W5 is damn sexy upon first look! But when the price is set as high as Sony's S3XX (namely S360 and S380), what advantages does W5 have?

 

Well first... don't think Asus' unit should be cheap or anything.. the small vaios are made by asus anyway..... so there are some heavy similarities....

However, the S360 is a 13.3" widescreen.... So screen size wise, you're between the W5 (12) and W3 (14)...... so size is important. Those sony's have dedicated graphics which put it more in the comparison of the W3... I'm looking at their site and I see only the s360 (and that is an 855 chipset model.. ati 9700).. I don't know if the s380 you're talking about is a sonoma model.. but thats important price wise.. also Asus' units only come with XP pro.... xp home isn't the best for notebooks and i don't think it supports dvd writers (microsoft may have changed that though)
Also.. I would mention that any time a company gives a hard drive size and not speed.. it's always 4200rpm... The W5 has a 40gb/4200rpm.. but the W3 will have a 60gb/5400....

W5 features I can't see that the S360 has:

1.3mp digital camera
bluetooth
RF
sonoma based
xp pro
s-video out

There may be more, but it's been a long day and thats all I can spot... someone else can fill in the rest.

Again, I didn't look up the s380 model.... so what I said is only in reference to the s360...... but really... it's hard to compare when you start talking about different sizes with different stuff..... but I hope that helps a little.



Thanks,
Justin
PROPortable
www.proportable.com
[email protected]

 

What video is used on the W3? ETA?

Laptop: TBD
My Website: http://www.smilepak.com

 

ATI x600 - 64mb ... same as the V6..... again, atleast 3 weeks... but this thread is about the sony and finding out if this person shoudl compare it more to the W5 or W3.. or something else.

Thanks,
Justin
PROPortable
www.proportable.com
[email protected]

 

<blockquote id='quote'> quote:<hr height='1' noshade id='quote'>Originally posted by fullArmor

 

Lets put it this way..... in the spring of last year I took my w1 into the apple store to pick up my new ipod mini.... trust me the only reason i'd go anywhere near apple. I placed my w1 down next to the power books (unknowingly of course) and in about 10 minutes I was asked to leave (politely)... but I was drawing the attention of people in their store who were asking the manager if it was the next generation powerbook)....


Sony's are nice, I'm not saying they aren't... Asus thought they could build a more complete, better system than the systems they were building for other people... namely sony, apple... and for the most part I think they have done just that. The w3 is honestly going to be one heck of a collection of neat features, materials, size, performance, battery life.......

Thanks,
Justin
PROPortable
www.proportable.com
[email protected]

 

<blockquote id='quote'> quote:<hr height='1' noshade id='quote'>Originally posted by FiloD

 

<blockquote id='quote'> quote:<hr height='1' noshade id='quote'>Originally posted by PROPortable

 

I wouldn't bet on that unless Asus is building them for them in japan..... Sony is a Japanese company, so anything with their name on it Sony wants to be Japanese... Technically the last thing that is added to the system is legally aloud to be called the place of manufacter.... our custom notebooks can be considered made in the usa, because final assembly and testing is done here........ But the complete systems like the W3/W1/W5... those are made in Taiwan...

most everything in the world, notebook wise is all made in Taiwan no matter what anyone wants you to think.

Thanks,
Justin
PROPortable
www.proportable.com
[email protected]

 

No... the only thing ever released is Series numbers I think..... and that stuff can be researched if you dig deep enough. IF you dig deep enough you'll see that Dell contracts Asus for desktop motherboards...... but you can't trust a dell like you can an asus board... Aside from making them, they have to be built to the crappy configuration of the client....

They are an ODM.... they make what other people pay them to...

Thanks,
Justin
PROPortable
www.proportable.com
[email protected]

 

Hey, you would not have a list of Sony laptops made by Asus by any chance?
Always found Asus to be a pretty good company, especially as they make the Powerbooks.

