W2P, MR X1700, MR X1450, and MR X1350

ATI has finally spoken up about the MR X1700, MR X1450, and MR X1350. Basically there is no difference in the latter two while the MR X1700 uses a strained silicon 90nm process from TSMC. ATI is claiming that allows better performance/watt. Actual performance improvement isn't impressive as we already know and it's really in line with what a driver update can accomplish. I doubt strained silicon lowers power much either since ATI's slides gives more focus to the Back Bias technology introduced with the MR X1600 than strained silicon itself. The first launch product with the MR X1700 is the W2P. I've talked more in this news thread:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=79433

 

What puzzles me the most is how ASUS keeps on putting mediocre (for its size) graphics on the W2 series. Why can't they put in something more acceptable like the GeForce Go 7900GS or Mobility Radeon X1800? I mean, it's hard enough playing games at native res with the W2j (1680x1050, X1600) at acceptable framerates; imagine playing games at 1920x1200 with virtually the same GPU. What were they thinking?

 

affordability?

 

Cost, power consumption, and heat dissipation. The GPU makers need to etch their chips with the same process that CPU manufacturers are using -if you shrink the die then you can run it at a lower voltage and at least solve the heat and power issues...

 

The W2 is a media center pc...not a gaming pc. The fact is that media pcs are a bigger market then gaming pcs and ASUS knows that they cant go after that very small and volitile market...and win. If you look at any of the media pc/laptops being produced by the major manf. they all have run of the mill gpus....cause thats all they need and people want to be able to watch a 2h+ dvd off battery. You cant do that with a gefore7900 etc.
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Well.. if they didnt set their mind of putting the HD DVD rom in, i bet the price would sink a few hundreds. At time of tis, i wont even consider buying either a HD or even BD drive. U just dunno who would win or they ll be put together, rendering the drive nearly useless when u need the other format. But i do agree bout the heat, the W2 can't handle higher end GPU. But i would rather that they put the nvidia 7700 in rather than the x1700. ASUS, PLEASE LAUNCH ANOTHER W2 WITH JUST A NORMAL DVD ROM!!!

 

True enough, but there is another segment of crazy individuals like myself who want a gaming laptop but we don't like scoliosis...

 

I read that Warner Brothers paid for a team of engineers to come up with a drive that reads both formats -and it's not expensive. So I'll wait for a multi format HD drive to come out...

 

Can it not be both? While the X1600 is not in the same league as a 7900 or 1900 GPU, it's still an admirable performer. I'm not trying to split hairs, but I don't want anyone to think that the the W2J is not a capable gaming rig either. I've been playing current games on my W2JB and I am extremely pleased with the overall performance of this card. Very good framerates with most options at or near max, and I haven't even used the TV tuner yet!

 

w2 is a very strange machine in that it uses a gpu the same size as the w3j, smaller than the a8j.

So its a large thin and cool design. Not what most people are looking for, but if they are its there.

Not trying to compete with the dell xps 1710 or e1705 or etc sager 5670.

 

Well the launch machine of the x1700 would be the a8jp, and f3jp both for sale in europe right now.

What Im wondering is if the x1700 in those two machines will actually use different ram than the one in the w2jp. What information leads you to believe the w2jp is the launch notebook? Its supposed to be out in november and these two machines are out now.

Im just wondering if you know something about this I dont, or if the next x1700 will possibly be different.

 

Well it is the launch product in the sense it is the model that ATI/ASUS are promoting to correspond with the launch MR X1700. Not that there is anything against the A8Jp or the F3Jp, but the W2P is the higher-end model and has the HD-DVD drive so it would be the logical choice for the newsworthy product.

Also given that the A8Js Go 7700 uses DDR2 400 memory it wouldn't surprise me that the A8Jp MR X1700 and F3Jp MR X1700 uses DDR2 400 memory as well. The W2P would then have the advantage of using GDDR3 (probably 500) as well as higher clocks because of the larger chassis.

 

exactly ok. Im trying to see if anything leads you to believe the ram in the x1700 in the w2jp is any different than the one in the a8jp.

I read that you said that ok, is there something that leads you to believe this?

