...

 

I sent in an 11 page review to Andrew 2 days ago so it should be up on the main page shortly, I think you mean left click not right click, But it is very hard to push down, Ive been play Black and White 2 and I keep picking up 50 villagers and moving them, then the left click decides it isnt being pressed hard enough and it throws all the villagers to their deaths : /.

I put the following battery scenarios in my guide, Movie watching, Wifi BT off, Screen 2/8. Web Surfing 2/8 BT WiFi on, Typing 0/8 WiFi BT off, Full power 8/8, cpu 100%, 3D processing, BT WiFi on.

I also found the performance of the inbuilt HD really poor, Averaged like 30MB/s, My old Sony gets about 50MB/s and it was only 80GB.

The wired ethernet isnt doing to well at this point, The best speed ive managed to get is 6.5MB/s My sony copying the exact same file threw its 10/100 Ethernet port gets 10MB/s

 

Thanks for the honest review, been looking forward to see this in person, despite the fact it is the same as my V1JP hehe.

As for Zydan's battery life test, well I am assuming it is the same screen as mine, then when I tested my battery life, I used 2/16 brightness, whereas Zydan used 8/16 brightness. So that's where some battery life could be lost.

Also you will have to check out the GPU and CPU settings for performance, make sure the GPU is underclocked for battery usage, and the CPU around 1.2Ghz for good performance without the sacrifice of battery life. Going lower than 1.2Ghz results in a slow computer, but running at full throttle increases heat and decrease battery life.

In regards to the battery wear, more and more V1S owners are complaining of this issue. All V1JP owners have this problem.

The touchpad itself is quite good, loved it on the V1JP. As for the buttons everyone found it a little tough or in some cases hard. I know when I bring it to school, the girls can't press it hard enough, despite I have used the notebook for a while. Overall the buttons work fine and i don't mind pressing a little hard to make it respond.

Unfortunately with V1S as you mentioned only certain areas of the button will result in an action? Sweet Spot?

I definitely agree this laptop is something I love, sleek, great looks, performance, features, and for the case of the V1S good value for the money. IMHO the V1JP was overpriced by roughly 200-300 CAD when compared to all other notebooks and especially the G1P.

Zydan, install NHC (notebook hardware control), google it, and there you will find temps and battery wear and so much more.

Aside from that, the right hand side it warm, obviously because the CPU and GPU are placed there, plus the vent, making the entire right side of the laptop, top and bottom warm, while leaving the entire left side of the laptop cool.

Regardless, V1S should be a pleasure to use, I am really considering getting this myself. If only I could find a buyer for my V1JP. hehe

Thanks,

MysticGolem

 

Nice review . . . waited a long time for this . . .

Sad about the battery wear, screen (any confirmation on the fix working?), and HDD issues though . . .

 

does asus use 64 bit windows or 32?
and if you re load everything with the recovery disk does all of the bloat ware get re-installed too ?

 

Asus ships with 32bit versions of Vista, you can upgrade to 64bit if you like, most people who want to run 4GB of Ram, will have to use 64bit.

Here's a is guide on how to install XP Pro without installing the bloatware.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=81828

I am not sure if anyone has successfully completed this process with Vista.

Here's a break down of steps for XP Pro though:
1) Insert recover disc, install windows
2) Let the system hang for 2 minutes when it asks for the driver CD.
3) The system will reboot and then go into Windows
4) Put the Driver/Utilities CD into the drive and install the programs you want manually.
5) Follow the guide in the order EBE states, to get large NTFS cluster sizes, you don't want to be stuck with small clusters.

Hope this helps.

 

All OEM's use Vista 32 bit to my knowledge unless you request otherwise, There are drivers on the disk for Vista 64Bit so you could upgrade through microsoft, I think its very cheap/free to do as long as your sticking with the same model. The driverdisc is seperate to the OS disc, It lets you choose which drivers and utilities to install.

 

MileStone: I beleive sumfoo was referenceing the V1S which does not have an XP driver disc so that guide isnt to usefull. I made a guide two days ago on how to put XP on the V1S, But Sumfoo didnt mention XP, just 64bit.