 

The Asus W3v is sweet. Sony doesn't have a notebook that compares to the W3. It has the tech specs of a much larger notebook in a smaller, lighter form factor. From the pictures I have seen, it's look leaves nothing to be desired. Adjectives like sleek, sexy, executive, etc. best describe it. There is a 20+ page thread going about it now. It should be in the states sometime in April. Pro Portable is the first place to get their hands on them over here, so you should contact Justin if you interested (like almost all of us here).

I've been looking at notebooks extensively for several months now. I have not seen a better capable, stylish, thin and light notebook offered.

 

OK. I've read some threads on W3 and also found the it's page on ASUS site.

It is a damn colse match to S360! So close it's like twin!! But until it's final release, you never know! Too much rumors at the moment. I saw on ASUS's US page that it's still the old centrino + ATI m9700, and on the ASUS Taiwan page it has a Sonoma version but uses 915GM only, not like what you claimed a ATI X600. Also the 14" + 4lb combination just feels fishy to me. But if it is true, I'd no doubt get myself a W3 immediately!

 

Thank you all for the helpful feedbacks!

PROProtable:
You got me there. I guess I was somehow instilled with the impression that SONY is of higher quality brand than ASUS. It seems that you (and some others here) didn't know much about this S380. Well, I don't blame you 'cause this is a ASUS forum afterall, and I couldn't find anything on the "W3" that people talk about so often from ASUS's page either, LOL!

S380 is a fully customizable unit. Though bearing the same 300 name as S360 which is still the old Centrino spec, the S380 is 100% Sonoma + GeForce 6200 graphic chip, and this is the basis that I put it in comparison to ASUS W5. Both are Sonoma and both weight in about the same range (IMO screen size 12" and above are all acceptable to me, the limiting factor is the overall weight.) Here's the link to S380's customization page: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_CTO-Start?ProductSKU=L05SP1NB-A&catname=cpu_VAIONotebookComputers_SSeries

As you can see, S380 is capable of:
*CPU up to Pentium M 2.13MHz @ 533MHz
*Wirelss a/b/g + Bluetooth
*WinXP Pro SP2
*DVD+-RW
*up to 100GB hdd
*up to 2GB DDR2 @ 400MHz

I'm well aware of that W5 has a high-res camera but its not a necessity to me, besides SONY had a TR series (now discontinued) with camera too. If I really need one I would have gone for a TR then. The S-video output is a nice touch but that feature has low priority on my requirment list.

Go play with that S380's customization page and try configure one with similar spec to W5, and you'll see the price falls in about the same range. But with S380's longer battery life and Nvidia GeForce 6200, I wonder if there's any reason left for one to buy a W5? And that's the main debate I'd like to hear some opinions.

BTW, please do point me to somewhere I can find info on ASUS W3 and/or W1. Thanks!



FiloD:
Your picture of the S380's GeForce 6200 is incomplete. Yes, 6200 only has 32MB dedicated vram, but it is capable of drawing upto another 96MB from the main ram if needed, which total to 128MB max. On the other hand looking at W5's Intel 915GM, you have 0 dedicated vram and what's the max shared ram? 64 or 128MB? Think of it this way, at least with 6200 you get 32MB discrete and with 915GM you get nil! Not to mention that 6200 is already far more powerfull than 915GM!



Michael1980:
I'm pretty sure that all ASUS notebooks are built in Taiwan 'casue ASUS is a Taiwan brand. But not too sure about Vaio though. I'd assume that all North America models have their assemblies done in US, but the actual creation/development are all in Japan. For instance, in Japan the first Sonoma S-series model (S92) was introduced in late 2004, few months later it was brought over to North America and changed name to S380.

 

Sony 380 (aka s3xp here) is the follower to s360 (aka s2xp here), it's a sonoma pentium m 2.0 with 1 gb ddr2 3200, 80 gb SATA 5400rpm hdd, 2nd generation 13.3 xblack, most body of alloy and wheighting only 1,8 kg, Asus as nothing close it, the w5 is nothing close in specs and even w3v (who i think has the best specs, correct me if i am wrong proportable) has much more weight (btw both asus comes in europe with 4200 rpm hdds by default). s380 is already being called the best nb in the world, the only flaw to gamers is geforce 6200 turbo cache as the battery no more lasts 6/7 hours like s360, now only 4.

