W3J Vs. Macbook

I'm probably not at the purchasing stage yet but my friend and I are both looking at laptops for ( surprise!) college. At the moment, my pick is the W3J and his is the Macbook. We're playing the game of who's getting a better bargain. A maxed out Macbook is $250 less than a similarly equipped W3J but lacks any real video card, an ExpressCard port, a swappable modular bay and a modem (which, believe it or not, still is is necessary at some motels). I play some C&C Generals, use Photoshop, Dreamweaver and a fair share of audio/video editing programs. He plays few games if any (taking the "That's what I have an Xbox for" approach) but does most of the other listed stuff to a lesser extent. $250 isn't a huge difference but what else would you point out that the W3J has and the Macbook lacks? Visa Versa? It's a tough choice, both are a bargain. (P.S.) I'm gonna use Windows on whatever I get so I guess maybe add $100 to the Macbook's price.

~ Brett

 

the w3j lacks the ability burn people.

the macbook has been prone to being too hot to touch. ironically....i think asus is actually the odm for the macbooks. also, if you plan on doing bootcamp, you will have to add the price of xp to the macbook if you don't already have your own copy.

 

haha - yea, I know about that and batteries bursting into flames but it's hard to convinve someone of that 'till the see it. I mentioned the extra cost of Vista at the bottom of my post. Does Microsoft do decent student discounts on Windows?

Thanks!
~ Brett

 

the macbook will run into difficulties running the upcoming vista....

http://news.cnet.co.uk/software/0,39029694,49256440,00.htm

 

I did read that stuff but that was several months ago and a GM at an Apple store hinted that Leopard's built-in Boot Camp would support Vista. Otherwise, why else have it? Thanks for your help! Anything on the hardware side (besides the graphics card) in favor of the W3J?

Thanks!
~ Brett

 

At my university bookstore they sell Windows XP Pro and Microsoft Office for $5 each just an FYI

Of course the W3J packs a better punch because of its graphics card, but if you want to make an even comparison with an Apple product you should look at the MacBook Pro. MacBook Pro's start at $1999 and with a student discount you can get it for $1899.

I was recently torn between an Asus S96J/Z96J, W3J and a MacBook or MacBook Pro. I decided on the MacBook, because I love the design and look of the black MacBooks. It also does everything I need it to do.

I would suggest a MacBook Pro if you do alot of audio/video editting and dual-booting XP to run Photoshop and Dreamweaver. You will benefit more from the x1600 than the intergrated graphics of the MacBook.

If you're looking for the best bargain and don't mind getting a 15.4in laptop, look into the Asus S96J/Z96J. The 96J's are customizable and can be made to have better or equal specs as the W3J.

Any of the Asus' are good choices that won't leave you dissappointed.

 

hardware wise you have it pretty much nailed. the only thing that comes to mind may be the glossy screen vs. matte, but that's a matter of preference....though the matte macbook screen may have better viewing angles (not sure about that point). ummm....the macbooks also only have a single mouse button, instead of two. but that is a matter of preference as well. also, i think the cpu is soldered to the motherboard in the macbook so if you had any desire to upgrade to merom, you would not be able to.

 

Hmm, unfortunately, once the Macbook Pro's specs match those of the W3J, its price shoots up $300 more than the the Asus with the student discout. It's also an inch bigger, and for me, smaller is better. Back on the regulat Macbook front, will I notice a difference in graphics when going through fairly common tasks like DVD playing and the like. Could the Macbook even play C&C: Generals with any grace?

Thanks!
~ Brett

 

That cnet article was written in March and predates the April release of Boot Camp, Apple's boot utility to allow Windows XP and Vista to run on Intel Macs. When that article was written, nobody supposed anything like Boot Camp would come along, but the speculation was that Macs would be able to boot Vista in the future because Vista was going to support EFI booting. The release of Boot Camp made such guessing irrelevant because Boot Camp provided basically an EFI to BIOS translation to allow XP and current Vista Beta installers to boot.

There is little doubt that Boot Camp will be able to support the final releases of Vista when they come out.

I have not heard of burning batteries with the MacBook. I would urge you to do your own research before believing something like this; we all know some people like to say negative things about Apple products for whatever reason. FWIW, I just got a Compaq V2000Z, and last month was notified of a recall of certain batches of the battery for melting and fire risk:
http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-6063374.html?part=rss&tag=6063374&subj=news

That is a fact.