 

Yah I am aware he is not interested in XP Pro, I just haven't seen a guide for Vista, so I was assuming that EBE's guide could be generally used for Vista. But you have already stated, the the recovery disc contains the OS, and Asus does provide the drivers/utility disc aswell. (Thanks for clarification)

 

Its so nice getting real recovery discs, I accidentally deleted my recovery partition on my Sony and they refused to send me a replacement, Then on my dell I burnt DVD's with the backups, When I went to restore it to return it the DVD's were coasters with half the files refusing to open and the disc wouldnt load in any of my other drives. So to get real discs is great, Given how cheap a CD and DVD is to produce it seems insane to make your customers go through this sorta stuff.

 

Haha, yes I understand what you mean. Asus does this due to legality issues, hehe cost for CDs and DVDs are basically nothing anymore. (Can't have piracy going on ) hehe

 

LiquidInfo,

I would have ordered from them too, but I couldn't find this model on their website, I didn't realize they had this. The closest thing I see is a PowerPro model based on Asus S96s.

If anyone has a link to the V1s on powernotebooks.com, please post it.l

 

pnb.com had the v1s up for like 36 hours, if that. they "were getting a few" last week from what I was told and I was lucky enough to scoop one up before they were gone. total price was just over $1900 with 2 day shipping.

i am sure they took it down in order to avoid the whole "OMG i ordered 3 months ago where is my IFL90 WTF" fiasco with Compal. they'll prolly put it back up when they get some more in stock. in the meanwhile, i'm satisfied with their service and would recommend to anyone.

as for the v1s . . . i think the touchpad buttons are a huge blunder on the part of Asus. if they wanna make a serious "business" notebook, they have a ways to go as far as quality control. lots of power and style--but a few oversights mar an otherwise solid notebook. and dont even get me started on this battery wear thing. i'm mulling over whether or not i even wanna install nhc to check, because asus isnt doing anything to solve the problem anyway, right?

maybe i shoulda got a thinkpad . . .

 

.. This makes me want to cancel my V2s order..

And get a W7S-B1B instead..

 

V1S != V2S They are two very different machines, The V2 has no reported battery or touchpad buttons. But it is extremely annoying with that left click.

 

I already asked my vendor to cancel my order..

It'll be my notebook for a long long time, and I'd rather have something I don't have to compromise to..

I couldn't find ANY v2s-a1 information about its quality anywhere.. point me!

 

I agree, for almost $2500 with warranty and upgrades, the battery and touchpad issues are unacceptable. I'm about to cancel also. Since it's Sunday and the reseller is closed anyway, I'll wait on a decision until tonight or tomorrow morning. This really seemed like the one. Now I'm leaning toward hp 8510p..I'll happily sacrifice a bit of GPU power, webcam, and delivery delays if there are no major issues are reported with the HP. 8510p should be close in build quality and even a bit thinner and lighter.

 

The problems with the V1s were all present with the V1JP, It is fairly safe to assume its the same for the V2s and the V2Je, Its not to hard to work out . Personally I woudlnt be buying one for a week or two anyway since resellers have said their next shipment will have the next CPU up (2.2ghz - 2.4ghz)

 

Well, with the V2s we have:

Risk of a grainy screen. Dell 1440x900 screens have this problem in the Inspiron 1420.

Goofy touchpad buttons.

Mediocre battery life according to the V2je review.


Disappointing.

 

Personally most of the flaws that I find with this notebook are related more to software issues than actual hardware issues. My touchpad buttons are finally starting to wear in and the clicking isn't as bad.

Battery wear on the other hand concerns me. Right now mine is stable at 3%. Zydan I would appreciate it if you could check yours sometime using Notebook Hardware Control.
Tim

 

How do the touchpad buttons work, exactly? Is there any actual click or is it just a touch sensor like on some newer phones? I had an LG Chocolate with those and I returned it within three days.

I'm also interested in the manufacturer of the screens in the V1s. Can you guys check?

 

Well I did the review on the V2Je and I agree meh_cd it has just mediocre battery life, but I do believe the Santa Rosa chipset and new graphics card should extend battery life a little more. Some laptops in general are reporting more battery life than the previous generation.

As for problems, there weren't any problems to speak of, I mainly had 3 gripes with the V2, vent on the right hand side, mediocre battery life, and no multi-bay. Regardless the V2Je was shipped with 2 batteries, so the user can carry 2 batteries.

Here on the forums no one has complained about battery wear, so it 'may' be safe to say it doesn't suffer from the same problems as the V1JP.