By the way the powerbooks and some vaios (dunno which) are assembled (not built) by the ECS (EliteGroup) who was bought by Asus in 2004, even if it was Asus last 10 yrs ago so I dunno why you say Asus have been building these babies, it's like saying a Ferrari is a Fiat because the last actually owns the first. Everybody is justifying taiwanese average build quality with the fact that they assemble well known brands notebooks. Anyway, in my opinion, Asus has evolved and is as good as the better in everything, except lcds mounted in their notebooks.

Dunno who does the assembly of Sony S but does that cares? What is assembled is what is important right? And EVERY review you find in the whole internet says w3 and w5 lcds are no match for the 13.3 xblack and just that is already a very important point for decision.

Anyway, in europe the s3xp is somewhat like 300 eur more than the 2.0 w5a.

 

thats true....... I mean basically.... if you hold and use a sony and do the same to an asus or a powerbook... they aren't all going to feel the same, and when you go to different models from all the companies... they don't all feel the same...... but a good review that compares all is really what pepole want to see..

Personally, I think there is a big conspiracy and there is only 1 giant computer maker and that bill gates is the puppet master...... but who cares what I think, lol...

Want to talk about how Intel makes a 2.1ghz pentium-m for under $8 and makes like 10,000% profit? ... just kidding.. thats for another thread

Thanks,
Justin
PROPortable
www.proportable.com
[email protected]

 

the ODM story that just 4 or 5 taiwanese corps produce everything is mostly, in my opinion, a story for people who buy no brand notebooks justify their choice because yes they build 90% of the notebooks in the world but wrong they not have all the same quality, you have justified this point of view in other threads, saying that the asus barebones do not have the same quality as the notebooks with the asus logo in what is most important in percepted built quality, the notebook case (just an example).

A simple quiz to people who do not agree, Quanta have built/assembled 10 million notebooks last year, do you think all have the IBM Thinkpad quality?

 

Oh heck... there are actually what 5 major ones or so..... I think there are 8 ODM's on a whole that create the worlds notebooks...

There was actually a useful post about that over at www.notebookforums.com plus you can look it up.

Now, on the other hand, you can look at first tier and second tier notebook companies....... thats a totally different story.... apple, dell, hp, ibm, sony, and so on are at the top... Asus is what, second tier or something? A side from the branded Asus models in the US...... there is really no brand who sells a notebook that they make themselves.... in the US this is. Worldwide I believe quanta and compal and so forth may sell their own branded systems.. but in the US they have non compete contracts with the companies they build for.


Also, Asus buying ECS.. it's not like fiat acquiring ferrari. They are still seperate entities..... thats not exactly what we're talking about with the computer companies.

I guess my last point is..... the brand name computer companies basically go shopping like you do...... go to a big trade show. The ODM's show off their new ideas and you get a comapany that then goes to an ODM... we want this line from you... you build them for us and no one else can have this line........ they go done the row and this other line looks good to them.... and they do the same thing... some things are modified for the use of that company.. like maybe a lid has to look a certain way --- like the vaio name... or whatever.... just so there is continuity between the models.

Look at it this way.... I'm going to use sony as an example..... You have the T, S, FS, B, K, and A series... notice how they all look very different from one another? Basically.. they could have 6 different ODM's doing those notebooks. I know they don't... but thats the way this stuff works, no matter how you want to look at it. I mean a lot of times this stuff goes out to bid and the K series one year goes to Asus, and when that contracts done, the next line of K series notebooks goes to someone else. This isn't bs, it's a fact of life. You can think what you want, but this consolidation is one of the reasons computers have gotten so cheap in many ways...

But the point is asus actually builds all of their notebooks.

