W7J - Memory Inquiry

About to purchase the following laptop.


However, one thing that is holding me back is the maximum ram you can have is 512 + 1GB = 1.5GB.

Just wondering, would this laptop support 2.5GB, provided you can obtain a 2GB ram stick in the future?

 

And the wheel goes round and round...

~ Brett

 

Im sorry boss, but I have read those threads already.

No one can positively confirm if it can support more than 1.5GB.



...round and round, round and round, round and round...

 

IMHO the 512MB or RAM that's soldered on the motherboard of the W7J is a big mistake. If you add another 512MB of RAM then the memory controler will go into dual channel mode and you'll get the maximum amount of memory bandwidth possible. But any other RAM combination will mean that both banks of memory will be operating in single channel mode and the performance of the W7J will suffer when you're running multiple programs.

If you need more than 1 GB of RAM then odds are you also need a laptop that is performing at its peak -so if I were you I wouldn't even be looking at the W7J...

 

I just want a laptop that isnt heavy, has a dedicated card with atleast 128MB, and can have 2GB. No need a machine for gaming, just to run Vista Premium without any sluggishness. Oh, all gaming goes to console.

 

Actually, Intel 945/965/975 chipset family features "Flex Memory Technology" which allows dual channel operations even when under mismatched timings and module size. Therefore, it will operate in dual channel mode even with 1.5GB (soldered on 512MB + 1GB SO-DIMM module) at 533MHz (as that's the speed of the soldered 512MB chips). However, since dual channel mode works by interleveing the data onto even number of modules to boost read and write speeds, if your program is accessing/addressing past the initial 512MB set, memory performance will degrade to singal channel performance (i.e. the benefit of Intel's asymmetric dual channel mode will only "last" the first 1GB).

Also, technically the 945PM chipset supports 256Mbit, 512Mbit and 1Gbit x8 or x16 densities, therefore, it shouldn't have any problems supporting 2GB SO-DIMM (16 x 1Gbit chips) modules once they drop down in price (they are currently found at US$350-US$400 each). So, the ASUS W7J should support 2.5GB of memory.

You can find all these information directly from Intel's datasheet on their mobile 945 chipset family (in .pdf format).


However, I still don't understand why ASUS decide to impletement such an inferior setup. Some argue that they do that in order to save space to pack all the features into such a small form factor. I disagree, however. The Dell XPS M1210 and SONY SZ series are about the same thickness, weight and size with the same specs and features, yet they manage to find space for 2 proper SO-DIMM modules.

Even with the assumed 2.5GB of memory support in the W7J, in 2-3 years time when Vista pretty much becomes the dominating OS in the marketplace, you'll be wanting more as you run 64-bit OS/Apps. The Dell and SONY can go all the way to 4GB Dual Channel 667MHz. Even now, Microsoft and many sites have already expressed that the "real" recommendation is for 2GB of memory as standard for Vista Premium. This is in line with Microsoft's past OS releases, where back in the days of Windows 95, they recommended 8MB but 16MB is where the sweetspot is. Windows 98 16MB but 32MB is when things start buzzing. Windows 2000 128MB but 256MB+ speeded things up a lot, and Windows XP's 256MB but everyone went for 512MB as the ideal minimum (and 1GB is common even on entry-level machines nowadays as the OS matures and more "bloatware" is loaded at startup). So, double Vista's 1GB "Microsoft's recommendation" to 2GB "real-world recommendation", and you'll definately want to go to 4GB as the OS matures and memory prices falls (just like the trend with current XP-era machines).

I also disagree with the argument that "by the time you feel the need for more memory (than what's supported now), you'll have bought a new machine". Most often the useful working life of a machine can be easily remedied by adding more memory. I have a bunch of older Intel 440ZX chipset motherboards which would be perfectly fine running Windows XP performing light office tasks and internet browsing duties (it was released during the Windows Me/2000 period), if not for the fact that Intel artifically capped the memory support to 256MB. Similar-classed chipset boards have no problems and many paired with late generation Pentium IIIs or Coppermine Celeron CPUs with 512MB-1GB (as they have no artifical memory limit) runs XP quite well even today.

I started off with 256MB in my desktop when XP first came out 5 years ago, but upgraded to 512MB quickly and again to 1GB. Even today, Photoshop, Google Earth, video encoding, and the increasing amount of little programs and background tasks (IM/Chat programs, downloading tasks (e.g. Azureus)) can utilize memory quickly under XP and most power-users/enthusists configure 2GB for their new machines today. I can only imagine the trend for Vista and incoming Vista-native applications be the same. Sure, 1GB or even 2GB will be fine to start with, but just like XP, you'll want more as the OS and applications mature. I see the ASUS W7J facing these problems with its memory configuration.