 

I'm fine with either matte of glossy (but probably prefer matte) and the single mouse button wouldn't bother me too much. Having to go through hoops to run Windows would bother me, however. Wow - it's good to know the solder the Macbook's chip in. Why on earth would they do that?

Thanks!
~ Brett

 

Doing common graphics oriented tasks on the MacBook shouldnt be TOO bad, but of course the W3J would probably be faster.

If you plan on using the MacBook as a Windows machine you're wasting money. You should buy the MacBook because you want to use OSX and the other great software that Apple has to offer.

It all depends on what you see as more valuable, software or hardware specs? From all the questions you're asking, I'd suggest to stick with the W3J.

The MacBook would be a balance between software and hardware specs. You can run windows and OSX on the same laptop.

The W3J has better hardware stats and its easier to upgrade its parts. You will be restricted to windows software only, but assuming you're a lifetime windows user you probably won't notice anything you're missing from OSX.

 

well, i know that they soldered it on the macbook pro....i am not 100% sure if they've done it to the macbook, though. i assume that they did b/c the reason for doing that is to make the notebook thinner.

 

Well there's this , this and, most scary of all, this and its comments. I've heard so many complaints, it's starting to get a little worrying. So aside from the heat issue and the lack of the graphics card, nobody can think of reason to get the W3J over the Macbook!? Hmm... (pondering )

Thanks!
~ Brett

 

I am a lifetime Windows user (and a very recent Linux user) so, while I find Mac OSX cool, I'm very comfortable in Windows. I also don't want to start a whole OSX vs. Windows debate but a good portion of the programs I use are Windows only. Just out of curiosity, which questions lead you to make the inference that I'm better cut out for the W3J? Also, is the graphics card difference just a matter of speed or a difference in quality of the final product? Or do the two overlap (i.e. - Gameplay is so prohibited by the speed of the graphics card, the game's overall quality is decreased)?

Thanks!
~ Brett

 

The MacBook uses an intergrated graphics card while the W3J uses a dedicated graphics card. I think the MacBook's graphics card gets its memory from RAM, while the x1600 has 256mb and borrows another 256mb from RAM.

 

About the heat and the whine noises, I believe that yes they are a problem, but only to a certain leve. Honestly most mac users are overly nitpicky about their prodcuts. They complain about everything from crooked latches to latch squeal. For every post I read about someone complaining about heat or whine, theres also someone who posts they've never had a problem with either.

I think the MacBook's run hot, but not enough to stop anyone from not buying it.

Just be sure to buy an Apple Care Protection Plan to put any of those worries to rest and to use as a "just in case" option.

Today I went to go buy a Black MacBook from the Apple Store, but they didn't have any in stock I did buy an Apple Care Protection Plan that cost around $200 and came with a free printer. I'll have to order it online

If money is tight, I'd suggest getting the base MacBook for $1099. That is the best value for your money. Do not buy the RAM or Harddrive upgrades from Apple because they overcharge like craaazy. You can buy 2 gigs of RAM off of newegg.com for $180 and you can buy a 7200rpm 100gig HDD for $190. Apple only sells 5200rpm HDD's.

 

I really hate this lack of knowledge about GPUs. (or I don't know how to word it, this downplaying of how important a GPU is) the graphics card is everything to a game. It is the be all and end all of your ability to play a game. As long as you have a gig of memory and more than 700 mhz (from 5 years ago) on you cpu you can get most games to function, but if you don't have the GPU you won't play anything that came out this year.

You can not play graphics intensive games with integrated graphics at all. Anytime you dip below 12 frames per second you will notice the lag, at >8fps you essentially can't play a game. The X1600 will probably get 20fps on most games depending on your game settings. The integrated card will struggle to get 12 on the lowest settings and will stutter anytime the action gets intense in a game. (IE- when you need it most.)

Integrated graphics cards are meant to run windows, your internet browser, and a game of solitaire. They can play a few games, but you will struggle to get those cards to make a top of the line game playable.

/thats my rant for today.
//essentially if you ever intend of buying Half life 2, oblivion, fear, or hell even everquest 2 which is already 2 years old. Don't depend on integrated graphics.

 

Luckily, money isn't all that tight and even if I don't get the upgrades from Apple, I'd wind up paying twice for the RAM and HD inside anyway which I'm then stuck with. Anyway, with all this GPU talk, integrated graphics seem like more and more of a problem. Do you only see issues when gaming? Oh, and if I add AppleCare, I'm already back up to the Asus's price!