The Asus S5 and the barebone S5 are the same machine. I know thats not what you're getting at...... but all of the barebone notebooks in the US are the same as the Asus branded models in europe and asia.

In the US, Asus doesn't really want to cover warranties and they don't want to be in the custom configuring business...... so in the US, only a select few of their best notebooks will be branded in their name. I don't know if you read my comparison, but this year..... they are going to do some barebones of like the W1, V6, etc...... in that situation, yes the quality will be different....... For instance... I called this like the comparison between Lexus and Toyota (and if you want to tell me Lexus makes their own cars I think the conversation will be over). ... but.. here you go

On Asus' unit, you'll have the higher level of detail.. aluminum carbon fiber... the glaretype screen.... bluetooth... etc..

On the barebone.... its going to be the same design system....... but instead of aluminum and carbon fiber... you might just havea composite of some sort..... most likely a regular type screen..... and probably no bluetooth.

This isn't because the quality is different but they are the same price.. it's because they are making that particular unit for someone who wants the design notebook.. but don't "need" all that extra stuff... but would like it cheaper.. Like The W1 would sell better than maybe any other similiar system... but it might be more expensive.... If you lose the aluminum and some other things... it would still be an attractive unit... but could be a lot cheaper. So, it's more about having a more comparable system that people will buy.....

Like someone said, the sony systems that are carbonfiber cost a lot more... the M3/M6/M5/W1/S5/V6/W5/W3 all use either all carbonfiber, or CF and aluminum..... you're not paying some huge fourtune for that. In a similar manner..... a notebook like the Z9 series... or the Z7 series.... they aren't carbon fiber... it's still a good computer, but it's not as good as the rest of them. The Z71v is an awesomely configured system which is cheap. It's going to be a great seller..... if it were all carbon fiber and aluminum, the notebook would be $400 more, atleast.. and then it wouldn't be that great of a seller. But, since most people don't know what the heck carbon fiber does for you....... aside from costing a fourtune and lightening up the notebook and making it stronger.... all they see is the bottom line. Even magazine reviews do a horrible job at explaining carbonfiber. If you look on our news page you can read out M5 and m6 review in laptop magazine.. they mention the sturdiness of the systems and lightness of the systems... and mention carbon fiber.. but they don't go and see carbon fiber costs a heck of a lot more and on a whole... it's making it lighter and stronger because it's made of carbon fiber... it's what the material is doing.... You know what I mean? Like they think.. ok the notebook is strong........ this notebook isn't.... but most people don't have a clue it's becasue... this one is plastic.. this is magnesium.. this is aluminum... this is carbon fiber. If they knew that.. you could post what the notebook was made out of and it would be a selling point because someone would know that a carbon fiber notebook makes it stronger and lighter and a plastic notebook is going to fall apart in 2-3 years......

sorry for the rant..... I'm running on 4 hours sleep and I'm in the office at almost 10pm... agian...... I'm going home... have a good weekend everyone.

Thanks,
Justin
PROPortable
www.proportable.com
[email protected]

 

I too like that ODM talking.
Sony computers are designed by SONY and are manufactured by someone who has dedidacted fabs, just like ASUS or QUANTA. It is cheaper for SONY to outsource some work as they are not going to open up a fab just for VAIOS.
Some brands sell the same laptop with a different name and casing. Acer for example sold some COMPAL notebooks with another casing, but that is a different thing.
Anyway, they always have their quality requirements, and they defer from brand to brand, even if they all get manufactured by the same fab.
It is just like SAMTRON. SAMTRON is manufactured by SAMSUNG, on the same fabs. DO they have the same quality or features? No.

 

They don't go shopping a new line of notebooks the ODM designs and sell with their own brands, they do like rjtd said they design and contract someone to assemble/build it. Just like Apple did with ECS to assemble the powerbooks, remember that powerbooks already have been assembled by Quanta and the materials/design is the same.