You might be repeating something you heard me write ok, about the release of the x1600 and x1600 hd. Ok but now Im trying to find news that the x1700 will be exactly the same. And that the scores for the x1700 will actually be 1.5 times the x1600( or um... 1.5 times the ddr2 x1700 rather). Ok thats what Im trying to find news on.

 

Now that's exactly the response I was looking for. One thing I'm still not too sure about though. Why would ASUS choose 256MB of video memory instead of 512MB? There shouldn't be any thermal differences. Besides, I don't see it costing a premium seeing how much the W2p already costs and all. Having 512MB of video memory would actually attract more people to the product... me for example.

 

Well there's no way the MR X1700 would show a 1.5 times performance increase over the MR X1600. I asked abach, a A8Jp owner to try to determine his GPU core and memory clocks so hopefully we'll have the answer soon enough. Still he ran 3DMark05 at stock and he got 3722 compared to a stock 1.83GHz Core Duo W3J which can get more than 3900. That definitely points to me that the MR X1700 in the A8Jp is clocked lower than the MR X1600 in the W3J, which implies that the MR X1700 in the A8Jp is using DDR2 400 like the Go 7700 in the A8J compared to the GDDR3 500 in the W3J. That just goes to show that newer isn't always better and it also leads me to believe that the Merom W3J won't be much behind the A8J at all despite the Go 7700.

 

I don't believe ATI has ever produced a 512MB configuration in their mobile GPUs. Even the MR X1800XT uses 256MB of GDDR3. For the MR X1600/MR X1700 512MB of RAM is irrelevent anyways since the GPU is just not powerful enough to support gameplay at resolutions that would really show an advantage to the extra memory. The same is true for the Go 7600 and Go 7700. It's more a gimic than anything. The only reason why the 512MB nVidia version may be faster than the 256MB versions is simply because the 512MB versions are higher end and therefore likely to be clocked higher either at the core or memory or both. The extra memory doesn't really serve much purpose other than generating heat and using power. Besides, ATI has an insurance policy with HyperMemory in the unlikely event that you end up using (slightly) more than 256MB of RAM so it's a reasonable tradeoff.

 

I'll agree that more RAM equals more power consumption and it doesn't equal more performance (maybe) -but I disagree that 512 MB of video RAM is a gimmick. As games progress the textures and tile sets that are used to give objects color and depth are getting bigger. Having more video RAM means that you can store those textures in the video card's frame buffer, instead of having to pull them from a cache area in main system RAM or the hard drive. So in a game that uses large textures having more video RAM could increase performance, or at the very least give you the opportunity to use those large textures (some settings in the game could be video RAM size dependent).

Take a look at the reviews in PC Gamer and pay close attention to their recommended system requirements. I've seen a couple of games in the last few months where the editors of PC Gamer recommended a video card with 512 MB of RAM. So don't write off anything more than 256MB as a "gimmick". Bill Gates once said that we would never need more than 640 KB of RAM in a PC...

 

Like said, there are a few cases where over 256MB of video RAM may help, but those cases are very rare since the processing power of mid-range cards would be the limiting factor in complex visual environments rather than memory size. This is especially true when considering textures and the MR X1600 and MR X1700 GPUs. They only have 4 TMUs which mean they severely lack texture processing power (compared to the Go 7600 and Go 7700) which would definitely be the limiting factor. That is why ATI is trying to stress use of Pixel Shaders in order to avoid the space and bandwidth constraints that textures impose. The use of 256MB of memory is probably a logical extension of their 3:1 PS to TMU ratio as well as the decreasing returns reason.

 

can someone in the US get one of those 2 models that you mentioned are out in Europe? just a matter of finding an online retailer who has it? Everything else will work though here.

what are those 2 models, what size screen. i'm assuming f3jp is 15.4 like the old one.

Is there going to be a new version of the Asus v6j the wa that was the update t he v6v?

a core 2 duo version.

are there any other 15" laptops that are thin like the asus v6j. i really wanted 15.4'' but doubt there is anyone thin ones with that screen size.

prob just going to get a v6j, just a shame how much it is (more then a asus w3j that everyone likes but is a 14'' screen) but i think the rest of the specs are the same so you are paying more for 1"

i dont really like/want a Dell but itis nice how you can completely customize one and get a good deal. I configured a inspiron 6400 with 2ghz core 2 duo and the works for like 1500 while the Asus v6j is like 1800-1900 with less features lower specs, just its thinner.

not sure what to get now. realizing the dell is a good deal makes me rethink it after i wrote it off. Overall i want the v6j as its the only thin 15" i know of but the lower specs and higher price have me holding back.

not sure what else i should consider. would consider w3j but wife even said she wants 15" or 15.4" screen, 17 is too big but 14 like the w3j is too small.