 

Yeah the buttons click. You need to click more in the bottom left corner (for the left button) and the bottom right (for the right button) to have them work the best (they also don't make as much noise when you click there). If you click in the center of the button there is a small "popping" noise. I don't think it is too bad at all.
Tim

 

Hey thanks for the honest review. My friend was looking to buy this(he can afford to dig $2500) and i will definitely let him know. But what worries me is the battery life and click buttons. My lappy has mediocre click buttons but gets the same battery life(almost) as this model .

 

Tim, good to hear your buttons are feeling better. Mine behave the same way (bottom left / bottom right to make them work) but the stiffness of the overall button is just driving me nuts! Heres hoping that they'll break in with a little use.

 

Do you mean vent on the left side? The V2s has the vent on the left as opposed to the right. I assume the V2je was the same.

I also don't think the V2s is going to ship with two batteries anymore.

And that is reassuring about the buttons. The touch sensor would have been a deal breaker.

 

I just unistalled Splendid and adjusted the settings like you guys recommended. Wow I can actually read the screen without squinting now. lol
Tim

 

Oh yah thanks meh_cd you right, I was thinking about the V1JP for a second here. I am currently using one and testing the left and right click buttons. In Tim's post above, he is correct, bottom left corner for left click and bottom right corner for right click. Same goes for the sound.

To be honest, when using the V1JP touchpad, I don't use the left click button at all, instead just use the touchpad to double click and drag, while using the right click to get properties when needed.

Yes, I have seen more and more people removing Asus Splendid software to and get better results, (i guess it is isn't so 'Splendid' irony) hehe.

I just did a quick test of a movie on the V1JP using the main battery, 0% wear, CPU clocked at 1.2ghz, wifi on, max brightness, wide screen movie, the battery miser stated over 2 hours of playback. So you can easily finish a movies and have some time left.

Those who get the multi-bay battery just may be able to watch 2 movies that are 1 hour and 30 mins long, or a couple episodes of LOST.

 

My left click button also is starting to wear in, or I'm getting used to it one because it's not being as difficult as before.

As far as the 2nd point, I downloaded the program and I believe I did it right. I've used my laptop constantly since I got it, letting the battery die down and charging it back up and the program is showing 0% wear.
Here's a screen shot.

 

That is good to hear about the battery wear Zydan! Maybe I was overreacting a little bit. Mine seems pretty stable at the moment. As long as I don't lose more during this week I will probably be okay with it.

 

Fingers crossed on the battery wear. I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on this one. Tx for all of the information provided by the new V1S owners.

Zydan, how many charge/discharge cycles have you put the battery through?

Tx!

 

What??? V1s will be upgraded whit 2.4 ghz CPU???
When?

 

Hmmm I'd say probably around 8 maybe.

Also I tried the grainy screen fix that was used on the G1S, Didn't really seem to do anyting for me.

 

Nice amount on the discharge/recharge cycles versus the wear compared to what others are reporting.

Sorry to hear that the splendid/nvidia tweeking didn't help! How would you rate the screen? Do you know what the manufacturer is?

Another question is how good the finger print scanner works. Any thoughts?

Tx again!
Randy

 

Err I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Zydens ACPI is reporting the wrong battery details much like mine has been. His full capacity is stated as being 75510, The max capacity of the battery under any circumstance is 75000, This breifly happened to me, seems like the battery is just reporting any old number, in the last few days I have had 6%, 8%, 11%, 2%, 1%, 0%(displayed more than the max capacity of the battery) and im now sitting on about 0.5% wear (74295/75000)

As for the 2.4ghz version I think one of the resellers said two weeks, Also asking a question in caps with lots of !!!??? Is not going to make anyone answer you faster, Quite the oppisite.

 

The manufacturer under hardware ID says SEC3346, I believe that's Samsung.

Screen is still very nice, just a tad grainy on any light colored background. It's a problem that seems to be going around lately.
Unless your extremely picky you'll grow used to it. I don't even notice it anymore really.

Fingerprint reader works great. I had couple other people test it out to make sure, and only one that could acess the laptop is myself.

First time to have a fingerprint reader, but seems great!

 

In people's opinions, is waiting for the 2.4 Ghz version worth the wait?

Is that extra 0.2 Ghz really going to make that much of a difference?

 

I guess it all depends on your patience

 

Zydan,

When you did the Benchmark, what settings did you use?

Similar to this by chance?

"All graphics benchmarks were run with settings at 1024x768 no anti-aliasing, optimal filtering, HLSL VS and PS target: 3_0"

I'm trying to get an accurate comparison between the G1S and V1S and obviously the conditions need to be the same to get good results.