 

No, you're half right.... most mostly wrong. It's called a trade secret...... but it's not that much of a secret that the design for the W1 was originally a prototype presented as a possible next generation powerbook. The next generation design of the powerbook was supposed to come more than a year ago... but we still haven't seen a new design yet... word has it that Asus decided to say heck with apple and work a pc mobo into the unit. Asus is the company winning all the design awards....... why is that?

Thanks,
Justin
PROPortable
www.proportable.com
[email protected]

 

<blockquote id='quote'> quote:<hr height='1' noshade id='quote'>Originally posted by PROPortable

 

No, you really don't have a clue. Companies contract this stuff out buddy... I think you're living in a fantasy world.

Thanks,
Justin
PROPortable
www.proportable.com
[email protected]

 

Nevermind... I finally found another store that kept links to many of the stories...... maybe you can chew on this for a while:

http://store.agearnotebooks.com/asusnotebook.html

Thanks,
Justin
PROPortable
www.proportable.com
[email protected]

 

Kev,

Thats good - but thats also 4-5 years old. I think you can do a google and find an update article.... I rememeber seeing that posted around the same time we started to import Asus' notebooks... That isn't the article of course... but 90% of it is straight from it.. they added their model names into it.

Certain things have changed.... but for the sake of this guys argument, we should find him the tech new releases on Asus building for sony and apple...... [ ]

Thanks,
Justin
PROPortable
www.proportable.com
[email protected]

 

Here is an article written by powernotebooks.com on ODM

What is a "Name Brand" laptop?

---

Let's talk about the concept of 'Name Brand' as it applies to laptop computers.
Virtually none of the "Name" brands manufacture their own laptops, with the only exceptions being Asus, Twinhead and Apple, and even Twinhead and Apple do not make all of their own.

All of the rest buy their laptops from what is called an Original Design Manufacturer (ODM). These ODMs sell their computers to several different OEMs who then install the Hard Drive (usually an Hitachi or Toshiba), Processor and System Memory. They then put their label on it and market it.


For example:

An ODM named Clevo makes the Sager NP5690 and the original Alienware Area 51-M, the Voodoo MClass M550, the Hypersonic Aviator GX6, and they are all the same computer. Clevo also makes the Sager NP8790, the Falcon Northwest Fragbook DL, and the Voodoo Envy M:780, and they are also the same computer.

Of course the Sager models have a much sweeter price tag!

An ODM named Compal makes some of the DELL, Hewlett Packard and Compaq line of laptops, as well as the PowerPro M 5:6, PowerPro M 5:14, and the PowerPro M 6:33.


Asus, famous worldwide for their top quality motherboards and other components, also makes their own laptops, and the PowerPro C 3:17 and the PowerPro C 3:12.

The Dell Latitude and the Sony Vaio are made by Quanta, who also makes many of the IBM laptops, and the now-discontinued PowerPro C 3:16. Quanta is well known as the best and highest quality laptop ODM in the world.

The Micron Transport Treck and Treck 2 are made by GVC. Compaq is actually manufactured by companies called Inventec (Armada and Prosignia lines) and Arima (Presario line).

Other ODM names are Mitac, FIC, and Uniwill, among others. Not exactly what you would call "Name" brands, and yet it is their laptops that end up with the "Name" brands on them.

Sager and Pro-Star Computers are made by Clevo. Clevo is one of the largest, and best, in the world.

Well, you get the idea.

Some call this the "Dirty little secret of the Laptop Industry".

---

Laptop: TBD
My Website: http://www.smilepak.com

 

Yeah, I'm not saying that every single computer in the world is designed by a handful of people.

Just like um... well if I can use my alter ego here..... in an architecture office you may offer design services... maybe even design build..... maybe cookie cutter designs that are ready to go... That is exactly what ODM's offer.... ok, Original Design and Manufacterer... Do you see Sony as an ODM? Apple?