Thanks!
~ Brett

 

The answer to this used to be yes. But with Windows vista making the shift to a real 3d environment, the answer will soon be no. If you want the bells and whistles of vista then you will want a decent graphics card.

 

If you use programs like Photoshop, CAD, and for video editing... then a dedicated GPU is recommended.

 

I can't possibly see the reason why he would want Vista if he already has Mac OSX. Most programs are coming in Universal Binary, so they work on both PPC and Intel-based Apple computers. What Vista will bring, OSX already has.

You all seem to be concerned about Aero but Mac OSX already has the visually more pleasing GUI out of the bunch.

This is especially true when testing Vista Beta . . .

On to the topic though, as has been mentioned the Asus W3J features a dedicated graphic card and the Apple MacBook comes with the integrated Intel GMA950. As most people don't know, the Intel GMA950 will be enough to power the much fabled Aero in Vista

If we look at the designs, they are both pleasing but I would guess the MacBook runs off with a slight victory. A shame the W3J is not fully made of light-weight 'alu' but I can see the cost reasons for not doing so.

Batterylife should also be factored in, at most, the W3J will get you around 3:30 to 4:00 hours of life before it goes down. The MacBook can easily reach 5:00 hours and more. So if you have to sit at an extended period of time, during a lecture, I know which one I would pick

There will, as with most things, be a transition time before you feel comfortable with the looks and feel of Mac OSX but I am certain it will grow on you. It surprised me to say the least and I have been using Windows XP ever since it was released.

You can also grab a refurbished MacBook Pro for $1599 . . . which is a steal.

 

Considering the fact that I am talking about a windows based machine using windows. I think mentioning windows vista is relevant.

OSX even has 3d requirements. It just seemlessly scales itself back if you don't meet those requirements. So the statement would hold true for a mac, and for future editions of mac's OS.

 

Most people don't know that. Its claim is to be windows vista comapatable, but nobody knows how well you will be able to run a game with the OS already pulling juice from the GPU.

 

unfortunately you really can't exactly compare the Macbook to the W3J.

the W3J is slightly bigger because of the Dedicated GPU, gets lower batterylife because of the GPU and slightly bigger screen.

But then when you look at the price, the Macbook is cheaper.

If you don't need or want a dedicated GPU by all means the Macbook is amazing! <- you say it will be able to run Aero glass, well that still won't make me be able to play Oblivion or something.

If you need a portable laptop to do basically everything you want, go for the W3J because ofthe Dedicated GPU + you can put in the modular battery and that would increase batterylife (3 hours for main, 1 hour for Modular) <-guess.

For me i want a nice design laptop, with the option of a modular bay, and an X1600. That's it. If the Macbook Pro had a modular bay, that woulda been nice.

And where can you get refursbished MBP's that is definately a good price, plz link.

Thanks,

MysticGolem

 

Whenever you load an application the GUI unloads itself, clearing up all ressources to the program.

 

Directly from Apple, with full warranty.

 

You can also visit macbookcentral.com for an extensive listing of deals, coupon codes, rebates, and refurbs on Apple laptops.

 

I think you just answered your own question...cheaper - better with gaming (which it looks like is a factor) - wider range of software options. W3j for the win.

 

Pressure, anything for CAnada too? thanks for the info.

Yah one of my concerns with the Apple, is that i just wouldn't feel right, using bootcamp to run XP... and i definately don't know how to use MAC OS or trouble shoot or even install stuff, plus i don't know where to get stuff for Mac OS.. hehe

I still don't know what and how to set up a network with MAC or even with a LAptop in general lol, but i bet it will be a lot hard with a MAC.

I am gonna stick with PC, W3J for the win, (dedicated GPU + modular).

Thanks,

MysticGolem

 

Ok, you guys have been an enormous help. So you can't run Aero to the fullest with integrated graphics? To be honest, I'm gonna wind up running Windows on whatever I get. I like the fact that new programs come out for Windows first and the small one-person developer programs often come out only for Windows. In terms of gaming... hmm... I go through short binges of a couple weeks or so every once in a while of playing C&C: Generals or Simcity (not the most graphics intensive game) but I'm always open to new games (i.e. if Ghost Recon came out for Windows, I'd be on that in a second). I guess that really pushes me in the Asus direction. Is the W3J still gonna be around when Core 2 (Merom) chips come out? I know it's a drop-in on the Yonah chips cracking it open to replace it and then being stuck with an extra CPU seems like a major waste.