The W7J is a good machine, no doubt about it. However, the odd memory configuration is one of the cons that turned me away from it (and the fact that the Ensemble version only comes with a slow C2D T5500 CPU, and if you were to customize it with faster CPUs, you lose the official ASUS global warranty which is a no-go for me as I travel a lot and need the assurance of the international warranty).

 

many programs should tell you this.

The most recent one I looked at was actually 3dmark o6

on system, hit details. for instance here is my a8js.


Memory Array 1/1
Max Module Capacity 4 MB
Location System Board
Use System
Supported Speeds -
Supported Types -
Supported Voltages -

Memory Slot 1/2
Installed Enabled Size 1.00 GB
Form Factor DIMM
Frequency 0.0 Hz
Slot DIMM0 [BANK0]
Manufacturer Manufacturer0
Type SDRAM
Type Details Synchronous
Enabled Size 1.00 GB
Total Bit Width 64 b
Data Bit Width 64 b
Memory Slot 2/2
Installed Enabled Size 1.00 GB
Form Factor DIMM
Frequency 0.0 Hz
Slot DIMM1 [BANK1]
Manufacturer Manufacturer1
Type SDRAM
Type Details Synchronous
Enabled Size 1.00 GB
Total Bit Width 64 b
Data Bit Width 64 b


well heres the problem, it will probably tell you the same thing except you know its false.

However if it does tell you that, then the max memory is 2.5 gb

 

WE can go through this again, but only the people who don't read and understand why it's done will think it's a "big mistake"

Think about it this way....... given it's size and thickness - it's either have 512mb on board.... or no memory on board and still only one open dimm....... I'm not going to entertain that any more since I've ranted many times as to WHY it's done and not just made up fiction - but the fact of the matter

Now... will it eventually take a 2gb stick....... 99% of the information leads to yes..... if 2gb sticks come out in DDR2 677.... and the 945 chipset already is "capable" of 4gb total......... The ONLY holdup is the fact that a bios update may be needed (it was needed when 1gb sticks came out) - just to recognize it because no sticks were out to test the original bios...... and that's why the limit is shown at 1.5gb........ and for NO other reason.

A bios update was made for EVERY older notebook when 1gb sticks came out.... so I don't see this being much of an issue at all, but anyone who would give you that 100% guarentee would be an idiot...... but take that as you will.

 

And there you go... the same answers as before. As much as we would all like it, we still don't have any Asus engineers or designers here so there's no inside info.

~ Brett

 

.... lol, no matter how many times the question is asked - it'll be answered the same way

 

Sorry, I had to break this up into pieces. You are correct, having two completely different memory modules will allow for what Intel calls "Dual-channel Asymmetric Mode". But that doesn't mean that memory addresses are interleaved between the two modules. The memory controller uses the first DRAM module until it's full and then continues on to the second. Memory access will stall if a device needs to access main system RAM durring a refresh cycle.

Excellent document! Now read section 10.2.2.1 and 10.2.2.2 and you'll see that the only way you get true interleaving is with two memory modules that are the exact same capacity...

 

Thanks for the replies!!!

My head hurts...do I go for the W7J because of the 128 Dedicated VRAM or do I go for the Sony Vaio C Series laptop that has 64 Dedicated VRAM, and two DDR2 slots?

I just want the best preimum performance for Vista.

 

As I see it:

W7J:
VRAM: 128, 1.5GB (1 GB Sticks)

C150GP/B:
VRAM: 64, 2GB (1 GB Sticks)

 

check out a review in the dell forum on vista by someone with the xps 1210

it has a 64 mb 7400

 

Maybe a stupid question but can the soldered ram be taken off and solder on a new piece of ram? Besides voiding the warranty is it possible? Im just thinking down the road after my warranty runs out. I guess by that time I'll probably be able to buy a 6gig ram stick but Im still curious.
thanks

EDIT- sorry guys, for some reason I saw w3j- shoulda read more closely. Is it still the same idea tho?

 

I'm curious if you would be willing to move up to a slightly bigger screen size, like the A8js and W3j, since these notebooks basically offer alot between them both.

I remember several months ago when people were wondering if notebooks in general would support 4GB, we will have to wait and see for the BIOS update to allow it, but yes so far everything points to yes.

So have a look at both A8js and W3J if you find that these are not suitable for your needs, then we'll go back and compare W7J to SZ and M1210.

 

I have one big headache. Have now pulled the trigger to purchase the W3J with T2500. Will upgrade that to a T7200 when prices fall. Think this should handle Vista nicely until the next OS.