It's not to say that they can't go and say, for this model, we've got a great idea and we want you to work with this and come up with something..... But often, there are systems that the companies will buy the rights too and then with a certain run....... they want the lid made this way, of this matterial used... or this color..... ala alienware.

Apple may have designed the current powerbooks..... big deal.. they are three almost identical units of different sizes.... It's not to say they don't hire outside firms for design contests and so on. It's exactly what happens and if it's a contracted thing, Apple or whoever would "own" that design. It's just like anything else... you've got design, build, market, service...... To make things better and cheaper..... you have the design experts, or the design build experts, and the marketing experts (ala apple, sony), and the service experts....... If we want to go to that level, do you think that every company who outsources their customer service has dedicated offices in India? There are huge companies and you can have a dell number go to one guy and that same guys next phone call is from a sony caller.... their systems tell them which company the person is calling from and they take care of it from there........ It's all a big act to make things more efficent, and to lower costs..

Thanks,
Justin
PROPortable
www.proportable.com
[email protected]

 

<blockquote id='quote'> quote:<hr height='1' noshade id='quote'>Originally posted by rjtd

 

Are we going on circles? The same factory assembles Seat Leon, VW Golf and Audi A3, and even if in the car world they now just speak of "share components" the 3 have different quality. An ODM assembles 6 brands but they provide different components i'm pretty sure, Acer does not wants their laptops to have the same ODM cost as Sony.

The ODM story serve people who want to sell Clevos as if they had Thinkpad quality.

I repeat, an Asus sailesman already wrote in this forum:

the asus barebones do not have the same quality as asus brand notebooks

... and they are built in the same factory so why keep this nonsense that everything is the same...

 

Well, there is still something I can't understand.
If, like ProP said, 1st tier brands just go to seeking for a notebook from a ODM and them ask them to put his brand over it, why the heck no ODM sells notebooks with X-Black on them?
If sony does not design anything, and only buy one or another model and brand it, why the heck there are technologies that only sony has?
(Take SONY as an example)

 

i guess Triniton was bought from a taiwanese ODM too, Sony are just a bunch of money who buy some of the fine and most advanced electronics, the robot dog AIBO is just a special assemble of a tawainese Tomogochi

Come on Pro, Asus is becoming a big brand, do you need to buy this crap story to sell more Asus?

 

Oh get over it.

Sony certainly designed Trinitron, but they didn't make LCD panels when that fad started.... they still don't, look it up. Sony makes LCD monitors and TVs, but they don't make the panels like they DID make the Trinitron tubes. That got them recognition, but they aren't making the panels.

About the AIBO - damn, I hope they designed, built, thought of the whole thing themselves...... that is the type of stuff companies like Sony have to come up with on their own to keep themselves fresh.... it's not notebooks or lcd monitors..

I'm on a Sony 23" widescreen Desktop LCD..... awesome monitor.. better than Apple's cinema series and looks just as hot.... but neither make the LCD panel..... My Sony has a Samsung panel and it's hands down the best desktop screen I've ever seen. From what I've heard, the Apple screen is Samsung too, but it's an older model.... the new Cinema series thats coming out has the same thing I have it.

But pt, seriously..... Asus is a GD ODM, period. They have their own brand and as a whole they don't want anyone to know more than they just make the best motherboards and graphics cards on the face of the earth. The whole reason they got into notebooks and pocket pcs is becasue they thought they could make better systems than they were being contracted to make. Thats the point, know what I'm saying? I don't want anyone to buy an Asus laptop "because they make this model for apple and this model for sony, or this for HP, or this for sharp"..... I think Asus' units can stand on their own two feet.... but the technology isn't much different... People will buy apples (because their snobs, lol) but for the people who aren't buying an apple because it's "in" or because they love the Mac OS... are buying it for design and quality.... Those people are the ones who are noticing Asus' units and falling for them. Asus just needs to be noticed and heck.. it's why this is an Asus thread.. this has seemed like it should be in the sony forum for the get go.

happy easter to all.

Thanks,
Justin
PROPortable
www.proportable.com
[email protected]