Thanks!!!
~ Brett

Edit - it turns out it is out for PC... this decision may have just gotten a whole lot easier. Can anybody comment on running games through Boot Camp?

Edit 2 - A lot of people think the port from Xbox to PC didn't go over that well so, alas, I'll probably keep looking for that perfect game(tm).

 

Ok, I tried to read this, but kinda got lost. People seem to kinda be all over the place, LOL! So as I understand it you are trying to decide between a MacBook and W3J.

I am not sure where you get your prices from, so I will price them myself. Configured to the same specs (thru Apple) I come to $1274 with education discount. The W3J retails for $1799 with no education discount. I know some resellers offer edu discounts, so look around. Those are the same exact machine(1.83, 1GB(512x2), 100GB drive.) except for the video card, so figure about a $400(assuming you get some edu discount for the Asus) difference for the video card.

So here is what it seems to come down to. Do you game? if yes get the W3J. Also, if you are thinking of using the Mac as a full-time Windows box, do yourself a favor and get the Asus. Boot Camp is not mature enough for that, and may never be.

From what I have seen of needs/wants the W3J will make a better fit.

 

cashmonee, how did you get your prices? The W3J we know is at $1799 (unless I get a discount). But at Apple's site, I'm boosting the RAM to a gig and the hard drive to 100 gigs. I then get $1549, $1449 after a student discount from what I understand. That's a $350 difference unless I can get a discount on the W3J. The general consensus around here is that Macs should not be running Windows full-time so that's gonna weigh heavily on my decision.

Thanks!
~ Brett

Edit: Also, from what I've heard here and elsewhere, a new Macbook owner needs to get the AppleCare plan which is $250 (dunno how much after student-discount).

 

I think you are pricing the black one, while I am pricing the white. For some ridiculous reason Apple has place a $150 premium on black. The black also has a 2.0 GHz chip while the W3J only has a 1.83, another area you can save money on if you went white. Also, as I understand, you are a student so make sure you are shopping in the education store. If you are in the high school to college transition just choose the college you will be going to.

As for AppleCare, you have one year from purchas of the notebook to add it. So after 10 months you are thinking the problems aren't really a problem you don't have to get. Or, conversely, you may decide it's worth it. Point is you have until the original 1-year warranty is over.

 

I'm in Emory University's custom Apple Edu store. I'm using the white Macbook (the middle selection) and taking the hard drive to 100 gigs and the RAM to 1 gig. It comes to $1,424. Maybe student discounts vary by location? And the one-year to purchase Applecare info is really good to know!

Thanks!
~ Brett

 

The middle is the 2.0, I priced the the 1.83. LOL! We found the difference. If I price the 2.0 with those specs it comes to 1424 like you say. So I guess you can decide whether the 2.0 and superdrive are worth it now too! I would stick with W3J. If you want to game that is the other way to go. Plus if you are not gonna switch to OSX, you really should get a Windows lappy.

 

I see - you're going with the furthest left option. If I were to get the Macbook I would go for 2 GHz. Even though the W3J doesn't go that high, it has things the Macbook doesn't to make up for it (gfx card, a modem, swappable bay, card-reader).

Thanks!
~ Brett

 

Haha - I realized at the same time what we had done differently. I think you're right - I'm gonna go with Windows so a laptop built for it and not played around with to barely get it to work is probably best.

Thanks!
~ Brett

Edit - I def. want the superdrive so that makes it easier... sorta.

Edit2 - Does anybody know if the W3J will include Core 2 Duo processors when they come out?

 

have you ever considered the a8jm? it is $1600 at portableone.com (listed as the mx). it has similar performance as the w3j, but lacks the swappable modular bay. also, it is not as nice looking or as well-built as the w3j, but it is more cost efficient....

 

Doesn't the W3j have heat issues as well?

 

Not as bad.

The Macbook's heat issues come from Apple, because though ASUS makes the case, Apple puts the parts in and Apple is layering on 15x too much thermal compound effectively turning it into a furnace for the lap, and a hotplate for the table.

 

people have complained about it venting very hot air and that it is warm to touch on the w3j. but i don't think anyone has been complaining that it was too hot for them to even touch like people have been saying about the macbook. of course i could be wrong, and if anyone has any information otherwise, that would be helpful.

 

No comparison to apple. the w3j will get hot on the bottom if run for a while. but the top of the laptop is fine not hot at all. it may get warm if pushed hard. But apples can get very very hot.