 

wanted the W2P but not waiting till Nov. and having to pay top dollar.

 

I would wait until it has the hybrid HD-BD drive. Onli a little disappointed with the specs of the machine, but huge disappointment with the price.

 

For gaming that's true, for CAD and 3D PRO apps that's not the case, but they are less affected by the lag of Hypermemory than games are, so 512MB of HM support is almost as good as having a dedicated 512MB buffer, sure it's not as good, but not quite as bad as not having the buffer space as latency isn't as big an issue.

That's the case in most situations, but as previously mentioned some games like BF2 and Oblivion it allows you quality differences for higher quality textures, and also reduces buffer issues (like for HDR+AA+AF). However the impact other than texture quality is less than the impact of a few % increase on the memory or core speeds.

Depends on the app, but that is the case in most older games, but future games will make more use of it, especially depending on things like the use of the unbalanced designs for things like Physics as well.

Not good for gaming though, too much latency, better bet for gaming is to reduce texture, resolution size, or AA level.

HM will be best for those 128MB computers that want to use the vectored desktop in Vista which has a reco of 256MB for full features with multi-layers.

 

The thing about 17" is the chassis size, my Gateway is smaller than my old 14" DELL.

DELL, ASUS, ACER, and most HP 17" have huge chassis, and annoyingly small keyboards (many without numpads), the Gateway and some HPs have nice shallow chassis, with Keypads.

The biggest drawback of 15" laptops IMO is small LCDs (no 19x12) and mediocre keyboards.

I was at first aprehensive about moving to 17", but after having switched I prefer it easily. The only drawback is weight, but even then some 15" like the DELLs are heavier anyways. Also you need a good size bag to begin with.

The ASUS though has terrible keyboard layout, unnescessary subwoofer (get an external sound setup for cripes sake, save the weight), and could use alot of tweaks for placement. The Gateway N860 and HP NX9420 have great chassis, they just need to be given the guts of the ASUS and Toshiba models. Toshiba is close to good, but they only put the premium features (like HD-DVD on their Qosmios, which have terrible keyboards).

BTW folks, you can always add external drives later if you're worried about the format wars. Pick your poison for now and then get an external later if you need it, I'm keepign my LG for DVD-RAM support, plus anything that the new drives lack (hey current plain DVD-/+R drives already have issues reading some older burned CDs, so compatability issues are liekly for both BR and HD-DVD.

 

I ll stick to DVDs for now
Asus only made 1 mistake with the keyboard, the CTRL and the FN key. Other than that, and added numeric pad would be nice, but would possibly ruin the looks of the keyboard area.

 

might give t2500 v6j to wife and get W2p for myself (instead of sharing v6j) end of nov. begin of dec. when its released.

with no v1j in sight for NA, the W2p is the only upcoming asus merom update I am interested in.

plus many asus merom updates like w3j even might be 2mb cache t5600.

right now hddvd is better and recommended by video experts. was going to maybe get a $500 or so hddvd player so can justify that much of the cost of the laptop as more of an all in one device and can move the laptop to diff tvs where as dedicated player usually stays connected to one.

as long as it plays in full 1080p through the hdmi to tv unlike the toshiba quosmio.

the W2p should be an upgrade to the v6j in every way except portability(size & weight)

some say the W2 is a thin and nice looking 17'' but then the other guy says the gateway (and an hp) is a smaller chassis 17'' as if the W2p is big and bulky in comparison?

 

W2 look nice becoz of the material colour. I would go for the HP just because it is cheaper, but only IF they r slicker and for the god sake, change the colour at the surface of where the keyboard is. Cant they just do all in BLACK? I personally like the look of the dv8000 more than the dv9000.

 

so whats the verdict?

x1600, x1700 or go7600 for playing games like hl2:source?